Truss plans freeze on energy prices for a while then we have to pay back our debt.

Well some temporary relief anyway. They had to do it, but was worried they wouldn’t. Let’s see how it pans out.
Might as well have got at least some of the money back from the energy companies while they still could though.
 
glasshalffull said:
Well some temporary relief anyway. They had to do it, but was worried they wouldn’t. Let’s see how it pans out.
Might as well have got at least some of the money back from the energy companies while they still could though.
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I'm sure future governments will look at getting the money back, energy generation costs have not increased.
Essentially the proposal is that instead of paying for energy companies massive profits now, you and I pay for the energy extraction companies massive profits over the next 20 years.
 
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It doesn’t look like we pay it back individually. It looks like it will be recovered through taxes.

Similar to Starmers proposal in many ways though full details probably not know until Thursday.

An improvement on what we thought we were facing individually for sure.

I won’t say no and doubt many would and I believe the rate fixed for business too which will be a blessing for many.
 
Lala said:
It doesn’t look like we pay it back individually. It looks like it will be recovered through taxes.

Similar to Starmers proposal in many ways though full details probably not know until Thursday.

An improvement on what we thought we were facing individually for sure.

I won’t say no and doubt many would and I believe the rate fixed for business too which will be a blessing for many.
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Recovered through taxation means that we do have to pay for it individually (if you pay tax), just not through our electricity bills.
It is at least a plan to stop the immediate crisis.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Recovered through taxation means that we do have to pay for it individually (if you pay tax), just not through our electricity bills.
It is at least a plan to stop the immediate crisis.
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Just exactly how did Keir Starmer intend to repay it? Maybe the return of 'the magic money tree.' I could do with that right now.
 
basilexile said:
Just exactly how did Keir Starmer intend to repay it? Maybe the return of 'the magic money tree.' I could do with that right now.
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I don't know what his plans were so I cannot say. Labour did suggest a windfall tax which was adopted by the Tories and used for the winter fuel payments coming up.
I would guess that Labour would have taxed the energy generation companies a bit more who are basically printing money at the moment. Truss's plan (from what I understand) puts the whole of the cost on the UK working population and allows the energy companies to walk away with all of the extra money they have received for generating power (the costs of which have not risen).
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I don't know what his plans were so I cannot say. Labour did suggest a windfall tax which was adopted by the Tories and used for the winter fuel payments coming up.
I would guess that Labour would have taxed the energy generation companies a bit more who are basically printing money at the moment. Truss's plan (from what I understand) puts the whole of the cost on the UK working population and allows the energy companies to walk away with all of the extra money they have received for generating power (the costs of doing this have not risen).
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Agreed and in due course this may be dealt with. The energy companies will not keep making these excessive profits when the markets eventually settle down. a tax on them will help but in the near term if what is rumoured happens it will buy a lot of time for the hard pressed. What is to be seen is if people die in that period will the debts be carried forward to their estate and will the surviving partner shoulder all the remaining debt? To the most vulnerable it could leave them worse off in the long run.
 
basilexile said:
Agreed and in due course this may be dealt with. The energy companies will not keep making these excessive profits when the markets eventually settle down. a tax on them will help but in the near term if what is rumoured happens it will buy a lot of time for the hard pressed. What is to be seen is if people die in that period will the debts be carried forward to their estate and will the surviving partner shoulder all the remaining debt? To the most vulnerable it could leave them worse off in the long run.
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If Truss does nothing else, she should introduce legislation so that a large portion of the excess profits being made must be invested in the UK in renewable energy development (or R & D). The argument made against windfall taxation by Truss and co is that it stifles investment. In this way, both Truss and the UK tax payer would get something for the extra borrowing and debt repayment going forward.
 
It's a feasible solution, but you'd think if we're 'all in it together' as Tory politicians have often liked to say, you'd think these companies having some of their massive profits put towards helping would have been a compromise, rather than the tax payer further funding them.
 
TangoDave said:
So it's OK to have a magic money tree when the Tories need it, but if Labour plan to spend money it gets quoted in a negative way?!
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I Never said that, merely pointed out its saved thousands of jobs and businesses in a global pandemic. I suppose you would rather they didn't so you could throw even more vitriol at them to make you feel better.
 
TangoDave said:
So it's OK to have a magic money tree when the Tories need it, but if Labour plan to spend money it gets quoted in a negative way?!
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Yes it's absolutely fine to have a magic money tree during a pandemic or a cost of living crisis. Probably not so good to have one when things are a bit more settled and the world isn't in crisis.
 
Scaramanga said:
I Never said that, merely pointed out its saved thousands of jobs and businesses in a global pandemic. I suppose you would rather they didn't so you could throw even more vitriol at them to make you feel better.
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I'll only feel better when we have a government that represents the majority of people and carries out some real "levelling up". Our politics clearly differ.
 
Lala said:
It doesn’t look like we pay it back individually. It looks like it will be recovered through taxes.

Similar to Starmers proposal in many ways though full details probably not know until Thursday.

An improvement on what we thought we were facing individually for sure.

I won’t say no and doubt many would and I believe the rate fixed for business too which will be a blessing for many.
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Its too late for some businesses and why should people have to pay back what the Tories fcuked up in Thatchers reign when she privatised everything.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Yes it's absolutely fine to have a magic money tree during a pandemic or a cost of living crisis. Probably not so good to have one when things are a bit more settled and the world isn't in crisis.
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So what about the Tories nearly doubling debt to the tune of an extra 800 billion between 2010 and 2019?
 
TangoDave said:
Like spending on schools and hospitals
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Depends how it's spent. If it's just thrown around like confetti, a lot of it gets wasted and doesn't
get spent in the right places.
I was quite heavily involved with education spending under the Blair and Brown governments and going through
to the Tory/Lib Dem government.
Believe me, some of the waste would make your eyes water. There were some huge sums allocated by the government
and equally some huge sums wasted further down the chain.
 
foggy said:
So what about the Tories nearly doubling debt to the tune of an extra 800 billion between 2010 and 2019?
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What about it? I wasn't picking out any specific government. See my post above then perhaps you'll understand what I was
getting at in my original post.
 
TangoDave said:
I'll only feel better when we have a government that represents the majority of people and carries out some real "levelling up". Our politics clearly differ.
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That majority will put its x in box in 18 months, other than that it looks like your in for a wait.
 
Lost Seasider said:
How much was the annual deficit in 2009/10?
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It was 10%. You may have heard about this big thing that happened in 2008 called the global economic crash, or what you may call a cost of living crisis as the poster I was replying to stipulated. For the 10 years before that crash the deficit was tiny, less than 2% a year on average.

Not that I care. The UK will never default on its loans and has never. Worrying about the debt and 'magic money trees' is an incredibly dumbed down economics argument. The financial equivalent of that time Paul Ince was caught on camera writing 'shoot' on his notepad in the dugout while managing Blackburn.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Depends how it's spent. If it's just thrown around like confetti, a lot of it gets wasted and doesn't
get spent in the right places.
I was quite heavily involved with education spending under the Blair and Brown governments and going through
to the Tory/Lib Dem government.
Believe me, some of the waste would make your eyes water. There were some huge sums allocated by the government
and equally some huge sums wasted further down the chain.
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Anything like the eye-watering amounts wasted on test and trace?
 
How wou
TangoDave said:
Anything like the eye-watering amounts wasted on test and trace?
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How would I know the answer to that? I was only involved with one public authority on the education spend. If that were repeated over the country I've no doubt it would be a tidy sum.
 
foggy said:
It was 10%. You may have heard about this big thing that happened in 2008 called the global economic crash, or what you may call a cost of living crisis as the poster I was replying to stipulated. For the 10 years before that crash the deficit was tiny, less than 2% a year on average.

Not that I care. The UK will never default on its loans and has never. Worrying about the debt and 'magic money trees' is an incredibly dumbed down economics argument. The financial equivalent of that time Paul Ince was caught on camera writing 'shoot' on his notepad in the dugout while managing Blackburn.
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Your question was about the "Tories doubling the national debt", you seem to have forgotten the background as to how that happened, i.e. the deficit was £103bn p/a and it took them basically until 2018 to get on top of it.

And no, it wasn't all about the banking crisis, that contributed to a £40bn fall in tax revenues, the rest was Brown's recless spending before and after the crisis, a crisis that BTW, Brown was also instrumental in creating.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Your question was about the "Tories doubling the national debt", you seem to have forgotten the background as to how that happened, i.e. the deficit was £103bn p/a and it took them basically until 2018 to get on top of it.

And no, it wasn't all about the banking crisis, that contributed to a £40bn fall in tax revenues, the rest was Brown's recless spending before and after the crisis, a crisis that BTW, Brown was also instrumental in creating.
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So they failed then didn't they. The Tories said they would eliminate the deficit and they failed miserably. They convinced a load of voters that Labour would spend too much whereas they would get spending under control and they fucked it. Broken promises.

Oh, I'll take a source for 'the only effect of the banking crisis was a one time 40bn fall in tax revenue' please.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Your question was about the "Tories doubling the national debt", you seem to have forgotten the background as to how that happened, i.e. the deficit was £103bn p/a and it took them basically until 2018 to get on top of it.

And no, it wasn't all about the banking crisis, that contributed to a £40bn fall in tax revenues, the rest was Brown's recless spending before and after the crisis, a crisis that BTW, Brown was also instrumental in creating.
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History being rewritten, again.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Your question was about the "Tories doubling the national debt", you seem to have forgotten the background as to how that happened, i.e. the deficit was £103bn p/a and it took them basically until 2018 to get on top of it.

And no, it wasn't all about the banking crisis, that contributed to a £40bn fall in tax revenues, the rest was Brown's recless spending before and after the crisis, a crisis that BTW, Brown was also instrumental in creating.
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Brown was instrumental in creating the worldwide banking crisis. Comedy gold.

I find it amazing how everything is directly Labour's fault, yet this Government are a hostage to global conditions, and have no influence on anything.

It's almost like they weren't responsible for us leaving the second largest trading bloc in the world, and even then, it's had no effect on our economy.
 
Lala said:
So who do you want to pay for it ?
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Yes, it does make you wonder... When people say things like 'if it saves one life' or 'something must be done' what they mean exactly. How they envisage this being paid back. Obviously, the people will foot the bill eventually, it's just a case of whether it's sooner or later. It's like chasing credit card bills using credit cards.

Pay back over the next twenty years, all predicated on price rises being temporary of course and not the reality which is whenever Russia decide until. The only clear solution being we go to direct war with the Bear. Goody gumdrops. Starting to miss the Donald rubbing Putin's belly and doing his own haphazard but effect diplomacy.
 
Lost Seasider said:
It was gone by 2018.





Happy to oblige: https://www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/

£415bn in 2009/10, down from £456bn in 2007/08, back to £454bn in 2010/11.
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Nope. We've had a deficit every single year of the Conservative government. Our debt was 3x larger than what Cameron and Osborne pledged it would be by the end of their first term and we were supposed to be in surplus by 2018. They failed.

So, you've shown our tax receipts went down. Now, are you seriously suggesting loss in tax income is the only effect of a global economic crisis? Not one single other thing may cause extra spending too? Like, you know, the rise in unemployment?
 
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