The Have's and the Have-nots

TwelveAngryMen

TwelveAngryMen

Well-known member
One billion spent by Prem clubs this transfer window
The Govt expect them to reallocate some of the TV money to help the EFL
The current offer to the EFL ( with conditions attached ) is worth only £50m with a further £100m being offered as a loan at commercial rates
The EFL reckon they need £250m
Eight Prem clubs had a net spend in excess of £50m and the ' regulars ' have already imposed a Covid related charge to the promoted clubs of £8.4m over the next two seasons - which covers the bailout offered
Steve Parish was very vocal in The Sunday Times comparing the Govt's expectations to supermarkets being asked to bail out corner shops
Do we all think it's reasonable to expect the Premier League to step in ?
For me the Prem is awash with money and in these unprecedented times a reallocation of some of that TV money is needed to keep the football pyramid from collapsing
The Premier Clubs have probably paid agents more than they are offering the EFL in this transfer window alone
Maybe the Gov't should have insisted on a transfer levy before now
Something is going to have to be done if the game we all love isn't to collapse around us
 
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TwelveAngryMen said:
Maybe the Gov't should have insisted on a transfer levy before now
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Good-great point - but this is where it will fall down as the lawyers will argue thats a restraint on trade, and would clean out any hope of a bail out (we spent it on fighting the legal battle etc)

I'll go back to my established view that the real problem is with people buying the TV packages, although there's little we can do about the Chinese deals etc. Might sound a tad ironic coming from me but people need to get off their 'arrises and go and watch live football, as an alternative to wall to wall PL stuff.

That said the VAR and offside nonsense is/are probably doing the right thing in damaging the 'product', and turning it away from the traditional game into something resembling the NFL. The whole EPL vehicle is gathering momentum and at some point will crash-not necessarily a financial failure but something so far removed it becomes unrecognisable.

The day the (say) Liverpool v Man City final clash of the season is played in China/Australia/ USA cant come soon enough for me.
 
I buy the TV sport packages and have a Season Ticket 🙄
Why I love watching live football and if that fuels the greed league I couldn't give a toss.
As to a bail out you just have to look at some of the owners of clubs before hand outs they could be worth hundreds of millions why should the Cods ask for money for example when AP throws millions down the drain every year to prop his side up so he can do it now.

Help those in need but not a blanket pay out.
 
I imagine nearly every player who comes from abroad to feast on the money go round that is the PL is simply amazed at the cash they are being given to ply their trade here. I would go on to say if there was a levy of 1% on his huge wages that went towards football in this country lower down in the pyramid it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the attraction of jumping on this cash rich bandwagon. I'm not sure what the amount is per season if we applied this 1% (pre tax) of PL footballers wages to go to save our national game from grass roots upwards, but I'm pretty sure it would be a colossal amount for a very good cause and would be a minor issue to a PL players salary.

In a couple of years that levy would be a game changer for the good of football in this country and we should be lobbying for it immediately.
 
poolseasider said:
I buy the TV sport packages and have a Season Ticket 🙄
Why I love watching live football and if that fuels the greed league I couldn't give a toss.
As to a bail out you just have to look at some of the owners of clubs before hand outs they could be worth hundreds of millions why should the Cods ask for money for example when AP throws millions down the drain every year to prop his side up so he can do it now.

Help those in need but not a blanket pay out.
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very good counter point to the o/p.
 
poolseasider said:
I buy the TV sport packages and have a Season Ticket 🙄
Why I love watching live football and if that fuels the greed league I couldn't give a toss.
As to a bail out you just have to look at some of the owners of clubs before hand outs they could be worth hundreds of millions why should the Cods ask for money for example when AP throws millions down the drain every year to prop his side up so he can do it now.

Help those in need but not a blanket pay out.
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Fair points.

But how would we feel if competitors (or even Preston!) got hand outs from the PL when we didn’t?

Hardly fair.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Fair points.

But how would we feel if competitors (or even Preston!) got hand outs from the PL when we didn’t?

Hardly fair.
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I'd suggest Hemmings at PNE and Pilley at the Cods have more than enough money to bail their own teams out. Which was the point being made.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Fair points.

But how would we feel if competitors (or even Preston!) got hand outs from the PL when we didn’t?

Hardly fair.
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Its always been the perennial problem in that clubs in crisis talk of the 'football family' but don't show much empathy when its someone else.
Football too has a problem with bitter rivalry and that often shows through during troubled times-look at Bolton for instance who didnt draw much sympathy on here.

I can't see a viable and mutually agreeable way out of the current problems as there's too much stuff to overcome,so it looks like a survival of the fittest and in some cases the lucky ones.
 
20togo said:
I'd suggest Hemmings at PNE and Pilley at the Cods have more than enough money to bail their own teams out. Which was the point being made.
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Just missed that but Hemmings has said he wont bail them out again. I think he had enough after Billy Davis.
 
I just don’t see how one big business can be obliged to bail out another failing business in a connected industry.

It was always wrong to allow the Premier League in the first place. The only option is to reintegrate the EFL into the PL but the terms would effectively end football as we know it. Surprised it’s only taken around three decades for the system to crash.
 
20togo said:
I'd suggest Hemmings at PNE and Pilley at the Cods have more than enough money to bail their own teams out. Which was the point being made.
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By focusing on PNE and Fleetwood I think you’re missing the wider point which is, should some clubs be helped out, but not others? Particularly if clubs receiving support are in the mire because of historical financial mismanagement?

I could see a lot of fans feeling it’s unfair if teams in the same league get a helping hand, when their own team doesn’t.
 
I dont think the EPL should have to bail out the rest and i feel uncomfortable with the suggestion. Why should they? Where does it end? Should Blackpool and L1 clubs be bailing out national league north because we have more money and a better tv deal?
What it needs is a proper conversation and action on the redistribution of TV money more fairly and sorting out ridiculous agents fees.
 
Plumbs said:
Just missed that but Hemmings has said he wont bail them out again. I think he had enough after Billy Davis.
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Yep, but that can't be laid at the PL door can it? It would and should be Hemmings respsonsibility because he has the resources to do so.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
By focusing on PNE and Fleetwood I think you’re missing the wider point which is, should some clubs be helped out, but not others? Particularly if clubs receiving support are in the mire because of historical financial mismanagement?

I could see a lot of fans feeling it’s unfair if teams in the same league get a helping hand, when their own team doesn’t.
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Well I'm not sure it's a fan issue at all. And I wasn't particularly focusing on PNE and the Cods. They were the two teams quoted.
I don't think there is a workable or easy solution when it comes to bail outs. The issue is more even redistribution of monies and even on that point I'm not necessarily greatly in favour of it. Not to the extent that some feel it's needed anyway.
 
20togo said:
Well I'm not sure it's a fan issue at all. And I wasn't particularly focusing on PNE and the Cods. They were the two teams quoted.
I don't think there is a workable or easy solution when it comes to bail outs. The issue is more even redistribution of monies and even on that point I'm not necessarily greatly in favour of it. Not to the extent that some feel it's needed anyway.
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Perhaps hand outs should be targeted specifically at clubs facing imminent liquidation? And geared simply to get them to the other side of the pandemic?

My other thought is that, particularly if bail outs are not targeted and there’s a more blanket approach, financial support should be on condition that there’s more fan/community involvement in the club in question? I can’t see the PL coming up with an initiative like that, so we’d need Government engagement.

Alternatively we could just say “Sod it. It is what it is, and if clubs go under so be it”.
 
How about scrapping the parachute payments and spreading that money end of problems.
Giving teams relegated from the PL huge sums shouldn't be allowed and causes an unfair balance in the league.
 
The major drain that lower league clubs put on themselves is the vast sums they pay to teenagers/20 somethings, so the bail out is on the whole to pay these people several thousand pounds a week. I cant see the same clamour the subsidise Local Government in the same way.. (By the way, I don't have an answer to the dilema)

The answer I keep banging on about is a 3rd Div footballer should not be able to earn more than a 30yr experience Doctor or Nurse..... (I use Doctor/Nurse cos that gets sympathy, rather than a 40yr experienced Local Govmnt officer))
 
Culture Secretary should appoint a regulator to oversee the whole of football to completely restructure the existing leagues and governance.
Power has to be taken away from the Premier League. Regulator to be in charge of TV contracts and redistribution of money to lower leagues/grassroots coupled with new tests for prospective owners of clubs.
Transfer levy of 1% and a tax on agent's fees.
EFL fans to support a boycott of Sky and BT televised matches.
Jimmy Armfield used to say if you do nothing nothing happens. The crunch is coming..
 
Atchetman said:
Culture Secretary should appoint a regulator to oversee the whole of football to completely restructure the existing leagues and governance.
Power has to be taken away from the Premier League. Regulator to be in charge of TV contracts and redistribution of money to lower leagues/grassroots coupled with new tests for prospective owners of clubs.
Transfer levy of 1% and a tax on agent's fees.
EFL fans to support a boycott of Sky and BT televised matches.
Jimmy Armfield used to say if you do nothing nothing happens. The crunch is coming..
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You want governments to take over the running of football no bloody thanks it wouldn't be long before they had their sticky fingers in the till.
 
I think it’s more pertinent to ask should the EFL and EPL be helping out clubs in crisis over should individual clubs help each other.

What were the terms of the PL breaking away from the EFL? I’m not really sure on that one, was there ever a clause written in by the FA to ensure if the PL exponentially grew as they hoped the EFL would come along with them? I highly doubt it.

A big question for me would be, is the EFL awash with cash as an organisation? For me the burden is shared with individual clubs in the EFL and the EFL itself.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Perhaps hand outs should be targeted specifically at clubs facing imminent liquidation? And geared simply to get them to the other side of the pandemic?
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I think that’s the only way really and would be good PR for the clubs doing the bailing out and only to the extent of trying to make up shortfalls for a time limited period. It can’t be a free for all.
 
20togo said:
Yep, but that can't be laid at the PL door can it? It would and should be Hemmings respsonsibility because he has the resources to do so.
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No it cant but the point I guess is that Hemmings has called an end to open ended 'investment' and wants the club to stand on its own two feet. I think there's a distinct difference on the proposed bailout between clubs who are genuinely struggling, and those who were overspending before covid arrived; very difficult I'd suggest to determine those who deserve help and those who are perhaps not as entitled to it.
 
A lot of clubs overstretch themselves chasing promotion & tend to live on the edge as a result of this, it does seem unfair how the money is distributed though, but the tv companies pay vast sums for the Premier league broadcasting rights. However funds are gathered for a bail out I don't know, but we will lose a great deal of football clubs due to this pandemic if something is not done. Remember this is a first possibly since wartime & I bet they didn't have to pay players during that (not that wages were so ridiculous then)
 
Maybe the PFA should contribute something seeing they are sat on vast sums of money. It directly affects their members . I see for all the the bluster on Gordon Taylor hes still there pulling a massive wage.
 
28 years too late. The setting up of the EPL meant they separated from the Football League into a separately run body to maximise their revenue at the cost of the Football League. There is no such thing as a football community. That boat has long gone.
 
Wizaard said:
28 years too late. The setting up of the EPL meant they separated from the Football League into a separately run body to maximise their revenue at the cost of the Football League. There is no such thing as a football community. That boat has long gone.
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Yep law of the jungle

Football sold its soul years ago

Crack on now and fuck them all ...
 
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