Spiking of drinks

How many actually proven cases of spiking, either by needle or otherwise, do you know about?
None. I’m not sure that means it doesn’t happen, the time limit for testing is only 24 hours, and it’s not a routine test that medical staff conduct when a young person gets brought in with alcohol related illness, so it’s likely any genuine cases are being missed.
I’m torn with it, tbh, because the young ones seem convinced it’s happening.
 
None. I’m not sure that means it doesn’t happen, the time limit for testing is only 24 hours, and it’s not a routine test that medical staff conduct when a young person gets brought in with alcohol related illness, so it’s likely any genuine cases are being missed.

The cases that are being "suspected" at the moment are being picked up on the night, so there ought to be time for a toxicology report, also I don't think that 24 hour timeframe is necessarily correct.

You would think that after 20 years of this story we might be able to find a few cases where GHB etc was detected, by chance a routine stop and search might've found somone with a bottle of the stuff and maybe a syringe or some other damning evidence.


I’m torn with it, tbh, because the young ones seem convinced it’s happening.

You know how it works, the rumours start somewhere, maybe with a genuine case, they spread to twitter then get picked up in the national press, a feedback loop forms with every press story generating more activity on twitter and every twitter post starting another press story.

Soon enough everyone knows hundreds of people who it's happened to, they're convinced that it's going on in every bar and club across the country and once that happens every girl who's had one too many vodkas thinks she's had her drink spiked or imagines she's been injected.

My 2p: to the extent that it does happen it's far more likely to be an extra shot of vodka slipped into a drink bought for a friend rather than anything more direct such as GHB.
 
The cases that are being "suspected" at the moment are being picked up on the night, so there ought to be time for a toxicology report, also I don't think that 24 hour timeframe is necessarily correct.

You would think that after 20 years of this story we might be able to find a few cases where GHB etc was detected, by chance a routine stop and search might've found somone with a bottle of the stuff and maybe a syringe or some other damning evidence.




You know how it works, the rumours start somewhere, maybe with a genuine case, they spread to twitter then get picked up in the national press, a feedback loop forms with every press story generating more activity on twitter and every twitter post starting another press story.

Soon enough everyone knows hundreds of people who it's happened to, they're convinced that it's going on in every bar and club across the country and once that happens every girl who's had one too many vodkas thinks she's had her drink spiked or imagines she's been injected.

My 2p: to the extent that it does happen it's far more likely to be an extra shot of vodka slipped into a drink bought for a friend rather than anything more direct such as GHB.

I disagree but again I don’t have evidence to say you’re wrong.

There’s been an increasing flurry of noise about this new type of spiking. The least we should do is sit up and take note and investigate.

The very reason it could be on the increase is because we are not yet geared up to detect, diagnose and counteract it. It can easily pass off as drunk club goers. The increased awareness means we will hopefully have club staff, paramedics, police and individuals much more savvy and able to spot and help and investigate occurrences.

Criminals will continue to exploit ignorance and complacency for as long as they’re allowed to. If we get geared up to detect and record spiking crimes and have a system of rapid blood tests for example, then we can quantify if there’s a problem and target where it’s happening.
 
Happened to a young colleague of mine at the weekend on the street in Edinburgh. She was jabbed in the street, photo of the bruise and pinprick taken at the hospital, there for 8 hours. Luckily she was with a friend who was savvy enough to realise what had happened and get her help.
 
The cases that are being "suspected" at the moment are being picked up on the night, so there ought to be time for a toxicology report, also I don't think that 24 hour timeframe is necessarily correct.

You would think that after 20 years of this story we might be able to find a few cases where GHB etc was detected, by chance a routine stop and search might've found somone with a bottle of the stuff and maybe a syringe or some other damning evidence.




You know how it works, the rumours start somewhere, maybe with a genuine case, they spread to twitter then get picked up in the national press, a feedback loop forms with every press story generating more activity on twitter and every twitter post starting another press story.

Soon enough everyone knows hundreds of people who it's happened to, they're convinced that it's going on in every bar and club across the country and once that happens every girl who's had one too many vodkas thinks she's had her drink spiked or imagines she's been injected.

My 2p: to the extent that it does happen it's far more likely to be an extra shot of vodka slipped into a drink bought for a friend rather than anything more direct such as GHB.
Wow, why so much denial it's happening and you know it.
Shame on you.
 
I'm never sure how much of this is spiking rather than people simply having too much to drink, this is a story that keeps getting repeated every couple of years but actual documented cases of spiking seem to be remarkably thin on the ground.

This story about needles seems to be a variation on the same, whenever suspected cases are tested there's no evidence of any illicit drugs found in the results.
thats a load of bollocks.
 
There’s been an increasing flurry of noise about this new type of spiking. The least we should do is sit up and take note and investigate.

I disagree, this is the exact same story we've been seeing off and on for the last 20 years, and an increasing flurry of noise is usually down to the media rather than anything else.

Interestingly even medical experts are unsure on whether needle spiking is even possible: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-58994755

Prof Adam Winstock from the Global Drugs Survey says it would be difficult to inject someone with drugs in a night out situation.

"Needles have to be inserted with a level of care - and that's when you've got the patient sitting in front of you with skin and no clothes," he tells Newsbeat.

"The idea these things can be randomly given through clothes in a club is just not that likely."
 
How many proven cases do you know about?
Plenty. I know someone spiked by injection. A few years ago the police surrounded a night club in Crewe and tested everyone’s drinks, about one in ten were spiked. It is rife around the country, I don’t get how or why you could try and deny it
 
Plenty. I know someone spiked by injection. A few years ago the police surrounded a night club in Crewe and tested everyone’s drinks, about one in ten were spiked. It is rife around the country, I don’t get how or why you could try and deny it

Source?
 
Plenty. I know someone spiked by injection. A few years ago the police surrounded a night club in Crewe and tested everyone’s drinks, about one in ten were spiked. It is rife around the country, I don’t get how or why you could try and deny it
Genuine question, Hazi - as I asked earlier, did they feel the jab as it occurred? If not, how did they determine they had been injected?
I’m not doubting, btw, just trying to get my head round how this is going on.
 
The cases that are being "suspected" at the moment are being picked up on the night, so there ought to be time for a toxicology report, also I don't think that 24 hour timeframe is necessarily correct.

You would think that after 20 years of this story we might be able to find a few cases where GHB etc was detected, by chance a routine stop and search might've found somone with a bottle of the stuff and maybe a syringe or some other damning evidence.




You know how it works, the rumours start somewhere, maybe with a genuine case, they spread to twitter then get picked up in the national press, a feedback loop forms with every press story generating more activity on twitter and every twitter post starting another press story.

Soon enough everyone knows hundreds of people who it's happened to, they're convinced that it's going on in every bar and club across the country and once that happens every girl who's had one too many vodkas thinks she's had her drink spiked or imagines she's been injected.

My 2p: to the extent that it does happen it's far more likely to be an extra shot of vodka slipped into a drink bought for a friend rather than anything more direct such as GHB.
 
Many of the victims of serial rapist Reynhard Sinaga did not even know they had been assaulted.—

Most of his victims did not report anything to the police because they were either unaware or in denial that anything had happened


Two men arrested on suspicion of spiking by injection and in drinks -​

The Independent 2 days ago

Two men have been arrested in connection with a spate of reports of drug spiking involving needles in Nottingham. - A separate incident reported in the Guardian 22 October.

Too many people like Lost Cause in denial quick to reject any evidence that this is a problem whilst being equally unable to provide any evidence that it’s just a load of hysterical woman trying to cover up for having had too much to drink. Of course they and all their friends must be lying when they claim to only have had one or two drinks.
 
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Many of the victims of serial rapist Reynhard Sinaga did not even know they had been assaulted.—

Congratulations, some actual evidence for a change: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynhard_Sinaga

Although in this case I don't think it's really what people have in mind, and perhaps serves as a reminder that it's not always what's at the forefront of public attention that you need to be worried about.


Two men arrested on suspicion of spiking by injection and in drinks -​

The Independent 2 days ago

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nightclubs-injection-spiking-men-arrested-b1949980.html

Notice the key word, "suspicion", let me know if/when that gets upgraded to charged.


Too many people like Lost Cause in denial quick to reject any evidence that this is a problem whilst being equally unable to provide any evidence that it’s just a load of hysterical woman trying to cover up for having had too much to drink. Of course they and all their friends must be lying when they claim to only have had one or two drinks.

How does one prove a negative?

And to repeat, where are the actual proven cases?
 
As I’ve got older I’ve increasingly despaired at the male’s capacity to be perverted and seek sexual gratification from vulnerable people.
This includes Catholic priests, grooming gangs (which based on the convictions reported are mainly Muslims), TV celebrities, football coaches, police officers, scout leaders, driving instructors, prison wardens, relatives, school teachers, family friends etc etc.

By no means is it all priests or all Muslims or all school teachers or all police. But unfortunately it means trust is broken and suspicion is increased and I almost feel like I will be viewed as a pervert if I see a little baby or toddler and admire how beautiful they are. As a parent who’s children have grown into adults it’s nostalgic to see other little kids as it brings back memories of their childhood and how wonderful it was to raise children. But look at them and smile nowadays and you’re potentially going to be met with mistrust and wariness. Having said that, I wouldn’t blame a parent for seeing any male as a potential peadophile.

Sadly I do believe it’s better for parents to err on the side of caution than blindly have faith that they can place their children with a male and turn their backs and everything will be ok. It’s not worth the risk.

Stories about spiking serve to remind us, if needed, that the world is a dark place and there are many sick and twisted sad inadequate pathetic excuses for a human being who are circulating amongst us.

As well as those that directly attack/assault, there’s so many others who view illegal images and/or groom children online by pretending to be a youngster themselves. The police can’t keep up with this wide scale criminality so they risk assess and go after those in a position of responsibility such as a school teacher. But far too many get away with it. That’s why we’ve seen an increase in vigilante groups who entrap lone wolf internet groomers. These vigilantes are fantastic but it’s a sad indictment that they’re needed.

With regards to spiking and other similar perverted activity, we need to be incredibly tough. There will always be those will to try this on, but there’ll be far less if we adopt a strict minimum prison sentence of at least 5 years. We need to speak loud and clear that it won’t be tolerated. Unfortunately we’ve slept walked into a passive form of tolerance. By the way, before I’m called right wing again for having a strong view on a subject, you should consider that my proposal of a 5 year minimum sentence isn’t what I’d actually prefer. What I’d prefer is for these freaks to be found and wiped from the face of the earth. That’s unfortunately not feasible and I wouldn’t encourage any illegal vigilantism but if this spiking was done to my daughters then a 5 year term would only go some way to me feeling that justice had prevailed.
 
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Seems to be about par for the course for these sort of cases, no direct evidence, she went out clubbing and can't remember anything, a mark on her leg that could be a needle, or could be something else entirely, seems to have been able to find her way home.

I am left wondering what advantage there is to someone randomly spiking a person in a club like this?

Anyway I'm done here, we get this story every year for at least the last 20 years, if you think this is anything new or different than I'm not going to change your mind.
 
Seems to be about par for the course for these sort of cases, no direct evidence, she went out clubbing and can't remember anything, a mark on her leg that could be a needle, or could be something else entirely, seems to have been able to find her way home.

I am left wondering what advantage there is to someone randomly spiking a person in a club like this?

Anyway I'm done here, we get this story every year for at least the last 20 years, if you think this is anything new or different than I'm not going to change your mind.
So you think that we should ignore all of the anecdotal evidence because you personally feel that it doesn't happen. What is your expertise in this area, if you don't mind me asking? The video above and evidence in it is perfectly consistent with the young woman getting spiked.
I don't know if you watched the whole of the video but at the end there was some quite startling information. Another expert in the field (apart from yourself of course) said that in a survey of 23,000 people, 11% of students thought that they had been a victim of spiking in this academic term. 11% in this academic term alone. If this figure is even within one order of magnitude of being correct then it suggests that we do actually have a major problem.
 
Genuine question, Hazi - as I asked earlier, did they feel the jab as it occurred? If not, how did they determine they had been injected?
I’m not doubting, btw, just trying to get my head round how this is going on.
Jabbed in the leg walking along and yes felt it and soon went under from the effects
 
Seems to be about par for the course for these sort of cases, no direct evidence, she went out clubbing and can't remember anything, a mark on her leg that could be a needle, or could be something else entirely, seems to have been able to find her way home.

I am left wondering what advantage there is to someone randomly spiking a person in a club like this?

Anyway I'm done here, we get this story every year for at least the last 20 years, if you think this is anything new or different than I'm not going to change your mind.
You seem very sceptical that she can’t remember anything - just like the victims of Sinaga. This isn’t about people putting a vodka in someone’s drink which is sinister enough, it’s about drinks being spiked or bodies being injected with mind altering drugs.
As for motive they don’t need one, they’re weirdos, probably spend most of their time on weird websites and get a kick out of just standing back and watching the end result.
 
A bit more evidence from GMP 22/10/21

man has been jailed for spiking a woman's drink with cocaine in a Manchester nightclub and then sexually assaulting her.

Sean Howarth (31/10/1989), of Newsome Road, Huddersfield, also emptied the woman's bank account while she was unconscious in what detectives describe as the 'the premeditated violation of a young woman'.
 
 
Seems to be about par for the course for these sort of cases, no direct evidence, she went out clubbing and can't remember anything, a mark on her leg that could be a needle, or could be something else entirely, seems to have been able to find her way home.

I am left wondering what advantage there is to someone randomly spiking a person in a club like this?

Anyway I'm done here, we get this story every year for at least the last 20 years, if you think this is anything new or different than I'm not going to change your mind.
I'm struggling to understand why you would want to deny this is a genuine issue in the face of what appears to be overwhelming evidence from a range of sources in different areas of the UK. I've spoken to my daughter about this over the last couple of days and her friend was spiked with GHB (confirmed by a test) at Leeds Festival this year. There was no rhyme or reason for the attack...They just noticed that their friend was suddenly and unexpectedly non-compos-mentis and took her to the on-site medics (lucky for her that she had decent friends around her at the time)...

Also happened to an older female I know in Blackpool Town Centre....
 
I'm struggling to understand why you would want to deny this is a genuine issue in the face of what appears to be overwhelming evidence from a range of sources in different areas of the UK. I've spoken to my daughter about this over the last couple of days and her friend was spiked with GHB (confirmed by a test) at Leeds Festival this year. There was no rhyme or reason for the attack...They just noticed that their friend was suddenly and unexpectedly non-compos-mentis and took her to the on-site medics (lucky for her that she had decent friends around her at the time)...

Also happened to an older female I know in Blackpool Town Centre....
My lad believes he was spiked at uni about 6 years ago at Belfast Queens, in the union bar.
He’s a bit of a drinker but swears he should have been within his limit. His mate went down first, ambulance carted him off, then my lad went down about 15 minutes later. Now my lad looks mean, but is actually soft as, never had a fight in his life, but fought against the emergency services and ended up in court. He swears it was because he knew something bad was happening, and as an ex-squaddie I’d filled his head with horror stories of Northern Ireland.
They took him straight to nick, and by the time he was released it was too late for a test, according to the hospital.
He’s big and ugly, so if he’s right they weren’t after his body!
 
I’m not deflecting blame, but a good start to combatting this would be for bars and clubs to respect their licenses and stop serving people who are already minging.
As a cabbie, we do an annual lecture from the cops, telling us we should be keeping an eye out for vulnerable passengers, you wouldn’t believe the amount of unconscious passengers that get poured into our cabs. Often by ‘friends’ that carry them to the cab, give an address, then go back to the bar. Suffice to say I never take someone home, in that state, alone.
 
Interesting little article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-never-happen-Criminologist-casts-doubt.html

It’s an uncomfortable truth, not least for the young women who sincerely believe that they are victims, but it’s entirely possible that there is no epidemic of needle spiking. And that what is taking place is in our heads.

Is it even possible to inject people with date-rape drugs?

But as a medical friend explained when I began to investigate, to drug someone effectively in this way would require a relatively high volume of the substance concerned.

This would require a large syringe with a large needle, which would then need to be under someone’s skin for long enough – at least 15 seconds – to dispense enough of the drug to make a difference.

Has drink spiking, too, been exaggerated?

A 2012 study by doctors at Wrexham Maelor Hospital found something intriguing when they examined women who believed they had been drugged.

Most of them, they established, had been rendered helpless not by ‘date-rape’ substances, but by binge drinking.
 
Interesting little article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-never-happen-Criminologist-casts-doubt.html

It’s an uncomfortable truth, not least for the young women who sincerely believe that they are victims, but it’s entirely possible that there is no epidemic of needle spiking. And that what is taking place is in our heads.

Is it even possible to inject people with date-rape drugs?

But as a medical friend explained when I began to investigate, to drug someone effectively in this way would require a relatively high volume of the substance concerned.

This would require a large syringe with a large needle, which would then need to be under someone’s skin for long enough – at least 15 seconds – to dispense enough of the drug to make a difference.

Has drink spiking, too, been exaggerated?

A 2012 study by doctors at Wrexham Maelor Hospital found something intriguing when they examined women who believed they had been drugged.

Most of them, they established, had been rendered helpless not by ‘date-rape’ substances, but by binge drinking.
Oh god. Lost and the Daily Mail together.

And the “silly girls are just getting over excited and imagining it” argument that was popular in the 1960s.

Smacks of “getting your defence in early”.

Awaits accusation of senior Tory accused of spiking.
 
Someone appears to protest too much on this issue…. I’m beginning to wonder if ‘Mr Tickle’ has returned under a different guise.
 
From memory Mr Tickle was someone else entirely different.

But it is odd that someone decided to resurrect a thread that had effectively gone to sleep.

I happened to find the article in the Mail and decided to share it.

What I found particularly interesting was the suggestion that "needle spiking" is virtually impossible from a techincal point of view, unless the victim is in a coma already.

Anyway, as I've said before, we get this story every year, so I've bookmarked this thread and I'll bring it back next year to save everyone the trouble of starting a new thread.
 
I happened to find the article in the Mail and decided to share it.

What I found particularly interesting was the suggestion that "needle spiking" is virtually impossible from a techincal point of view, unless the victim is in a coma already.

Anyway, as I've said before, we get this story every year, so I've bookmarked this thread and I'll bring it back next year to save everyone the trouble of starting a new thread.
You’ve obviously been spiked 😬
 
I happened to find the article in the Mail and decided to share it.

What I found particularly interesting was the suggestion that "needle spiking" is virtually impossible from a techincal point of view, unless the victim is in a coma already.

Anyway, as I've said before, we get this story every year, so I've bookmarked this thread and I'll bring it back next year to save everyone the trouble of starting a new thread.
Really? What was the name of that person spiked by Bulgarian intelligence back in the 1970s?

He died.

Edit to add - Georgi Markov.
 
I happened to find the article in the Mail and decided to share it.

What I found particularly interesting was the suggestion that "needle spiking" is virtually impossible from a techincal point of view, unless the victim is in a coma already.

Anyway, as I've said before, we get this story every year, so I've bookmarked this thread and I'll bring it back next year to save everyone the trouble of starting a new thread.
“Virtually Impossible from a technical perspective”

Where’s your evidence for this, given you have no medical expertise yourself?

Medical experts have suggested that it is perfectly plausible that a small needle could easily penetrate the upper leg or arm without the victim being aware…

Im not sure whether your medical expert in the Daily Mail has noticed, but young girls in nightclubs aren’t typically dressed in hazmat suits..

Most of these incidents tend to be drink tampering in any case…
 
Picture the scene, lost seasider and daughter one Friday night.

Lost, "not going out tonight love?"
D, "No Dad I'm worried about getting my drink spiked"
Lost, "Oh, you dafty that doesn't happen get out and have a great time"

Later that night

"Hello Mr Lost this is BVH, we have your daughter in A&E it appears that she's had her drink spiked"
Lost, "Don't be daft it doesn't happen, are you sure?"
 
Where’s your evidence for this, given you have no medical expertise yourself?

It's in the article, I even copied/pasted it into my post.

You either need a large needle and substantial amount of the substance, which is going to be painful and require about 15 seconds of co-operation from the victim, or some fairly high end chemistry knowledge.
 
It's in the article, I even copied/pasted it into my post.

You either need a large needle and substantial amount of the substance, which is going to be painful and require about 15 seconds of co-operation from the victim, or some fairly high end chemistry knowledge.
Tab of acid 🤓
 
It's in the article, I even copied/pasted it into my post.

You either need a large needle and substantial amount of the substance, which is going to be painful and require about 15 seconds of co-operation from the victim, or some fairly high end chemistry knowledge.
That’s just the opinion of one individual referred to as “A medical friend”…

Yet other Medical Experts including a former anaesthetist have confirmed that they believe it possible.
 
As I’ve got older I’ve increasingly despaired at the male’s capacity to be perverted and seek sexual gratification from vulnerable people.
This includes Catholic priests, grooming gangs (which based on the convictions reported are mainly Muslims), TV celebrities, football coaches, police officers, scout leaders, driving instructors, prison wardens, relatives, school teachers, family friends etc etc.

By no means is it all priests or all Muslims or all school teachers or all police. But unfortunately it means trust is broken and suspicion is increased and I almost feel like I will be viewed as a pervert if I see a little baby or toddler and admire how beautiful they are. As a parent who’s children have grown into adults it’s nostalgic to see other little kids as it brings back memories of their childhood and how wonderful it was to raise children. But look at them and smile nowadays and you’re potentially going to be met with mistrust and wariness. Having said that, I wouldn’t blame a parent for seeing any male as a potential peadophile.

Sadly I do believe it’s better for parents to err on the side of caution than blindly have faith that they can place their children with a male and turn their backs and everything will be ok. It’s not worth the risk.

Stories about spiking serve to remind us, if needed, that the world is a dark place and there are many sick and twisted sad inadequate pathetic excuses for a human being who are circulating amongst us.

As well as those that directly attack/assault, there’s so many others who view illegal images and/or groom children online by pretending to be a youngster themselves. The police can’t keep up with this wide scale criminality so they risk assess and go after those in a position of responsibility such as a school teacher. But far too many get away with it. That’s why we’ve seen an increase in vigilante groups who entrap lone wolf internet groomers. These vigilantes are fantastic but it’s a sad indictment that they’re needed.

With regards to spiking and other similar perverted activity, we need to be incredibly tough. There will always be those will to try this on, but there’ll be far less if we adopt a strict minimum prison sentence of at least 5 years. We need to speak loud and clear that it won’t be tolerated. Unfortunately we’ve slept walked into a passive form of tolerance. By the way, before I’m called right wing again for having a strong view on a subject, you should consider that my proposal of a 5 year minimum sentence isn’t what I’d actually prefer. What I’d prefer is for these freaks to be found and wiped from the face of the earth. That’s unfortunately not feasible and I wouldn’t encourage any illegal vigilantism but if this spiking was done to my daughters then a 5 year term would only go some way to me feeling that justice had prevailed.
I know what you mean, but perverts have always been around. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley?
 
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