the price of football (sic)

B

basilrobbie3

Well-known member
This article is not an easy read, but it accurately describes a failure on an epic scale. And a really sad one, too, if you are at all romantic about the great names in English football.


theesk.org

The crisis created by Moshiri deepens – is administration an option?

Warren Buffet once said “Time is the friend of the wonderful company, the enemy of the mediocre.” Time is certainly running out for Everton. Hamstrung by the indifference and intransigence …
theesk.org theesk.org
 
Halifax71 said:
"A total, I estimate, in excess of £1 billion."😲
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Plus the not protected creditors!! And how much can the Stadium, players and a few properties be worth? I mean they haven't even added the cost of just playing football, the players wages, buying new players, selling players at a loss, surely if it is 1 Billion they wouldn't be anywhere near that figure, way off it. To be honest it's about time the authorities threw the book at these clubs, it's ridiculous.

Weren't Everton one of the clubs who have voted against the EPL money going to the EFL? They may be needing some of that when they are in League 1.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Plus the not protected creditors!! And how much can the Stadium, players and a few properties be worth? I mean they haven't even added the cost of just playing football, the players wages, buying new players, selling players at a loss, surely if it is 1 Billion they wouldn't be anywhere near that figure, way off it. To be honest it's about time the authorities threw the book at these clubs, it's ridiculous.

Weren't Everton one of the clubs who have voted against the EPL money going to the EFL? They may be needing some of that when they are in League 1.
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Completely unsustainable, and in my opinion cheating. They're paying for players that they can't afford, to the detriment of relegated teams. I've very limited, in fact no sympathy.
 
No real sympathy for them. Spent recklessly beyond their means and always seem to scrape out of relegation year after year. They aren't a likeable fan base...hounded Bill Kenwright out that was probably detrimental to his health and even wouldn't let a legend like Graham Sharp into the ground. Abused Anthony Gordon , one of their brightest young players in the street . No wonder he couldn't get out of there fast enough.
At the end of the day they'll end up playing in a new super stadium and the large fanbase will sustain them whatever happens. A drop down the leagues would probably do them good.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
They were extremely supportive of BST in the early years, when friends were thin on the ground.
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They were not only supportive of BST, they’ve also shown solidarity to us during the Boycott and at the court hearings. If i remember rightly representatives from both Everton and Liverpool have turned up in support.
 
The game is foooked.

On one hand everyone feels clubs should live within their means and have no sympathy for clubs running up big debts on overpaid players.

Then the next thread fans are saying Sadler is not investing enough in players and players wages. He’s ’only’ spending £5m more than the club can afford every season. He needs to invest more.

Players are just paid way way way too much at all levels. That is the only issue.
 
Chunkylad said:
The game is foooked.

On one hand everyone feels clubs should live within their means and have no sympathy for clubs running up big debts on overpaid players.

Then the next thread fans are saying Sadler is not investing enough in players and players wages. He’s ’only’ spending £5m more than the club can afford every season. He needs to invest more.

Players are just paid way way way too much at all levels. That is the only issue.
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Are they though? Where should the money actually go?

As long as the money is going to clubs then who else should get it?
 
Chunkylad said:
The game is foooked.

On one hand everyone feels clubs should live within their means and have no sympathy for clubs running up big debts on overpaid players.

Then the next thread fans are saying Sadler is not investing enough in players and players wages. He’s ’only’ spending £5m more than the club can afford every season. He needs to invest more.

Players are just paid way way way too much at all levels. That is the only issue.
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Spot on !
 
td53 said:
Are they though? Where should the money actually go?

As long as the money is going to clubs then who else should get it?
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Good question - where should it go?

Clubs get money from ticket sales, sponsors and TV etc. Should wages be within those budgets?

Should tickets for fans be a lower price at the detriment of players?
 
Chunkylad said:
Good question - where should it go?

Clubs get money from ticket sales, sponsors and TV etc. Should wages be within those budgets?

Should tickets for fans be a lower price at the detriment of players?
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Any club owner should really be investing in wedding venues, mammoths, fashion houses run by their nieces, and paying for numerous lawyers to stop scurrilous attacks by fans who know nothing.

Surely?
 
It’s interesting to look at the state of the German game in comparison to ours.

The general standard in the Bundesliga is now well below that of the Premier League.

But fans accept that as a price of having a say in their clubs. They like their day out at the football, they want to win but realise you don’t always win and the most important thing is to have a club there for the next generation.

The recent campaign there by fans to disrupt games, in order to resist a plan to sell a slice of media rights, was successful.

It’s totally different to a lot of fans here, particularly in the EPL, who simply want their club to spaff money up the wall. With no regard to the longer term consequences…

isn’t it this week that we hear what Forest’s punishment will be for FFP breaches?

And it sounds like it’s coming down the road for Leicester City, who the EFL contended had broken the rules as long ago as their promotion season of 2013? Leicester settled for a £3.1m payment to the EFL and certainly prospered on the back of it..
 
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hampshire_exile said:
It’s interesting to look at the state of the German game in comparison to ours.

The general standard in the Bundesliga is now well below that of the Premier League.

But fans accept that as a price of having a say in their clubs. They like their day out at the football, they want to win but realise you don’t always win and the most important thing is to have a club there for the next generation.

The recent campaign there by fans to disrupt games, in order to resist a plan to sell a slice of media rights, was successful.

It’s totally different to a lot of fans here, particularly in the EPL, who simply want their club to spaff money up the wall. With no regard to the longer term consequences…

isn’t it this week that we hear what Forest’s punishment will be for FFP breaches?

And it sounds like it’s coming down the road for Leicester City, who the EFL contended had broken the rules as long ago as their promotion season of 2013? Leicester settled for a £3.1m payment to the EFL and certainly prospered on the back of it..
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What's all this 'you don't always win'?

Have you read this board?
 
td53 said:
Are they though? Where should the money actually go?

As long as the money is going to clubs then who else should get it?
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It’s a massive vicious circle really and its impossible to resolve in my opinion.

If the revenue earned (and often much more) is not spent on attracting and retaining the very best players, then the value of the product goes down and ultimately the T.V. revenue is reduced.

So it really doesn’t matter what you do…, Ultimately the player wages and revenue will reach an equilibrium.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s a massive vicious circle really and its impossible to resolve in my opinion.

If the revenue earned (and often much more) is not spent on attracting and retaining the very best players, then the value of the product goes down and ultimately the T.V. revenue is reduced.

So it really doesn’t matter what you do…, Ultimately the player wages and revenue will reach an equilibrium.
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But they haven’t reached an equilibrium have they? They are further away than ever.

And we arrive at a situation where EPL relegation is being influenced by the repeated inability of teams to get anywhere near very generous FFP rules. 4 points just deducted from Forest……
 
hampshire_exile said:
But they haven’t reached an equilibrium have they? They are further away than ever.

And we arrive at a situation where EPL relegation is being influenced by the repeated inability of teams to get anywhere near very generous FFP rules. 4 points just deducted from Forest……
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Well yes they have reached an equilibrium… They always do ..

The unfortunate thing seems to be that ‘equilibrium’ leaves most clubs in deficit or at least sailing very close to the wind.

That situation won’t change by the stringent implementation of wage controls. All that will happen then is that better players will be attracted to play in other leagues, the EPL ‘product’ is devalued and revenue will fall, thereby bringing clubs back into a deficit position once more.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Well yes they have reached an equilibrium… They always do ..

The unfortunate thing seems to be that ‘equilibrium’ leaves most clubs in deficit or at least sailing very close to the wind.

That situation won’t change by the stringent implementation of wage controls. All that will happen then is that better players will be attracted to play in other leagues, the EPL ‘product’ is devalued and revenue will fall, thereby bringing clubs back into a deficit position once more.
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Devalued or more equitable competition?
 
Wizaard said:
Devalued or more equitable competition?
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It’s devalued… simple as that… The subscription viewer wants to see the very best players, the cream of the crop.. They’re not interested in concepts like ‘equity’ and fair play.

You either give them what they want or they flick to the next channel and vote with their remote.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Well yes they have reached an equilibrium… They always do ..

The unfortunate thing seems to be that ‘equilibrium’ leaves most clubs in deficit or at least sailing very close to the wind.
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Equilibrium implies balance. And a situation whereby (as you correctly say) most clubs are incurring significant losses is ipso facto not balanced.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s devalued… simple as that… The subscription viewer wants to see the very best players, the cream of the crop.. They’re not interested in concepts like ‘equity’ and fair play.

You either give them what they want or they flick to the next channel and vote with their remote.
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As someone who spends his weekends watching live Pool games, fuck the subscription viewer, and even more the pirate viewers who contribute the sum total of nothing to my club.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Equilibrium implies balance. And a situation whereby (as you correctly say) most clubs are incurring significant losses is ipso facto not balanced.
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It is balance Robbie… That’s where things ‘balance out’. You can’t / won’t change that, because ultimately it’s the spending that drives the revenue.

So ‘balance’ in football economic terms, will always see some clubs spending more than they earn.


Wizaard said:
As someone who spends his weekends watching live Pool games, fuck the subscription viewer, and even more the pirate viewers who contribute the sum total of nothing to my club.
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That’s easy to say, but ultimately the point is that ‘** the subscription viewer’ doesn’t resolve the issue or give you the outcome you desire… Arguably it just makes the situation worse.

For Club’s like ours the revenue from TV rights actually has the effect of creating more of an even field in some respects.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It is balance Robbie… That’s where things ‘balance out’. You can’t / won’t change that, because ultimately it’s the spending that drives the revenue.

So ‘balance’ in football economic terms, will always see some clubs spending more than they earn.




That’s easy to say, but ultimately the point is that ‘** the subscription viewer’ doesn’t resolve the issue or give you the outcome you desire… Arguably it just makes the situation worse.

For Club’s like ours the revenue from TV rights actually has the effect of creating more of an even field in some respects.
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It's a fundamentally unhealthy position which is not in any way "balanced", in the way that I understand the word. You seem to arguing that a multi-billion pound industry should be setting for a default position that involves making individual and collective losses. No other industry in the world would swallow that.

And I'd love you to explain to me how a situation whereby half a dozen parachute clubs get over half the EPL's TV money is in any way an even playing field. Better still, explain it to Mr. Sadler.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
It's a fundamentally unhealthy position which is not in any way "balanced", in the way that I understand the word. You seem to arguing that a multi-billion pound industry should be setting for a default position that involves making individual and collective losses. No other industry in the world would swallow that.

And I'd love you to explain to me how a situation whereby half a dozen parachute clubs get over half the EPL's TV money is in any way an even playing field. Better still, explain it to Mr. Sadler.
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It’s ‘balanced’ in the sense that, as I alluded to, that is what is necessary in order for equilibrium (and I mean that in the sense that revenue does not start to go into decline) is achieved.

What I’m saying is that the industry has absolutely no choice in the default position and nor do you or the government or anyone else who might choose to try and impose their will without an understanding of how that will ultimately impact.

You’re correct that very few industries in the world would tolerate or accept the circumstances we see in football, but football does….

In many ways it’s not dissimilar to the situation we find ourselves in with regard to Climate Change…. Logically speaking, economics shouldn’t really come into the equation, but they do…
 
Bollocks. The industry has a lot of choice about how it spends its broadcasting revenue and chooses to fabulously reward a tiny fraction of the people and clubs who make it what it is. All so they can lord it over La Liga.

I'm not sure your climate change analogy stands up either. That is about the survival of species and planet. It hardly merits the same balance of value judgements as the survival of Everton.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Bollocks. The industry has a lot of choice about how it spends its broadcasting revenue and chooses to fabulously reward a tiny fraction of the people and clubs who make it what it is. All so they can lord it over La Liga.

I'm not sure your climate change analogy stands up either. That is about the survival of species and planet. It hardly merits the same balance of value judgements as the survival of Everton.
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It has plenty of choice, but ultimately the market will dictate.

I think the analogy is perfectly apt… It demonstrates just how deep the economic drivers go. The fear of conceding economic advantage by unilaterally doing the right thing.

Of course in football terms, even if you could get global consensus for some kind l of wage cap, there would still be some reshuffling of the finances, based on the outcome of player / talent distribution.

I’m not saying it’s right by the way… Frankly, I think that football finances are all a bit sick, but that doesn’t mean there’s a solution. So you can regulate, control and implement as many rules as you want, but ultimately you’ll arrive back where you started….and more likely make the problem worse.

Football like economies, relies on growth.
 
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You’ve got to hand it to them on spending well beyond their means and managing to actually make the team far worse. Only Chelsea give them a run for their money in that one
 
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