The Key to staying up or reaching the play offs is

S

Supersub

Well-known member
GOALS. Last season Promoted: Fulham Goal difference 63, Bournemouth 35, Forest 33. Other playoff teams, Huddersfield 17, Sheffield Utd 18, Luton 8. We ended up with - 4 which in the grand scheme of things wasn’t too bad. However we all knew that for the past couple of seasons goals have been an issue. Some games we have not had a single shot on target. We have struggled to create goal scoring opportunities on a consistent basis. Think back to our last promotion to the Premier League, we were scoring goals from all departments. Every outfield player scored at least one goal in that promotion season and we looked like we would score every time we went forward.
In Lavery I think we have potentially the Championships most natural goal scorer. The team in my opinion should be set up to give Lavery the best possible opportunities of putting the ball in the back of the net. Like most successful teams you need that core spine of commanding confident goalkeeper, a defensive rock, a midfield general and a consistent goal scorer. For me Grimshaw, Ekpiteta and Lavery fill 3 of those places based on our current squad. The creative midfield general needs to be found. Appleton needs to develop a squad and team that can create opportunities and score goals consistently if we have ambitions to reach the play offs. The statistics speak for themselves. We need some decent additions but it can be done. Over to you Michael.
 
Supersub said:
In Lavery I think we have potentially the Championships most natural goal scorer.
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Totally agree and be interesting to see what the difference was in service and those around him when he was flying mid-season and when he had the dip in form and goals towards the end of the season.
 
Forest showed how its done last season by bringing in six quality loan players, without them they'd still be in the Championship for sure.

Right now we're a million miles away from any aspirations of getting close to the promotion slots, lots of work needs doing in terms of recruitment.
 
Supersub said:
GOALS. Last season Promoted: Fulham Goal difference 63, Bournemouth 35, Forest 33. Other playoff teams, Huddersfield 17, Sheffield Utd 18, Luton 8. We ended up with - 4 which in the grand scheme of things wasn’t too bad. However we all knew that for the past couple of seasons goals have been an issue. Some games we have not had a single shot on target. We have struggled to create goal scoring opportunities on a consistent basis. Think back to our last promotion to the Premier League, we were scoring goals from all departments. Every outfield player scored at least one goal in that promotion season and we looked like we would score every time we went forward.
In Lavery I think we have potentially the Championships most natural goal scorer. The team in my opinion should be set up to give Lavery the best possible opportunities of putting the ball in the back of the net. Like most successful teams you need that core spine of commanding confident goalkeeper, a defensive rock, a midfield general and a consistent goal scorer. For me Grimshaw, Ekpiteta and Lavery fill 3 of those places based on our current squad. The creative midfield general needs to be found. Appleton needs to develop a squad and team that can create opportunities and score goals consistently if we have ambitions to reach the play offs. The statistics speak for themselves. We need some decent additions but it can be done. Over to you Michael.
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Chemistry
 
Raging_Bull said:
Forest showed how its done last season by bringing in six quality loan players, without them they'd still be in the Championship for sure.

Right now we're a million miles away from any aspirations of getting close to the promotion slots, lots of work needs doing in terms of recruitment.
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Any idea how much those "six quality loans" cost the florists? Do you think there would've been much change left out of the entire BFC playing budget?
 
When we went up with Ollie we scored 74 goals and had a goal difference of +16 so to me that says it depends more on set up and balance than anything else. We just didn’t go for it because we had no confidence in being able to do it. We need a talisman in central midfield alongside Bowler doing what he likes and I reckon the players we have in Yates Lavery and Madine would finish them.
 
Raging_Bull said:
Forest showed how its done last season by bringing in six quality loan players, without them they'd still be in the Championship for sure.

Right now we're a million miles away from any aspirations of getting close to the promotion slots, lots of work needs doing in terms of recruitment.
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A decent Manager also helps…… what a job he did at Forest to take them from the bottom to the top!
 
Lost Seasider said:
Any idea how much those "six quality loans" cost the florists? Do you think there would've been much change left out of the entire BFC playing budget?
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I'm not sure, but I'm certain now Forest have reached the PL they'll tell you it was worth every penny.

We saw last season what a difference quality makes when they played us off the park at Bloomfield Rd.

You have to speculate to accumulate pal, Forest did and got their reward.
 
We are going to be mid table.No hopes of being the surprise team. But no worries at any stage of the season about getting relegated.
 
when you set up to be defensive, and we did last season in a lot of games, one error at teh back and we are f**ked, often last season we were playing with 7 recognisably defensive outfield players and when we went forward we only had a couple of players in and around the box. Under holloway whenevr we went forward we had 5 or six players around or within striking distance of the opponents box. lets not forget that under holloway we let in quite a lot of goals, if you regularly score two or three then an inevitable error at the back isnt that problematic.
 
BFCPaul said:
Totally agree and be interesting to see what the difference was in service and those around him when he was flying mid-season and when he had the dip in form and goals towards the end of the season.
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I like Shane as he's hard working and tenacious, a bit like a working Jack Russell; however, I'm not sure about his goal scoring ability at Championship level.
This is based on him fading last season & him not progressing much with Ireland, despite working with their of coaches. If he's going to score goals, he certainly needs far better service from the midfield - there rests another problem for MA.
He does need to stop inviting contact and then falling over, as the refs aren't wearing it.
 
Is the OP Lavery's dad?

At the moment I think Shayne is lower Championship quality. He has a knack for being on the end of chances around 12 yards out, but he's done so little to impress otherwise.

If he gets the ball outside of the box it's a coin flip as to whether we retain possession. His first touch is not great at all and you rarely see him carry it or hold it up effectively.

He's a workhorse off the ball but he needs to add quality to the rest of his game.
 
Tango1953 said:
Is the OP Lavery's dad?

At the moment I think Shayne is lower Championship quality. He has a knack for being on the end of chances around 12 yards out, but he's done so little to impress otherwise.

If he gets the ball outside of the box it's a coin flip as to whether we retain possession. His first touch is not great at all and you rarely see him carry it or hold it up effectively.

He's a workhorse off the ball but he needs to add quality to the rest of his game.
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A workhorse off the ball and a finisher. Gary Lineker was just a finisher. I quite like having a finisher in the team!
 
Raging_Bull said:
I'm not sure, but I'm certain now Forest have reached the PL they'll tell you it was worth every penny.

We saw last season what a difference quality makes when they played us off the park at Bloomfield Rd.

You have to speculate to accumulate pal, Forest did and got their reward.
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Speculation works both ways, you can also lose, and for every Forest who lucked out in the play-offs, I can show you a Derby/Reading/Birmingham who failed.

£5,000,000 is my best guess of what those players would've cost btw.
 
Goal difference is of course key, because it means you’ve more than likely won more games. We were lacking in goals last season and I hope we can address that problem next season. Let’s face it, as fans we want goals.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Speculation works both ways, you can also lose, and for every Forest who lucked out in the play-offs, I can show you a Derby/Reading/Birmingham who failed.

£5,000,000 is my best guess of what those players would've cost btw.
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£5m is buttons compared to the rewards, you're right though,some will always fail but failure of others should never put anyone off giving it a go (if you're pockets are deep enough).
 
Raging_Bull said:
£5m is buttons compared to the rewards, you're right though,some will always fail but failure of others should never put anyone off giving it a go (if you're pockets are deep enough).
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It's only buttons if you get lucky, and there's an awful lot of clubs in this division trying the exact same thing.
 
Yep, Lavery is ok but he's nowhere near the most natural goalscorer in the Championship. I've read some poor observations in my time on here but that's up with the best of them.
 
Tango1953 said:
Is the OP Lavery's dad?

At the moment I think Shayne is lower Championship quality. He has a knack for being on the end of chances around 12 yards out, but he's done so little to impress otherwise.

If he gets the ball outside of the box it's a coin flip as to whether we retain possession. His first touch is not great at all and you rarely see him carry it or hold it up effectively.

He's a workhorse off the ball but he needs to add quality to the rest of his game.
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I’m his mum you cheeky rascal. Now you leave my Shayne alone or you will have me to answer to 😊
 
Raging_Bull said:
Probably not, but be prepared to be an ordinary side forever or relegation candidates then.
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And if it all goes wrong, then what?

Slide down into the National League and play against the likes of Barnet and Notts County, with maybe a local derby against AFC Fylde to look forward to, maybe disappear out of existence like Bury.

There's a lot of clubs out there who would love to be where we are today.
 
Lost Seasider said:
And if it all goes wrong, then what?

Slide down into the National League and play against the likes of Barnet and Notts County, with maybe a local derby against AFC Fylde to look forward to, maybe disappear out of existence like Bury.

There's a lot of clubs out there who would love to be where we are today.
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True, but at the current rate we may well be sliding down anyway, we're not doing enough business to even stay in the Championship for me.
 
Tango1953 said:
Those are the only options? Alongside risking the club's future on a one season punt? How did we get promoted in 2010?

Glad you aren't in charge.
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We got promoted in 2010 for a number of reasons including the loan players we had most notably Seamus Coleman, Barry Bannan and DJ Campbell and the investment in Charlie Adam.

If I was in charge you'd find out what a good manager is pal.
 
If we could bring in a decent centre forward I'd be happy to lose any of the four we have, Madine first to go followed by Beesley, Lavery then Yates.
It's possible that none of them are quite good enough but to be fair to them the rotation was relentless apart from Madine when he was fit to play, and the chances created were very few and far between.
 
Supersub said:
GOALS. Last season Promoted: Fulham Goal difference 63, Bournemouth 35, Forest 33. Other playoff teams, Huddersfield 17, Sheffield Utd 18, Luton 8. We ended up with - 4 which in the grand scheme of things wasn’t too bad. However we all knew that for the past couple of seasons goals have been an issue. Some games we have not had a single shot on target. We have struggled to create goal scoring opportunities on a consistent basis. Think back to our last promotion to the Premier League, we were scoring goals from all departments. Every outfield player scored at least one goal in that promotion season and we looked like we would score every time we went forward.
In Lavery I think we have potentially the Championships most natural goal scorer. The team in my opinion should be set up to give Lavery the best possible opportunities of putting the ball in the back of the net. Like most successful teams you need that core spine of commanding confident goalkeeper, a defensive rock, a midfield general and a consistent goal scorer. For me Grimshaw, Ekpiteta and Lavery fill 3 of those places based on our current squad. The creative midfield general needs to be found. Appleton needs to develop a squad and team that can create opportunities and score goals consistently if we have ambitions to reach the play offs. The statistics speak for themselves. We need some decent additions but it can be done. Over to you Michael.
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This was my view in relation to “The key to staying up or reaching the Playoffs” Written pre season in July 2022. I stand by every word apart from Lavery filling the main goal scoring slot. This was based more on his potential and the expectation that Appleton and others would play him in his natural position. It’s not rocket science and it’s deeply disappointing that Managers who are paid good money don’t seem to get it. Prime example of the only outfield player we have signed who will consistently add a few goals each season is Lyons plus Big Marve who was already here.
 
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