The new rules

cruzzer said:
I am talking about what it HAS been like. The new guidelines mean all shop staff now need to wear masks and the company is trying with signage to say no mask no entry.

Previous policy was not to challenge non mask wearers as store staff have experienced verbal and even physical abuse. I have seen CCTV footage of a scrote in his 30’s screaming abuse into the face of an 18 year old shop assistant.

We don’t live in BFCx3’s utopia, this is the reality of the dystopian society of this virus.

Mods, I called him out for being a lying tosser, what’s with that?
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Backtracking now that you have realised you've drop your son spuds deep in it for his woeful store-management.

As my nan used to say, a lie will always catch up with you!!
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
For all those against face masks take heart that gobshite tune thief Noel Gallagher agrees with you.

Noel Gallagher agreeing with you is not a good thing by the way.
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I must admit I’ve also gone off Van The Man.

I used to quite like his music but now he just sounds like a continual whineeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
As you point out, compliance in your shop is 98% plus and I doubt very much that the difference is simply down to clientelle or either shops policy. Perhaps the size of the shop, the fact there are screens and a limited number of people in store at one time (i.e. it is considered to be limited risk because people just nip in and out) and maybe it is partially due to confusion over the fact that masks were initially not required in take-away food stores.

I'm sure your wife is not a liar, though like so many people, I would expect that she is very much prone to unintentional exaggeration of the truth, especially given that this (by the sounds of it) is an issue that gripes her.

75% means that one in every four people entering the store are not wearing a mask. That's an awful lot of people not wearing masks and seems very much out of kilter with the typical high street experience, including your own.
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Yup, she can count, is quite laid back about the implications for herself personally for COVID, although is unable to see her mother in a care home.

I really think you are in grave danger of turning yourself into a caricature constantly telling everyone you know better than any of us. The whole point of my post was that it varies shop to shop. You are quite happy to accept my figures but not my wife's, with your condescending " prone to exaggeration of the truth". Accept you have not got a Scooby what goes on in our shops, you are just pushing your own views, poor form.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Unless you spent the entire day for a week in your local offy/ convenience store you really wouldn't know, becuase the tiny amout of time you spend in there and the small number of customers that might be in there at that time is not a representative sample.
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Maybe not, but when I’ve been going in at varying times of the day, and over a lengthy period, and I see the same scene, it’s only natural to assume that it’s not just my bad luck that I’m arriving at the only time on that particular day that no-ones wearing masks.
And anyway, does the same not apply to you when you tell us all that your experience is that the vast majority are complying?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Yup, she can count, is quite laid back about the implications for herself personally for COVID, although is unable to see her mother in a care home.

I really think you are in grave danger of turning yourself into a caricature constantly telling everyone you know better than any of us. The whole point of my post was that it varies shop to shop. You are quite happy to accept my figures but not my wife's, with your condescending " prone to exaggeration of the truth". Accept you have not got a Scooby what goes on in our shops, you are just pushing your own views, poor form.
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I don't disagree that it varies from shop to shop.... I said as much in my reply. However 75% does sound like a bit of an exaggeration to me and so I'm sorry, but I do think that your wife is getting a bit carried away on her abacus.

Have you got any supporting evidence to back up her figures or are you simply accepting her anecdotal evidence as fact?
 
I asked Mrs Mex for a female perspective on this debate. She made the point that the AVFTT demographic is predominantly middle aged and older men.

Her observation was “They don’t do the shopping!”
 
Have you ever been in her shop? Do you have any evidence that she cannot count? Have you anything valuable to say apart from you know better than any of us?
 
Johnno said:
Maybe not, but when I’ve been going in at varying times of the day, and over a lengthy period, and I see the same scene, it’s only natural to assume that it’s not just my bad luck that I’m arriving at the only time on that particular day that no-ones wearing masks.
And anyway, does the same not apply to you when you tell us all that your experience is that the vast majority are complying?
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It applies to everyones experience, including mine obviously. That's why I have refered to some proper statistical data collated by a reputable and independent source. That way we can cut through all the anecdotal crap and get to the facts.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Have you ever been in her shop? Do you have any evidence that she cannot count? Have you anything valuable to say apart from you know better than any of us?
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I'm not sure, what is the shop called and where is it?

I didn't say she can't count, I said she is probably exagerating her experience....she's clearly not the only one (See cruzzers son AKA 'the worst Coop Manager on the Fylde Coast', Johnno, TAM and Wiz).

I've not said that "I know better than any of you".... I've pointed people in the direction of independent evidence and offered explanations for your lack of accuracy.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not sure, what is the shop called and where is it?

I didn't say she can't count, I said she is probably exagerating her experience....she's clearly not the only one (See cruzzers son AKA 'the worst Coop Manager on the Fylde Coast', Johnno, TAM and Wiz).

I've not said that "I know better than any of you".... I've pointed people in the direction of independent evidence and offered explanations for your lack of accuracy.
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No, you have offered your own prejudices, nothing more, nothing less. We are all out of step except you. Quite sad, actually
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I asked Mrs Mex for a female perspective on this debate. She made the point that the AVFTT demographic is predominantly middle aged and older men.

Her observation was “They don’t do the shopping!”
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I do pretty much all the shopping in our household.....We're not all cavemen like you
😘
 
How the hell do the ONS know what’s happening in my local offy?
I trust my own eyes rather than any official statistic on that particular shop.
 
Johnno said:
How the hell do the ONS know what’s happening in my local offy?
I trust my own eyes rather than any official statistic on that particular shop.
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They don't, but then neither do you in all honesty, do you?....Unless you are the local pisspot (and even then) your interactions with the offy represents a tiny fraction of what goes on there. So you know what happens, in the few minutes that you spend in there each week.

I'd also imagine that like Moss's wife, you're probably exaggerating or maybe had a few too many?
 
I've not said that "I know better than any of you".... I've pointed people in the direction of independent evidence and offered explanations for your lack of accuracy.
[/QUOTE]
What you appear to be unaware of is that all that data comes from people like us, and average data will, by definition, mean a very wide range of responses. Instead of pontificating about how we are all inaccurate, maybe consider that the ONS data actually fits our real life day to day experience. Your very limited exposure to retail compared to the workers is leading you astray.
 
I'd also imagine that like Moss's wife, you're probably exaggerating or maybe had a few too many?
[/QUOTE]
Have you always been this rude, or is this caused by your exposure to COVID?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
They don't, but then neither do you in all honesty, do you?....Unless you are the local pisspot (and even then) your interactions with the offy represents a tiny fraction of what goes on there. So you know what happens, in the few minutes that you spend in there each week.

I'd also imagine that like Moss's wife, you're probably exaggerating or maybe had a few too many?
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As I said earlier, it’s an offy/convenience store, and as it’s only 100 yards from my house I buy my milk there, my bread, my fags and anything else that crops up on a daily basis. I also use it to keep my work float usable, so I often pop in more than once a day,
And yes, I even buy booze there when want to tie one on.
🥳🥳
 
Tangerinemoss said:
What you appear to be unaware of is that all that data comes from people like us, and average data will, by definition, mean a very wide range of responses. Instead of pontificating about how we are all inaccurate, maybe consider that the ONS data actually fits our real life day to day experience. Your very limited exposure to retail compared to the workers is leading you astray.
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My limited exposure (attending a variety of different retail settings) compared to your experience of (two small retail settings)?

Tangerinemoss said:
Have you always been this rude, or is this caused by your exposure to COVID?
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What? Your opening salvo on this thread was to make some kind of veiled threat to me and I'm the rude one?
 
Johnno said:
As I said earlier, it’s an offy/convenience store, and as it’s only 100 yards from my house I buy my milk there, my bread, my fags and anything else that crops up on a daily basis. I also use it to keep my work float usable, so I often pop in more than once a day,
And yes, I even buy booze there when want to tie one on.
🥳🥳
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That's very 'convenient'...though also a bit 'High Risk' to be spending so much time in there, given the mask wearing issues don't you think?

OK... Why don't you set up some kind of recording device to monitor the situation and report back with some video footage (unedited) to back up what you are saying?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
My limited exposure (attending a variety of different retail settings) compared to your experience of (two small retail settings)?

So we don't go into other retail outlets but you do? And who says I work in a small retail setting? You are just making stuff up to suit your agenda

What? Your opening salvo on this thread was to make some kind of veiled threat to me and I'm the rude one?
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Veiled threat if you called my wife a liar like you had earlier posters. To which you have condescendingly rubbished what she has said? Look in the mirror, mate. You are starting to make BRR look self effacing.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Well this is going well, isn't it? Maybe those with very fixed ideas need to consider that things vary.

I am an expert in the public in retail, I work 40 hours a week in a store, as does my wife. In my wife's store, a small bakery offering pies, cakes and sandwiches for takeaway, compliance recently has become much worse, maybe down to 75%. She has been back at work since the start of June, she and all her colleagues have been wearing masks for the last few weeks, despite being behind screens. They get customers in without masks, idiots covering their mouth with the neck of their T shirt, COVID deniers who think its all a hoax. Is it because people just pop in and out, they think it doesn't matter?

I work in an outdoor shop, 3 doors down. Compliance is probably 98% plus, we all wear masks and have done since we re opened, whatever the law says. Our customers are nearly all brilliant at masks, pretty crap at social distancing, though.

Oh, and Bifster, if you accuse my wife of being a liar, you and I will have words.

Reality is that it varies from shop to shop, and everyone will have a different story
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That exactly reflects our local shop experience.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
That's very 'convenient'...though also a bit 'High Risk' to be spending so much time in there, given the mask wearing issues don't you think?

OK... Why don't you set up some kind of recording device to monitor the situation and report back with some video footage (unedited) to back up what you are saying?
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Are you suggesting I’m lying about how far away the shop is to my house?
My remark about 94% non-compliance was obviously (I thought) a bit flippant, but if I was to put a figure on my “limited” experience I’d put it at about 25% of customers that wear masks.
I’ll not bother with setting up a surveillance system though.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Veiled threat if you called my wife a liar like you had earlier posters. To which you have condescendingly rubbished what she has said? Look in the mirror, mate. You are starting to make BRR look self effacing.
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I deal with Cruzzer in the way he deals with everyone else. Plus he was clearly telling porkies .

I haven't "condecendingly rubbished what she said" you have honed in on a tiny part of what I said (actually proving my point here tbf) and ignored everything apart from the bit about your wife that you had already decided you would be irked about, before I had even posted.

What I actually did, was accept your point (in part) and offer a few different reasons why your wifes experience might be different to your own. In addition, I made the observation, that your wife will be no digfferent than other humans and also be prone to a certain amount of exaggeration. So to that extent, what is stated as 75% is likely to be more like 85 or maybe 90%.

Incidentally, if you are triggered by someone questioning your wifes experience, in a very reasonable way, then perhaps it would be best not to involve her in the discussion?
 
Johnno said:
Are you suggesting I’m lying about how far away the shop is to my house?
My remark about 94% non-compliance was obviously (I thought) a bit flippant, but if I was to put a figure on my “limited” experience I’d put it at about 25% of customers that wear masks.
I’ll not bother with setting up a surveillance system though.
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No, I believe you..(well I believe you about the distance, within a few hundred yards)

So you've already admitted to the 94% non-compliance being an exaggeration and changed your mind by a multiple of four. I'm sure it won't be long until we get to the actual number, which will likely be minimum 80%.

Fair do's on the surveillance...It was just an idea
 
Johnno said:
How the hell do the ONS know what’s happening in my local offy?
I trust my own eyes rather than any official statistic on that particular shop.
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How representative do you think your local offy is of retail across the country as a whole?

What proportion of total retail sales do you think are made through such stores?

Seems to me like you've picked a very small section of the retail sector, one that is least likely to comply with covid secure guidelines, and then extrapolated to the entire retail sector as if they were one and the same.
 
Lost Seasider said:
How representative do you think your local offy is of retail across the country as a whole?

What proportion of total retail sales do you think are made through such stores?

Seems to me like you've picked a very small section of the retail sector, one that is least likely to comply with covid secure guidelines, and then extrapolated to the entire retail sector as if they were one and the same.
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I didn’t pick the shop for any reason whatsoever, I just commented on what I’d seen in that particular shop. I’ve never made out that it is representative of any retail sector, nor commented on how I think things are going generally.
Truth be told, I think it’s likely to be at the extreme of the spectrum, down to the area I live in.
 
Mrs SSP was in B&M's getting some paint and was openly laughed at for wearing a mask. Luckily she thinks most people are twats so wasn't too arsed. Not many in the store but majority not wearing them. I'm not sure I could make an assumption on that evidence about general mask wearing though.
I see Morrisons and Asda are re-employing door staff.
 
Johnno said:
I didn’t pick the shop for any reason whatsoever, I just commented on what I’d seen in that particular shop. I’ve never made out that it is representative of any retail sector, nor commented on how I think things are going generally.
Truth be told, I think it’s likely to be at the extreme of the spectrum, down to the area I live in.
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Cruzzers son doesn't manage the place by any chance does he?
 
Johnno said:
I didn’t pick the shop for any reason whatsoever, I just commented on what I’d seen in that particular shop. I’ve never made out that it is representative of any retail sector, nor commented on how I think things are going generally.
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Okay, but I've seen 100% compliance in my local offy, so your annecdote is as worthless as mine is.
 
southshorepool said:
Mrs SSP was in B&M's getting some paint and was openly laughed at for wearing a mask. Luckily she thinks most people are twats so wasn't too arsed. Not many in the store but majority not wearing them. I'm not sure I could make an assumption on that evidence about general mask wearing though.
I see Morrisons and Asda are re-employing door staff.
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Yep, looks like they need to start enforcing rationing again....The Bog Roll idiots have started clearing the shelves....
 
Wizaard said:
That exactly reflects our local shop experience.
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Cheers Wiz. My only point in joining this thread was to point out that it varies shop to shop, and there may be a common thread with small shops into which customers pop, rather than shop for a while. Most people reading this thread can see that and agree or disagree, based on their own experience.
 
deary said:
Dinosaur comedian makes not very funny 'joke' or 'social commentary'.
If he looks into a mirror he may be able to work out why his career went down the toilet 🤣
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Just a bit of light hearted humour in an otherwise depressing thread. It clearly went over your humour threshold.
 
Scaramanga said:
Just a bit of light hearted humour in an otherwise depressing thread. It clearly went over your humour threshold.
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Well its not particularly 'light hearted' if he wont wear a mask.
If it was funnier than i thought, accept my apologies as Ive not had my morning Coffee yet😊.
FYI Chubby Brown is still about 👍
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Cheers Wiz. My only point in joining this thread was to point out that it varies shop to shop, and there may be a common thread with small shops into which customers pop, rather than shop for a while. Most people reading this thread can see that and agree or disagree, based on their own experience.
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Yet you did so by wading and making threats and then completely misconstruing other people’s comments, before offering further insults.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yet you did so by wading and making threats and then completely misconstruing other people’s comments, before offering further insults.
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Bifster tbf lots of people have said their experience differs greatly to your own & the 'Official ONS
data'.
You seen to be dismissive of everyone and think you & the official figures are correct.
Interesting that you suddenly now tow the line & buy into officialdom as it suits you sir!
Didnt do that on fracking my old chap.

Look i just say what i see and take onboard others experiences and conversations including yours.
Lots of people on this thread are reporting similar. This include people like Tam & Wiz who are imho well respected posters of many years standing & certainly have more kudos than myself or most on here.

I could explain in great detail why i feel the ONS data is wrong, the value of surveys. How they are constructed & by their very nature how they will exclude many but frankly I honestly cant be arsed.

If surveys were accurate clown pants wouldnt be running the US, brexit would not have happend & Labour would have a lot more seats in the commons.
Its a floored medium.

If it makes you feel better to keep ur position as 'all seeing eye' board 'know it all & quoter of stats enjoy 👍
You are no less fallible than anyone else on here.
I will say what i see and base my opinion of the situation more in reality rather than 'official survey'.
Many others will do the same & we have the right to do so.

If you wanna take an ONS survey as accurate even though many people are seeing different thats fine.
 
deary said:
Bifster tbf lots of people have said their experience differs greatly to your own & the 'Official ONS
data'.
You seen to be dismissive of everyone and think you & the official figures are correct.
Interesting that you suddenly now tow the line & buy into officialdom as it suits you sir!
Didnt do that on fracking my old chap.

Look i just say what i see and take onboard others experiences and conversations including yours.
Lots of people on this thread are reporting similar. This include people like Tam & Wiz who are imho well respected posters of many years standing & certainly have more kudos than myself or most on here.

I could explain in great detail why i feel the ONS data is wrong, the value of surveys. How they are constructed & by their very nature how they will exclude many but frankly I honestly cant be arsed.

If surveys were accurate clown pants wouldnt be running the US, brexit would not have happend &, Labour would have a lot more seats in the commons.
Its a floored medium.

If it makes you feel better to keep ur position as 'all seeing eye' board 'know it all & quoter of of stats enjoy 👍
You are no less fallible than anyone else on here.
I will say what i see and base my opinion of the situation more in reality rather than 'official survey'.
Many others will do the same & we have the right to do so.

If you wanna take an ONS survey as accurate even though many people are seeing different thats fine.
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Deary...Of course I'm dismissive of individual limited experiences, because, (largely speaking) they are irrelevant. Experiences based on limited exposure are bound to vary wildly. The area you live in, the type of shop, the time of day, basic chance and human factors (like exaggeration) will all play a part in colouring those individual experiences.

The point I have made all along, is that those limited interactions, whilst colouring peoples opinion of the issue, do not reflect the reality, which is that overall, the public are complying with the mask-wearing requirement.

As for your 'Floored Medium' (I can only assumed that someone has punched Gypsy Petrulengo?), whilst surveys may not be 100% accurate, they are unquestionably more accurate than random adecdotal evidence, based on limited personal experience.

So if you and others want to base their assesment of the situation on your 5 minute visit to the local corner shop, then that's fine, but you should do so knowing that there is far more accurate information out there and those who are making the decisions will be using the accurate data, as opposed to your massively flawed data.

👍
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I deal with Cruzzer in the way he deals with everyone else. Plus he was clearly telling porkies .

I haven't "condecendingly rubbished what she said" you have honed in on a tiny part of what I said (actually proving my point here tbf) and ignored everything apart from the bit about your wife that you had already decided you would be irked about, before I had even posted.

What I actually did, was accept your point (in part) and offer a few different reasons why your wifes experience might be different to your own. In addition, I made the observation, that your wife will be no digfferent than other humans and also be prone to a certain amount of exaggeration. So to that extent, what is stated as 75% is likely to be more like 85 or maybe 90%.

Incidentally, if you are triggered by someone questioning your wifes experience, in a very reasonable way, then perhaps it would be best not to involve her in the discussion?
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Answer your PM, you’ve crossed the line by having a pop at my son.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The point I have made all along, is that those limited interactions, whilst colouring peoples opinion of the issue, do not reflect the reality, which is that overall, the public are complying with the mask-wearing requirement.

As for your 'Floored Medium' (I can only assumed that someone has punched Gypsy Petrulengo?), whilst surveys may not be 100% accurate, they are unquestionably more accurate than random adecdotal evidence, based on limited personal experience.

So if you and others want to base their assesment of the situation on your 5 minute visit to the local corner shop, then that's fine, but you should do so knowing that there is far more accurate information out there and those who are making the decisions will be using the accurate data, as opposed to your massively flawed data.

👍
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Bifster you certainly dont seem dismissive of your own individual limited experience?
I was suggesting a good number of other peoples experiences are not collating with ONS stats. Perhaps you need to visit different stores or go at differing times?
Mid morning to 3pm i find very compliant as it is peak time for housewifes, the elderly & infirm.

I highly doubt your ONS surveyor types will be in shops later in the evening.

Certainly not in areas where there is far higher chance of non compliance. The majority will likely knock off at 4pm & go home for their scones.

I dont blame them tbf.
Who fancies taking the risk of getting headbutted by some of the later mob?

So we will have to agree to disagree 👍

Im obviously right tho! 🤪🤣
 
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