We are doing everything right

Kip

Well-known member
What does that mean? Don't they amount to the same thing?
I just mean that Anderson and others have stepped up from L2 and look the part but Lubala hasn't yet. Unless Critchley has explicitly told Lubala to 'cut inside and barge through everyone' then he's yet to make any sort of impact. If you look at Kemp then he's clearly got a good first touch, positional sense and football brain; he's very small physically but you can see him making the step up sooner than later and pushing someone for their place. Nothing so far from Lubala like that for me. But he's played one and a bit games so lets see.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
I just mean that Anderson and others have stepped up from L2 and look the part but Lubala hasn't yet. Unless Critchley has explicitly told Lubala to 'cut inside and barge through everyone' then he's yet to make any sort of impact. If you look at Kemp then he's clearly got a good first touch, positional sense and football brain; he's very small physically but you can see him making the step up sooner than later and pushing someone for their place. Nothing so far from Lubala like that for me. But he's played one and a bit games so lets see.
Ok. NC said he's had no preseason. He may be an unsophisticated League Two player. But it's too early to know, really.
 
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td53

Well-known member
Wow thanks for the answers. They are genuine questions, not rhetorical ones.

I think you are right, our possession football protects the defence, which is the plan, I'm sure.

Yates closes down well, really grafts, but somehow he's not getting chances very often at all. I worry about his lack of pace. It's not everything, but speed to the ball would be useful.

Interesting Lubala comments. I've seen so little of him. How do you know this? Seems too soon to judge?

Ward or Keshi. I agree.

Sarkic has ability. I hope NC works out how to use it.

Coleman does seem to possess genius. How does he assess these loan signings?

Appleton. He spooks me out a bit. I can't see him being able to keep a squad happy and sorted for a long time, his personality must be hard to be around for any length of time?!

It's just my impression of him in the one and 3/4 games added to the statistics I've read on how he he plays which say "he shoots and dribbles. Everytime". It's probably unfair but like everyone, I trust my initial judgement implicitly. Like when I said KDH was just a headless chicken and I couldn't see what the fuss was about 30 seconds before he scored his first.

On the game he started he completely ignored Shaw getting in front of him in favour of cutting inside to try a shot. Against Liverpool he looked a bit lost and on Saturday he didn't do a lot, but to be fair, he didn't have long.

I see a very talented player who has been the main man at Crawley who know has to adapt to being one of many talented players and perhaps to adapt his game a little to suit that and the system we play.

I'm sure he'll manage that, but I think of the players we've got in, he might be the most raw.

He plays (so far) like I expected CJ to based on what I'd heard of him, but actually Hamilton seems to have a decent all round game. He is also 3 years older. It's just my impression, he might be a quick learner but it seems to be pretty hard wired, you get the ball, you run, you try and shoot.

Kaikai does infuriate but he's also a really, really good passer and some of his more subtle deeper work and awareness is brilliant. I do think he's actually more than the dribbler people have him down as and perhaps some (not all, he wasn't vintage by any means on Saturday) of the frustration comes from him not playing that role people expect him to. He is a bit of an enigma for sure, but I'd persist and like the rest of the front line, I think he needs something to fall for him.

I think Coleman has connections and is trusted. Send a player to Accy, they get games and a good education. I think his longevity is important, he'll have people he trusts all over football who trust him in return. He's also got the Midas touch with unwanted, washed up or unoticed players. What he's getting out of Dion Charles for example, what he got out of Billy Kee. Those are players that if we signed them, people would be raging but they've done great things.

I agree about Appleton, he's a bit grim.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
It's just my impression of him in the one and 3/4 games added to the statistics I've read on how he he plays which say "he shoots and dribbles. Everytime". It's probably unfair but like everyone, I trust my initial judgement implicitly. Like when I said KDH was just a headless chicken and I couldn't see what the fuss was about 30 seconds before he scored his first.

On the game he started he completely ignored Shaw getting in front of him in favour of cutting inside to try a shot. Against Liverpool he looked a bit lost and on Saturday he didn't do a lot, but to be fair, he didn't have long.

I see a very talented player who has been the main man at Crawley who know has to adapt to being one of many talented players and perhaps to adapt his game a little to suit that and the system we play.

I'm sure he'll manage that, but I think of the players we've got in, he might be the most raw.

He plays (so far) like I expected CJ to based on what I'd heard of him, but actually Hamilton seems to have a decent all round game. He is also 3 years older. It's just my impression, he might be a quick learner but it seems to be pretty hard wired, you get the ball, you run, you try and shoot.

Kaikai does infuriate but he's also a really, really good passer and some of his more subtle deeper work and awareness is brilliant. I do think he's actually more than the dribbler people have him down as and perhaps some (not all, he wasn't vintage by any means on Saturday) of the frustration comes from him not playing that role people expect him to. He is a bit of an enigma for sure, but I'd persist and like the rest of the front line, I think he needs something to fall for him.

I think Coleman has connections and is trusted. Send a player to Accy, they get games and a good education. I think his longevity is important, he'll have people he trusts all over football who trust him in return. He's also got the Midas touch with unwanted, washed up or unoticed players. What he's getting out of Dion Charles for example, what he got out of Billy Kee. Those are players that if we signed them, people would be raging but they've done great things.

I agree about Appleton, he's a bit grim.
Yes Lubala does look raw on the evidence so far. I wonder how much Critch knew about him? At 22 though, Critch likely thinks he just needs some better coaching than he's had so far, and time to develop, and has the raw ingredients. Time will tell. If he can beat players, that's a good start.
 
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td53

Well-known member
Yes Lubala does look raw on the evidence so far. I wonder how much Critch knew about him? At 22 though, Critch likely thinks he just needs some better coaching than he's had so far, and time to develop, and gas the raw ingredients. Time will tell. If he can beat players, that's a good start.

With coaching being Critch's strength, I'd be worried if we were only buying finished articles as it would show a disjointed approach. Given what Lubala's achieved thus far, with what seems to be a very simple but effective gameplan, if he can add a bit more all round play, then he should be ace! If anyone can add that, it should be Critch.
 

Wizzerboy

Well-known member
No. But there's room for improvement.
That's the liverpool way and I think Critchley is following that pattern.
If Blackpool finish above 12th this season they will have improved on last.

I think too many people were getting giddy after going from the old miserable rapey uncle not getting us any gifts to the younger more understanding friendly uncle who's getting us gift after gift.

This will take time, we may well be challenging by the end of the season but top 10 IS an improvement and if it carries on it'll be sooner rather than later before we're back in the championship.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
That's the liverpool way and I think Critchley is following that pattern.
If Blackpool finish above 12th this season they will have improved on last.

I think too many people were getting giddy after going from the old miserable rapey uncle not getting us any gifts to the younger more understanding friendly uncle who's getting us gift after gift.

This will take time, we may well be challenging by the end of the season but top 10 IS an improvement and if it carries on it'll be sooner rather than later before we're back in the championship.
My gut feeling is that Critchley will need a season to adjust to management and to develop the team. I wouldn't be expecting promotion this season, it would be exceptional if that happened. Let's make progress. The play offs would be significant progress.
 

Hazi

Well-known member
I like the fact the club have said promotion is the target, I like the positive attitude if at the end of the day we fall a little short I think we will all understand.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
I like the fact the club have said promotion is the target, I like the positive attitude if at the end of the day we fall a little short I think we will all understand.
I think our biggest opponent is Covid! Our promotion march could be upended by a microscopic organism much tinier than bacteria. Rather than by Darren Ferguson, or Kenny Jacket.
 

1966_and_all_that

Well-known member
Here's a story for you.

After one game we have no goals and no points.
After three games we have no goals and no points.
After eleven games, with a maximum possibility of 33 points, our stats read as follows:
Played. 11
Won. 1
Drawn. 5
Lost. 5
Goals for. 9
Goals against. 14
Points 8

End of season position:
3rd
Points 83
Promoted via the play offs.

One game does not a season make.
 

Hazi

Well-known member
Here's a story for you.

After one game we have no goals and no points.
After three games we have no goals and no points.
After eleven games, with a maximum possibility of 33 points, our stats read as follows:
Played. 11
Won. 1
Drawn. 5
Lost. 5
Goals for. 9
Goals against. 14
Points 8

End of season position:
3rd
Points 83
Promoted via the play offs.

One game does not a season make.
McMahon manager?
 

Wizzerboy

Well-known member
Here's a story for you.

After one game we have no goals and no points.
After three games we have no goals and no points.
After eleven games, with a maximum possibility of 33 points, our stats read as follows:
Played. 11
Won. 1
Drawn. 5
Lost. 5
Goals for. 9
Goals against. 14
Points 8

End of season position:
3rd
Points 83
Promoted via the play offs.

One game does not a season make.
Was the story from 2006/7 season
 

Spider29

Well-known member
Critchley has proved he can manage boys in under 23 football where results aren’t that important...
It’s about producing kids that can play premier league...
Can he man manage men and their egos when it’s all about winning and keeping all 22 happy...ish
Time will tell
 

voyeur

Well-known member
My gut feeling is that Critchley will need a season to adjust to management and to develop the team. I wouldn't be expecting promotion this season, it would be exceptional if that happened. Let's make progress. The play offs would be significant progress.
Said this 3 weeks ago, it's what I basically believe about the current situation. Why give a rookie manager a job and then sack him? It makes no sense unless things are going horribly wrong in an irredeemable way? You have to factor in the need for a new coach and a whole squad of new players to get used to the job, the club and each other and work things out.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I honestly don't know how the season will pan out result wise. I did expect more from the four games I've seen so far and there are quite clearly issues which need addressing. Hopefully the two new centre halves will help the defensive issues, especially from set pieces. I think there's still an issue up front with playing Yates down the middle. For me, he's clearly not a target man which is the role he's been asked to play.
What I do know though is that Critchley has been given all the backing he needed and now it's down to him to come up with the solutions. He's got the squad he wanted, he now has to fit it into the system he wants to play which he should realise can be changeable, It's important he gets the players in their best positions to maximise their potential.
I think at this early stage we have to trust him to do that even though at times it's painful to watch all the mistakes being made.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
I honestly don't know how the season will pan out result wise. I did expect more from the four games I've seen so far and there are quite clearly issues which need addressing. Hopefully the two new centre halves will help the defensive issues, especially from set pieces. I think there's still an issue up front with playing Yates down the middle. For me, he's clearly not a target man which is the role he's been asked to play.
What I do know though is that Critchley has been given all the backing he needed and now it's down to him to come up with the solutions. He's got the squad he wanted, he now has to fit it into the system he wants to play which he should realise can be changeable, It's important he gets the players in their best positions to maximise their potential.
I think at this early stage we have to trust him to do that even though at times it's painful to watch all the mistakes being made.
Key issue remaining is up front I think. It looks like we bought Yates to play centrally but it's not working thus far. If we can solve that we might be in business. I would try pushing Anderson up to left side of the attack, and I would try Sarkic in behind. See if that gets Yates firing, with an eye on the market for a striker to sign or loan.

I think we need to give Critchley a season to bed himself in and to develop a side and a system. we may come good and sneak up this season, we will probably have to wait til next season. I don't think changing coach would improve our chances. Remember, anyway, we got turned down by Robinson, Wellens and Jones, and maybe others. Always be careful what you wish for....
 

straightatthewall

Well-known member
The critical thing for me, is to see those mistakes being eradicated through the season (or minimized at least) as this implies progress is being made. Of course it would be great to hit the ground running, but we don't have the sort of cash available to attempt that and even if we did (like 2006/2007) it still took time for the team to really gel.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Key issue remaining is up front I think. It looks like we bought Yates to play centrally but it's not working thus far. If we can solve that we might be in business. I would try pushing Anderson up to left side of the attack, and I would try Sarkic in behind. See if that gets Yates firing, with an eye on the market for a striker to sign or loan.

I think we need to give Critchley a season to bed himself in and to develop a side and a system. we may come good and sneak up this season, we will probably have to wait til next season. I don't think changing coach would improve our chances. Remember, anyway, we got turned down by Robinson, Wellens and Jones, and maybe others. Always be careful what you wish for....
A season is too long imo Voy, although that's not to say his position should be under any threat. Sure, it takes time to work out systems and the players etc but in my view that system needs to be working pretty soon. That's not to say that it means we're gonna fly up the league and get automatic promotion because to play in the system the players still have to be good enough and I think there's still enough doubt over a few of them and their consistency levels.
 

62years&counting

Well-known member
There's a big difference in coaching cream of the crop young players to fit into the Lpool system of play as opposed to coaching lower level players, several in their mid 20's, and wanting them to play in a similar manner.
I just hope for Critchley's sake that the 2 recent centre back signings shore up our defence in league games and that he brings in a proven goalscorer. Yates and Lubala are not the answer in that regard, perhaps they're better out wide supporting the main striker?
 

LA1 Seasider

Well-known member
I think most sensible and reasonable Seasiders (and those with even a little knowledge of the beautiful game) recognise we’re not a finished article and that just signing players doesn’t change that.

The squad is now seemingly 99% assembled - Critchley now needs patience and time to get them playing his style of football and also get them playing as a team.

It then comes down to tweaking things and working on individual traits and attributes. None of this is an overnight fix.

I’d like to think there’s enough quality and know how to start winning games and grinding out positive results - but I doubt we’ll hit our stride and play to our true potential until the new year.

The longer the season goes on the better we’ll get. Should put us in a great position should we be in or around the play offs come seasons end.
 

BlackpoolsFinest

Well-known member
The way Yates is being used clearly isn't working, but his role in this formation is not as a target man; we don't use one.
The role of the central forward in this set up is to link the play from midfield to attack and bring the wide forwards in to the game.
As it stands, none of this is happening whatsoever, he doesn't seem to be doing anything at all.
He isn't dropping back to pick up the ball, he isn't playing in Lubala & CJ, he's anonymous.

It's a mess in all honesty, Ward is contributing very little and Anderson isn't getting forward enough to help create space for Yates.

I suppose whereas the defensive struggles are highlighted when there is an almighty balls-up and we concede, the attacking problems are more subtle yet just as significant.

There needs to be huge improvements in virtually every single position on the pitch, which will only come with time; judging by the last few games these problems aren't gonna disappear over night, no matter who we've got playing at centre half now.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
A season is too long imo Voy, although that's not to say his position should be under any threat. Sure, it takes time to work out systems and the players etc but in my view that system needs to be working pretty soon. That's not to say that it means we're gonna fly up the league and get automatic promotion because to play in the system the players still have to be good enough and I think there's still enough doubt over a few of them and their consistency levels.
If he's seen as a coach and the idea is that player recruitment is done by committee and that coaches can be changed and continuity maintained, then we would have to decide what the problem was if things don't work out - is it the player recruitment, or the coaching?! Do we change the coach, or get new people in to do scouting and recruitment? Is it Critchley's fault he didn't have any new defenders til recently, or is it down to the recruitment people? Did he want Lubala and Yates, or did he have them handed to him? I understand he sits on the committee - and will have some say - but I believe the idea is to separate the recruitment from the coaching, and that ultimately recruitment is not his responsibility - and he can't be expected to scout players, vet them and coach them. He's one cog in the machine, a vital one, but it's about collective responsibility, surely? And not about scapegoating individuals?
 

20togo

Well-known member
I think most sensible and reasonable Seasiders (and those with even a little knowledge of the beautiful game) recognise we’re not a finished article and that just signing players doesn’t change that.

The squad is now seemingly 99% assembled - Critchley now needs patience and time to get them playing his style of football and also get them playing as a team.

It then comes down to tweaking things and working on individual traits and attributes. None of this is an overnight fix.

I’d like to think there’s enough quality and know how to start winning games and grinding out positive results - but I doubt we’ll hit our stride and play to our true potential until the new year.

The longer the season goes on the better we’ll get. Should put us in a great position should we be in or around the play offs come seasons end.
Good post. Hopefully your last para turns out right.
 

20togo

Well-known member
The way Yates is being used clearly isn't working, but his role in this formation is not as a target man; we don't use one.
The role of the central forward in this set up is to link the play from midfield to attack and bring the wide forwards in to the game.
As it stands, none of this is happening whatsoever, he doesn't seem to be doing anything at all.
He isn't dropping back to pick up the ball, he isn't playing in Lubala & CJ, he's anonymous.

It's a mess in all honesty, Ward is contributing very little and Anderson isn't getting forward enough to help create space for Yates.

I suppose whereas the defensive struggles are highlighted when there is an almighty balls-up and we concede, the attacking problems are more subtle yet just as significant.

There needs to be huge improvements in virtually every single position on the pitch, which will only come with time; judging by the last few games these problems aren't gonna disappear over night, no matter who we've got playing at centre half now.
Disagree with your opening line. I think how you describe the role is that of a target man so we do use Yates in that role. Agree with the rest of your assessment. 👍
 

BlackpoolsFinest

Well-known member
Disagree with your opening line. I think how you describe the role is that of a target man so we do use Yates in that role. Agree with the rest of your assessment. 👍
I get your point, my description of a target man would be the kind that a player like Madine would have traditionally filled in a 442 or 451.

We're essentially talking about the same thing in a roundabout way.
 

Rektseasider

Well-known member
Interesting hearing people’s thoughts on this now we’re 7 games in, cup and league.

Something I’ve been thinking is, perhaps Critch just needs to keep it simple. ie Robson you just sit here with Williams or Virtue or who ever you don’t have to go chasing all over the place to get the ball, just protect the centre backs.

Like wise with Anderson, just operate between the centre circle and the 18 yard box feed balls into the front three, shoot when you can.

It looks slightly Like they’re receiving a thousand instructions per training sessions and can’t stick to all of them during a game.

Something I’ve often heard about top mangers or players dropping down to manage in the lower leagues is, they come with fantastic methods and ideas but it all falls down and fails because the players arnt up to that level of understanding and execution.

Not that I’m saying it’s failing, it’s too early for that. But sometimes it’s the simple things in life.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
Disagree with your opening line. I think how you describe the role is that of a target man so we do use Yates in that role. Agree with the rest of your assessment. 👍
Not all teams have a target man and I don't think Critch sees Yates as a target man. In any traditional sense anyway.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I get your point, my description of a target man would be the kind that a player like Madine would have traditionally filled in a 442 or 451.

We're essentially talking about the same thing in a roundabout way.
We are. Yates is trying to play in the the same role and the same way that Madine would be that in a front three or any other formation.. Unfortunately, Yates isn't either big or physical enough to do that. So in my view we are never gonna see or get the best out of him.
And of course that's not to say that Madine is good enough anyway.
 

LA1 Seasider

Well-known member
We are. Yates is trying to play in the the same role and the same way that Madine would be that in a front three or any other formation.. Unfortunately, Yates isn't either big or physical enough to do that. So in my view we are never gonna see or get the best out of him.
And of course that's not to say that Madine is good enough anyway.
I can’t say I agree with Yates playing as a target man at all. He’s very much playing as a pressing forward - closing the ball down, retrieving the ball and fashioning chances - all on top of being a fox in the box. He’s doing an excellent job in doing this role - unfortunately his team mates are letting him down when it comes to giving him chances to put away.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Not all teams have a target man and I don't think Critch sees Yates as a target man. In any traditional sense anyway.
I agree that not all teams have a target man but I do think Critch plays him in a target man role.
Interesting hearing people’s thoughts on this now we’re 7 games in, cup and league.

Something I’ve been thinking is, perhaps Critch just needs to keep it simple. ie Robson you just sit here with Williams or Virtue or who ever you don’t have to go chasing all over the place to get the ball, just protect the centre backs.

Like wise with Anderson, just operate between the centre circle and the 18 yard box feed balls into the front three, shoot when you can.

It looks slightly Like they’re receiving a thousand instructions per training sessions and can’t stick to all of them during a game.

Something I’ve often heard about top mangers or players dropping down to manage in the lower leagues is, they come with fantastic methods and ideas but it all falls down and fails because the players arnt up to that level of understanding and execution.

Not that I’m saying it’s failing, it’s too early for that. But sometimes it’s the simple things in life.
Another great post and great points made especially obout managers and players dropping down to manage. Not a criticism of Critchley but I daresay being at Liverpool he was looking after players who were probably more technically gifted than even those he's brought in here.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
.
I agree that not all teams have a target man but I do think Critch plays him in a target man role.

Another great post and great points made especially obout managers and players dropping down to manage. Not a criticism of Critchley but I daresay being at Liverpool he was looking after players who were probably more technically gifted than even those he's brought in here.
Like Matty Virtue, ex Liverpool U23 captain. 😉
 

LA1 Seasider

Well-known member
I think the current team is crying out for Virtue instead of Ward, the midfield is offering very little as it stands, at least with Virtue in there we'd have someone driving forward and getting in to the box.

We're carrying Ward, it took me a while to realise he was even playing last night.
I completely agree. I don’t think he’s done anything to warrant inclusion in the first XI so far and would like to see Sarkic played in the same position or even Antwi given some game time if Robson can step a little further up
 
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