The Covid passport

[TwelveAngryMen]

A sign of things to come do we think ?
Should burst the bubble of the anti-vaxxers if nothing else

Denmark has become one of the first countries in the world to set out concrete plans for an electronic “corona passport” that could allow those who have been vaccinated to travel overseas.

From the end of February Danish residents will be able to prove that they have been inoculated by printing a certificate from a government website.

Over the next three to four months the authorities also plan to release a smartphone app that people can show at passport checks to confirm that they have been immunised, subject to approval from the country’s public health agency.

The scheme is particularly intended to open up business travel. Danish business groups said they hoped the passports would also permit bars, restaurants and even musical festivals to resume trading.

Some European countries have already begun working on some form of immunity pass. Late last year both Hungary and Iceland introduced schemes under which people who can demonstrate that they have overcome Covid-19 gain access to certain freedoms, such as exemption from facemask rules.

Other EU member states, including Spain, Greece, Cyprus and Belgium, have expressed interest in a similar passport based on vaccines. Poland announced three weeks ago that those who had received their second shot would be able to prove it through a QR code on their smartphones.

 

[Davepick]

Seems like a plan.
This Govt would probably make one pay to get one?
I suppose the one drawback might be that some countries might not accept the Passport.
However, seeing as we won't be travelling outside the EU it would be OK for us.
Or should I have said 'into the EU'?

 

[BlackpoolsFinest]

There should be no obligation for anyone to have the vaccine, people should be free to make their own choice......

Watch them soon change their minds though when they need to have the jab to go to the boozer, a restaurant, the football or on a plane for a week in the sun.
They won't be paying too much attention to the social media conspiracy theories then.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I'm afraid that this type of thing will only serve to reinforce the Anti-Vaxxer beliefs and to a certain extent it does make me start to question whether there is a hidden agenda at play.

This really concerns me and it ought to concern all of us... It's entering into David Icke territory.

 

[Ruperthoop]

I do not think there would be many anti-vaxxers anyway. People know what the score is and want to take responsibility. They want to be safe and get on with their lives. Sadly there are one or two Corbyns. I wonder if some are just fearful of the intrusive nature of the vaccines which is clearly understandable.

 

[Towerpower99]

I was queueing for my jab today outside my doctors....there was a woman about 10 feet away waiting for her friend to come out of the Chemist next door.....anyway she starts speaking to her approaching friend " look at this lot.....it's all a load of rubbish." etc etc....i then realised she used to be a customer in my business before i sold up and retired....she was thick as sh*t then and time hasn't improved her......far more like her out their than you think....my next door neighbour is another.

 

[Threepeaksphil]

I had mine yesterday and it's a no brainer unless of course your President Macron who is against a British Vaccine even though the E U have eventually approved it for ALL adults!! He doesn't think it works for over 65's so I wonder if Mrs Macron(aged 67) has had the injection? Also I hear that 50% of Americans would not have the jab even if its free: Amazing

 

[Wizaard]

Seems a lot more secure than knocking up your own certificate on a PowerPoint.

If it enables travel in safety then why not?

 

[Goose]

I was queueing for my jab today outside my doctors....there was a woman about 10 feet away waiting for her friend to come out of the Chemist next door.....anyway she starts speaking to her approaching friend " look at this lot.....it's all a load of rubbish." etc etc....i then realised she used to be a customer in my business before i sold up and retired....she was thick as sh*t then and time hasn't improved her......far more like her out their than you think....my next door neighbour is another.

You have mentioned your neighbours previously Towerpower, I take it you don’t get on

 

[Towerpower99]

You have mentioned your neighbours previously Towerpower, I take it you don’t get on

No....No we don't......my wife is a Manager at a Intermediate care unit and has dealt with covid and deaths for the last year....so no we don't have any time for numpties.

 

[todayistheday]

You too young to retire Towerpower. Do you keep yourself busy.

 

[PR3BFC]

How would it work though if you haven’t been offered the vaccine due to your age/criteria being well down the list I.e not vulnerable and under 40 say?

Say they do go down the route of a vaccine passport and wanting folk to have it to gain entries to places listed above, if you haven’t been offered it at the stage (I.e this summer) then how would that work?

 

[Towerpower99]

You too young to retire Towerpower. Do you keep yourself busy.

Bloody Hell Today.......i only had my jab at 1 o'clock today and the intelligence gathering has already started.....Give me a chance to get my Tin Foil hat on

 

[Bisphamtang]

A sign of things to come do we think ?
Should burst the bubble of the anti-vaxxers if nothing else

Denmark has become one of the first countries in the world to set out concrete plans for an electronic “corona passport” that could allow those who have been vaccinated to travel overseas.

From the end of February Danish residents will be able to prove that they have been inoculated by printing a certificate from a government website.

Over the next three to four months the authorities also plan to release a smartphone app that people can show at passport checks to confirm that they have been immunised, subject to approval from the country’s public health agency.

The scheme is particularly intended to open up business travel. Danish business groups said they hoped the passports would also permit bars, restaurants and even musical festivals to resume trading.

Some European countries have already begun working on some form of immunity pass. Late last year both Hungary and Iceland introduced schemes under which people who can demonstrate that they have overcome Covid-19 gain access to certain freedoms, such as exemption from facemask rules.

Other EU member states, including Spain, Greece, Cyprus and Belgium, have expressed interest in a similar passport based on vaccines. Poland announced three weeks ago that those who had received their second shot would be able to prove it through a QR code on their smartphones.

Good idea TAM, would speed up getting back to normal .Sure airlines, travel agents,pubs,concert organisers etc. would help with set up

As for antivaxers, covid deniers they can get on with living in the exclusion zone

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

I'm afraid that this type of thing will only serve to reinforce the Anti-Vaxxer beliefs and to a certain extent it does make me start to question whether there is a hidden agenda at play.

This really concerns me and it ought to concern all of us... It's entering into David Icke territory.

Your concerns seemed to be shared in Tanzania

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Your concerns seemed to be shared in Tanzania

Yet those aren't "My Concerns"?

 

[Curryman]

I had my Pfizer jab at 15.40 today. No side effects haven't started growing a second head and haven't set any scanners off. But I'm uncertain that I have spelled Pfizer krektlee.

 

[Sooty59]

My mate who has some medical issues had his today & seems ok. I've been tracking him ever since.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

I'm afraid that this type of thing will only serve to reinforce the Anti-Vaxxer beliefs and to a certain extent it does make me start to question whether there is a hidden agenda at play.

This really concerns me and it ought to concern all of us... It's entering into David Icke territory.

Is it fuckery, the anti vaxxers are the Icke worshiping lizard people believing ILLUMINATI paranoid lunatics.

Just get the jab, you've never had freedom of choice, so one more little thing won't make any difference.

 

[seasideone]

How would it work though if you haven’t been offered the vaccine due to your age/criteria being well down the list I.e not vulnerable and under 40 say?

Say they do go down the route of a vaccine passport and wanting folk to have it to gain entries to places listed above, if you haven’t been offered it at the stage (I.e this summer) then how would that work?

Personally (after thinking it through) I am all for restricting people who choose not to have the jab BUT you can’t restrict anyone who has not been offered the jab or can’t have it for medical reasons.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Is it fuckery, the anti vaxxers are the Icke worshiping lizard people believing ILLUMINATI paranoid lunatics.

Just get the jab, you've never had freedom of choice, so one more little thing won't make any difference.

Personally I’ve no issue with the jab, but “Covid Passports”? Health based discrimination?

I’m afraid that’s starting to enter into “Go Fuck Yourself” territory.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Personally I’ve no issue with the jab, but “Covid Passports”? Health based discrimination?

I’m afraid that’s starting to enter into “Go Fuck Yourself” territory.

For once, you may want to consider that the issue isn't about you and what you perceive to be your freedoms. It is not 'David Icke' territory (whatever that means), it is just another responsibility that we owe to the wider society that gives us our freedoms, a minor inconvenience that is a courtesy to our fellow citizens.
Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indiscriminately.
As discussed before, I don't think that the government will be involved in this sort of thing other than to provide a verifiable means of showing that a person has been vaccinated. And they will probably ban entry to the country for unvaccinated foreign nationals or force the unvaxxed to quarantine at their own expense. Beyond that I expect it will be the market that decides, and many businesses may well decide to only admit the vaccinated, which is within their rights. Airlines will enforce this as a condition of carriage (Ryanair just had an advert cancelled called 'jab and go' - yes I know). Likewise other venues. The justification will be to protect the health of the clientele and staff.
For most of us this will not present a problem. As we have discussed many times, along with your rights come responsibilities to others.

 

[basilrobbie]

For once, you may want to consider that the issue isn't about you and what you perceive to be your freedoms. It is not 'David Icke' territory (whatever that means), it is just another responsibility that we owe to the wider society that gives us our freedoms, a minor inconvenience that is a courtesy to our fellow citizens.
Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indiscriminately.
As discussed before, I don't think that the government will be involved in this sort of thing other than to provide a verifiable means of showing that a person has been vaccinated. And they will probably ban entry to the country for unvaccinated foreign nationals or force the unvaxxed to quarantine at their own expense. Beyond that I expect it will be the market that decides, and many businesses may well decide to only admit the vaccinated, which is within their rights. Airlines will enforce this as a condition of carriage (Ryanair just had an advert cancelled called 'jab and go' - yes I know). Likewise other venues. The justification will be to protect the health of the clientele and staff.
For most of us this will not present a problem. As we have discussed many times, along with your rights come responsibilities to others.

I agree with all of that. And if Biff had a financial stake in one of these businesses that are desperate to re-establish themselves, I suspect he would have a very different attitude.

I still think we can bring him around if we promise the passport will be blue, and capable of standing to attention when the airport plays the National Anthem.

 

[Wizzerboy]

I agree with all of that. And if Biff had a financial stake in one of these businesses that are desperate to re-establish themselves, I suspect he would have a very different attitude.

I still think we can bring him around if we promise the passport will be blue, and capable of standing to attention when the airport plays the National Anthem.

Why even use that second paragraph?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

For once, you may want to consider that the issue isn't about you and what you perceive to be your freedoms. It is not 'David Icke' territory (whatever that means), it is just another responsibility that we owe to the wider society that gives us our freedoms, a minor inconvenience that is a courtesy to our fellow citizens.
Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indiscriminately.
As discussed before, I don't think that the government will be involved in this sort of thing other than to provide a verifiable means of showing that a person has been vaccinated. And they will probably ban entry to the country for unvaccinated foreign nationals or force the unvaxxed to quarantine at their own expense. Beyond that I expect it will be the market that decides, and many businesses may well decide to only admit the vaccinated, which is within their rights. Airlines will enforce this as a condition of carriage (Ryanair just had an advert cancelled called 'jab and go' - yes I know). Likewise other venues. The justification will be to protect the health of the clientele and staff.
For most of us this will not present a problem. As we have discussed many times, along with your rights come responsibilities to others.

"For Once"
Seriously, where do you get off by opening up your statement like that? We've had a number of debates on here... The last one you ended up apologising to me because you had essentially accused me of all sorts of nonsense, such as 'putting the public at risk' simply for expressing a fairly innocuous opinion on a forum... Now you are trying to imply that I never consider anyone but myself... If we are going to have a discussion...Great... But let's at least try to be half reasonable about it hey?

For the record, my concerns here are for us, as a society in general, for people who (unlike myself) may be negatively affected by vaccine passports and for the direction of travel that this is taking us all in, IMHO, unecessarily.

"percieve to be your freedoms"
I don't percieve anything, these are freedoms that we all enjoy as a result of the effort, labour and spilled blood of generations of people like us. The gradual erosion of personal freedoms is always done under the guise of "Keeping us safe", you'd do well to open your eyes to that fact.

"minor inconvenience"
The implementation of wide reaching and likely permanent measures to demonstrate compliance with specified health impositions is not a minor inconvenience it's a massive imposition on all of us and it is something we ought to collectively stand up against and not wander blindly into because we are a bit scared.

"Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indescriminately"

No it isn't... It's about control and erosion of freedom.

We have coped with all manner of infectious diseases over the years along with all manner of other threats to our lives. On occasion, temporary measures may be necessary to deal with the immediate threat (and I have no issue with that whatsoever), but they are temporary. Vaccination is clearly a way out of this and we have a first rate health system that is quickly administering and recording the vaccination process for all of us..... The vaccinations themselves (and NOT a system of that encourages and promotes discrimination and enforcement) are what will help to stop the spread of the disease.

We didn't require 'Vaccine Passports' for TB, Tetanus, MMR etc...

 

[spudgun]

For once, you may want to consider that the issue isn't about you and what you perceive to be your freedoms. It is not 'David Icke' territory (whatever that means), it is just another responsibility that we owe to the wider society that gives us our freedoms, a minor inconvenience that is a courtesy to our fellow citizens.
Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indiscriminately.
As discussed before, I don't think that the government will be involved in this sort of thing other than to provide a verifiable means of showing that a person has been vaccinated. And they will probably ban entry to the country for unvaccinated foreign nationals or force the unvaxxed to quarantine at their own expense. Beyond that I expect it will be the market that decides, and many businesses may well decide to only admit the vaccinated, which is within their rights. Airlines will enforce this as a condition of carriage (Ryanair just had an advert cancelled called 'jab and go' - yes I know). Likewise other venues. The justification will be to protect the health of the clientele and staff.
For most of us this will not present a problem. As we have discussed many times, along with your rights come responsibilities to others.

Yep, good post.

Now is the time to be practical and park ideological baggage for a while.

If it serves the greater good then I am cautiously in favour of a `Covid passport`...

 

[gjr69]

I'm afraid that this type of thing will only serve to reinforce the Anti-Vaxxer beliefs and to a certain extent it does make me start to question whether there is a hidden agenda at play.

This really concerns me and it ought to concern all of us... It's entering into David Icke territory.

Some people just like to stay fit and healthy and put their faith in their own immune system rather than receive a state sanctioned annual jab.
Because it will be annual, as it's not a lifetime vaccine.
Doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxer, some of us just dont place 100% faith in the government and don't automatically reach for pharmaceutical products for every illness.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

"For Once"
Seriously, where do you get off by opening up your statement like that? We've had a number of debates on here... The last one you ended up apologising to me because you had essentially accused me of all sorts of nonsense, such as 'putting the public at risk' simply for expressing a fairly innocuous opinion on a forum... Now you are trying to imply that I never consider anyone but myself... If we are going to have a discussion...Great... But let's at least try to be half reasonable about it hey?

For the record, my concerns here are for us, as a society in general, for people who (unlike myself) may be negatively affected by vaccine passports and for the direction of travel that this is taking us all in, IMHO, unecessarily.

"percieve to be your freedoms"
I don't percieve anything, these are freedoms that we all enjoy as a result of the effort, labour and spilled blood of generations of people like us. The gradual erosion of personal freedoms is always done under the guise of "Keeping us safe", you'd do well to open your eyes to that fact.

"minor inconvenience"
The implementation of wide reaching and likely permanent measures to demonstrate compliance with specified health impositions is not a minor inconvenience it's a massive imposition on all of us and it is something we ought to collectively stand up against and not wander blindly into because we are a bit scared.

"Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indescriminately"

No it isn't... It's about control and erosion of freedom.

We have coped with all manner of infectious diseases over the years along with all manner of other threats to our lives. On occasion, temporary measures may be necessary to deal with the immediate threat (and I have no issue with that whatsoever), but they are temporary. Vaccination is clearly a way out of this and we have a first rate health system that is quickly administering and recording the vaccination process for all of us..... The vaccinations themselves (and NOT a system of that encourages and promotes discrimination and enforcement) are what will help to stop the spread of the disease.

We didn't require 'Vaccine Passports' for TB, Tetanus, MMR etc...

You do sound like you have entered David Icke territory. You seem to be unable to view this on any basis other than the rights of the individual and take a rather paranoid view of what this all means. None of this would be happening if there wasn't a deadly disease that has already killed over 100,000 of our fellow citizens prevalent in our population. Mass vaccination is the way back to normality, it is actually the way that our rights as individuals and as a society can be restored. When we have discussed this before you have failed to give any rational reason why someone should not be vaccinated and the truth is that there are no real scientific, moral or ethical reasons why they shouldn't. However, nobody has said that anybody will be forced to be vaccinated, nobody on here has advocated that. And now that we have discovered that at least one of the vaccines confers immunity on the majority of people who have it, there are even more compelling reasons for people to be vaccinated (you may remember that you have continually argued that this was unlikely). Private businesses can take whatever decisions they want if they operate within the law because they have freedoms too. It's called market forces, something that I did think that you were in favour of.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

You do sound like you have entered David Icke territory. You seem to be unable to view this on any basis other than the rights of the individual and take a rather paranoid view of what this all means. None of this would be happening if there wasn't a deadly disease that has already killed over 100,000 of our fellow citizens prevalent in our population. Mass vaccination is the way back to normality, it is actually the way that our rights as individuals and as a society can be restored. When we have discussed this before you have failed to give any rational reason why someone should not be vaccinated and the truth is that there are no real scientific, moral or ethical reasons why they shouldn't. However, nobody has said that anybody will be forced to be vaccinated, nobody on here has advocated that. And now that we have discovered that at least one of the vaccines confers immunity on the majority of people who have it, there are even more compelling reasons for people to be vaccinated (you may remember that you have continually argued that this was unlikely). Private businesses can take whatever decisions they want if they operate within the law because they have freedoms too. It's called market forces, something that I did think that you were in favour of.

No I haven't entered David Icke territory and nor an I taking a paranoid view of anything.

I haven't suggested that mass vaccination isn't the way back to normality - perhaps you would read what I actually wrote and clarify that for yourself, because this isn't the first time you've completely misrepresented my opinion.

There is no reason for me to give any rational reason why someone should not be vaccinated, because I do not agree with most of them. However the fact that I do not agree, does not mean that I don't recognise their right to make their own personal informed choice. You might, however wish to read THIS and consider that these decisions are not necessarily as straightforward for everyone as you might expect. Of course there are a whole range of other individuals who may not be able to have the vaccine for medical reasons.

And no, I don't agree with a move towards discrimination, whether that is imposed by Private Business or Public Services, based around vaccine status. I think it is a slippery slope and that individual vaccine status should remain strictly private and confidential.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

No I haven't entered David Icke territory and nor an I taking a paranoid view of anything.

I haven't suggested that mass vaccination isn't the way back to normality - perhaps you would read what I actually wrote and clarify that for yourself, because this isn't the first time you've completely misrepresented my opinion.

There is no reason for me to give any rational reason why someone should not be vaccinated, because I do not agree with most of them. However the fact that I do not agree, does not mean that I don't recognise their right to make their own personal informed choice. You might, however wish to read THIS and consider that these decisions are not necessarily as straightforward for everyone as you might expect. Of course there are a whole range of other individuals who may not be able to have the vaccine for medical reasons.

And no, I don't agree with a move towards discrimination, whether that is imposed by Private Business or Public Services, based around vaccine status. I think it is a slippery slope and that individual vaccine status should remain strictly private and confidential.

Regarding the link, a medical exemption is already mooted.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

"For Once"
Seriously, where do you get off by opening up your statement like that? We've had a number of debates on here... The last one you ended up apologising to me because you had essentially accused me of all sorts of nonsense, such as 'putting the public at risk' simply for expressing a fairly innocuous opinion on a forum... Now you are trying to imply that I never consider anyone but myself... If we are going to have a discussion...Great... But let's at least try to be half reasonable about it hey?

For the record, my concerns here are for us, as a society in general, for people who (unlike myself) may be negatively affected by vaccine passports and for the direction of travel that this is taking us all in, IMHO, unecessarily.

"percieve to be your freedoms"
I don't percieve anything, these are freedoms that we all enjoy as a result of the effort, labour and spilled blood of generations of people like us. The gradual erosion of personal freedoms is always done under the guise of "Keeping us safe", you'd do well to open your eyes to that fact.

"minor inconvenience"
The implementation of wide reaching and likely permanent measures to demonstrate compliance with specified health impositions is not a minor inconvenience it's a massive imposition on all of us and it is something we ought to collectively stand up against and not wander blindly into because we are a bit scared.

"Essentially it's about stopping the spread of a disease that kills indescriminately"

No it isn't... It's about control and erosion of freedom.

We have coped with all manner of infectious diseases over the years along with all manner of other threats to our lives. On occasion, temporary measures may be necessary to deal with the immediate threat (and I have no issue with that whatsoever), but they are temporary. Vaccination is clearly a way out of this and we have a first rate health system that is quickly administering and recording the vaccination process for all of us..... The vaccinations themselves (and NOT a system of that encourages and promotes discrimination and enforcement) are what will help to stop the spread of the disease.

We didn't require 'Vaccine Passports' for TB, Tetanus, MMR etc...

Personal freedoms always have limits, we all have to pay tax for example.

Like I said, it's a myth.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

No I haven't entered David Icke territory and nor an I taking a paranoid view of anything.

I haven't suggested that mass vaccination isn't the way back to normality - perhaps you would read what I actually wrote and clarify that for yourself, because this isn't the first time you've completely misrepresented my opinion.

There is no reason for me to give any rational reason why someone should not be vaccinated, because I do not agree with most of them. However the fact that I do not agree, does not mean that I don't recognise their right to make their own personal informed choice. You might, however wish to read THIS and consider that these decisions are not necessarily as straightforward for everyone as you might expect. Of course there are a whole range of other individuals who may not be able to have the vaccine for medical reasons.

And no, I don't agree with a move towards discrimination, whether that is imposed by Private Business or Public Services, based around vaccine status. I think it is a slippery slope and that individual vaccine status should remain strictly private and confidential.

What you can't seem to grasp is that someone else's freedom not to vaccinate can, in this case, have an effect everybody else's freedom. For instance, they may unwittingly pass on a deadly disease to someone who cannot be vaccinated that ends up killing them or putting them in hospital (for instance a pregnant woman). If a significant proportion of the population refused to be vaccinated we would be stuck in a lockdown cycle indefinitely because the pressure on the NHS would never cease. That is why it is reasonable to deny those people some freedoms if they exercise their freedom of choice not to be vaccinated. You don't seem to be able to grasp that there must be limits to personal freedom when they start to impinge on the personal freedoms of others.
Anyway I'm out. This will play out in the next few months and hopefully we will get back to something like normal soon enough. At the very least, I expect that you will have to provide vaccination status to travel abroad as happens in some cases already. I will not be surprised to see this happening in other situations as well.

 

[Matesrates]

Can I get a tangerine one?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Personal freedoms always have limits, we all have to pay tax for example.

Like I said, it's a myth.

It's not really a myth though at all is it....

And whilst I accept there may be limits... There's not actually any need or requirement for those limits to be exceeded in this particular instance (especially not over the longer term)...

What you can't seem to grasp is that someone else's freedom not to vaccinate can, in this case, have an effect everybody else's freedom. For instance, they may unwittingly pass on a deadly disease to someone who cannot be vaccinated that ends up killing them or putting them in hospital. If a significant proportion of the population refused to be vaccinated we would be stuck in a lockdown cycle indefinitely because the pressure on the NHS would never cease. That is why it is reasonable to deny those people some freedoms if they exercise their freedom of choice not to be vaccinated. You don't seem to be able to grasp that there must be limits to personal freedom when they start to impinge on the personal freedoms of others.
Anyway I'm out. This will play out in the next few months and hopefully we will get back to something like normal soon enough. At the very least, I expect that you will have to provide vaccination status to travel abroad as happens in some cases already. I will not be surprised to see this happening in other situations as well.

No, I can grasp the sitution perfectly well... As I said in my last post, I do not necessarily agree with the some of the choices being made, but I do agree with the right to make those choices (and it seems that most democratic goverments also agree with that right).

I agree with you that ' if a significant proportion of the population refused to be vaccinated' that could present an issue, but I'm not sure that is the case. So to that extent we can likely afford to accomodate the freedom to choose within our society, without any need for draconian measures.

Just to reiterate I don't agree with the right to discriminate and I would maintain that vaccine status should remain private and confidential. That's not to say I might not accept some temprorary measures to deal with what might be considered an acute risk to peoples lives... Evidently we have had to accept a whole range of 'short-term' measures in order to deal with the situation as it is. However, all to often these 'temporary' measures have a habit of becoming permanent.

I would also say that I really don't take much issue with the idea that international travel (something that most people do infrequently) might be subject to certain restrictions.

This for me is more about the idea that as everyday citzens we are forced to engage in frequent digital checks to verify our status to interact with the world in general.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

This for me is more about the idea that as everyday citzens we are forced to engage in frequent digital checks to verify our status to interact with the world in general.

Do you object to the frequent digital checks that we have the means of exchange (money) to pay for the goods and services that we want. Or do you still operate the bartering system in Wales or operate in a cash only way?

 

[Lytham_fy8]

It's not really a myth though at all is it....

And whilst I accept there may be limits... There's not actually any need or requirement for those limits to be exceeded in this particular instance (especially not over the longer term)...



No, I can grasp the sitution perfectly well... As I said in my last post, I do not necessarily agree with the some of the choices being made, but I do agree with the right to make those choices (and it seems that most democratic goverments also agree with that right).

I agree with you that ' if a significant proportion of the population refused to be vaccinated' that could present an issue, but I'm not sure that is the case. So to that extent we can likely afford to accomodate the freedom to choose within our society, without any need for draconian measures.

Just to reiterate I don't agree with the right to discriminate and I would maintain that vaccine status should remain private and confidential. That's not to say I might not accept some temprorary measures to deal with what might be considered an acute risk to peoples lives... Evidently we have had to accept a whole range of 'short-term' measures in order to deal with the situation as it is. However, all to often these 'temporary' measures have a habit of becoming permanent.

I would also say that I really don't take much issue with the idea that international travel (something that most people do infrequently) might be subject to certain restrictions.

This for me is more about the idea that as everyday citzens we are forced to engage in frequent digital checks to verify our status to interact with the world in general.

Yes, it a myth, try not paying any tax.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Do you object to the frequent digital checks that we have the means of exchange (money) to pay for the goods and services that we want. Or do you still operate the bartering system in Wales or operate in a cash only way?

Yes.... I do object to the discriminatory way in which a whole range of digitally processes negatively impact on our lives.

Some trade / bartering systems operate in Wales as I’m sure they do all over the U.K. For example there is a vegetable exchange system in place for growers who contribute.

Yes, it a myth, try not paying any tax.

The fact we are required to pay tax (in certain circumstances) does not mean that we don’t also enjoy a whole range of other freedoms.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

Yes.... I do object to the discriminatory way in which a whole range of digitally processes negatively impact on our lives.

Some trade / bartering systems operate in Wales as I’m sure they do all over the U.K. For example there is a vegetable exchange system in place for growers who contribute.

The fact we are required to pay tax (in certain circumstances) does not mean that we don’t also enjoy a whole range of other freedoms.

So you're just ignoring the example for the sake of your point then?

 

[Surfer69]

A couple of problems with a Vaccine passport is that lots of people can't have it for medical reasons, what do we do with them.
Anyone under 16 can't have it, do they get left at home ?
I think generally its a good idea in the short term, but it's how it's going to be implemented, that's the issue.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

If people want total freedom from all the digital checks of society, then inspiration can be found watching 'New Lives in the Wild' with Ben Fogle. There are still areas of the world where you can fend for yourself just surrounded by basic nature away from CCTV and credit checks.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Yes.... I do object to the discriminatory way in which a whole range of digitally processes negatively impact on our lives.

Some trade / bartering systems operate in Wales as I’m sure they do all over the U.K. For example there is a vegetable exchange system in place for growers who contribute.

The fact we are required to pay tax (in certain circumstances) does not mean that we don’t also enjoy a whole range of other freedoms.

Nice sidestep.
I can only assume that, like almost all of us, you pay for your goods using a digital passport (i.e. a bank card or digital account). I am surprised that you are not up in arms about this fundamental denial of rights, the deep state tracking your activities, the steady erosion of liberties etc, etc. You haven't mentioned it before for some reason.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

Nice sidestep.
I can only assume that, like almost all of us, you pay for your goods using a digital passport (i.e. a bank card or digital account). I am surprised that you are not up in arms about this fundamental denial of rights, the deep state tracking your activities, the steady erosion of liberties etc, etc. You haven't mentioned it before for some reason.

Well he is posting on the internet, using a service provider which has all his details and can track every keystroke for the authorities if required.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

Well he is posting on the internet, using a service provider which has all his details and can track every keystroke for the authorities if required.

Is there an ISP that takes cash?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

So you're just ignoring the example for the sake of your point then?

No...

I’m disagreeing that it negates the point I’m making.

Nice sidestep.
I can only assume that, like almost all of us, you pay for your goods using a digital passport (i.e. a bank card or digital account). I am surprised that you are not up in arms about this fundamental denial of rights, the deep state tracking your activities, the steady erosion of liberties etc, etc. You haven't mentioned it before for some reason.

Sidestep?

You asked a question and in answered it...

I don’t have an issue with paying for goods by card for convenience. I do have an issue with the discriminatory use of that digital data. Not least because digital records are not always accurate or complete.

Well he is posting on the internet, using a service provider which has all his details and can track every keystroke for the authorities if required.

And that means I can’t legitimately object to a system that discriminates based upon vaccination status?

 

[rockontommy]

A couple of problems with a Vaccine passport is that lots of people can't have it for medical reasons, what do we do with them.
Anyone under 16 can't have it, do they get left at home ?
I think generally its a good idea in the short term, but it's how it's going to be implemented, that's the issue.

Yep, the practicalities have not been thought through at all. File under 'middle-aged men who haven't got a ** clue, talking shit about what they'd do if they were in charge'. And people say they aren't missing the pubs being open, fuck me, are you sure?

 

[Lytham_fy8]

No...

I’m disagreeing that it negates the point I’m making.

Sidestep?

You asked a question and in answered it...

I don’t have an issue with paying for goods by card for convenience. I do have an issue with the discriminatory use of that digital data. Not least because digital records are not always accurate or complete.

And that means I can’t legitimately object to a system that discriminates based upon vaccination status?

No, it means you're defending freedoms that don't actually exist.

 

[RUSTY_2_STANDS]

If people want total freedom from all the digital checks of society, then inspiration can be found watching 'New Lives in the Wild' with Ben Fogle. There are still areas of the world where you can fend for yourself just surrounded by basic nature away from CCTV and credit checks.

Why don't you go then?

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

No...

I’m disagreeing that it negates the point I’m making.

Sidestep?

You asked a question and in answered it...

I don’t have an issue with paying for goods by card for convenience. I do have an issue with the discriminatory use of that digital data. Not least because digital records are not always accurate or complete.

And that means I can’t legitimately object to a system that discriminates based upon vaccination status?

It is discriminatory to deny you the right to goods if you do not have the money or credit to pay for them. That is an example of the discriminatory use of data based on you carrying a digital identifier.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

No, it means you're defending freedoms that don't actually exist.

I don't believe that to be factually correct Lytham...

It is discriminatory to deny you the right to goods if you do not have the money or credit to pay for them. That is an example of the discriminatory use of data based on you carrying a digital identifier.

It's not though is it, because as you acknowledge, I have the option to purchase the goods for cash. Further, there is no discrimination on the part of the service provider.... In the example of a credit or debit card there is a seperate agreement in place for the management / advancement of personal funds between the card holder and a third party (bank, buildig society, credit provider) and therefore the limiation of those funds is based upon the terms of that third party arrangement.

 

[fcblackpool]

If your name is not on the passport, you're not coming in.

Simple really.