Where is the Queen now?

M

Matesrates

Well-known member
Is that it, just dead, has her spirit gone somewhere, is she in heaven?

I had a peculiar experience when my mother died, she lived in Tenerife and it took me 3 days to get there at that time. Both my wife and I not only felt her presence, when we sat on the balcony later that night, we smelt her perfume and cigarette smoke. We looked over the balcony and there was no one below us. It felt pretty weird.
 
One of my nans was an Italian Catholic, and claimed to have spoken with spirits since being a little child - so much so that the church disowned her before her teens.
For the last few months of her life she hadn’t spoken due to dementia, but on her deathbed a priest agreed to give her the last rites, and, as he started, she joined in.
Then she said “no, I don’t want to come”, then after a pause, “only if you hold my hand”
Then “oh my God, that’s beautiful!”.
She passed away straight after those last words, make of that as you will, but it still brings a tear to my eye just typing that.
 
Johnno said:
One of my nans was an Italian Catholic, and claimed to have spoken with spirits since being a little child - so much so that the church disowned her before her teens.
For the last few months of her life she hadn’t spoken due to dementia, but on her deathbed a priest agreed to give her the last rites, and, as he started, she joined in.
Then she said “no, I don’t want to come”, then after a pause, “only if you hold my hand”
Then “oh my God, that’s beautiful!”.
She passed away straight after those last words, make of that as you will, but it still brings a tear to my eye just typing that.
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Wow, what an interesting and touching anecdote.

Who knows where Liz is... I used to be a devout atheist but am certainly drawn more towards agnosticism these last few years. Dead is just a word - are we dead before we're born? How do you even know you're alive if you've never been dead?
 
Johnno said:
One of my nans was an Italian Catholic, and claimed to have spoken with spirits since being a little child - so much so that the church disowned her before her teens.
For the last few months of her life she hadn’t spoken due to dementia, but on her deathbed a priest agreed to give her the last rites, and, as he started, she joined in.
Then she said “no, I don’t want to come”, then after a pause, “only if you hold my hand”
Then “oh my God, that’s beautiful!”.
She passed away straight after those last words, make of that as you will, but it still brings a tear to my eye just typing that.
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Wow
 
Life is a brief candle between two eternities. Eons went before our birth and eons will follow after our deaths.

If you think of it in those terms “non existence” is actually our natural state. “We” spend far more time not existing than we do alive.

That’s why death doesn’t really bother me. We’re just returning to wherever we came from before we were born. Our natural state if you like.

Mind you the process of actually dying can be unpleasant and scares the bejesus out of me. But at least you know there’ll be an end to it.
 
rockontommy said:
Wow, what an interesting and touching anecdote.

Who knows where Liz is... I used to be a devout atheist but am certainly drawn more towards agnosticism these last few years. Dead is just a word - are we dead before we're born? How do you even know you're alive if you've never been dead?
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Thank you.
 
I look at it philosophically TBH as I didn’t know anything before I was born & when I go to sleep for the last time I won’t know anything again. If we are reincarnated then as far as I’m aware we still won’t know much or anything from our past lives, it would be a huge bonus if this were the case, I’m not holding my breath on what is incredibly unlikely & defies any scientific logic. Plus I’m not in a rush to find out. As someone else said the dying bit can be very unpleasant.
 
The Queen certainly isn't at Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle or Balmoral.

Why people have to lay flowers by those places bemuses me.
Instead of lining the pockets of the flower sellers maybe a donation to a charity/charities of the Royals choice?
If they did that then you wouldn't get people rushing to these places so the news cameras can catch how much they're grieving.

It's a very sad time, let's not turn it into a circus
 
Wizzerboy said:
The Queen certainly isn't at Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle or Balmoral.

Why people have to lay flowers by those places bemuses me.
Instead of lining the pockets of the flower sellers maybe a donation to a charity/charities of the Royals choice?
If they did that then you wouldn't get people rushing to these places so the news cameras can catch how much they're grieving.

It's a very sad time, let's not turn it into a circus
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Pomp and circumstance for the Royal Family? Never.
 
In response to the o/p:

Someone close to her will have come to collect her and lead her spiritual consciousness into the Heavenly light. Most likely Phillip or her mother, or both. They will act as her spirit guide / guardian angel, to make the transition easier for her.

It usually takes a few days for spirit energy to gather the entirety of a lifespan. The body remains ‘alive’ during this period, at least on a cellular/ energy level. Think of it as recording a backup storage of her life, in fast rewind. Those memories and energy encapsulates the spirit / soul of the person. That’s why if you see someone who has recently died, they can look at peace - free from pain and suffering, whereas after a few days the spirit has left them completely and the body is now effectively an empty soulless shell.

If the person doesn’t choose to go into the light (due to perceived unfinished business, guilt, fear of judgement, etc) they are effectively ‘stuck’ in limbo on the Earth plane, until such a time they are ready to move on, or someone can bring the light down again for them. Think ghosts & orbs.

Regarding reincarnation - this especially applies where the life is cut short (before their normal time), accidents, disasters, etc. if there’s a feeling in spirit of unfinished business. It can be an opportunity for spirits to improve their spiritual level, attain a higher level of spirituality in the Heavenly realm. (There’s different levels of Heaven.) A spirit will enter a suitable body not long after conception, but certainly before birth.
It’s highly likely there will be no previous memory of past life/lives (and memory reduces with age), e.g. a small child would remember more than an adult. Some memories might return in vivid dreams, or a sense of deja vu, seemingly irrational fears. There could be a family link, but good friends and family can and do reconnect spiritually. It might not be as expected though, so for example if you were a male chauvinist in the previous life, expect to come back as a female, etc. to learn and improve. There are many portals between Earth and Heaven, where spirits move between the realms. Some people can see these as black spots in the sky.

The spirit world is vast. Beyond our comprehension.
 
tangerine_neil said:
In response to the o/p:

Someone close to her will have come to collect her and lead her spiritual consciousness into the Heavenly light. Most likely Phillip or her mother, or both. They will act as her spirit guide / guardian angel, to make the transition easier for her.

It usually takes a few days for spirit energy to gather the entirety of a lifespan. The body remains ‘alive’ during this period, at least on a cellular/ energy level. Think of it as recording a backup storage of her life, in fast rewind. Those memories and energy encapsulates the spirit / soul of the person. That’s why if you see someone who has recently died, they can look at peace - free from pain and suffering, whereas after a few days the spirit has left them completely and the body is now effectively an empty soulless shell.

If the person doesn’t choose to go into the light (due to perceived unfinished business, guilt, fear of judgement, etc) they are effectively ‘stuck’ in limbo on the Earth plane, until such a time they are ready to move on, or someone can bring the light down again for them. Think ghosts & orbs.

Regarding reincarnation - this especially applies where the life is cut short (before their normal time), accidents, disasters, etc. if there’s a feeling in spirit of unfinished business. It can be an opportunity for spirits to improve their spiritual level, attain a higher level of spirituality in the Heavenly realm. (There’s different levels of Heaven.) A spirit will enter a suitable body not long after conception, but certainly before birth.
It’s highly likely there will be no previous memory of past life/lives (and memory reduces with age), e.g. a small child would remember more than an adult. Some memories might return in vivid dreams, or a sense of deja vu, seemingly irrational fears. There could be a family link, but good friends and family can and do reconnect spiritually. It might not be as expected though, so for example if you were a male chauvinist in the previous life, expect to come back as a female, etc. to learn and improve. There are many portals between Earth and Heaven, where spirits move between the realms. Some people can see these as black spots in the sky.

The spirit world is vast. Beyond our comprehension.
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Blimey
 
Matesrates said:
Blimey
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Another thing to mention:

Once the spirit has moved into the Heavenly realm, they can return for short periods whenever they like, but especially when they are needed.
So she could return to look after her children, e.g. Charles, where the need is greatest, providing comfort and healing energy.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Another thing to mention:

Once the spirit has moved into the Heavenly realm, they can return for short periods whenever they like, but especially when they are needed.
So she could return to look after her children, e.g. Charles, where the need is greatest, providing comfort and healing energy.
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Them words are comforting to anyone who has lost somebody.
 
The Bible has a lot to say about the question of what happens when we die. In fact, it provides the definitive answer to the question. The short answer is that for everyone, whether they are Christians or not, death isn’t the end.

But what happens after death for the Christian and the non-Christian is very different.

When a Christian dies, he or she immediately enters the presence of the Lord. Some refer to this as an intermediate state because our final state is a bodily resurrection that happens following the second coming of Christ. Calling it an intermediate state might call to mind images of the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory, but they’re nothing alike. There’s no waiting or delay. Jesus doesn’t wait for us to be sufficiently purified before we get to stand before Him. When we die, we are with Him. And we keep being with Him after our bodily resurrection and the world is made new.

However, when someone dies apart from Jesus, they enter eternity carrying the weight of their offenses against an infinite and holy God and are judged accordingly by Him. Death apart from Christ means no hope of forgiveness, no more opportunity for repentance. There is only judgment, an eternity of suffering for the consequences of sin.

This is, in part, why Christians should feel a sense of urgency about sharing the gospel. We know judgment is real. We know what happens when we die. And we know that there is real hope for eternal life through faith in Jesus. And we want everyone to experience this now and forever.

The Gospel Project
 
Pool CW said:
Them words are comforting to anyone who has lost somebody.
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Not for me they aren't, having lost both my parents in the last 2 years, I find these verses far more comforting

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."

John Ch 11 vs 25-26
 
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Wizzerboy said:
The Queen certainly isn't at Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle or Balmoral.

Why people have to lay flowers by those places bemuses me.
Instead of lining the pockets of the flower sellers maybe a donation to a charity/charities of the Royals choice?
If they did that then you wouldn't get people rushing to these places so the news cameras can catch how much they're grieving.

It's a very sad time, let's not turn it into a circus
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We bring flowers as a tradition and to show our love, respect and appreciation to the dead.

I really don’t like this ‘modern attitude’ that we should monetise our grief instead and donate to charity. You can donate to charity any day of the week.
 
rockontommy said:
Wow, what an interesting and touching anecdote.

Who knows where Liz is... I used to be a devout atheist but am certainly drawn more towards agnosticism these last few years. Dead is just a word - are we dead before we're born? How do you even know you're alive if you've never been dead?
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I say I am an atheist but like you Tommy I’m sliding a bit.

I realised that we never believe what we can’t understand hence my atheism.

But

I can almost work with the fact now that just because we don’t have the knowledge to understand an afterlife and no science to back it up, it doesn’t make it a concrete no no.

There are many things we don’t understand and even things we don‘t know that we don’t know….. so maybe this is one of them .
 
Many years ago I had a female cousin who was about 10/12 years older than I, but we were good friends.
She became very ill (only about 42 y.o.) and was taken to The Vic.
I went to see her one day and she was asleep and very Yellowish.
The next morning at around 06.00 I awoke with a blinding flash in my head/brain?
Later that day we were told that my cousin had died at around 06.00 .
Weird.
 
Tangman74 said:
Exactly what I asked myself - try not to think about it too much as it is very hard to figure out lol there cannot just be nothing .
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There certainly can be, we can very easily just be a happy accident in the universe, consciousness just electrical signals in our evolved brain as science shows.

There really doesn't have to anything else at all, infact it's highly likely there isn't anything, but it comforts people when they die, aka see the intention of lying ending, its nice to think there's something more because who wants to just die or tell loved ones they won't be seen again... it's scary.

Thats why life is precious and must be enjoyed.
 
Wizzerboy said:
The Queen certainly isn't at Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle or Balmoral.

Why people have to lay flowers by those places bemuses me.
Instead of lining the pockets of the flower sellers maybe a donation to a charity/charities of the Royals choice?
If they did that then you wouldn't get people rushing to these places so the news cameras can catch how much they're grieving.

It's a very sad time, let's not turn it into a circus
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Same types that panic buy toilet roll. Like sheep.
 
JJpool said:
There certainly can be, we can very easily just be a happy accident in the universe, consciousness just electrical signals in our evolved brain as science shows.

There really doesn't have to anything else at all, infact it's highly likely there isn't anything, but it comforts people when they die, aka see the intention of lying ending, its nice to think there's something more because who wants to just die or tell loved ones they won't be seen again... it's scary.

Thats why life is precious and must be enjoyed.
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Ah but if you determine there is "nothing" - "nothing" is actually something. Whatever form nothing comes in it is actually something and how did it get there? Who created nothing? How did nothing come about?

I just live my life a decent way. I'm hopeful there is something after death but the human brain is too small to compute what that is. For me personally it is slightly arrogant to determine that there is or isn't something although I accept people's views and that devout religious belief gives people comfort and a sense of purpose.
 
Lala said:
I say I am an atheist but like you Tommy I’m sliding a bit.

I realised that we never believe what we can’t understand hence my atheism.

But

I can almost work with the fact now that just because we don’t have the knowledge to understand an afterlife and no science to back it up, it doesn’t make it a concrete no no.

There are many things we don’t understand and even things we don‘t know that we don’t know….. so maybe this is one of them .
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I see too many similarities between atheism and religion nowadays. It's just that the troubled soul turns to the doctor or expert rather than the preacher or mystic nowadays. I see atheists as just as capable of being irrational as the Catholic or Muslim. Invoking their higher power (science) when irked despite being engaged in all sorts of silly rituals themselves.

Modern medicine has been great at treating so many ailments, but go and see a consultant psychiatrist for example and they're groping around trying to find solutions using abstractions like the ego which may or may not exist. The workings of the inner mind as much a mystery as the secrets of the universe. A book or interesting character in a book, or music track, or police arrest, or funny shaped cloud or tree, all just as likely (probably more) to spark profound life-long change than the 'rational' scientific advice in these instances.

Still can't get on board with the idea of a god because that remains a step too far for me, but as you say, we lack true knowledge or understanding in so many ways.
 
rockontommy said:
I see too many similarities between atheism and religion nowadays. It's just that the troubled soul turns to the doctor or expert rather than the preacher or mystic nowadays. I see atheists as just as capable of being irrational as the Catholic or Muslim. Invoking their higher power (science) when irked despite being engaged in all sorts of silly rituals themselves.

Modern medicine has been great at treating so many ailments, but go and see a consultant psychiatrist for example and they're groping around trying to find solutions using abstractions like the ego which may or may not exist. The workings of the inner mind as much a mystery as the secrets of the universe. A book or interesting character in a book, or music track, or police arrest, or funny shaped cloud or tree, all just as likely (probably more) to spark profound life-long change than the 'rational' scientific advice in these instances.

Still can't get on board with the idea of a god because that remains a step too far for me, but as you say, we lack true knowledge or understanding in so many ways.
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Great post imo 👍
 
Macseasider said:
Ah but if you determine there is "nothing" - "nothing" is actually something. Whatever form nothing comes in it is actually something and how did it get there? Who created nothing? How did nothing come about?

I just live my life a decent way. I'm hopeful there is something after death but the human brain is too small to compute what that is. For me personally it is slightly arrogant to determine that there is or isn't something although I accept people's views and that devout religious belief gives people comfort and a sense of purpose.
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Well if as science suggests, when the body dies and you die, it's that simple.

You asking about nothing is more of a universe question.

Well never know who created the universe or were it came from nor does the fact it may have always been there fit with our understanding.

If you put a creator or something even more advanced at the start of it all, then that too needs explaining.

I haven't said definitively, just what I think based on science. You could say the same based on these wild theories based on absolutely no evidence. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence in science. Personal experiences can vary and the brain can play tricks even under stress etc.

I would love there to be something as it means we don't just end, sadly I don't believe there is.

The human brian is perfectly capable to understand it if we knew what the answer was, but I don't think we ever will.

Its human nature to insert something in there, especially regarding death as wouldn't it be lovely to not really die and go somewhere happy, therefore its more a coping mechanism to deal with lifes harsh realities imo.
 
rockontommy said:
I see too many similarities between atheism and religion nowadays. It's just that the troubled soul turns to the doctor or expert rather than the preacher or mystic nowadays. I see atheists as just as capable of being irrational as the Catholic or Muslim. Invoking their higher power (science) when irked despite being engaged in all sorts of silly rituals themselves.

Modern medicine has been great at treating so many ailments, but go and see a consultant psychiatrist for example and they're groping around trying to find solutions using abstractions like the ego which may or may not exist. The workings of the inner mind as much a mystery as the secrets of the universe. A book or interesting character in a book, or music track, or police arrest, or funny shaped cloud or tree, all just as likely (probably more) to spark profound life-long change than the 'rational' scientific advice in these instances.

Still can't get on board with the idea of a god because that remains a step too far for me, but as you say, we lack true knowledge or understanding in so many ways.
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Theres a huge difference, science is completely proven, it's why we can fly in jets at 35,000 feet or build skyscrapers, built rockets and go into space or any modern thing we can do. Religion gets completely disproven all the time and just doubles down. A bit like the 4000 year old earth claim that some creationists believe.

Most people are nearly atheists, they believe in 1 god when there are so many. They can't all be right with completely different teachings, all with special books yet completely different.

Science will always adjust when more is learned through discovery. Its the only hope we have of finding out whats really going on, things like the James Webb telescope help, but aren't going to answer the biggest questions.

The fact is we're so small in such a vast universe well never be able to know.
 
JJpool said:
Most people are nearly atheists, they believe in 1 god when there are so many. They can't all be right with completely different teachings, all with special books yet completely different.
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Most religious people worship the same, Abrahamic, God. And an even bigger majority of religions are monotheistic. Calling it 'nearly atheist' is like calling a pregnant woman 'nearly not pregnant' because she's not having twins.
 
Macseasider said:
Ah but if you determine there is "nothing" - "nothing" is actually something. Whatever form nothing comes in it is actually something and how did it get there? Who created nothing? How did nothing come about?

I just live my life a decent way. I'm hopeful there is something after death but the human brain is too small to compute what that is. For me personally it is slightly arrogant to determine that there is or isn't something although I accept people's views and that devout religious belief gives people comfort and a sense of purpose.
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That isn’t too far removed from what I think. If asked I’ll usually say I’m agnostic - I neither believe nor disbelieve in a “God”. As you say how can anyone state definitively that there is or isn’t something? None of us knows - hence the need for faith for the religious and whatever the equivalent is for atheists.

As for the hereafter - well if it’s a nice fluffy cloud where we spend eternity and everyone loves each other that’d be very nice. But if it’s oblivion well we won’t know anything about it. So why worry about something we won’t experience? We don’t think about the time before we were born and get worried. So why worry about returning to that state?
 
foggy said:
Most religious people worship the same, Abrahamic, God. And an even bigger majority of religions are monotheistic. Calling it 'nearly atheist' is like calling a pregnant woman 'nearly not pregnant' because she's not having twins.
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The “nearly atheists” are probably more accurately classified as agnostics. They struggle to understand why a benign all powerful and loving God would allow such horrible things to happen. If anyone of us saw a small child blundering into a busy road they’d bust a gut to save it. God? Less bothered it seems.

So the people you have in mind tend to think there isn’t any such power/being. Or if there is he/she/it doesn’t seem to be paying much attention.

But equally they understand there’s lots of things that can’t currently be explained by science so are open minded about there being “something other”. But have no idea what that might be or how it involves itself in human affairs.
 
JJpool said:
Theres a huge difference, science is completely proven, it's why we can fly in jets at 35,000 feet or build skyscrapers, built rockets and go into space or any modern thing we can do. Religion gets completely disproven all the time and just doubles down. A bit like the 4000 year old earth claim that some creationists believe.

Most people are nearly atheists, they believe in 1 god when there are so many. They can't all be right with completely different teachings, all with special books yet completely different.

Science will always adjust when more is learned through discovery. Its the only hope we have of finding out whats really going on, things like the James Webb telescope help, but aren't going to answer the biggest questions.

The fact is we're so small in such a vast universe well never be able to know.
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It's not either/or though is it? You can be a Jew and still avail yourself of science. You can be an atheist and be engaged in all sorts of completely unproven unscientific shit (see the last two years). Plus, our science is underpinned by certain Christian values which shape what is and isn't acceptable. Some eastern belief systems are more akin to methods for better living than being a religion or philosophy. Completely unscientific but if it brings profound happiness, what's the beef?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
The “nearly atheists” are probably more accurately classified as agnostics. They struggle to understand why a benign all powerful and loving God would allow such horrible things to happen. If anyone of us saw a small child blundering into a busy road they’d bust a gut to save it. God? Less bothered it seems.

So the people you have in mind tend to think there isn’t any such power/being. Or if there is he/she/it doesn’t seem to be paying much attention.

But equally they understand there’s lots of things that can’t currently be explained by science so are open minded about there being “something other”. But have no idea what that might be or how it involves itself in human affairs.
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No, I was referring to this idea people like Ricky Gervais think is really clever that there are thousands of Gods that people may believe in so by worshipping one you're nearly atheist because you disbelieve in all the others. It's really dumb. Like saying a football fan nearly isn't a football fan cause they support Blackpool and not every single team in existence
 
Mexboroseasider said:
The “nearly atheists” are probably more accurately classified as agnostics. They struggle to understand why a benign all powerful and loving God would allow such horrible things to happen. If anyone of us saw a small child blundering into a busy road they’d bust a gut to save it. God? Less bothered it seems.

So the people you have in mind tend to think there isn’t any such power/being. Or if there is he/she/it doesn’t seem to be paying much attention.

But equally they understand there’s lots of things that can’t currently be explained by science so are open minded about there being “something other”. But have no idea what that might be or how it involves itself in human affairs.
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👍👍
 
Mexboroseasider said:
The “nearly atheists” are probably more accurately classified as agnostics. They struggle to understand why a benign all powerful and loving God would allow such horrible things to happen. If anyone of us saw a small child blundering into a busy road they’d bust a gut to save it. God? Less bothered it seems.

So the people you have in mind tend to think there isn’t any such power/being. Or if there is he/she/it doesn’t seem to be paying much attention.

But equally they understand there’s lots of things that can’t currently be explained by science so are open minded about there being “something other”. But have no idea what that might be or how it involves itself in human affairs.
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When explorers came across primitive (by their standards) civilisations, with their 'modern' technology they were perceived as superior beings, or 'Gods' by the primitives.

Quite possible then that 'God' was a more advanced being, as proposed by good 'ol Von Daniken, and has long since pissed off.

BTW, if there's a decent pint of Pale on this 'fluffy cloud' Mex, then I'm ok with dying, but not just yet.
 
foggy said:
Most religious people worship the same, Abrahamic, God. And an even bigger majority of religions are monotheistic. Calling it 'nearly atheist' is like calling a pregnant woman 'nearly not pregnant' because she's not having twins.
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There are many different gods and people fight over which is real.

It was a funny line Ricky Gervais said about them almost being atheists, because they nearly believe in as many as him.

But its also true, they all believe in a higher power but claim it, she or he wants completely different things.

It's a nonsense.

The fact that people believe lines of an old book at you shows how mad it all is.

Let's face it, its all just a comfort, people need something to believe in.
 
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rockontommy said:

It's not either/or though is it? You can be a Jew and still avail yourself of science. You can be an atheist and be engaged in all sorts of completely unproven unscientific shit (see the last two years). Plus, our science is underpinned by certain Christian values which shape what is and isn't acceptable. Some eastern belief systems are more akin to methods for better living than being a religion or philosophy. Completely unscientific but if it brings profound happiness, what's the beef?
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It is in many ways, for eg creationists.

Christian values have helped, also the fact that if you're bad you might go to hell is in a way like telling a child if you're naughty you'll get no presents from santa.

It's a way if giving people hope, keeping them in check.

People can have the belief in anything.

I can believe that we're all created by a magical dancing camel, it has equally as much proof as anything.

I'm not against people believing, if it makes people happy etc, just pointing out it's difficult to disprove and prove, doesn't mean its actually real.
 
JJpool said:
There are many different gods and people fight over which is real.

It was a funny line Ricky Gervais said about them almost being atheists, because they nearly believe in as many as him.

But its also true, they all belove in a higher power but claim it, she or he wants completely different things.

It's a nonsense.

The fact that people believe lines of an old book at you shows how mad it all is.

Let's face it, its all just a comfort, people need something to believe in.
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Thinking your religion is 100% right is silly, but believing in some higher power certainly isn't. Nobody has any idea what exists beyond our vision and comprehension. And religion is just a way of organising that and developing a common language for shared belief. Nobody should believe their religious texts literally, but humans like to attach significance to things. Rituals and ceremonies, physical manifestations of the divine. All very natural and rational. Fighting over it, is what is stupid. And believing it so literally you think you will burn in hell for not abiding by the trivial rules humans made up.
 
The likelihood is, there’s only one God / supreme being for this solar system. It’s just people around the world putting their own interpretations on it. Guidance in the form of books and preaching, most likely littered with errors, misinformation, personal opinions and elements of fearful control.

Science has a long way to go yet and is still learning. We tend to focus on the physical world and what we can see. Very little is understood on a spiritual level.

For example, we are blinkered in thinking there are only human spirits, whereas in reality many different types of light (positive energy) and dark (negative energy) spirits exist, that were never human, unseen by the majority. If you put as much time and learning into advanced meditation as my Dad has done these last 20 years, you might be able to see and sense these such spirits and the cosmic healing energy beam which radiates from your body straight to the heavens. His master can see and use the cosmic healing band which surrounds the Earth, can see the aura’s of people, can see bad karma as a black cloud, can see the vastness of the spirit world. Some people may also have another ‘passenger’ spirit in them, which may seek to control willpower, karma and actions. It’s hard to comprehend, but no less true.

Given modern society, ultimately when most people pass away, the best they will experience is the lower heavenly plane, in the presence of the love of God and amazing, beautiful things, but not next to God. Maybe in years to come, if we haven’t destroyed the planet by then, we will become far more aware, and ascend spiritually.
 
Conceptualisation is the thing most people struggle with, when it comes to understanding the divine nature of the Universe.

Pictures of men in beards and fables maybe go some way to helping simple minds to give some context to it.

The closest I’ve ever come to understanding has been through eating mushrooms. For whatever reason, they seem to enable a deeper understanding which takes you outside the normal constrictive naming based thought processes of the human mind.
 
rockontommy said:
Wow, what an interesting and touching anecdote.

Who knows where Liz is... I used to be a devout atheist but am certainly drawn more towards agnosticism these last few years. Dead is just a word - are we dead before we're born? How do you even know you're alive if you've never been dead?
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Agnosticism is the only logical position.

Atheists disavow god because it's illogical as there is no evidence and therefore based in faith, not reason. There's also no evidence that there is no god (or higher force, or other world/dimension or whatever) and this atheism is in itself a position of faith based on an opinion and thus, logically, if you were to disavow faith, you'd ultimately have to say "I don't know" and therefore be agnostic.

I've been a lot happier since I decided I hadn't really got a clue and not to worry about it and just see what happens whenever it does.

The lights might go out, I might wake up in the next level or back at the beginning or as a frog or in a big white room or whatever. Who can possibly know either way?
 
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