The New Track and Trace App

You are assuming the app will correctly identify that you have been in sufficient proximity to someone who was affected to justify that
Most people can't justify sitting at home on SSP for two weeks on the off-chance they might be infected and if they can't get a test they can't actually find out
Generally you know if you have
a/ been in a one-to-one chat within 1m or
b/ in the comply of someone for 15 mins or more within 2m
of someone infected when it's put to you
With this you likely won't
And that's why people won't sign up
I think that cuts both ways.. In fairness, you are assuming that an APP that has been months in development and which the NHS has presumably tested and released will have significant and fundamental flaws. I'd argue that if there are issues, they will be limited and the alternative of not using it vs using it (along with the potential to saves lives) warrants it's use.

As we've already discovered, plenty of people can work at home where required and the testing system is being ramped up (though it is never going to realistically be capable of testing all these asymptomatic cases). Not only that, but we'e all got our own common sense as the ultimate judge here... If we are making a concerted effort to wear masks, wash our hands and, in particular, Social Distance, then we ought to know whether or not the information received from the App is a bit iffy or not and make a judgement accordingly.

As others have said, there's also options to modify your behaviour...So perhaps wear a mask to work,take extra care not to come into close contact with people etc...

For me it's far better to be armed with the information and participating to get this thing working quickly for the benefit of everyone and totally ignore that informatiuon if you really want to, than to not bother with it at all (which really get us nowhere).

We're all in the same boat and whether it's a dodgy vaccine, stupid masks or this app, we need to try and make the best of it for our collective benefit.
 
What do you mean.....people that test positive but are really negative......?......or people who are negative that are really positive.....?
Let me just think about that question for a bit and how you would quantify that......

False negative is a standard term in the field, it is the proportion of infected people that get a negative result despite being infected.

In a laboratory setting it is about 1%, in the field, for symptomatic patients it's more like 20% - 30% and for asymptomatic patients I've seen suggestions that it's over 50% link if you want to check.


OK......I just get people to shove a swab up their nose......... I do have a source to support that.....next silly question?

There's no such thing as a silly question, only silly answers, an area you seem to specialise in.
 
The point is if you are told by the app to self-isolate you presumably will want to get tested before returning to work but you aren't eligible unless you have symptoms

To repeat my earlier point, for an asymptomatic individual the test simply cannot say that you don't have the disease with anywhere near the certainty that is needed to be useful.

So your choice is:
  • don't have the information from the app;
  • have the information from the app and use it as you see fit.
 
I feel it’s got to be done, downloaded this morning. It will be interesting to see what opinions are if the death rate shoots up.
I visit this forum for my footy fix and figure the more we do ourselves to keep the death rate down the quicker I can start enjoying my Saturdays again.
 
I feel it’s got to be done, downloaded this morning. It will be interesting to see what opinions are if the death rate shoots up.
I visit this forum for my footy fix and figure the more we do ourselves to keep the death rate down the quicker I can start enjoying my Saturdays again.
I just can’t see the harm in it to be honest. Not sure if I’m missing the obvious 🤔 but for the effort involved on my part I’m in 👍
 
Just downloaded app. FY2 high risk area apparently so glad I have.
Rumours of 3 people testing positive in my office block today so taking no chances 👍
 
I downloaded it this morning.
Hey If it can help stem the spread of a worldwide pandemic why not do our bit?

It was imho far too slow to arrive but hey ho we have it now.

The more interesting question is should it be compulsory as in some Countries?

I honestly doubt the conspiracy theorists & non mask wearing. non social distancing, Im alright jack types will download it & do their bit?

Unfortunately they are probably the folk who it would benefit most.

But to borrow a phrase from a large supermarket brand who I may or may not have little time for.......... Every Little Helps.
 
Last edited:
It was high in FY2 yesterday when I signed up so inevitable.
Im not going to moan, just do as I’m told as I’m no medical expert.
 
My income could well take a big hit due to the new restrictions and it looks like the financial support we got last time won't be available. Under these circumstances I can't justify the cost of buying a new phone until I'm more certain where I stand financially. The app won't work on the old but otherwise perfectly adequate device I own. As a result I won't be downloading it as things stand.
 
Report on BBC this evening that some people are getting frustrated with it.

Receive a notification to self isolate. Get a test if you can.

If you’re tested and come out positive you’re given a code to feed back to the app. No doubt told to continue to self isolate.

If you’re tested and come out negative you’re not given a code so can’t feed back to the app. So you continue to receive notices that you should self isolate: even though you’ve been tested negative.
 
Report on BBC this evening that some people are getting frustrated with it.

Receive a notification to self isolate. Get a test if you can.

If you’re tested and come out positive you’re given a code to feed back to the app. No doubt told to continue to self isolate.

If you’re tested and come out negative you’re not given a code so can’t feed back to the app. So you continue to receive notices that you should self isolate: even though you’ve been tested negative.
I'm not sure that's 100% correct TBF, but no surprises that it's being jumped on.

AFAIK, the problem is with tests that have taken place in certrain settings...Tests conducted as a result of notification from the app should be fine.
 
Times piece on it Millions of people are unable to use the government’s flagship coronavirus tracing app after five key flaws emerged within days of its launch.The NHS Covid-19 app was finally made available for download on Thursday, five months after its creation was announced by Matt Hancock, the health secretary. He had previously insisted the app would be a vital tool in defeating Covid-19, boasting it would “hunt down and isolate the virus so it’s unable to reproduce”. Almost £11m was spent on an earlier version abandoned in June.Yet the new app has already received a flood of complaints from frustrated users and a series of failings is severely limiting its effectiveness.Last week the chief executive of the company that developed the new app described it as “rock solid”. Baroness Dido Harding, chair of NHS Test and Trace which is responsible for the app and who was appointed by Hancock, promised the app would “help us to reach more people quickly in their communities to prevent further spread of the virus”.But yesterday it emerged tests taken as a result of the Office for National Statistics surveys, and all those taken via the NHS or Public Health England, cannot be shared on the app.

It is not clear how many test results would be affected by this but some experts fear it could mean as many as a third or up to half of all tests could be incompatible with the new app.On Friday, the day after the app launched, more than 96,000 people tested in England were unable to enter their results. As a result, thousands of other people who had been in close proximity to those with positive results will never be notified.The NHS Test and Trace website said: “If your test took place in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital, or as part of national surveillance testing conducted by the Office for National Statistics, test results cannot currently be linked with the app whether they’re positive or negative. We are working to make this available as soon as possible.”Technology expert Benedict Evans branded the app for England and Wales a “shambles”. “A contact tracing app is based on people with a positive test entering that into the app. But the English app that just launched is incompatible with tests done by the NHS.” Both Scotland and Northern Ireland have already introduced their own individual contact tracing apps, which users can switch to should they visit either country.SPONSORED
9 post-lockdown transition tips every manager should know
9 post-lockdown transition tips every manager should know

The perfect high-powered hybrid for your post-lockdown adventures
The perfect high-powered hybrid for your post-lockdown adventures

Evans added: “We’re six months into this and the UK still doesn’t have a unified test result system.”Jon Ashworth, the shadow health secretary, said the situation “beggars belief”, adding: “How can this app be effective if someone is unable to link up their tests carried out by the NHS or tests carried out for surveillance?He said: “This weekend ministers have thrown cash at promoting this app across local and national newspapers, they need to outline on Monday how they will quickly fix this flaw.”The latest version was piloted among residents of both areas as well as NHS volunteers from mid-August, after the first app was marred by technical issues and eventually scrapped.But people who test negative for coronavirus are also unable to share the result with the new app if they did not book the test through it in the first place. It asks for a code to register a test result but a code is only received if the test is positive.The flaw means that all those who tell the app that they have symptoms without entering a result find a self-isolation countdown begins even if they have tested negative.
TIMES RADIO
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio
Deborah Ryan, professor of design history at the University of Portsmouth who appears in the popular BBC2 series A House Through Time, said she was “surprised” to find she couldn’t enter her negative test result. “Apparently the only way I can stop the app continuing to tell me to self-isolate is if I delete it,” she added.
Millions of users are unable to download the app in the first place because of the age of their phone.
Apple iPhones need to be running the iOS 13.5 version of the firm’s software, released last year but available to devices several years older, while users of Google’s Android require version 6.0, which was rolled out in 2015. The government believes that about 13% of smartphone owners in England and Wales have non-compatible technology. Many of these will be older people, who are less likely to have the latest technology but among the most at risk of coronavirus in society.
A fourth flaw uncovered by users yesterday found that people living several miles away from the Welsh border in England are wrongly being referred to Welsh Covid-19 guidelines. Some of the instructions were also sent to them in Welsh.
There was also concern among NHS and social care staff since bringing their phone to their workplace could result in them erroneously being marked as “exposed” on the app despite wearing personal protection equipment. The Department for Health and Social Care said staff in such a situation should pause the contact tracing feature. But there were fears pausing it for a 12-hour shift could mean the app misses infected people that are not patients who staff come into contact with.
Concerns have also been raised that one in three people told to isolate will be a false positive, meaning the app reported wrongly that they were 2m or less from an infected person for 15 minutes or more.
The app is powered by an Apple and Google-developed system, using Bluetooth to keep an anonymous log of people a user has been close to. It does this by exchanging randomised keys while the Bluetooth signal strength measures proximity.
If someone falls ill, they should be able to tell the app, which will then ping their keys to a central server and in turn send them off to all app users in search of a match. Should the system determine a person as a close contact, they will be automatically sent a notification and issued with further guidance.
Zuhlke Engineering was awarded more than £5m across two contracts for development of the app. The company’s chief executive, Wolfgang Emmerich, said developers would continue to improve it over the next six months.
Hancock said the “vast majority” of people had the right smartphone software to download the app, but added that some may need to upgrade their phone’s operating systems. He said: “The more people who download this app, the more effective it will be.”
The Department of Health and Social Care said: “We are urgently working to enable positive tests for people who aren’t already given a code to be added to the COVID-19 App.
“NHS Test and Trace will continue to contact people by text, email or phone if your test is positive advising you to self-isolate and for those who don’t have a code, the contact tracers will shortly be able to provide codes to insert in the app.
“If you book your test via the app the results will be automatically recorded in the app and the isolation countdown will be updated.”
 
Yet the app has a rating of 4.5!! (Which btw is pretty damned high for any app).

Typical media overreaction ...

The app was going always going to be slaughtered regardless.

As any kind of app is released and users start to interact with it, bugs and problems will be identified (it’s inevitable) and par for the course with this kind of technology. That’s one reason Apps are subject to regular updates.

These issues will be quickly resolved...
 
The point is if you are told by the app to self-isolate you presumably will want to get tested before returning to work but you aren't eligible unless you have symptoms
Yep, I've just had this with one of my staff at work. Had to isolate for 2 weeks, no symptoms, so couldn't get a test. Luckily, for him he gets paid for his first isolation period - if this happens again, its sick pay.
 
Yep, I've just had this with one of my staff at work. Had to isolate for 2 weeks, no symptoms, so couldn't get a test. Luckily, for him he gets paid for his first isolation period - if this happens again, its sick pay.
He's lucky in a way Plenty will be straight onto SSP with three waiting days
 
Just out of curiousity, does anyone know if it pre-warns people about whether they are about to enter a potential 'high infection' area or does it just replort back to you after the event?
When I put our postcode in it said high risk area.
 
Why is anyone surprised that the SERCO app will only work with tests taken by privatised hea!th organisations and not with public service run tests. It's as though the government is continuing with its it's privatisation of the Health Service despite lying about this at the last general election.
Incidentally it seems that Kenya (Yes KENYA) is now more proactive in dealing with corruption than the stinkingly corrupt Conservative government of this country.

 
Why is anyone surprised that the SERCO app will only work with tests taken by privatised hea!th organisations and not with public service run tests. It's as though the government is continuing with its it's privatisation of the Health Service despite lying about this at the last general election.
Incidentally it seems that Kenya (Yes KENYA) is now more proactive in dealing with corruption than the stinkingly corrupt Conservative government of this country.


This is not unexpected with new software.

Take Apple - they released ios14 last week and have already released patches for it.

You never know for sure what will and will not work until it’s in the open.

The real measure here is how quick they fix problems.

That’s how Software Engineering works and why you get loads of updates for stuff all the time!!!!
 
Have listened to all opinions and the app has problems but its success is dependent on people downloading it and using it
Can't see the harm as it Gould be effective on getting on top of this virus
Also surprised at number of people saying no chance and many of the same people saying they won't have the vaccine ffs ?!?
Way too much scaremongering
My opinion use app ,protect the vulnerable as number 1 priority and get on with life
Oh yeah get your flu jab
 
I must have just squeezed in with an iPhone 6 probably because I’ve always updated the software. Not had anything notification wise yet but it’s only been a few days. 🤞
 
Anti-lockdown, anti-vaccers, anti-app, anti-5G.

Same people every time who won't listen to the Chief Medical Officer or the Chief Scientific Officer but are quite happy to listen to and believe any old tripe on social media being peddled by God knows who and for what reason.
 
Anti-lockdown, anti-vaccers, anti-app, anti-5G.

Same people every time who won't listen to the Chief Medical Officer or the Chief Scientific Officer but are quite happy to listen to and believe any old tripe on social media being peddled by God knows who and for what reason.

Is that a serious comment or a wind up, Wiz? Genuine question as the official health advice - to my mind at least - has been abysmal. Stay at Home (Vit D is now encouraged/most common place for transmission is household), Don't Wear Masks (now mandated), discharge Covid infected patients into care homes, close schools (children now proven to provide protective cross immunity), Covid prioritised over cancer treatment, staggered school start times (kick everyone out of the pub at 10 prompt). The list is endless. Most of which, ironically enough, is usually announced on Twitter the night before by Hancock or Pfeffel.

If you were going to write a manual on how to manage Covid-19, you'd say 'do the opposite of the UK'. Don't get me started on mental health - the amount of people with OCDs and/or anxiety disorders has sky rocketed. I'm amazed that anyone could have any faith whatsoever in our public health figures.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is that a serious comment or a wind up, Wiz? Genuine question as the official health advice - to my mind at least - has been abysmal. Stay at Home (Vit D is now encouraged/most common place for transmission is household), Don't Wear Masks (now mandated), discharge Covid infected patients into care homes, close schools (children now proven to provide protective cross immunity), Covid prioritised over cancer treatment, staggered school start times (kick everyone out of the pub at 10 prompt). The list is endless. Most of which, ironically enough, is usually announced on Twitter the night before by Hancock or Pfeffel.

If you were going to write a manual on how to manage Covid-19, you'd say 'do the opposite of the UK'. Don't get me started on mental health - the amount of people with OCDs and/or anxiety disorders has sky rocketed. I'm amazed that anyone could have any faith whatsoever in our public health figures.
Stay at home is the right advice if there's only your household in it. It's cross infection from having your pissed up mates round that causes the transmission.

Given that the population is staying at home of course the infection rate is highest there. It's the same logic that says stay away from hospitals because they're full of sick people, or most people involved in traffic accidents are on the road, so stay off them.

And your key point is that advice published is political from Hancock or Johnson and not scientifically based.
 
Stay at home is the right advice if there's only your household in it. It's cross infection from having your pissed up mates round that causes the transmission.

Given that the population is staying at home of course the infection rate is highest there. It's the same logic that says stay away from hospitals because they're full of sick people, or most people involved in traffic accidents are on the road, so stay off them.

And your key point is that advice published is political from Hancock or Johnson and not scientifically based.
You miss my point which is that the government's public health response has been botched. Most people have lost faith in the advice - with good reason. Almost every day there is a new madcap scheme. To unquestioningly follow the ever changing diktats would be barmy. Conversely, to probe and check information given does not make someone a conspiracy nut either. I am surprised you are getting so pointed about highlighting such obvious and harmless truths. There seems to be a feeling that if everyone believed enough, it'll all go away. That to me is for the birds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: no9
In answer to the o/p, it doesn’t work on my iPhone 6. Can I get a government grant for an upgrade?
 
You miss my point which is that the government's public health response has been botched. Most people have lost faith in the advice - with good reason. Almost every day there is a new madcap scheme. To unquestioningly follow the ever changing diktats would be barmy. Conversely, to probe and check information given does not make someone a conspiracy nut either. I am surprised you are getting so pointed about highlighting such obvious and harmless truths. There seems to be a feeling that if everyone believed enough, it'll all go away. That to me is for the birds.
I agree totally with you, but I can't keep saying it's the Government's fault or Scara will explode.
 
Even though it is!

They don't listen to the health advisers, that's their problem they try and do what the country want most at the time and keep changing things to try and follow popular opinion in a hope to remain popular, but by doing this they just keep getting it wrong and are never in front but always a couple of miles behind trying to catch up. They should have made some tough, unpopular choices at the start, followed the advice of the experts instead of trying to please everyone.
 
Just received an unsolicited text asking me to download the app.

This is after 3 years plus of being warned about cyber crime and how you should never, never, never click on a link unless you’re absolutely sure it’s genuine.

Either criminals are exploiting the situation to get you to download spyware onto your phone or the Government are demonstrating incredible, breathtaking stupidity.

Either way do NOT click on links in e mails or texts you’re not expecting. If you want the app, go and look for it. And make sure it’s genuine.
 
Just listening to the news this morning and mention was made of the fact that the police have imposed a blanket ban on their officers downloading the app due to inconsistencies in which police issued devices work and which don’t
Apparently the app has been downloaded 12m times though
 
Can any of the oh-so clever people using the app tell me why you only check into a venue but not out?
 
At the end of the day imagine how much worse it would be with Kier Smarmy in charge.
Why? Where does it get you? The here and now is more than grim enough under bumbling Bozo. Even he has said the instructions his Government have put out are confusing. Marvellous leadership from the top.
 
Can any of the oh-so clever people using the app tell me why you only check into a venue but not out?
Because you sign in if you intend staying more than 15 minutes which is the recognised contact risk time. It really doesn't matter if you stay 16 minutes or three hours, you've been in a potential contact zone.

Here to help.
 
Because you sign in if you intend staying more than 15 minutes which is the recognised contact risk time. It really doesn't matter if you stay 16 minutes or three hours, you've been in a potential contact zone.

Here to help.

So the app has you logged as being in that locale right up until closing time, even if you only went for breakfast? But you will only get a notification if you were within a certain proximity for a certain amount of time? Just wondering what purpose the logging in element serves.
 
So the app has you logged as being in that locale right up until closing time, even if you only went for breakfast? But you will only get a notification if you were within a certain proximity for a certain amount of time? Just wondering what purpose the logging in element serves.
There's no need to log in if you're going to be less than 15 mins.
 
Why? Where does it get you? The here and now is more than grim enough under bumbling Bozo. Even he has said the instructions his Government have put out are confusing. Marvellous leadership from the top.
Do’nt you think that shadow Labour minister who disgustingy said” Don’t let a good crisis go to waste” be sacked? If not why not?
 
Last edited:
Do’nt you think that shadow Labour minister who disgustingy said” Don’t let a good crisis go to waste” be sacked? If not why not?
I have no idea what you're talking about so can't comment.

And anyway, I think the current Government have set the bar on where sackings go, and offensive comments aren't in the same league as killing pensioners or ruining people's futures with an educational fiasco for starters.

When Williamson or Hancock or Cummings are held to account then you might have a case.
 
Back
Top