Sour For Sadler

ItsGrimUpNorth

ItsGrimUpNorth

Well-known member
I understand that results aren’t going our way and the formation isn’t helping. I get that, completely. However, has NC really got that much quality to be able to change things? Is he REALLY being backed by the owner?

We blamed Appleton, we blamed McCarthy & now we’re blaming Critchley. There is 1 common denominator between all 3 of those managers and that’s the man in charge. I can see it turning sour for Sadler if things don’t change.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
I understand that results aren’t going our way and the formation isn’t helping. I get that, completely. However, has NC really got that much quality to be able to change things? Is he REALLY being backed by the owner?

We blamed Appleton, we blamed McCarthy & now we’re blaming Critchley. There is 1 common denominator between all 3 of those managers and that’s the man in charge. I can see it turning sour for Sadler if things don’t change.
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He definitely isn't being backed the way he should be, it's pitiful how little we've spent on transfers.

That being said, however, the squad on paper is still good enough to compete for the top 6 at this level (although it's no better than that).

I'm fairly sure also that Thompson, Trybull and Lyons are the only players in the squad that Critchley hasn't either brought to the club or worked with in his 1st spell anyway, so he can't use the line that he doesn't have his own players to work with.

He seems clueless and his post match interviews make him sound like a deluded broken record.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
I understand that results aren’t going our way and the formation isn’t helping. I get that, completely. However, has NC really got that much quality to be able to change things? Is he REALLY being backed by the owner?

We blamed Appleton, we blamed McCarthy & now we’re blaming Critchley. There is 1 common denominator between all 3 of those managers and that’s the man in charge. I can see it turning sour for Sadler if things don’t change.
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Boycotts & protests?
 
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
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Yeah it’s the fans fault because they’re the ones playing upfront, centre half and pick the team.

What a mental post.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
I understand that results aren’t going our way and the formation isn’t helping. I get that, completely. However, has NC really got that much quality to be able to change things? Is he REALLY being backed by the owner?

We blamed Appleton, we blamed McCarthy & now we’re blaming Critchley. There is 1 common denominator between all 3 of those managers and that’s the man in charge. I can see it turning sour for Sadler if things don’t change.
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3 shocking choices of managers by Sadler it has to be said.

What worries me is Sadler said Critchley was the one name that kept jumping out at him so did we have any other applications other than Dobbie?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
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Bloody hell Daz, that’s the biggest load of rubbish you’ve ever written, please tell me you don’t believe that? It’s not the supporters fault, that’s ridiculous
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.
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I really enjoyed that period from September - April in the Championship in 2021/22 with no fans when we were dreaming of the play offs before we played Forest at home…

That was peak, with a packed Bloomfield Road.

What’s followed since has been piss poor recruitment of players and managers.

Granted some of our fans are deluded but it’s across all clubs that and the curse of the You Tube and social media world…

But let’s be honest, you’d have to have flown in from button moon to ever think Appleton would be a success and that Mick McCarthy would keep us up after watching his first few games.

Same applies to thinking we can go on a promotion charge with Beesley upfront.

We’ve got a very well paid infrastructure at the club that’s flopping on its bati crease.
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d be interested to know what level of debt we think the owner should put in every season?

Weren’t the Nobbers losing about £10m a season under Hemmings?

What level of loss should Blackpool be taking?
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I’d say in transfers we actually turn a profit. Obviously there is the day to day running of the club which will cost more now we have lost 6 million in tv money being relegated from the championship because Sadler wasn’t willing to put some money in to keep us there.

Then there’s the training ground and east stand which tbf he’s pumping money into and are both well underway and are both looking fantastic.
 
Northstandsinger said:
I’d say in transfers we actually turn a profit. Obviously there is the day to day running of the club which will cost more now we have lost 6 million in tv money being relegated from the championship because Sadler wasn’t willing to put some money in to keep us there.

Then there’s the training ground and east stand which tbf he’s pumping money into and are both well underway and are both looking fantastic.
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Agree on that.

However what level of loss should the club be accepting? If we are making on transfers right now and losing on overall (once G&A, wages etc are removed) loss is X

I don’t have the numbers to hand but I think we were losing about £4m a season in or out of the Championship (which is higher revenue but much higher wages). Is that too high or too low?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
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You’ve seriously lost the plot.

Shall fans be happy that we haven’t scored in 4? Don’t reinvest money from our best players? Got relegated last season? It’s fans fault the managers have been under par?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
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I think that as fans we have been very patient on the whole given what we endured with the previous custodians of the club.

Part of fans frustrations appear to be the lack of signings, as well as a lack of progress on other matters such as the training ground. Sadler will have been the owner for 5 years in June and have things changed that much from their point of view in all that time??
We are still a League One club, we have been relegated, we still have no training ground (Fleetwood town meanwhile go from strength to strength on that front with the latest addition being an indoor pitch). The East stand has still to be constructed, and we are still selling our best players and not re-investing in the team. Sounds all too familiar.
What has changed though, is that more fans have returned through the turnstiles, and season ticket sales are up markedly on what they were not too long ago, consequently leading fans to feel a little short changed when they have kept their side of the deal by turning up.

Another aspect of Sadlers ownership is the fact he appears not to be able to retain staff or makes glaring errors of judgement in employing them in the first place. CEO's Heads of Recruitment, Sporting Directors etc, not to mention that we are on the 6th manager ( Critchley twice) in such a short space of time.

Perhaps a statement from Sadler explaining what his intentions are re investment in the team, and whether or not funds are available for Critchley would help appease some of them, and may serve to retain some of the new faces that have visited Bloomfield Road recently, as very few people will want to return on a weekly basis to watch what is on offer at the moment as we approach the equivalent to a FULL WORKING DAY without one professional player being capable of putting the ball in the net.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I really enjoyed that period from September - April in the Championship in 2021/22 with no fans when we were dreaming of the play offs before we played Forest at home…

That was peak, with a packed Bloomfield Road.
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If you look at it though it’s been a case of steady decline really since fans have been back.

I’ve seen this same thing happen with other Clubs, where the fans have created a similarly toxic environment.

I mean look at last season… The fans on young Rhys Williams back before he’d kicked a ball… The toxicity around Appleton… Forced meetings with the Club etc…

And it’s started again this season and we’re only a few games in.

I just think we’re an an absolute basket case of a fan base at the minute. Until that changes we’re fucked.

You can bring in whoever you want as manager / players, but it’s just papering over the cracks…. We need a complete change of Fanbase - it’s probably going to take a generation to rid ourselves of the Premier League bandwagoners, before we can truly progress (30 years + I’d say)
 
Chunkylad said:
Agree on that.

However what level of loss should the club be accepting? If we are making on transfers right now and losing on overall (once G&A, wages etc are removed) loss is X

I don’t have the numbers to hand but I think we were losing about £4m a season in or out of the Championship (which is higher revenue but much higher wages). Is that too high or too low?
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Id say Sadler will want to get to the point where the club is completely self sufficient without him losing a penny wether that’s possible or not I don’t know, can’t see any clubs not losing money like you say what those amounts are I’m not sure any of us will know.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
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What utter twaddle, blame culture? We're in a generation where people are rewarded or applauded for 2nd best. If its not good enough, it's not good enough and questions need to be asked in the house. The defending is shocking, tactics are not working, inverted wingers not working, injuries starting to occur already. Buck stops with critchley, the players, and the coaching staff
 
Sadlers biggest issue is his judgment with managerial appointments, most problems have stemmed from those. Not sure if he tries to be too smart sometimes rather than just following logic. The report on Critch seemed very convenient, not sure who he was compared against but of course his record was going to look better than a manager with no to little experience.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If you look at it though it’s been a case of steady decline really since fans have been back.

I’ve seen this same thing happen with other Clubs, where the fans have created a similarly toxic environment.

I mean look at last season… The fans on young Rhys Williams back before he’d kicked a ball… The toxicity around Appleton… Forced meetings with the Club etc…

And it’s started again this season and we’re only a few games in.

I just think we’re an an absolute basket case of a fan base at the minute. Until that changes we’re fucked.

You can bring in whoever you want as manager / players, but it’s just papering over the cracks…. We need a complete change of Fanbase - it’s probably going to take a generation to rid ourselves of the Premier League bandwagoners, before we can truly progress (30 years + I’d say)
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Nope not having that at all. The fans got us over the line in loads of Championship games in our first season back. Blackburn at home… Preston… Hull… Millwall etc.

Why was that? Because the connection between the Club and fanbase was the best it’s been.

The steady decline has come from the January transfer window that year, when we signed Jake Beesley and Charlie Kirk on loan and lost Ryan Wintle.

The majority of fans aren’t daft, they could see the optics being played out after the Appleton appointment and fake transfer bids for Barlaser and Bashiri et al. Cameron Brannagan too 👎🏼

Our fanbase is no different to any other teams. A scan of social media will tell you that Arsenal fans are seriously on Arteta’s case after their start… that’s the modern world.

I think with our fanbase there is some scarring after the Oyston regime but there’s also an understanding of when you are being played & our transfer recruitment despite heavily investing in an infrastructure to ensure it doesn’t happen has been nowhere near good enough.

Fans clocking that, isn’t the problem.
 
I’d say he is uncomfortable with the current level of loss and that’s why we are not going to spend £2m on Clarke Harris etc

I’ll put a number on it. I think we can lose £5m a year for 10 years and nothing more than that. Even at that level the owner has lost £50m and barring a return to the Prem will never see that back.

So at a spend level a bit higher than we are at now, we are asking Sadler to blow £50m of his family money.
 
Sadler has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes but that makes him no different to every owner in the league. We can see how many clubs change manager every season and for every success story there’s a shit show.

As far as investment goes, I’ll go from the balance sheet. From the accounts we’ve seen so far there has been investment made since he took over the club. He could of course invest more but it’s no guarantee of success on the pitch.

The focus on the boardroom is one of the things I’m starting to find tiresome when it comes to supporting Pool. For me we have the ideal scenario, a fan with a bit of dough who wants to make the club sustainable for the future. My first match was 1992, so I can only compare him to the other lot and it’s no comparison for me.

I appreciate the passion of the fanbase and how much people care, there’s many who care much more than I do. I do think that we’re becoming extremely reactionary and always looking for someone to blame when things are going wrong and blame culture will never be a positive thing. Sack the manager, sack the board after a few games is a bit childish for me and it does make me question our fanbase although I do recognise this board is not reflective of the whole fanbase.

I’m happy to forgive mistakes as long as the intentions are good, and I have seen no evidence to suggest his aren’t from his tenure so far.
 
Billed said:
I think that as fans we have been very patient on the whole given what we endured with the previous custodians of the club.

Part of fans frustrations appear to be the lack of signings, as well as a lack of progress on other matters such as the training ground. Sadler will have been the owner for 5 years in June and have things changed that much from their point of view in all that time??
We are still a League One club, we have been relegated, we still have no training ground (Fleetwood town meanwhile go from strength to strength on that front with the latest addition being an indoor pitch). The East stand has still to be constructed, and we are still selling our best players and not re-investing in the team. Sounds all too familiar.
What has changed though, is that more fans have returned through the turnstiles, and season ticket sales are up markedly on what they were not too long ago, consequently leading fans to feel a little short changed when they have kept their side of the deal by turning up.

Another aspect of Sadlers ownership is the fact he appears not to be able to retain staff or makes glaring errors of judgement in employing them in the first place. CEO's Heads of Recruitment, Sporting Directors etc, not to mention that we are on the 6th manager ( Critchley twice) in such a short space of time.

Perhaps a statement from Sadler explaining what his intentions are re investment in the team, and whether or not funds are available for Critchley would help appease some of them, and may serve to retain some of the new faces that have visited Bloomfield Road recently, as very few people will want to return on a weekly basis to watch what is on offer at the moment as we approach the equivalent to a FULL WORKING DAY without one professional player being capable of putting the ball in the net.
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Great post. My thoughts exactly !
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d say he’s been very badly advised and wasted money in so many areas.

It’s why I’m uncomfortable with the comparisons to the Oystons. They didn’t give two and enjoyed the fans pain. I feel Sadler has spent more money than he is comfortable losing and yet not got the return for it.
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We’ve got and had a massive infrastructure compared to the previous regime but not seeing the benefit of it.

Recruitment is key to everything & we’re relying on Jordan Rhodes who that Downes probably knows from Sheff Wed days.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
I understand that results aren’t going our way and the formation isn’t helping. I get that, completely. However, has NC really got that much quality to be able to change things? Is he REALLY being backed by the owner?

We blamed Appleton, we blamed McCarthy & now we’re blaming Critchley. There is 1 common denominator between all 3 of those managers and that’s the man in charge. I can see it turning sour for Sadler if things don’t change.
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All these managers must have been told what they are letting themselves in for and have felt that they could do the job. Players have been brought in either by loan or bought so I am assuming money has been there . You can only blame the managers.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Nope not having that at all. The fans got us over the line in loads of Championship games in our first season back. Blackburn at home… Preston… Hull… Millwall etc.

Why was that? Because the connection between the Club and fanbase was the best it’s been.

The steady decline has come from the January transfer window that year, when we signed Jake Beesley and Charlie Kirk on loan and lost Ryan Wintle.

The majority of fans aren’t daft, they could see the optics being played out after the Appleton appointment and fake transfer bids for Barlaser and Bashiri et al. Cameron Brannagan too 👎🏼

Our fanbase is no different to any other teams. A scan of social media will tell you that Arsenal fans are seriously on Arteta’s case after their start… that’s the modern world.

I think with our fanbase there is some scarring after the Oyston regime but there’s also an understanding of when you are being played & our transfer recruitment despite heavily investing in an infrastructure to ensure it doesn’t happen has been nowhere near good enough.

Fans clocking that, isn’t the problem.
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Don’t get me wrong, on the odd occasions our fans can be encouraging, but it’s mainly when the more old school fans return for special occasions.

For the most part we’ve become a bit Lilly-Livered and snowflakey… More like a crowd at a Pantomime really… We have our little happy clappy singalong and then it all falls apart.

I think you may be right about there being some scarring after the Oyston’s, but I think it’s more to do with the expectation that arrived with the Premier League lot… Everything changed when we got promoted to the EPL… We’ve completely lost that genuine passion and never say die attitude as supporters…. Here we are 5 games in to the Season and 50% of the fanbase has pretty much given up.

I saw it in Maxwell’s eyes and expression when the North Stand was having a pop at him last season…. A great Keeper who’s confidence was totally sapped, by a fanbase who were more interested in proving their point, than they were about getting behind the 11 men on the pitch.

It’s completely toxic… we’re fucked until it changes
 
If we appointed a manager that didn’t divide the fanbase before a ball was kicked and could carry the fan base with them respectfully and motivationally, and could do the same with the players then we’d have half a chance. The problem is and has been the owners re-appointment of ex-managers.

Goals tend to cancel out a few cretins in the crowd BFster. It starts from the top, what the manager delivers into the players and what the players deliver to the crowd. Your argument is arse faced up I’m afraid.
 
2 days left to show some intent and bring in somebody to score the required goals and to dictate the play. We will see, not feeling particularly optimistic
 
clappers said:
If we appointed a manager that didn’t divide the fanbase before a ball was kicked and could carry the fan base with them respectfully and motivationally, and could do the same with the players then we’d have half a chance. The problem is and has been the owners re-appointment of ex-managers.
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So the fanbase should ‘approve’ managerial appointments and if we don’t get who we want, we just sulk?
😂

Thanks for proving the point 👍
 
Dougz said:
Sadlers biggest issue is his judgment with managerial appointments, most problems have stemmed from those. Not sure if he tries to be too smart sometimes rather than just following logic. The report on Critch seemed very convenient, not sure who he was compared against but of course his record was going to look better than a manager with no to little experience.
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And therein lies the problem. He's a numbers man, he has got where he has by being on top of his game and looking at facts and figures and using algorithms, analysts, it's that kind of world. Unfortunately football isn't like that and he seems to have forgotten how to live in the real world when it comes to football, there has to be some emotion, some passion, listening to your customers and need to remove himself from the world of the matrix as he can't run the football side of the club by spreadsheets and computers telling him what's best like he is now, it isn't going to work, but I can't see him changing, he isn't wired like that.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm… There’s another common denominator and that’s us (the fans). We seemed to perform at our very best when the Stadiums was completely empty during CoViD.

Since the fans and their high expectations, the moaning and groaning, booing players off, calling for managers to be ‘sacked in the morning’ and getting on players backs, slagging the owners etc.. has returned, we’ve been shyte.

We just don’t seem to be able to get our shit together as a fanbase anymore. We’re constantly slagging something about the club off and just can’t seem to collectively get behind the owner, the manager and the team without feeling the need to chip away at what they are trying to achieve.

I think it may take a period in L2 for a sense of grounding and appreciation to return and in order that we can actually get back to enjoying and supporting our team again. However until fans learn to create an atmosphere that is conducive to success, rather than the current ‘blame culture’ which is putting everyone at the club under too much of the wrong kind of pressure, we are going nowhere fast.
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League 2?! You've changed your tune since the weekend.

I dont think the fans have much if any thing to do with us not scoring for 9 hours tbh. The first moment of concern for me was when Andy Bayes asked Critch in Cork about how we looked well equipped in defence in midfield but was there a need to strengthen the forward line. Critch looked surprised and said not really, a little maybe, but we've got Lavs and Bees!

I won't criticise the spending of an owner who puts his own money into Blackpool FC and never takes any out. That will do me just fine, after 30 years of being pissed off by the Oystons.

But he is struggling to run the club effectively with the resources he does have. We lost all the key people last season, which indicates problems. I guess the fans were a factor in that. I've heard bits and pieces about Gerrity and MSG and fall outs. BM was hounded out, it seemed to me. Mob style. Male egos clashing. Relegation. What a surprise.

We've now appointed another load of suited people, but KO used to make better key decisions on his own, quite often, by accident or design. Maybe cos he cared less. McMahon, Grayson, Holloway. Maybe that's what Holloway meant! KO doesn't care so the pressure is off, I can manage however I like. Our key decision making now seems poor. We could use our resources a lot better than we are doing. I guess Karl worried less about risky manager appointments cos he knew they'd get no money and he didnt care what division we were in! Maybe Sadler needs to let go. Stand firm on finance, get a less safe manager in, more interesting football, and let it all find its own level. Be straight with the fans. This is our budget. We are going to entertain as much as possible but it may not be in the league of your choice. Basically cos we don't have a Championship budget. Cos we don't sell enough tickets.

So yeah, the fans are a negative pressure, and nobody would really want to work with that pressure. But Sadler keeps changing his personnel all the time and doesnt seem to have a clue what works and what doesnt. And critch seems to be great at coaching out of possession football but has no idea what an attacking threat looks like and chooses to add midfield players instead. Just in case we need them. Very little done about the wide and forward positions. Bizarrely. And he doesn't seem to know who his genuine wing backs are. That's baffling to me. Rhodes seems knee jerk and suggests zero scouting goes on.

Its like we are trying to be a Poundland version of Brentford or Brighton without the knowledge of how to do it. Maybe stop trying? Stop straining and worrying. Make it fun.

Maybe everyone is to blame. Fans, coaches, scouts, players, the board, the owner. Maybe we all just take it far too bloody seriously and consequently screw it all up. Suck the pleasure out of it all. It's much more fun in the lower leagues where it's not life or death, its just an afternoon or evening with mates watching some lads play football a lot better than we could ourselves.

Its supposed to be fun and it's just a game.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Don’t get me wrong, on the odd occasions our fans can be encouraging, but it’s mainly when the more old school fans return for special occasions.

For the most part we’ve become a bit Lilly-Livered and snowflakey… More like a crowd at a Pantomime really… We have our little happy clappy singalong and then it all falls apart.

I think you may be right about there being some scarring after the Oyston’s, but I think it’s more to do with the expectation that arrived with the Premier League lot… Everything changed when we got promoted to the EPL… We’ve completely lost that genuine passion and never say die attitude as supporters…. Here we are 5 games in to the Season and 50% of the fanbase has pretty much given up.

I saw it in Maxwell’s eyes and expression when the North Stand was having a pop at him last season…. A great Keeper who’s confidence was totally sapped, by a fanbase who were more interested in proving their point, than they were about getting behind the 11 men on the pitch.

It’s completely toxic… we’re fucked until it changes
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Agreed re Maxi, I think the fact that the fans sang Grimmys name during the game says it all. Irrespective of opinions that’s not the way to support.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So the fanbase should ‘approve’ managerial appointments and if we don’t get who we want, we just sulk?
😂

Thanks for proving the point 👍
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No, but why appoint a manager like Appleton who Sadler knew would be unwanted from the off by the majority of supporters, surely he knew that, he's supposed to be a supporter FFS! Same with McCarthy and the same with Critchley second time round. If you run a business and you employ a boss who is not very good and who is known and hated by your customers would you take them on? Of course you wouldn't because you'd be fucked in no time. And not to do it once but repeat doing it.
 
hertfordseasider said:
And therein lies the problem. He's a numbers man, he has got where he has by being on top of his game and looking at facts and figures and using algorithms, analysts, it's that kind of world. Unfortunately football isn't like that and he seems to have forgotten how to live in the real world when it comes to football, there has to be some emotion, some passion, listening to your customers and need to remove himself from the world of the matrix as he can't run the football side of the club by spreadsheets and computers telling him what's best like he is now, it isn't going to work, but I can't see him changing, he isn't wired like that.
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Bang on OP, excellently summarised. I said that previously about the need for a little gut instinct aligned to the more analytical approach.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It's not a cost saving competition mate
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Fair comment Phil.

I just want success without the club going through the shite of not knowing if we’ve got a future again.

I guess most don’t really care about the money element in the same way I do, actually I don’t know why I give two either 🤔 - it’s not my money so why should it matter if the owner is blowing more cash than he wants to?
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So the fanbase should ‘approve’ managerial appointments and if we don’t get who we want, we just sulk?
😂

Thanks for proving the point 👍
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No, the fanbase need to be given hope inspiration and belief like the players to be at their best and goals and performances drown out any negative shouts from sections of a crowd that you get at any club across the land.
 
voyeur said:
League 2?! You've changed your tune since the weekend.

I dont think the fans have much if any thing to do with us not scoring for 9 hours tbh. The first moment of concern for me was when Andy Bayes asked Critch in Cork about how we looked well equipped in defence in midfield but was there a need to strengthen the forward line. Critch looked surprised and said not really, a little maybe, but we've got Lavs and Bees!

I won't criticise the spending of an owner who puts his own money into Blackpool FC and never takes any out. That will do me just fine, after 30 years of being pissed off by the Oystons.

But he is struggling to run the club effectively with the resources he does have. We lost all the key people last season, which indicates problems. I guess the fans were a factor in that. I've heard bits and pieces about Gerrity and MSG and fall outs. BM was hounded out, it seemed to me. Mob style. Male egos clashing. Relegation. What a surprise.

We've now appointed another load of suited people, but KO used to make better key decisions on his own, quite often, by accident or design. Maybe cos he cared less. McMahon, Grayson, Holloway. Maybe that's what Holloway meant! KO doesn't care so the pressure is off, I can manage however I like. Our key decision making now seems poor. We could use our resources a lot better than we are doing. I guess Karl worried less about risky manager appointments cos he knew they'd get no money and he didnt care what division we were in! Maybe Sadler needs to let go. Stand firm on finance, get a less safe manager in, more interesting football, and let it all find its own level. Be straight with the fans. This is our budget. We are going to entertain as much as possible but it may not be in the league of your choice. Basically cos we don't have a Championship budget. Cos we don't sell enough tickets.

So yeah, the fans are a negative pressure, and nobody would really want to work with that pressure. But Sadler keeps changing his personnel all the time and doesnt seem to have a clue what works and what doesnt. And critch seems to be great at coaching out of possession football but has no idea what an attacking threat looks like and chooses to add midfield players instead. Just in case we need them. Very little done about the wide and forward positions. Bizarrely. And he doesn't seem to know who his genuine wing backs are. That's baffling to me. Rhodes seems knee jerk and suggests zero scouting goes on.

Its like we are trying to be a Poundland version of Brentford or Brighton without the knowledge of how to do it. Maybe stop trying? Stop straining and worrying. Make it fun.

Maybe everyone is to blame. Fans, coaches, scouts, players, the board, the owner. Maybe we all just take it far too bloody seriously and consequently screw it all up. Suck the pleasure out of it all. It's much more fun in the lower leagues where it's not life or death, its just an afternoon or evening with mates watching some lads play football a lot better than we could ourselves.

Its supposed to be fun and it's just a game.
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👏
 
voyeur said:
League 2?! You've changed your tune since the weekend.

I dont think the fans have much if any thing to do with us not scoring for 9 hours tbh. The first moment of concern for me was when Andy Bayes asked Critch in Cork about how we looked well equipped in defence in midfield but was there a need to strengthen the forward line. Critch looked surprised and said not really, a little maybe, but we've got Lavs and Bees!

I won't criticise the spending of an owner who puts his own money into Blackpool FC and never takes any out. That will do me just fine, after 30 years of being pissed off by the Oystons.

But he is struggling to run the club effectively with the resources he does have. We lost all the key people last season, which indicates problems. I guess the fans were a factor in that. I've heard bits and pieces about Gerrity and MSG and fall outs. BM was hounded out, it seemed to me. Mob style. Male egos clashing. Relegation. What a surprise.

We've now appointed another load of suited people, but KO used to make better key decisions on his own, quite often, by accident or design. Maybe cos he cared less. McMahon, Grayson, Holloway. Maybe that's what Holloway meant! KO doesn't care so the pressure is off, I can manage however I like. Our key decision making now seems poor. We could use our resources a lot better than we are doing. I guess Karl worried less about risky manager appointments cos he knew they'd get no money and he didnt care what division we were in! Maybe Sadler needs to let go. Stand firm on finance, get a less safe manager in, more interesting football, and let it all find its own level. Be straight with the fans. This is our budget. We are going to entertain as much as possible but it may not be in the league of your choice. Basically cos we don't have a Championship budget. Cos we don't sell enough tickets.

So yeah, the fans are a negative pressure, and nobody would really want to work with that pressure. But Sadler keeps changing his personnel all the time and doesnt seem to have a clue what works and what doesnt. And critch seems to be great at coaching out of possession football but has no idea what an attacking threat looks like and chooses to add midfield players instead. Just in case we need them. Very little done about the wide and forward positions. Bizarrely. And he doesn't seem to know who his genuine wing backs are. That's baffling to me. Rhodes seems knee jerk and suggests zero scouting goes on.

Its like we are trying to be a Poundland version of Brentford or Brighton without the knowledge of how to do it. Maybe stop trying? Stop straining and worrying. Make it fun.

Maybe everyone is to blame. Fans, coaches, scouts, players, the board, the owner. Maybe we all just take it far too bloody seriously and consequently screw it all up. Suck the pleasure out of it all. It's much more fun in the lower leagues where it's not life or death, its just an afternoon or evening with mates watching some lads play football a lot better than we could ourselves.

Its supposed to be fun and it's just a game.
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That's a belting post Voy and I agree with most of it. Sadler has steadied the ship, but like you say and I have continued to say, he seems to be repeating the same mistakes over and over again re recruitment and there is no sign of that changing. He is certainly no Oyston, but there isn't much difference when it comes to the football side of the business, I mean in the outcome, not the way it gets to the outcome. He is a numbers man, he lives his business life assessing risk and reward at all times so he has to look at every bit of data, you can't do that when you are recruiting managers and staff at a football club because there has to be some heart and passion behind the decisions as well and I don't see that at all.
 
hertfordseasider said:
No, but why appoint a manager like Appleton who Sadler knew would be unwanted from the off by the majority of supporters, surely he knew that, he's supposed to be a supporter FFS! Same with McCarthy and the same with Critchley second time round. If you run a business and you employ a boss who is not very good and who is known and hated by your customers would you take them on? Of course you wouldn't because you'd be fucked in no time. And not to do it once but repeat doing it.
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See what I mean…

This is precisely why we’ll never progress…

“Why can’t the owner just appoint the manager that I want him to do”

“Why can’t the owner and recruitment team not just bring in the players I expect them to”

“Why can’t the manager just play the formation and players that I want him to”

This is where we are at….

10,000 fans with a ‘Do as I say or my Toys are out of the Pram’ attitude.

We’re going nowhere fast until we get a grip of ourselves I’m afraid. People might not like having it pointed out, but that’s where we’re at.
 
hertfordseasider said:
That's a belting post Voy and I agree with most of it. Sadler has steadied the ship, but like you say and I have continued to say, he seems to be repeating the same mistakes over and over again re recruitment and there is no sign of that changing. He is certainly no Oyston, but there isn't much difference when it comes to the football side of the business, I mean in the outcome, not the way it gets to the outcome. He is a numbers man, he lives his business life assessing risk and reward at all times so he has to look at every bit of data, you can't do that when you are recruiting managers and staff at a football club because there has to be some heart and passion behind the decisions as well and I don't see that at all.
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I suspect Sadler does have heart and passion but is consumed by the responsibility and is scared of risk. Maybe hedging does that to people?

Why not remove the risk by being a bit more Karl, and just set a budget and look for fun and entertainment. Karl refused to spend Oyston money but let go of the need to succeed. Which took the pressure off. Sadler could do that in a less ramshackle and more fan friendly and professional way. Do it properly. For the fans, with the budget we have. We don't have a budget to compete with 90% of Championship clubs 90% of the time. That's just how it is. Can we all accept that?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
See what I mean…

This is precisely why we’ll never progress…

“Why can’t the owner just appoint the manager that I want him to do”

“Why can’t the owner and recruitment team not just bring in the players I expect them to”

“Why can’t the manager just play the formation and players that I want him to”

This is where we are at….

10,000 fans with a ‘Do as I say or my Toys are out of the Pram’ attitude.

We’re going nowhere fast until we get a grip of ourselves I’m afraid. People might not like having it pointed out, but that’s where we’re at.
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That's not what I said at all, Sadler has made some terrible appointments and he continues to do so, it's happened, fact and it's happened again and as supporters we are entitled to say so. He will do the same again if Critchley goes because it will be delivered by computer programs. You said yourself MA was the wrong choice and the same with McSaurus after a few games, going back for Critchley was a stupid thing to do and we are seeing that now. What about in 10 more games time and the football is still terrible and we're in the bottom 6, will you still be saying the same?
 
The squad is more than good enough to compete at the top end of L1.

The fundamental problem is that SS has again shown his lack of experience / knowledge of football. His managerial appointments have been catastrophic and for him to keep coming back to Critchley during the process is beyond stupid. He is a stubborn man, he doesn’t like criticism and to avoid showing weakness to fans, he’d knowingly do the wrong thing.

He’s now reappointed a man who is also stubborn and with an ego to match. Critchley fluked it first time around, with a high quality squad. When it started to go wrong he had no plan B and took the obvious way out. He was the same at QPR. His brand of football is turgid, but he believes he is some sort of football genius, because he graduated from a short-lived FA Course. You don’t need to be a genius and he’s not. His ‘expertise’ is with youth players, and yet he’s never given any of our youngsters a sniff.

He can’t cope with anyone testing him, as we saw with Jerry, Grimmy and perhaps now Tyrbull. If you actually think about their reactions, they all think they should have played or be playing. I don’t see much wrong with that hunger, but little man Critchley sees it differently and freezes them out.

SS had options, Dobbie for one, but he also had the likes of Gary Bowyer available, someone who did superbly for us in the most difficult times.

I cannot stand Critchley and I’m pissed off that fans reacted as they did v Burton, to his pathetic celebration and badge touching. It was all about him and his ego. Where is he after defeats! His post-match summaries are staggering and he rarely if ever takes responsibility.

He’s just a manager, a bad one, and we’re saddled with him. He’s got no incentive to change, because he’s now found that failure comes with a large pay-off.

If we beat Wigan, please ignore his celebrations.
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
See what I mean…

This is precisely why we’ll never progress…

“Why can’t the owner just appoint the manager that I want him to do”

“Why can’t the owner and recruitment team not just bring in the players I expect them to”

“Why can’t the manager just play the formation and players that I want him to”

This is where we are at….

10,000 fans with a ‘Do as I say or my Toys are out of the Pram’ attitude.

We’re going nowhere fast until we get a grip of ourselves I’m afraid. People might not like having it pointed out, but that’s where we’re at.
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Bit hypocritical all this Daz as you were one of the first to jump on Appletons back
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d say he is uncomfortable with the current level of loss and that’s why we are not going to spend £2m on Clarke Harris etc

I’ll put a number on it. I think we can lose £5m a year for 10 years and nothing more than that. Even at that level the owner has lost £50m and barring a return to the Prem will never see that back.

So at a spend level a bit higher than we are at now, we are asking Sadler to blow £50m of his family money.
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Some really well made points Chunky and that’s why most of the wish list type ideas people share are unrealistic, your £50 m doesn’t include the capital costs of a training facility and East stand. So Simon is probably closer to £80m out of his own pocket over 10 years!! Even with SS money we still only have circa 6th biggest playing budget in Lge 1 (although our average crowd will be lower than 6th) and I can’t recall since Man City were in this league a big club walking to the title with ease. Naturally we all want the Midas touch, that in my 40 years of watching has only been seen once, it’s right that we want it again as every fan of every club does but for me nearly all comments lack a huge level of realism. Let’s hope players from Chesterfield (Evatt), Mansfield (Baptiste) and loans like Coleman can be found but I can only really think of once when all the good fortune aligned, naturally wishing for more but happy to stay positive and patient whilst SS spends his circa £80m
 
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