Why Are we Finding it so Hard to Get in a Centre Half.

H

HodderSeasider

Well-known member
I don't know whether anyone has the answer to this. At one time good, solid centre halves at our level were fairly easy to come by. It was forwards and midfielders that proved so much more difficult to source.
Everything has been turned upside down this season where we have an embarrassment of riches in these more forward positions, but are one injury away from being down to the bare bones in the centre of our defence.
I am sure the manager has everything under control. Am I being unduly worried?
 
It might just be the way it has happened. They had a strategy and names identified, and they’ve filled the positions as quick as they can.

Or perhaps, because the forward / attacking type players are the ones usually most in demand, they’ve sorted them first. There’s not usually a fight over a centre half.
 
I see a shortage across the board. Even England end up playing full backs in the central defensive positions. It's what the manager wants from his defenders. Is it a ball player or an old school header and hoofer?
 
I think the problem is a lack of quality ball playing defenders at this level. Trying to find someone who is tall, fast, solid defensively, comfortable on the ball and can pick a pass is never going to be easy in League One. Edwards and Heneghan are solid, but not what we are after
 
The salary cap has basically left everyone goosed as you could have picked up the odd Championship player who is willing to drop down for good money not a chance if they are under contract leaving for 2k a week on offer in Lge1.
So all clubs are shopping in the bargain player store.
 
OhhhBarryBarry! said:
I think the problem is a lack of quality ball playing defenders at this level. Trying to find someone who is tall, fast, solid defensively, comfortable on the ball and can pick a pass is never going to be easy in League One. Edwards and Heneghan are solid, but not what we are after
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Would agree with that, Nottingham and epkiteta and husband are all relatively cofortable on the ball, Thorniley less so. when we saw the way the liverpool defenders were bringing the ball out in the second half it demonstrates the gulf.

The tendency we have had is to play it short to a defender, a couple of cross field passes, come under some close pressure and then it goes back to the goalkeeper who hoofs it forward. The problem i think is understanding the aim of the passing from the back, and getting movement across the park to stretch the first line of the opponents defence and create space. It wouldnt surprise me if NC thinks that Notts and Ekpi can do the job at league 1. Its a pity we can't get the young guy back from Norwich from last year whos name ive forgotten but I thought looked the business.
 
Is Critchley actively looking for a centre-half? With Husband capable of playing in the middle we have 4 reasonable starters. Thorniley has had an indifferent pre-season but it's too early to write anyone off.
 
Lincoln have signed a young centre half from a Dutch second division side. Apparently looked good in the win at Crewe on Saturday, and scored a volley.

I think people are probably exaggerating our problems though. We kept Stoke out, and we conceded once in the first half at Anfield, pre changes, and it wasn't lucky. There's work to do on set pieces, that is crystal clear. We need another central defender for cover if nothing else, but no mad rush. Husband and Turton can both cover at a push, Williams possibly too. But I don't think it'll come to that. Maybe NC is waiting on a possible loan from Liverpool or something. It would be great to get a Jackson /Evatt leader type, yes, but I kind of feel we should be grateful for all that's been done, and trust Critchley and Sadler. They seem focused on youth and potential.
 
I've seen a few managers saying that this transfer window has been a difficult one. I would imagine that is because players and more likely agents are still thinking that they can earn the same as they did before the player cap came in. I think that once the season starts and these players dont have clubs, then their wage demands will change dramatically. I'm hoping that this will work in our favour. If we have to have the first couple of games with the defender's we have in order to get the exact type of CH we want, then I'm OK with that personally.
 
We've already signed one, so we can't be finding it that hard.
If Critch is happy with Marv's growth and his potential to improve, and feels Nottingham is performing, then also having Thorniley, Husband & Williams (and even Turton) means it simply may not be a priority when we are bound by a squad limit.
 
BlackpoolsFinest said:
We've already signed one, so we can't be finding it that hard.
If Critch is happy with Marv's growth and his potential to improve, and feels Nottingham is performing, then also having Thorniley, Husband & Williams (and even Turton) means it simply may not be a priority when we are bound by a squad limit.
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Sorry, Husband and Turton are not centre halves. They may be able to play as part of a back three, along side two taller centre halves, but it appears the manager wants to play with a back four. The manager also appears not to favour Thorniley as he has played Notts and Marv as his first choice starters, both who are right sided!
 
Thorniley was signed pre Critch and hardly used, and Critch doesn't seem keen either. He seems to lack pace, and does lack height. Ekpit and Nottingham are both tall and quick. NC bought one and decided to keep the other, so speed and height are presumably attributes he wants.
 
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It may be too early to make a definitive judgement but I have seen nothing to suggest that Nottingham and Ekpiteta couldn't do a good job there. Playing a high line means we have to have quick central defenders so it would make sense. IMHO.
 
Big tall and athletic EK and Nott can do a job for sure, we are waiting a certain club to sort out there own squad before fingers crossed releasing the center back Critch is now targeting
 
Hazi said:
Big tall and athletic EK and Nott can do a job for sure, we are waiting a certain club to sort out there own squad before fingers crossed releasing the center back Critch is now targeting
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You know that yeah?
 
The 3 most important positions in a team are....
1.....goal keeper....
2 and 3...... 2 decent centre halves......
Critchers May think Notts and Marv are the real deal so he’s in no rush.....
But ideally I’d love to see a 6ft 4 left footed 27/28 year old ish captain material dude in there....
We live in hope
 
Bristol City have signed Alfie Mawson and Steven Sessegnon in the past 24 hours, would be interesting to see if that has knocked Taylor Moore out of the squad, I wonder if he's gettable now?
 
Spider29 said:
The 3 most important positions in a team are....
1.....goal keeper....
2 and 3...... 2 decent centre halves......
Critchers May think Notts and Marv are the real deal so he’s in no rush.....
But ideally I’d love to see a 6ft 4 left footed 27/28 year old ish captain material dude in there....
We live in hope
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Yes because scoring goals is so overrated.
 
I think people are ruling Thorniley out prematurely.

I’m not knocking either Marv or Notts as both have done well preseason, particularly Notts.

But in the one competitive game had against Stoke, both looked all over the place at times. Particularly with runners and through balls down the middle. I thought when Thorniley came on he really stabilised the back line and we looked far more assured.

Let’s not forget he’s scored more open play goals than all the strikers put together. 😏.

I think he’s a good player.

But in football You can be unlucky and move to a club who change manager and you never get a look in.
 
Rektseasider said:
I think people are ruling Thorniley out prematurely.

I’m not knocking either Marv or Notts as both have done well preseason, particularly Notts.

But in the one competitive game had against Stoke, both looked all over the place at times. Particularly with runners and through balls down the middle. I thought when Thorniley came on he really stabilised the back line and we looked far more assured.

Let’s not forget he’s scored more open play goals than all the strikers put together. 😏.

I think he’s a good player.

But in football You can be unlucky and move to a club who change manager and you never get a look in.
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The manager who signed him didn't play him!

Maybe he's a steadying influence. We'll see.
 
voyeur said:
The manager who signed him didn't play him!

Maybe he's a steadying influence. We'll see.
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He only managed him for a handful of games did Grayson and played him in all but one I think.
 
Rektseasider said:
He only managed him for a handful of games did Grayson and played him in all but one I think.
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Is that right? I thought Thorniley struggled to get in the side from the off, one or two dodgy performances.

Apparently Liverpool only have three central defenders, and two of them are injury prone. VVD, Gomez, Matip.
 
voyeur said:
Is that right? I thought Thorniley struggled to get in the side from the off, one or two dodgy performances.

Apparently Liverpool only have three central defenders, and two of them are injury prone. VVD, Gomez, Matip.
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He signed early Jan and Grayson got fired in early February.

Strange time to come into the club, as it has been for anyone in the last 12 months.

Time will tell, perhaps NC doesn’t fancy him. I just thought he’d done well when I’ve seen him play.
 
Rektseasider said:
He signed early Jan and Grayson got fired in early February.

Strange time to come into the club, as it has been for anyone in the last 12 months.

Time will tell, perhaps NC doesn’t fancy him. I just thought he’d done well when I’ve seen him play.
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Yes I realised he came January and Grayson left in February, but I thought he didn't play much in those few weeks.

I just don't think we have seen enough of him in match action. A central defender can take a while to bed in. He looks calmer than Ekpi and Notto, but he is also smaller and seems to lack pace. And I think that's why Critchy is favouring these two. I wonder if he's cut out for the way we want to play - and if his height mitigates against him playing in his favoured position. I wonder if he needs to find a new position maybe, left back perhaps, but can he cope with the pace of a winger running at him? We don't really know, I think. But NC has seen him close up for long enough now, I think.
 
voyeur said:
Yes I realised he came January and Grayson left in February, but I thought he didn't play much in those few weeks.

I just don't think we have seen enough of him in match action. A central defender can take a while to bed in. He looks calmer than Ekpi and Notto, but he is also smaller and seems to lack pace. And I think that's why Critchy is favouring these two. I wonder if he's cut out for the way we want to play - and if his height mitigates against him playing in his favoured position. I wonder if he needs to find a new position maybe, left back perhaps, but can he cope with the pace of a winger running at him? We don't really know, I think. But NC has seen him close up for long enough now, I think.
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You’re right actually he only played two league games. Away at Oxford and Wycombe, I saw him in both as I live down here, but I imagine 99% of fans have never actually seen him play until the Stoke game. Fair enough really.

Like I said I thought he did well in those games, but the team were a down trodden rabble at that point so who really knows how he is.

Yes I agree, about his deficiencies at centre back, a Wednesday fan who spoke to me about him when he signed told me he was a left back, and he was shocked they’d let him go.
 
Rektseasider said:
I think people are ruling Thorniley out prematurely.

I’m not knocking either Marv or Notts as both have done well preseason, particularly Notts.

But in the one competitive game had against Stoke, both looked all over the place at times. Particularly with runners and through balls down the middle. I thought when Thorniley came on he really stabilised the back line and we looked far more assured.

Let’s not forget he’s scored more open play goals than all the strikers put together. 😏.

I think he’s a good player.

But in football You can be unlucky and move to a club who change manager and you never get a look in.
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Not just people ruling him out, but it appears the manager too, or why else select two right footers in central defence when Thorniley, a left footer, is available!
 
HodderSeasider said:
Not just people ruling him out, but it appears the manager too, or why else select two right footers in central defence when Thorniley, a left footer, is available!
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Only time will tell, Nottingham was a pariah at one point, now he’s held up as League One’s Van Dijk by many one here.

Again not a slight on Notts who’s done well just a point on the fickleness of football.
 
Rektseasider said:
You’re right actually he only played two league games. Away at Oxford and Wycombe, I saw him in both as I live down here, but I imagine 99% of fans have never actually seen him play until the Stoke game. Fair enough really.

Like I said I thought he did well in those games, but the team were a down trodden rabble at that point so who really knows how he is.

Yes I agree, about his deficiencies at centre back, a Wednesday fan who spoke to me about him when he signed told me he was a left back, and he was shocked they’d let him go.
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I thought he had a shocker at Wycombe. Better at Oxford, but he worried me.
 
Wizaard said:
I thought he had a shocker at Wycombe. Better at Oxford, but he worried me.
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All a game of opinions, I thought he was ok in a side that was scrapping the bottom of the barrel at that point. It’s hard to judge on such a small sample size.

The managerial changes haven’t been kind to him.

The Stoke game is the strongest point of reference we have under NC for me. I can’t say I was over enamoured with Notts and Marv together in that game. But again a small sample size and against a team from a higher division.

Only time will tell, think there’s a decent player in there.
 
Rektseasider said:
All a game of opinions, I thought he was ok in a side that was scrapping the bottom of the barrel at that point. It’s hard to judge on such a small sample size.

The managerial changes haven’t been kind to him.

The Stoke game is the strongest point of reference we have under NC for me. I can’t say I was over enamoured with Notts and Marv together in that game. But again a small sample size and against a team from a higher division.

Only time will tell, think there’s a decent player in there.
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Although they kept a clean sheet against a Championship side. Opinions indeed and I can't wait to find out what Critchley thinks
 
Wizaard said:
Although they kept a clean sheet against a Championship side. Opinions indeed and I can't wait to find out what Critchley thinks
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Well Thorniley was part of that clean sheet, against arguably a more potent attack after Stoke made changes.

But it does look like NC will go with Notts and Marv at the back.
 
Still not sure we have that commanding centre half who will just take the game by the scruff of the neck and deal with whatever comes at them. Seems to be a lot of uncertainty in that area and League One strikers will be far more ruthless than some of our pre-season opposition.
 
I agree we need defensive reinforcements, but what people aren’t taking into consideration is that any new centre half needs to fit a specific profile.

There are calls for an ‘experienced’ centre half, but unless they have pace, they’re just going to be exposed time and time again playing in our high line. This will then lead to our fan base slating them for being ‘shit’ when the reality is they should never have been signed in the first place. I know Charlie Mulgrew was linked but he would be terrible in our system as he lacks pace.

I’d much rather Critch and the recruitment team take their time in finding the right player, than rush into singing a 34year old player who will be exposed time and time again.
 
ThorntonPool said:
I agree we need defensive reinforcements, but what people aren’t taking into consideration is that any new centre half needs to fit a specific profile.

There are calls for an ‘experienced’ centre half, but unless they have pace, they’re just going to be exposed time and time again playing in our high line. This will then lead to our fan base slating them for being ‘shit’ when the reality is they should never have been signed in the first place. I know Charlie Mulgrew was linked but he would be terrible in our system as he lacks pace.

I’d much rather Critch and the recruitment team take their time in finding the right player, than rush into singing a 34year old player who will be exposed time and time again.
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Well said. I also think Critch is happy to work with players and to allow them time to become more confident, gain experience and learn the role he is asking them to play. He must believe they will keep improving. And there is good reason to believe that Ekpiteta and Nottingham will improve and become more confident. We surely need a left sided central defender though. I'm sure finding the right left footed player isn't straight forward.
 
As Hazi seems to have a bit of inside info, I'm happy to wait to see if Critchley can get in this centre half he has identified.
But yep, central defence is still probably the biggest concern imo.
 
It may well be that Critch feels the players he currently has at his disposal are just as likely to fit in to the system he wants to play as anyone we can realistically sign. That added to the fact that the current players are further along in their understanding of this system than any new recruit would be means that anyone who was brought in would have to be of pretty high quality (for League One); most teams don't let them go so easily.

Like I've said before, young, quick, 6'2+ centre halves who can also play a bit aren't readily available to League One teams.
 
ThorntonPool said:
I agree we need defensive reinforcements, but what people aren’t taking into consideration is that any new centre half needs to fit a specific profile.

There are calls for an ‘experienced’ centre half, but unless they have pace, they’re just going to be exposed time and time again playing in our high line. This will then lead to our fan base slating them for being ‘shit’ when the reality is they should never have been signed in the first place. I know Charlie Mulgrew was linked but he would be terrible in our system as he lacks pace.

I’d much rather Critch and the recruitment team take their time in finding the right player, than rush into singing a 34year old player who will be exposed time and time again.
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I agree with what you’ve said there.

but on the flip side it’s somewhat of a dangerous game to identify players that have that athletic ability and just hope they come good on the leadership/ tactical awareness side of the game.

We look like we’re really lacking That at centre back at the moment.
 
Spider29 said:
The 3 most important positions in a team are....
1.....goal keeper....
2 and 3...... 2 decent centre halves......
Critchers May think Notts and Marv are the real deal so he’s in no rush.....
But ideally I’d love to see a 6ft 4 left footed 27/28 year old ish captain material dude in there....
We live in hope
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Really ? Tell that to Ronaldo and messi.
 
Rektseasider said:
I agree with what you’ve said there.

but on the flip side it’s somewhat of a dangerous game to identify players that have that athletic ability and just hope they come good on the leadership/ tactical awareness side of the game.

We look like we’re really lacking That at centre back at the moment.
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I completely get what you’re saying.
But can a player be a good leader at centre back when they’re regularly being caught out every time the opposition decide to launch a ball over the top? It’s a tricky one.

A possible answer would be for the defence to drop 10 yards, meaning there is much less space for the opposition to exploit in behind. The downside to that is our pressing further up the pitch will be more disjointed and a lot easier to play through. I also don’t reckon Critch would do this.
 
ThorntonPool said:
I completely get what you’re saying.
But can a player be a good leader at centre back when they’re regularly being caught out every time the opposition decide to launch a ball over the top? It’s a tricky one.

A possible answer would be for the defence to drop 10 yards, meaning there is much less space for the opposition to exploit in behind. The downside to that is our pressing further up the pitch will be more disjointed and a lot easier to play through. I also don’t reckon Critch would do this.
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Aye it’s a tough one.
I must admit I thought the same as your last paragraph watching last night.

We need to drop the back line off and play from there, as I think Robson looks like a decent link between back and front.

Im sure NC knows better than me though 😁
 
I’ve only seen him on tv, but I reckon that Marvin is a RB. He is not as comfortable playing the ball out of central defence as he should be. NC. needs a left sided CB who is. That’s a toughie to find. Maybe a Jock, or European ??
 
Middxile said:
I’ve only seen him on tv, but I reckon that Marvin is a RB. He is not as comfortable playing the ball out of central defence as he should be. NC. needs a left sided CB who is. That’s a toughie to find. Maybe a Jock, or European ??
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Marv a right back. I don't see that, myself. Looks like a CB that's made a rapid rise from non league to me, learning to play at a higher level. We just need to be patient, I think.
 
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voyeur said:
NC is saying loud and clear that we aren't there yet, we are working towards being able to do what he wants.

Marv a right back. I don't see that, myself. Looks like a CB that's made a rapid rise from non league to me, learning to play at a higher level. We just need to be patient, I think.
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Orient fans said it took him a little while to get upto to speed in league 2, but once he was there he was very, very good. So I agree, patience is needed right now.
 
Also, Taylor Moore was 22 when he was with us. Ballard is 21 in less than 2 weeks and he's a full international who's highly regarded at Arsenal, a much bigger club than Brizzle Titty. Training with Aubemayang etc.

He might be magnificent. But I've no idea.
 
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