The Germans

Ruperthoop said:
An achievement to be really proud about. Along with the Israelis the Uk has led the world in the fight against this pandemic.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that Israel were not so quick to support vaccinations in the disputed territories. Opportunity missed to do the right thing if so.
 
Shandy, just a
Shandypants said:
www.channel4.com

FactCheck: Brexit did not speed up UK vaccine authorisation

In fact, the UK regulator used EU law to authorise the jab.
www.channel4.com www.channel4.com
Tory boy pierce is talking bollox as usual. Some of you will believe any old guff
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Shandy, just a couple of points
It’s a fact that Macron and several other EU countries rubbished the Oxford vaccine and rubbished the UK for supposedly cutting corners. It’s a good job we didn’t believe that old guff isn’t it
The second point is that we ARE one of the world leaders in getting the vaccinations done. That’s a fact as well
I’m sorry if the above doesn’t suit your agenda 😉
 
Shandypants said:
www.channel4.com

FactCheck: Brexit did not speed up UK vaccine authorisation

In fact, the UK regulator used EU law to authorise the jab.
www.channel4.com www.channel4.com
Tory boy pierce is talking bollox as usual. Some of you will believe any old guff
Click to expand...

A number of EU countries attempted to negotiate independently but the European Commission under VDL hijacked the procurement following pressure from Macron and his assurances that the EU should also invest in the French vaccine which subsequently failed. Member states were pressured into agreeing a joint procurement programme, which turned out to be literally a fatal error. As it says in the above document "If Britain were still part of the trading bloc, we’d have been under political pressure to be part of that arrangement". More than that, we would have been forced to joint the programme.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Shandy, just a

Shandy, just a couple of points
It’s a fact that Macron and several other EU countries rubbished the Oxford vaccine and rubbished the UK for supposedly cutting corners. It’s a good job we didn’t believe that old guff isn’t it
The second point is that we ARE one of the world leaders in getting the vaccinations done. That’s a fact as well
I’m sorry if the above doesn’t suit your agenda 😉
Click to expand...
I dont know whe the dick comments on this board it's always the same negative bullshit.
 
It does illustrate how a fleet footed approach can reap benefits when not everything has to be agreed by committee.

I feel sorry for those affected by this.
 
The picture changes when you look at percentages of the population fully vaccinated. We are low on that chart but that doesn't suit some agendas
 
Ruperthoop said:
An achievement to be really proud about. Along with the Israelis the Uk has led the world in the fight against this pandemic.
Click to expand...

The Israelis have done well with their vaccination programme, but that comes from having a relatively small population and managing to convice Pfizer to supply enough of the vaccine quickly enough and in the quantities needed.

What the UK has done is not only lead the world on the vaccination programme, but also lead the world on the development of vaccines and treatments.

Not bad for a country that's supposedly f***ed the whole thing up.
 
Shandypants said:
The picture changes when you look at percentages of the population fully vaccinated. We are low on that chart but that doesn't suit some agendas
Click to expand...

We know that the vast majority of protection comes from the first dose, the second is more about maintaining it than adding extra protection.

In fact being low on that chart is a triumph, rather than slavishly sticking to the trials data the JCVI has used professional judgement to vaccinate far more people, being high on that chart is in fact a mark of failure.
 
Lost Seasider said:
We know that the vast majority of protection comes from the first dose, the second is more about maintaining it than adding extra protection.

In fact being low on that chart is a triumph, rather than slavishly sticking to the trials data the JCVI has used professional judgement to vaccinate far more people, being high on that chart is in fact a mark of failure.
Click to expand...
Professional judgement or a bit of a punt?
 
Lost Seasider said:
We know that the vast majority of protection comes from the first dose, the second is more about maintaining it than adding extra protection.

In fact being low on that chart is a triumph, rather than slavishly sticking to the trials data the JCVI has used professional judgement to vaccinate far more people, being high on that chart is in fact a mark of failure.
Click to expand...
I think the jury is still out with that. This is so new there are so many questions to be answered
 
Whether it would have been more difficult in the EU or not the perception doesn't make the EU look good.

If we come out of lockdown and the EU stays in for a prolonged period, just makes them look even worse. Its shown up the disadvantages of their approach, negativity towards us and the vaccine and an approach needing all 27 when we just need 1.
 
Shandypants said:
The picture changes when you look at percentages of the population fully vaccinated. We are low on that chart but that doesn't suit some agendas
Click to expand...

Why on earth is vaccinating a higher percentage of the population somehow better than vaccinating a higher number of people?
 
Wizaard said:
Professional judgement or a bit of a punt?
Click to expand...

It was the JCVI's call, this is their membership:
  • Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford)
  • Professor Lim Wei Shen, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals)
  • Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford)
  • Dr Kevin Brown (Public Health England)
  • Dr Rebecca Cordery (Public Health England)
  • Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust)
  • Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick)
  • Alison Lawrence (lay member)
  • Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital)
  • Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
  • Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol)
  • Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands)
  • Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen)
  • Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London)
  • Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol)
  • Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals)
You be the judge.
 
How can it even be a discussion point that being in the EU would have made it more difficult.

The fact is 4 EU countries began their own process, then ceded purchasing to the EU negotiators. There was an expectation that it should be a EU project, as they wanted to vaccinate in members states at the same rate. Good for them.

The UK has vaccinated as many people as the next 5 EU nations combined.

The one jab policy will save lives and will prove to be the right move. We have some of the very best biotech companies on the planet here, Christ even the M.O.D. have Porton Down.

Let's celebrate that we excel at this stuff and it will save lives in this country and way beyond our borders.
 
Last edited:
Lost Seasider said:
It was the JCVI's call, this is their membership:
  • Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford)
  • Professor Lim Wei Shen, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals)
  • Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford)
  • Dr Kevin Brown (Public Health England)
  • Dr Rebecca Cordery (Public Health England)
  • Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust)
  • Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick)
  • Alison Lawrence (lay member)
  • Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital)
  • Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
  • Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol)
  • Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands)
  • Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen)
  • Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London)
  • Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol)
  • Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals)
You be the judge.
Click to expand...
Aye, but what do they know?
 
Lost Seasider said:
It was the JCVI's call, this is their membership:
  • Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford)
  • Professor Lim Wei Shen, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals)
  • Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford)
  • Dr Kevin Brown (Public Health England)
  • Dr Rebecca Cordery (Public Health England)
  • Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust)
  • Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick)
  • Alison Lawrence (lay member)
  • Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital)
  • Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
  • Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol)
  • Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands)
  • Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen)
  • Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London)
  • Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol)
  • Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals)
You be the judge.
Click to expand...
As the whole groundsman thing has demonstrated, there is no topic that AVFTT doesn't have world renowned experts on it.

Look, with hindsight and so far, the one jab policy is working well, but it was against the 3 week recommendation made at the time. That's why I questioned the decision at the time while hoping it would work out.

Fingers crossed it has, but there must have been an element of doubt even in that august body.
 
Wizaard said:
As the whole groundsman thing has demonstrated, there is no topic that AVFTT doesn't have world renowned experts on it.

Look, with hindsight and so far, the one jab policy is working well, but it was against the 3 week recommendation made at the time. That's why I questioned the decision at the time while hoping it would work out.

Fingers crossed it has, but there must have been an element of doubt even in that august body.
Click to expand...
Of course, that will have had some concerns, but it's educated reasoning, and I hope it was more than a punt - they aren't politicians after all.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The Israelis have done well with their vaccination programme, but that comes from having a relatively small population and managing to convice Pfizer to supply enough of the vaccine quickly enough and in the quantities needed.

What the UK has done is not only lead the world on the vaccination programme, but also lead the world on the development of vaccines and treatments.

Not bad for a country that's supposedly f***ed the whole thing up.
Click to expand...
The number of people that died because of incompetence and negligence is greater in the UK than almost anywhere else. This must not be forgotten or excused.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The Israelis have done well with their vaccination programme, but that comes from having a relatively small population and managing to convice Pfizer to supply enough of the vaccine quickly enough and in the quantities needed.

What the UK has done is not only lead the world on the vaccination programme, but also lead the world on the development of vaccines and treatments.

Not bad for a country that's supposedly f***ed the whole thing up.
Click to expand...
I think it’s all to do with both having first rate agencies able to step when needed to counter threats to national civil infrastructure 😎😉
 
catinstalbans said:
The number of people that died because of incompetence and negligence is greater in the UK than almost anywhere else. This must not be forgotten or excused.
Click to expand...
How do you know. Something tells me the figures from around the world may be distorted. But if the cap fits and all that.
 
Wizaard said:
As the whole groundsman thing has demonstrated, there is no topic that AVFTT doesn't have world renowned experts on it.

Look, with hindsight and so far, the one jab policy is working well, but it was against the 3 week recommendation made at the time. That's why I questioned the decision at the time while hoping it would work out.

Fingers crossed it has, but there must have been an element of doubt even in that august body.
Click to expand...
I can’t believe they decided to take any sort of risk, the implications if they were wrong would have been monumental. They must have had total confidence in their analysis.
 
Matesrates said:
I can’t believe they decided to take any sort of risk, the implications if they were wrong would have been monumental. They must have had total confidence in their
Click to expand...
Wizaard said:
It's the politicians who would have made the final call.
Click to expand...
The initial results from the trials after jab 1 showed a 60 -65% success rate hence a two jab strategy, however a more in-depth study showed a much higher first jab success rate but the company couldn’t stand 100% behind that finding so it was thought better to launch the jab on the 2 jab 3 week apart format. Shortly after Vaccination started they could confirm 1 jab would be effective for a longer period . The government would have carried on with the initial strategy had the advice not changed. My sister is part of the team who set up 16 vaccination centres In Norfolk, the above is basically the memo they were given at the time. She isn’t a Tory supporter and has been very critical of them from her position in the NHS but applauded this one.
 
Scaramanga said:
How do you know. Something tells me the figures from around the world may be distorted. But if the cap fits and all that.
Click to expand...

If you look at the excess deaths figures for 2020 (the gold standard measure) we seem to be very much middle of the table, which is actually quite remarkable when you consider how badly we were hit in the first wave.
 
TSSeasider said:
How can it even be a discussion point that being in the EU would have made it more difficult.

The fact is 4 EU countries began their own process, then ceded purchasing to the EU negotiators. There was an expectation that it should be a EU project, as they wanted to vaccinate in members states at the same rate. Good for them.

The UK has vaccinated as many people as the next 5 EU nations combined.

The one jab policy will save lives and will prove to be the right move. We have some of the very best biotech companies on the planet here, Christ even the M.O.D. have Porton Down.

Let's celebrate that we excel at this stuff and it will save lives in this country and way beyond our borders.
Click to expand...

A group of 3,500 Italian doctors and private specialists have called on the government to drop the AstraZeneca vaccine as bitter attacks on the UK-based firm continue. Their spokesman said “It’s not that we are acting like spoiled children. We are not against AstraZeneca for the sake of it, but we know that with their vaccine it takes longer to get a complete immunisation. We are not class B doctors.”

Meanwhile, healthcare chiefs have struggled to roll out the AstraZeneca vaccine all over the EU because of public criticism by President Macron. Reports of citizens shunning the Oxford jab have emerged from Italy, Germany, France and Belgium, as well as others. Only 200,000 of the 1.5 million AstraZeneca vaccines available in Germany have been utilised because of the public opting to reject the shot. German health minister Jen Spahn has urged people to accept the jab and said an alternative vaccine could be used at a later date if supplies allow for it.

Seems like Merkel, Macron and VDL have dug themselves into a big hole they can't get out of.
 
tommytwojags said:
A group of 3,500 Italian doctors and private specialists have called on the government to drop the AstraZeneca vaccine as bitter attacks on the UK-based firm continue. Their spokesman said “It’s not that we are acting like spoiled children. We are not against AstraZeneca for the sake of it, but we know that with their vaccine it takes longer to get a complete immunisation. We are not class B doctors.”

Meanwhile, healthcare chiefs have struggled to roll out the AstraZeneca vaccine all over the EU because of public criticism by President Macron. Reports of citizens shunning the Oxford jab have emerged from Italy, Germany, France and Belgium, as well as others. Only 200,000 of the 1.5 million AstraZeneca vaccines available in Germany have been utilised because of the public opting to reject the shot. German health minister Jen Spahn has urged people to accept the jab and said an alternative vaccine could be used at a later date if supplies allow for it.

Seems like Merkel, Macron and VDL have dug themselves into a big hole they can't get out of.
Click to expand...

I can understand the public's reaction in those countries, but people are going to die unnecessarily as a result of a political face saving exercise. Terrible.
 
tommytwojags said:
A group of 3,500 Italian doctors and private specialists have called on the government to drop the AstraZeneca vaccine as bitter attacks on the UK-based firm continue. Their spokesman said “It’s not that we are acting like spoiled children. We are not against AstraZeneca for the sake of it, but we know that with their vaccine it takes longer to get a complete immunisation. We are not class B doctors.”

Meanwhile, healthcare chiefs have struggled to roll out the AstraZeneca vaccine all over the EU because of public criticism by President Macron. Reports of citizens shunning the Oxford jab have emerged from Italy, Germany, France and Belgium, as well as others. Only 200,000 of the 1.5 million AstraZeneca vaccines available in Germany have been utilised because of the public opting to reject the shot. German health minister Jen Spahn has urged people to accept the jab and said an alternative vaccine could be used at a later date if supplies allow for it.

Seems like Merkel, Macron and VDL have dug themselves into a big hole they can't get out of.
Click to expand...

It's actually quite funny in a sick kind of way, they're screaming at AZ for more vaccines, but at the same time they're not using the ones they have got or are wasting them on the under 55's.
 
Matesrates said:
I can’t believe they decided to take any sort of risk, the implications if they were wrong would have been monumental. They must have had total confidence in their analysis.
Click to expand...

Remember that there are risks either way, the 3 week interval would've left maybe 10 million vulnerable people unvaccinated for 10 weeks, perhaps as many as 500,000 of them would've got the virus and possibly anywhere between 5,000 - 50,000 would've died as a result.

Of course to be pedantic the above isn't actually a risk, it is a certainty.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The Israelis have done well with their vaccination programme, but that comes from having a relatively small population and managing to convice Pfizer to supply enough of the vaccine quickly enough and in the quantities needed.

What the UK has done is not only lead the world on the vaccination programme, but also lead the world on the development of vaccines and treatments.

Not bad for a country that's supposedly f***ed the whole thing up.
Click to expand...
Amazing what happens when the right people are allowed to get on with things
 
rockontommy said:
order-order.com

Merkel: I Won't Take the Oxford Vaccine

Germany's desperate campaign to improve Covid vaccine take-up has stalled after Angela Merkel refused to ditch her country's anti-scientific policy of
order-order.com order-order.com
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She looks idiotic over this.

Big study from Scotland recently and was very positive about Oxford vaccine having a higher effectiveness against hospitalisation than pfizer and sure there was positive effectiveness in over 80s too.

So what is she moaning about the sour faced trollop.
 
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