1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Hmm, I was expecting a more positive vote in favour of withdrawing arms than a ratio of 7:3.
Should the UK suspend arms sales to Israel
- Thread starter 1966_and_all_that
- Start date
20togo
Well-known member
So then, perhaps there is an alternative viewpoint to those on here who tend to shout the loudest.
.Just watching the bbc news where Israel are saying it was a catastrophic mistake but that there were men with guns in the lorries and warehouses, think it was something like that, but they got it badly wrong when the aid workers went one way and the gunmen another. If that is accurate it does beg the question of what the gunmen were doing around there in the first place? Maybe making sure that they got their cut for Hamas perhaps. Do they too themselves still have a stranglehold on the aid that does get in? Think it's a valid question.
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Macseasider
Well-known member
Nah - it's just that the RWNJ's of the board rallied round.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
I think it's worth mentioning that, AFAIK, we've never had a 7/10 thread on this board, how many anti-Israel threads have we had since?
It seems you may be right.
20togo
Well-known member
well that doesn't say much then for the looney lefties who we all know frequent this board and why they have a bigger portion of the vote.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
I'm not going to diss you for that post. These things are difficult and Israel have behaved the right way...albeit under the command of the USA.So then, perhaps there is an alternative viewpoint to those on here who tend to shout the loudest.
Just watching the bbc news where Israel are saying it was a catastrophic mistake but that there were men with guns in the lorries and warehouses, think it was something like that, but they got it badly wrong when the aid workers went one way and the gunmen another. If that is accurate it does beg the question of what the gunmen were doing around there in the first place? Maybe making sure that they got their cut for Hamas perhaps. Do they too themselves still have a stranglehold on the aid that does get in? Think it's a valid question.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
So then, perhaps there is an alternative viewpoint to those on here who tend to shout the loudest.
Good point, for instance does anybody have any idea which poster has shouted the loudest by posting the most messages on this thread?
Hertsseasider
Well-known member
I know , I know
20togo
Well-known member
well there's at least four of you just taking it in turns to try and make me see the error of my ways.Jeez,the vote is even narrower now. May i suggest you re-evaluate your position.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
No, the IDF said there "may" have been 1 man who "may" have had a bag, that"may" have contained a gun. In that context it's a bit different, isn't it?So then, perhaps there is an alternative viewpoint to those on here who tend to shout the loudest.
Just watching the bbc news where Israel are saying it was a catastrophic mistake but that there were men with guns in the lorries and warehouses, think it was something like that, but they got it badly wrong when the aid workers went one way and the gunmen another. If that is accurate it does beg the question of what the gunmen were doing around there in the first place? Maybe making sure that they got their cut for Hamas perhaps. Do they too themselves still have a stranglehold on the aid that does get in? Think it's a valid question.
20togo
Well-known member
not no but yes.
"After the aid convoy reached its warehouse destination, a car carrying what the IDF said were gunmen headed north, while the WCK aid workers began driving south in vehicles marked with the charity's logo."
Thats gunmen plural not gunman. So pretty much as i said.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
So why has Israel apologised?
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
You really are desperate for the outcome that you want.
20togo
Well-known member
was anything i said incorrect? Not sure of the point you want to make. Israel made a grave error in which aid workers were needlessly killed. They've apologised because something went badly wrong. It's all been detailed so is there for you to see.
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20togo
Well-known member
Again what is your point. Tangerinemoss tried to say something I'd said was wrong so why shouldn't i correct him and provide him with evidence that what i said was correct. The BBC website. So forgive me, but i reckon it's you who is desperate for the outcome you want. Whatever that may be. And let's face it, it was you who started the thread asking for a vote.
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Hertsseasider
Well-known member
Out of the respect for those murdered and those needlessly killed, how about we stand down and leave it now eh?
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
You don't recognise your misguided assertions do you. It's not a logical error - as in 2 + 2 = 5 - rather an unwillingness to see the reasonableness of other people's understanding of situations.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
"Needlessly killed." Your use of language is pitiful.
20togo
Well-known member
What misguided assertion are you talking about? TM tried to suggest that what i said was wrong. It wasn't. And you mean its a one way street and only your view is the correct one. You started the thread with only one aim in mind but it seems it didn't turn out as you'd hoped by your own admission.
Yawn.
btw, i was happy to leave it at that on Herts suggestion. But hey, you couldn't do that could you! Now that is pitiful.
Oh and seeing as you like to think you are the grammar police on here can i just tell you that if you ask a question then don't to put the symbol "?" at the end of it.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Then what?..
I'm still waiting for the conditional clause.
20togo
Well-known member
forget... i forgot to put forget in. But hey, i don't get hung up on others spelling mistakes and grammar like you seem to do.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
I know the sentence you mean. I left it sans ? just for you.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
That may be what the BBC reported, but that it not what the Retired Israeli officer who had carried out the report said, that was as I wrote it. Yet again the BBC sanitising, not your fault
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
“Sanitising” is a bit strong. Arguably, all that the BBC are doing is presenting the IDF’s version of events. It’s other people who are jumping on the BBC’s reports and inferring this must be what actually happened. Basically saying “Aha, so this is the TRUTH!!!!!!”.
Plenty of people (including WCK) are calling for an independent investigation and given the Israeli habit of being “economical with the truth” I think that’s absolutely the least that should be done. Until that happens the suspicion remains that the IDF report is a whitewash, to hide the deliberate targeting of aid workers, with an couple of army officers being offered up as scapegoats.
And arm supplies should be suspended pending the outcome of that investigation.
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Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Israeli inquiry findings on aid worker killings lack credibility, charity says | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian
WCK renews call for independent investigation as former general blames incident on ‘grave errors’
amp.theguardian.com
This report shows plenty of people/organisations are sceptical about the credibility of the IDF investigation and its version of events. An investigation that Israeli apologists on here are desperate to present as fact.
20togo
Well-known member
mmmm....not sure i should be held accountable for watching the bbc news and reading their website and saying what i've read and heard is a pack of lies. Hey ho!
20togo
Well-known member
perhaps you give great credence to everything Hamas saying as being fact. Anyway, so you're not an Israeli apologist. So what are you then? Mmmm....what should i consider as the options?Israeli inquiry findings on aid worker killings lack credibility, charity says | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian
WCK renews call for independent investigation as former general blames incident on ‘grave errors’
This report shows plenty of people/organisations are sceptical about the credibility of the IDF investigation and its version of events. An investigation that Israeli apologists on here are desperate to present as fact.
April13th1970
Well-known member
Yet Hamas haven't yet apologized for invading, Israel and massacring thousands of Jews on 7/10 yet the rabid Israel hating liberals and socialists in here don't appear to have an issue with that
20togo
Well-known member
so let's try and clear this up. Was there a gunman/gunmen anywhere near the warehouses or lorries at any point? If so, care to explain why and the role they were playing?Israeli inquiry findings on aid worker killings lack credibility, charity says | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian
WCK renews call for independent investigation as former general blames incident on ‘grave errors’
This report shows plenty of people/organisations are sceptical about the credibility of the IDF investigation and its version of events. An investigation that Israeli apologists on here are desperate to present as fact.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Are WCK Hamas supporting?
Are Oxfam Hamas supporting?
The UN?
Biden or Blinken?
I’d thought we’d settled a long time ago that criticism of Israel isn’t pro Hamas but I see the slur has risen its head again. Also the insinuation that criticism of Israel is automatically anti semitic.
Desperate stuff from someone who has lost the moral high ground.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Depends whether you’ve swallowed the IDF version of events without question I suppose.
20togo
Well-known member
Let me make this very clear. If you want to throw accusations my way, you will get them straight back!
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Loses the argument. Tries to pick a fight. Classic 20s.
Anyway I’m back off to London so enjoy your day and the football.
20togo
Well-known member
Avoidance of the answer. Maybe you swallow everything Hamas say because for months now, I would say i've seen little or even no criticism from you. Remember, it's not that long back that the UN had to dismiss workers who had taken part in the attack on 7/10. Did you mention that at all by the way back then? I doubt it. So is it any wonder Israel want to tread with extreme caution with regards to trust.
20togo
Well-known member
Loses the argument? Pick a fight? Isn't that what you and a few others are doing., Remind me, what was the purpose of this thread again. Was it to try and prove you thought you lefties were right and it hasn't seemingly gone totally the way you expected.
Have a good day.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Clearly you haven't read through the thread in detail.
Rotterdam+Sussex_Seasider
Well-known member
Same old crap as all your tiresome FB posts. What a Christian you are not. You have never shown any sympathy for the INNOCENT people in Gaza.
glasshalffull
Well-known member
Israel seems to be getting day by day into an ever increasing hole.
Biden now under a lot of pressure to cease arms supplies at least temporarily.
Iran about to launch an attack on the country, and possibly on US targets as well.
Famine beginning to hit hard in Gaza and Israel under immense pressure to allow in much more food, water and other humanitarian aid in before it is too late, and rapidly losing the support of allies.
I think for their own good they now need to stop, or at least radically slow down the digging.
Biden now under a lot of pressure to cease arms supplies at least temporarily.
Iran about to launch an attack on the country, and possibly on US targets as well.
Famine beginning to hit hard in Gaza and Israel under immense pressure to allow in much more food, water and other humanitarian aid in before it is too late, and rapidly losing the support of allies.
I think for their own good they now need to stop, or at least radically slow down the digging.
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Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
That turned out to be nonsense, too.
20togo
Well-known member
have you got evidence for that?
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Sweden and Canada resume aid to UN Gaza agency - BBC News
The decision comes as investigators probe if some UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack.
www.bbc.co.uk
There were claims that the confessions of UNWRA staff had been obtained by the torture of Palestinian hostages as reported in this BBC article. Israel denies there was any torture.
As you’ve said before, there’s a lot of PR from both sides so none of us know the truth. What is factual though is that Japan, Sweden, Finland and Canada have all resumed funding (the other two since the attached article was published).
20togo
Well-known member
right, so there's no evidence that it is not true as TM said.Sweden and Canada resume aid to UN Gaza agency - BBC News
The decision comes as investigators probe if some UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack.
There were claims that the confessions of UNWRA staff had been obtained by the torture of Palestinian hostages as reported in this BBC article. Israel denies there was any torture.
As you’ve said before, there’s a lot of PR from both sides so none of us know the truth. What is factual though is that Japan, Sweden, Finland and Canada have all resumed funding (the other two since the attached article was published).
'I've recently referred to the PR campaign by both sides. And the fact those countries have renewed aid can only be a good thing. Maybe the UN got their house in order.
I still find it rather amusing that i got pilloried for believing the BBC.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
IMO you’re misrepresenting the BBC reports.
The Beeb are simply reporting what the Israelis are claiming. They aren’t saying that version of events is true.
It’s the same as the WCK situation. Israel says there were gunmen in the warehouse. The BBC reports what the IDF claim. That doesn’t make the Israeli claims true.
20togo
Well-known member
I
I see that another Israeli hostage murdered body has been recovered. Just thought I'd mention it otherwise you'd probably not consider it of any importance or relevance with regards to events happening in Gaza. Hamas are clearly still putting up a fierce defence with no thought that the longer they do this then more and more innocent people are going to be killed.
utter bollux. I simply quoted what the bbc said. How the fuck can that be me misrepresenting them?
I see that another Israeli hostage murdered body has been recovered. Just thought I'd mention it otherwise you'd probably not consider it of any importance or relevance with regards to events happening in Gaza. Hamas are clearly still putting up a fierce defence with no thought that the longer they do this then more and more innocent people are going to be killed.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
I've had a quick read through this thread and its just the same tired nonsense and i honestly don't give a fcuk anymore
The Israel/Arab conflict will never ever end i was told that from my old history teacher when i was about 11 years of age and it matters not if the Uk sell arms its just another political point scoring exercise from a load of lying tw@t politicians sticking out soundbites for the idiots to lap up
My advice is stop worrying about things that don't effect you as the conflict in that region will never end
The Israel/Arab conflict will never ever end i was told that from my old history teacher when i was about 11 years of age and it matters not if the Uk sell arms its just another political point scoring exercise from a load of lying tw@t politicians sticking out soundbites for the idiots to lap up
My advice is stop worrying about things that don't effect you as the conflict in that region will never end
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
To repeat. The BBC reported the Israeli claims that UNWRA personnel had been involved in 7/10. You presented those claims as facts simply because they were reported by the BBC.
Reuters have reported UN claims that the Israeli allegations “lack credibility”. If I adopted your logic this would be cast iron proof that the Israeli claims were untrue, but that would be a misrepresentation of what Reuters were saying. They are simply reporting what has been said. They aren’t claiming it’s true.
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
Gaza: Israeli Strike Killing 106 Civilians an Apparent War Crime
An Israeli airstrike on a six-story apartment building sheltering hundreds of people in central Gaza on October 31, 2023, is an apparent war crime, Human Rights Watch said today. The attack, which killed at least 106 civilians, including 54 children, is among the deadliest single incidents for...
I see that another hundred or so Palestinians have been killed. Just thought I’d mention it otherwise you’d probably not consider it of any importance or relevance to events happening in Gaza. The IDF are clearly continuing with indiscriminate attacks with no thought that the longer they do this then more and more innocent people are going to be killed.
Did you see what I did there?
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
It's important that our allies hear us: our NATO allies, our 5 Eyes allies, Japan and EU nations. What we say also needs to be heard in the Middle East and Africa and, when relevant in South America. We may not have the loudest voice in the world anymore but we still have a relevant voice.