Shamina Begum

20togo said:
i find some of this using the excuse that she was a child somewhat ridiculous. She was fifteen years old, and an age which in their culture they can marry. A person who is 15 yrs and 364 days old is a child and then the next say she is a 16 year old adult and somehow people think a mindset will have changed in one day and that can be judged differently as to their thoughts.
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No one actually thinks a 16 year old is an adult, except the law.
 
20togo said:
i find some of this using the excuse that she was a child somewhat ridiculous. She was fifteen years old, and an age which in their culture they can marry. A person who is 15 yrs and 364 days old is a child and then the next say she is a 16 year old adult and somehow people think a mindset will have changed in one day and that can be judged differently as to their thoughts.
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Their culture?? You do realise she was a British child, subject to British law? Or do you think different ethnic or religious groups should have different laws?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Their culture?? You do realise she was a British child, subject to British law? Or do you think different ethnic or religious groups should have different laws?
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that's the theory but is it reasonable to say what should happen and what does happen are not quite the same.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
No one actually thinks a 16 year old is an adult, except the law.
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that's sort of my point. i wasn't particularly focusing on the law but more on how a persons actions or thoughts won't have changed by that one day be that she was a child one day and an adult the next. Too much focus in the excuse she was a child.
 
20togo said:
i find some of this using the excuse that she was a child somewhat ridiculous. She was fifteen years old, and an age which in their culture they can marry. A person who is 15 yrs and 364 days old is a child and then the next say she is a 16 year old adult and somehow people think a mindset will have changed in one day and that can be judged differently as to their thoughts.
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Their culture? She is born and bred in this country. It is illegal to marry at 15.
 
Wizaard said:
Their culture? She is born and bred in this country. It is illegal to marry at 15.
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And now we’re getting to the heart of it.

Once it was, you can’t be Jewish and British. Or you wouldn’t be killing British soldiers in Palestine.

Then it was, you can’t be Catholic and British. Or you wouldn’t be killing British soldiers in Northern Ireland.

Now it’s, you can’t be Muslim and British. Or you wouldn’t be killing British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It’s possible to be British and ….. all sorts of different colours, creeds and religions. That’s sort of its magic. And something to be proud of?

Oh and don’t forget. Some of the British soldiers killed in those theatres of conflict would have been, Jewish, Catholic and Muslim.

Confusing eh?
 
Islam on the march in Europe and the UK.

On the Begum appeal I think she is the UK’s problem and we should probably take her back.

I doubt she would get prosecuted though.
 
Wizaard said:
Their culture? She is born and bred in this country. It is illegal to marry at 15.
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many things are illegal and so the law is broken. Din't be so naive. I always thought this country was multi cultural. are you suggesting it's not?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Not confusing at all as the thread isn't on about Israel or the IDF, it's about a British born Muslim from Bangledeshi heritage who decided to join a terrorist group who specialise in gang raping women, taking young brides, chopping peoples heads off and blowing up children at POP concerts

Some culture eh
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I sometimes wonder if we’re getting brainwashed in this country with fake news I really do.

First we had the anti Israeli lot screaming what the IDF did immediately after the 07/10/23 atrocities where 1,400 innocent men women and children were slaughtered some criticised the tough decisive action in the early days of the conflict (I’m not talking about today as it’s gone on far too long now and it’s simply not right the civilian suffering we’re seeing I’m purely talking about the initial reaction) and now we have another lot saying this ISIS terrorist bride should be allowed to come back here and be forgiven.

What’s wrong with these people have we turned a blind eye to terrorism these days and just accepted it? Why have some become so sympathetic to Begum? She joined a terrorist organisation married a terrorist and supported the beheading of westerners all her choice no one else’s yet when it all turned sour she wanted to come home back home and be forgiven.

Serious question I’m I missing something here why are some people backing her in saying she should be allowed to return? What have I missed? 🤷‍♂️
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I sometimes wonder if we’re getting brainwashed in this country with fake news I really do.

First we had the anti Israeli lot screaming what the IDF did immediately after the 07/10/23 atrocities where 1,400 innocent men women and children were slaughtered some criticised the tough decisive action in the early days of the conflict (I’m not talking about today as it’s gone on far too long now and it’s simply not right the civilian suffering we’re seeing I’m purely talking about the initial reaction) and now we have another lot saying this ISIS terrorist bride should be allowed to come back here and be forgiven.

What’s wrong with these people have we turned a blind eye to terrorism these days and just accepted it? Why have some become so sympathetic to Begum? She joined a terrorist organisation married a terrorist and supported the beheading of westerners all her choice no one else’s yet when it all turned sour she wanted to come home back home and be forgiven.

Serious question I’m I missing something here why are some people backing her in saying she should be allowed to return? What have I missed? 🤷‍♂️
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Because removing her citizenship is about a principle and not this specific case.
She was born here, was educated and brainwashed here and held a British passport. Essentially she is our problem as any other British person is.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Because removing her citizenship is about a principle and not this specific case.
She was born here, was educated and brainwashed here and held a British passport. Essentially she is our problem as any other British person is.
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why shouldn't it be about this specific case? Any murder, crime or illegal activity and trial is always about the specific case. She didn't want to be a British citizen she chose to leave and join a terrorist organisation with extreme anti western views and when she realised life wasn't all it was cracked up to be after a few years wanted to scuttle back. So sorry no, deal with the facts of this specific case. I was watching Jeremy Vine on friday and they had a journalist on who had interviewed her on two separate occasions. The first time she was full of remorse and talked lovingly about her children and he genuinely believed all she was saying. He kept in contact with her and got the chance to interview her again where his opinion drastically changed. She came across as a cold hearted bitch and saying her life had moved on and she had no interest in her children. So no it's not about principle at all, she's manipulating people like yourself into believing she's something she's really not.
 
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20togo said:
why shouldn't it be about this specific case? Any murder, crime or illegal activity and trial is always about the specific case.
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Because if the state can remove citizenship for people born and raised here when they do things the state doesn't like it sets a dangerous precedent for everybody.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Because if the state can remove citizenship for people born and raised here when they do things the state doesn't like it sets a dangerous precedent for everybody.
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you really are deliberately understating it when you say "do things the state doesn't like". It's a much more serious issue than that.
 
20togo said:
you really are deliberately understating it when you say "do things the state doesn't like". It's a much more serious issue than that.
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You haven't really answered the point.
I have no sympathy for Begum but she is actually a British citizen [or was]. The brainwashing that lead her to Isis took place in our capital city - that makes it our problem.
If we allow removal of citizenship to become normalised it leads to many potentially frightening outcomes. For me it stinks of totalitarianism.
I also suspect that the decision will eventually be shown to have been illegal.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
You haven't really answered the point.
I have no sympathy for Begum but she is actually a British citizen [or was]. The brainwashing that lead her to Isis took place in our capital city - that makes it our problem.
If we allow removal of citizenship to become normalised it leads to many potentially frightening outcomes. For me it stinks of totalitarianism.
I also suspect that the decision will eventually be shown to have been illegal.
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There are 400 people who have come back to this country who have fought for isis but this cretinous govt is playing to the gallery with Begum.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I sometimes wonder if we’re getting brainwashed in this country with fake news I really do.

First we had the anti Israeli lot screaming what the IDF did immediately after the 07/10/23 atrocities where 1,400 innocent men women and children were slaughtered some criticised the tough decisive action in the early days of the conflict (I’m not talking about today as it’s gone on far too long now and it’s simply not right the civilian suffering we’re seeing I’m purely talking about the initial reaction) and now we have another lot saying this ISIS terrorist bride should be allowed to come back here and be forgiven.

What’s wrong with these people have we turned a blind eye to terrorism these days and just accepted it? Why have some become so sympathetic to Begum? She joined a terrorist organisation married a terrorist and supported the beheading of westerners all her choice no one else’s yet when it all turned sour she wanted to come home back home and be forgiven.

Serious question I’m I missing something here why are some people backing her in saying she should be allowed to return? What have I missed? 🤷‍♂️
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What you have missed is the rule of law, rather than emotion. The courts have decided that it was lawful, so that is it. However, it will not stop those of us who believe a child is a child regardless of their religion.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
What you have missed is the rule of law, rather than emotion. The courts have decided that it was lawful, so that is it. However, it will not stop those of us who believe a child is a child regardless of their religion.
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Like I’ve said many times previously a child who was intelligent enough to buy air tickets to Turkey make her way to Syria marry an ISIS fighter have several children and become a Jihadi bride who stuck two fingers up to this country and only when it went sour she wanted to be forgiven and return home.

Child my arse every decision she’s made was of her own making anyway she’s found her home now in Syria pray to God she stays there and not another pound is spent of this lottery of appeals.

Anyway enough of the ISIS bride I’m finished with her sick to death of Keep hearing about her she’s history now time to move on it’s time to rejoice in a beer right now after that result. 🍺
 
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We do have double standards with this stuff.

She, a 15 year old Muslim girls, was 15 and knew exactly what she was doing.

15 year old white girls being groomed by Muslim gangs didn't (and yes I know, some were much younger).

I don't think it's black and white, but what the government has done is lawful, even if it's uncomfortable.
 
20togo said:
i find some of this using the excuse that she was a child somewhat ridiculous. She was fifteen years old, and an age which in their culture they can marry. A person who is 15 yrs and 364 days old is a child and then the next say she is a 16 year old adult and somehow people think a mindset will have changed in one day and that can be judged differently as to their thoughts.
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I am afraid you are a year out of date, at least as applies to England and Wales.

On Monday 27th February 2023, The Marriage and Civil Partnership (Minimum Age) Act 2022 came into force. The Act raised the legal age of marriage and civil partnership in England and Wales to 18 years. The Act was given Royal Assent in April 2022.

The aim of raising the minimum age of marriage and civil partnership is to protect children from forced marriage.

I read your post as you intending your opinion to apply quite generally to us, not including other countries where the age of consent varies considerably. Even Scotland and NI are still different. In Scotland 16 yo teenagers can marry freely without any further permission needed. In NI again that is allowed, but parental consent is required.
 
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What is also generally overlooked is that the man at the heart of the ISIL network who smuggled Begum into Syria, Mohammed Rashed, was conducting an intelligence operation on behalf of Canada. A serving senior intelligence officer in the UK has confirmed that Rashed was a Canadian spy.

So, one of our Five-Eyes allies was responsible for getting 15 year-old Begum across the Turkey/Syria border and no doubt encouraged her all along the journey. And the UK intelligence services probably knew that from the start but did nothing to prevent it.

That muddies the waters a bit in terms of responsibility, notwithstanding the crimes that Begum may have subsequently committed as a child and possibly later as an adult. She turned 18 in August 2018 when she may already have been in the refugee camp where she was found in February 2019.

Shamima Begum - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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Archibald Knox said:
I am afraid you are a year out of date, at least as applies to England and Wales. I read your post as you applying your opinion quite generally to us, not including other countries where the age of consent varies considerably. Even Scotland and NI are still different. In Scotland 16 yo teenagers can marry freely without any further permission needed. In NI again that is allowed, but parental consent is required.

On Monday 27th February 2023, The Marriage and Civil Partnership (Minimum Age) Act 2022 came into force. The Act raised the legal age of marriage and civil partnership in England and Wales to 18 years. The Act was given Royal Assent in April 2022.

The aim of raising the minimum age of marriage and civil partnership is to protect children from forced marriage.
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not really my point at all. My point was all about the mindset of a 15 year old who is nearly 16 being no different to some-one who has actually turned 16.
 
20togo said:
not really my point at all. My point was all about the mindset of a 15 year old who is nearly 16 being no different to some-one who has actually turned 16.
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Yes, I see. 16 year olds, although permitted to marry in some cultures (incl Scotland) should be regarded as children with regard to their emotional development. OK.
 
Can the agenda driven moderator who keeps removing posts that don't suit his agenda please come out and tell us who he is?

Why is it a secret who the moderators are?
 
Macseasider said:
I know. I saw some GB news followers arriving on our shores in a small boat the other day. Then I realised it was Jaffa coming home from a fishing trip.
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Some good money to be made down there Mac if you own a boat £2,000 each on average that’s £20,000 a trip I could earn so beats the fishing any day of the week.

Sadly after all the shit I’ve given out on here about them coming here I can hardly justify bringing them in on my boat. 🚤🫣
 
20togo said:
many things are illegal and so the law is broken. Din't be so naive. I always thought this country was multi cultural. are you suggesting it's not?
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Multi cultural doesn't mean marrying in your early teens. Some would say that's a racist stereotype, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
 
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