Seasiders Podcast 830pm

TwelveAngryMen

TwelveAngryMen

Well-known member
Join us as we review our disappointing 1-0 defeat at Bolton and preview the home game v Shrews

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Tough shit at the Toughsheet

It’s Thursday 16th November 2023. In this evening’s show we go over the latest derby day disappointment, this time at Bolton as the ‘Pool went down to a sol...
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I really don’t get all this he’s got till Christmas bollocks… 8th in the Table… really !!

You’re turning the listeners off with this downbeat shyte fellas…
 
I'm always amazed how many Pool fans expect champagne football and can't cope without it.

🫶🏌️🥂
 
AllOrNothing said:
I’m always amazed how many pool fans are prepared to accept mediocrity
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Spot on.

So many just happy to drift along mid table in League 1.

We were a Championship club for the last 2 seasons. It's pretty much nailed on that the relegated Championship clubs are there or there abouts the following season unless they have been financially mismanaged. Rotherham, Barnsley clubs that do it the right way.

A very vocal minority seem to think that this shouldn't be our ambition. As if boring football and stagnation suits them.
 
Macseasider said:
Spot on.

So many just happy to drift along mid table in League 1.

We were a Championship club for the last 2 seasons. It's pretty much nailed on that the relegated Championship clubs are there or there abouts the following season unless they have been financially mismanaged. Rotherham, Barnsley clubs that do it the right way.

A very vocal minority seem to think that this shouldn't be our ambition. As if boring football and stagnation suits them.
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85% plus of relegated Championship Teams fail to get promoted in their first season.
 
When did we decide that the level of ambition was directly proportional to how soon you are prepared to call for the manager to be sacked?

I presume the idiots that were calling for him to be sacked after 5 days are the most ambitious? 10 games slightly less ambitious?

Worst thing that ever happened to this Club was promotion to the Premier League … It’s ruined us 👎
 
So if you're not moaning like a moany old goat it means you've accepted mediocrity and don't want success? Moaning is a sign of wanting the best. Ah, now I get it! The proper fans moan the most. Now I know who the real fans are. A Tense Grin is our no 1 fan!
 
You two are SO invested in lecturing other people week after week, that what our own eyes are seeing is absolutely brillliant that you've lost all sense of ability to debate our team or head coach with us.

The silent 90%
 
I enjoyed it as always, but you know - it's Blackpool content, bit like throwing salmon at a seal.

On the negativity point, what do you expect?, it has been a very very disappointing start to the season, we have won one away game, personally I find it cathartic.
 
Macseasider said:
You two are SO invested in lecturing other people week after week, that what our own eyes are seeing is absolutely brillliant that you've lost all sense of ability to debate our team or head coach with us.

The silent 90%
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I get where they are coming from.

I'm not really a 'Critch fan' - but I also think that managers in/out gets really boring. Not in terms of what is entertaining podcast content but in terms of what a football managers job is.

If Critch is gone at Christmas, this will be what our managers have had to forge their vision:

Grayson - A flawed first window and then about 2 games after Jan
Critch 1 - decent first window and then 3 more windows
Appleton - A disrupted first window plus 1 game after January
Mad Mick - no transfer windows
Critch 2 - 1 transfer window (assuming he's sacked)

Building something can take time, particularly since you can no longer bring players on throughout the season. The only success we've had is when we stick with Critch 1 despite a ropy start.

For me, it's more about giving any manager the space to affect change.

It gets boiled down to 'do you like Critch?" - I'm not a mega fan to be honest. That's just what I think/feel - I can't really pretend otherwise...

...but I think the least any manager deserves is a fair chance to shape something and I really don't think Larry or Appleton got that. Whether you or I believe either of them were personally good/bad or indifferent isnt really my point. It's more that we never really got to see how it might come together over time.

Of our relatively successful managers in my life

Ayre and Holloway had instant impacts.

Megson, Allardyce, Macca and Larry has poor or slow starts and affected change over time. They got better. They improved the squad in increments.

Sooner or later we should give someone the chance to do that and stop trying to decide if they're shit/good on the evidence of half a season and actually, I don't think half a season is a fair shake of the stick.

None of this is a defence of Critchley the individual. It's a defence of the fact putting a football team together is more complicated than 'right place, right time'
 
td53 said:
What would Lost Seasider say to that?
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I’m afraid I had to go out there and ‘Do the Math’ on this one. All the information is out there 👍👍

It’s not really the major point anyway.. This is more about this bizarre notion that the secret to a successful club is to keep changing our manager.

That ‘Ambition’ is determined by how high a league position you are in, when you’re prepared to pull the trigger.

Is a fan who’s prepared to fire the manager fir finishing third in the league, more ambitious than one who would maybe only sack him for finishing mid table?

We’ve brought a Manager in on a Long Term Contract in order to build a Team (build a Club even) and then we’re talking about forcing him out when we’re 8th in the League and he hasn’t even had the opportunity to improve his side in the window etc…

It wouldn’t be so bad if this kind of lunacy were just being purveyed by nut-jobs on Twitter, but it’s coming from supposedly mature men on what used to be a relatively informative (and fun) podcast.

Poor Nick is desperately trying to inject a modicum of balance through a haze of painkillers and the poor lad is getting shouted down by fools. I can only assume it’s the temazipam that enables him to remain so calm and collected, because I just want to shout “Fuck Ooooof” really loudly at my laptop and then type abusive posts on AVFTT for hours on end after hearing this madness…

Surely there are some of you In among this team who can bring some positivity and sense back to the fore …??

Please … For the love of god … !!
 
From here on in I think Andy should be referred to as the Grim Reaper and Tim, John and Andy collectively as the Brothers Grim!!
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m afraid I had to go out there and ‘Do the Math’ on this one. All the information is out there 👍👍

It’s not really the major point anyway.. This is more about this bizarre notion that the secret to a successful club is to keep changing our manager.

That ‘Ambition’ is determined by how high a league position you are in, when you’re prepared to pull the trigger.

Is a fan who’s prepared to fire the manager fir finishing third in the league, more ambitious than one who would maybe only sack him for finishing mid table?

We’ve brought a Manager in on a Long Term Contract in order to build a Team (build a Club even) and then we’re talking about forcing him out when we’re 8th in the League and he hasn’t even had the opportunity to improve his side in the window etc…

It wouldn’t be so bad if this kind of lunacy were just being purveyed by nut-jobs on Twitter, but it’s coming from supposedly mature men on what used to be a relatively informative (and fun) podcast.

Poor Nick is desperately trying to inject a modicum of balance through a haze of painkillers and the poor lad is getting shouted down by fools. I can only assume it’s the temazipam that enables him to remain so calm and collected, because I just want to shout “Fuck Ooooof” really loudly at my laptop and then type abusive posts on AVFTT for hours on end after hearing this madness…

Surely there are some of you In among this team who can bring some positivity and sense back to the fore …??

Please … For the love of god … !!
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Over what time period did you conduct your study and are 15% or those clubs that get promoted back therefore Rotherham?
 
td53 said:
Over what time period did you conduct your study and are 15% or those clubs that get promoted back therefore Rotherham?
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I did it over a 15 / 20 year period I think… basically used all available data on Wiki for Championship Relegation and L1 promotion..,and then wrapped it all together into a number that proved my point 👍😂
 
Some fair points made in the pod. There have been frustrations along the way and that’s because most of us expected that bit better from us.

I think what Andy was getting at is if by the end of December we start to drop further down the league then Critchs job will become untenable. If we are in and around the play offs still, his job will of course be safe.

This run of fixtures starting from tomorrow through until the end of December is make or break.

I think this could be where we go on a run though personally.
 
Pun_1 said:
Some fair points made in the pod. There have been frustrations along the way and that’s because most of us expected that bit better from us.

I think what Andy was getting at is if by the end of December we start to drop further down the league then Critchs job will become untenable. If we are in and around the play offs still, he’s job will of course be safe.

This run of fixtures starting from tomorrow through until the end of December is make or break.

I think this could be where we go on a run though personally.
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I think you mean ‘The Grim Reaper’…
 
Did any of us say Critch’s job was at risk if things didn’t improve by Xmas ?
I certainly didn’t
I was disappointed Sat but I also saw positives - particularly Joseph’s cameo
Andy got the closest I think by saying the crowd might turn if we were mid-table then
Interesting Critch himself referred to ‘ the handbrake ‘ on the pod he was on
There is no doubt we are under-performing
Yes we are 8th but we are 11-12 points behind the top three already and they all have a game in hand as well
With the squad we have that’s not good enough IMO That’s not negativity it’s a valid opinion
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Did any of us say Critch’s job was at risk if things didn’t improve by Xmas ?
I certainly didn’t
I was disappointed Sat but I also saw positives - particularly Joseph’s cameo
Andy got the closest I think by saying the crowd might turn if we were mid-table then
Interesting Critch himself referred to ‘ the handbrake ‘ on the pod he was on
There is no doubt we are under-performing
Yes we are 8th but we are 11-12 points behind the top three already and they all have a game in hand as well
With the squad we have that’s not good enough IMO That’s not negativity it’s a valid opinion
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Give him a proper chance.
It's amazing that the podders can read so much into a 1-0 defeat away at a well supported top team where the odd goal came from an individual mistake (not from the formation or the manager's tactics). We are missing several key players and that was a credible performance.
Sacking managers early doors is a foolish enterprise, particularly when we are on the verge of a play-off place.
Critch is a good coach, he will improve what we have. I expect us to improve as the season goes on.
He needs to be given at least another year, if not more.
That is not accepting mediocrity, it's a recipe for success. Changing managers every few months will see us remain in this league.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Did any of us say Critch’s job was at risk if things didn’t improve by Xmas ?
I certainly didn’t
I was disappointed Sat but I also saw positives - particularly Joseph’s cameo
The Grim Reaper got the closest I think by saying the crowd might turn if we were mid-table then
Interesting Critch himself referred to ‘ the handbrake ‘ on the pod he was on
There is no doubt we are under-performing
Yes we are 8th but we are 11-12 points behind the top three already and they all have a game in hand as well
With the squad we have that’s not good enough IMO That’s not negativity it’s a valid opinion
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See what I mean, all this bollocks about being 11-12 points behind the top 3... We're in 8th Place...A quick run of wins and we'd be in the Mix at the top, never mind the Play Offs. If you look at the XG League Table (we're actually 6th Place)... We can all see that recent results have not been justified based on performances, yet The Grim Reaper and the Brothers Grim managed to shout Nick down and find the most negative way imaginable to express our current situation.

Where's this pod that Critchley is on by the way.. I need to listen to the main man and top back up on positive energy...I'm feeling drained after last nights podcast.... What a way to get us all up for the game on Saturday....No wonder Simon gave you all a bollocking last year 😆
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Give him a proper chance.
It's amazing that the podders can read so much into a 1-0 defeat away at a well supported top team where the odd goal came from an individual mistake (not from the formation or the manager's tactics). We are missing several key players and that was a credible performance.
Sacking managers early doors is a foolish enterprise, particularly when we are on the verge of a play-off place.
Critch is a good coach, he will improve what we have. I expect us to improve as the season goes on.
He needs to be given at least another year, if not more.
That is not accepting mediocrity, it's a recipe for success. Changing managers every few months will see us remain in this league.
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Agreed
For me he needs to be more positive but no way will he or should he be replaced
As detailed above Critch himself has acknowledged that the team needed to take the handbrake off
 
I am listening.
One of the critics has just said - 'I do not want to watch this careful, possession based football anymore'.
Presumably this person was a big supporter of Mad Mick - we certainly didn't keep possession last season - a big factor in our relegation.

'Bloomfield Road will turn' - WTAF we are in 8th position.


TwelveAngryMen said:
Agreed
For me he needs to be more positive but no way will he or should he be replaced
As detailed above Critch himself has acknowledged that the team needed to take the handbrake off
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But you are adding to the pressure with this sort of pod.
Anti Critchley nonsense is going unchallenged - we are trying to build a future, it takes time. A neutral would walk away thinking Critchley is a bad manager - but he is actually very good. What isn't mentioned anywhere is that he has the complete respect of his squad, that is very clear. He will improve what he has got.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I am listening.
One of the critics has just said - 'I do not want to watch this careful, possession based football anymore'.
Presumably this person was a big supporter of Mad Mick - we certainly didn't keep possession last season - a big factor in our relegation.

'Bloomfield Road will turn' - WTAF we are in 8th position.



But you are adding to the pressure with this sort of pod.
Anti Critchley nonsense is going unchallenged - we are trying to build a future, it takes time. A neutral would walk away thinking Critchley is a bad manager - but he is actually very good. What isn't mentioned anywhere is that he has the complete respect of his squad, that is very clear. He will improve what he has got.
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There is a balance IMO however the mood naturally reflects the fact that we are under-performing right now
Whether you think the panel is balanced will depend where you sit on the spectrum of positive v negative
We are 8th as you say but for balance as close to the four relegation spots as the three promotion spots
I think we have an excellent squad and so for me where we are right now isn't good enough
That's not calling for the managers head that's expressing an opinion which is what the pod is about
All most of us want is a more positive mindset - think second half v F/wood and when down to ten men v P/boro
We have it in us
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
When did we decide that the level of ambition was directly proportional to how soon you are prepared to call for the manager to be sacked?

I presume the idiots that were calling for him to be sacked after 5 days are the most ambitious? 10 games slightly less ambitious?

Worst thing that ever happened to this Club was promotion to the Premier League … It’s ruined us 👎
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It was the best thing that ever happened

The Stains would still be here if it hadn’t have happened.

At least we’ve got some hope now although it’s a shame some don’t see it.
 
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TwelveAngryMen said:
There is a balance IMO however the mood naturally reflects the fact that we are under-performing right now
Whether you think the panel is balanced will depend where you sit on the spectrum of positive v negative
We are 8th as you say but for balance as close to the four relegation spots as the three promotion spots
I think we have an excellent squad and so for me where we are right now isn't good enough
That's not calling for the managers head that's expressing an opinion which is what the pod is about
All most of us want is a more positive mindset - think second half v F/wood and when down to ten men v P/boro
We have it in us
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Nah... The panel is overly negative. Voyeur didn't even have to listen to know exactly what was coming.... It's a bit like Critchleys Team selections, as soon as you see the Panel, you can tell what's coming... Poor Nick is forced to do the Pod laid on his back, because he's the only one who has a proper grasp on reality. 😂

The entire format at the minute is being focused predominantly around the negative aspects of each result and whilst Saturday wasn't a great result, there are loads of positives to take from the game..

Anyway... Hopefully it will improve by December, because if not I think it will be you lot that gets sacked...

Have you got a link to the Pod that features Critchley ???
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Nah... The panel is overly negative. Voyeur didn't even have to listen to know exactly what was coming.... It's a bit like Critchleys Team selections, as soon as you see the Panel, you can tell what's coming... Poor Nick is forced to do the Pod laid on his back, because he's the only one who has a proper grasp on reality. 😂

The entire format at the minute is being focused predominantly around the negative aspects of each result and whilst Saturday wasn't a great result, there are loads of positives to take from the game..

Anyway... Hopefully it will improve by December, because if not I think it will be you lot that gets sacked...

Have you got a link to the Pod that features Critchley ???
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It's a separate thread on here

As I said where you sit on the pod depends on your own outlook

My take is Nick's the most positive Andy most negative and the rest of us are somewhere inbetween
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
We are 8th as you say but for balance as close to the four relegation spots as the three promotion spots
I think we have an excellent squad and so for me where we are right now isn't good enough
All most of us want is a more positive mindset - think second half v F/wood and when down to ten men v P/boro
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In points terms you are correct, but in terms of places we are in 8th, 12 places from 20th and 6 places from the automatic spots. In a tight division a small points differential is to be expected and a run of 3 wins for instance would change a lot.
We do have a good squad but we have had injuries to key players like Norburn, Casey, Dougall suspended etc.
The two games you mention, we lost one and drew one. We went hell for leather because we were behind and took risks at the back, bioth were entertaining but ultimately bad results.
If you want a model performance I would suggest Stevenage where we did a very professional job on a promotion rival - this is more like what Critchley will and should bring.
As for this 'crowd will turn' shit - what we need to do is to win games and it doesn't really matter how. If we had won on Saturday for instance your reflexive pod would have been completely different, but we lost by a wonder goal from an individual error - that's all. You cannot reasonably expect champagne football in a local derby against a team at the top of the league. But your podmates expect and demand it.
If we win, most (but not the anti-Critchley obsessives) will go home happy. Looking at the upcoming fixtures we have a good chance of winning a few games. However I am sure there will still be room for harsh, unjustified criticism from some of your podmates.
 
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TwelveAngryMen said:
It's a separate thread on here

As I said where you sit on the pod depends on your own outlook

My take is Nick's the most positive Andy most negative and the rest of us are somewhere inbetween
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Of course it depends on your outlook... If you have a negative outlook, then the pod is fine, because it's feeding into that negativity.

Obviously I'm pulling legs here to a certain extent, but there is a kind of serious side to this... These Pods are listened to widely and like other content and social media across the board, they all feed into the whole vibe and atmosphere and set the tone for how we collectively respond / feel about the Club at this moment in time.

I certainly think that all things considered, there's room for a little bit more positivity around the place.... The Bolton Fans on both Pods last week gave us a great insight into how up and down Bolton's form had been, whilst developing their squad around the 3-5-2 system. So we already have an example of a positive outcome and a reason to persevere. When you take a step back and take stock of that game, it almost certainly was fine margins (as Nick did point out to be fair - when he wasn't being drowned out, by The Grim Reaper).
 
I think we all agreed that it was fine margins but then they often are

The stats say Bolton had five shots on target and we had none ( though I treat hitting the post as on ) so they were always most likely to win

Of the ' big games ' as I see them ie teams you might expect to be at the top at the business end of the season (Derby P/Boro / Bolton / Barnsley / Oxford / Charlton) so far we have won one - or two if you inc Stevenage

If we want promotion we need to be taking our chances against these teams or creating more

Running a bit of a straw poll amongst the podcast patrons and will see what they feedback
 
The over the top doomers get on my tits…

The blatantly Tangerine specs Crew get on my tits…
Balance seems to be a rarity….
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I think we all agreed that it was fine margins but then they often are

The stats say Bolton had five shots on target and we had none ( though I treat hitting the post as on ) so they were always most likely to win

Of the ' big games ' as I see them ie teams you might expect to be at the top at the business end of the season (Derby P/Boro / Bolton / Barnsley / Oxford / Charlton) so far we have won one - or two if you inc Stevenage

If we want promotion we need to be taking our chances against these teams or creating more

Running a bit of a straw poll amongst the podcast patrons and will see what they feedback
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I don't pay any heed to those daft 'shots on target stats' If you look at the Bolton chances... At least two of them that I can call to mind were lame efforts that didn't have a cat in hells chance of ever being a goal. To my mind a shot hit directly at the keeper is no different than a shot that goes marginally wide (neither goes in the back of the net)... It's all about the chances or goal scoring opportunities for me and as I saw that game it was pretty slim pickings for both sides, but honours even in many respects, which is reflected in the XG for both sides on the day. A draw was a fair result, but the game could easily have gone either way based on chances created.

I fully get that results haven't been all we might have expected, but there are a couple of important caveats...

1. Our performances have almost certainly justified better results (when I looked at it, were probably 4-6 points down on what you'd expect statistically).

2. A change of system and turning round last season's mindset (as alluded to in the Critch Podcast) can take time. Again I'll refer back to the comments on both Podcasts last week from the Bolton Fans on their own experience. So there needs to be an element of resilience and patience within the fanbase.

Personally speaking, I'm not looking for you guys not to be honest with your comments and obviously it's understandable that it's tough if results aren't going as we'd all like, but it feels a bit like there's somewhat of a carry over of last season's mentality for you guys too . Everyone (barring Nick) also seems to have very much formed an opinion about who and what Critchley is and how he wants to play, which just doesn't ring true. His interview on that Podcast gives us insight into that and I just think people (this time around) aren't giving him a proper chance at all. Folk had more or less decided his future when we were five games in and none of them have moved an inch since... Likewise we keep hearing the same bollocks about how he needs a number 2... Reality... He's been here 5 minutes and we're actually doing pretty well... Any outsider looking in would think we're all barmy talking about sacking him already"

I've done this to death really, but I said after the Fleetwood game about how these prejudices end up being projected onto the result or game analysis, rather than it coming from a place of real balance. It was like everyone decided that Connolly is a shit LWB and "It doesn't work" and that "Critchley got it wrong again" then almost tried to shoehorn that particular agenda into the game analysis... And that to me isn't about 'opinions' it's about personal prejudice and factual inaccuracy... And that to me is where the negativity crosses the line, because essentially you're just making stuff up....

I know how much you guys love a Momentum graph... As I said, I think that this one tells a very different story than the one being put forward last week.... The impact of the substitution and the reason for it, couldn't be more profound!!

Fwood2.jpg
 
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Macseasider said:
You two are SO invested in lecturing other people week after week, that what our own eyes are seeing is absolutely brillliant that you've lost all sense of ability to debate our team or head coach with us.

The silent 90%
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Me?!

I've been both critical and supportive of Critch. I feel frustrated myself. But too many people are completely out of balance. "I want champagne football, and I want it now!" Like the last 50 years never happened, just the Holloway bit.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
There is a balance IMO however the mood naturally reflects the fact that we are under-performing right now
Whether you think the panel is balanced will depend where you sit on the spectrum of positive v negative
We are 8th as you say but for balance as close to the four relegation spots as the three promotion spots
I think we have an excellent squad and so for me where we are right now isn't good enough
That's not calling for the managers head that's expressing an opinion which is what the pod is about
All most of us want is a more positive mindset - think second half v F/wood and when down to ten men v P/boro
We have it in us
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We are underperforming, but not spectacularly so. Not Mick style. 11 points is a few wins. I don't agree with all Critch's team selections. But I'm not accountable and responsible. AH was in in full on moan mood last night and it meant he saw every single thing through a filter of misery. And you weren't too far behind. Reality is different. We gave Bolton a good game, it was close. We should've played two strikers, in my view. But we played pretty well. We've had some exciting games, that are conveniently forgotten. Probably cos we didn't win, like Cods away. People are demanding that we are super entertaining and win all the time, it seems to me. Completely out of kilter.

I recipe for misery. Making oneself miserable. It's football. The value of entertainment may fall as well as rise. It will rise, I believe.

And what's a litany of games FFS? 😉
 
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