Why pass it around at the back?

S

Superbretty

Well-known member
I know Critchley has all his coaching badges but really what is the purpose of making four or five passes across the back before we go forward?
I'm sure there is some alleged reason why this is a good thing (moving the opposition around? Tiring them out?) But it's not like we then find a player in midfield with an incisive pass, we just hoof it long.
We aren't Man City with Phil Foden making intelligent runs into space for the defenders to pick out. Just can't see the point of this tactic. Is it an unhealthy obsession with possession football?
 
Superbretty said:
I know Critchley has all his coaching badges but really what is the purpose of making four or five passes across the back before we go forward?
I'm sure there is some alleged reason why this is a good thing (moving the opposition around? Tiring them out?) But it's not like we then find a player in midfield with an incisive pass, we just hoof it long.
We aren't Man City with Phil Foden making intelligent runs into space for the defenders to pick out. Just can't see the point of this tactic. Is it an unhealthy obsession with possession football?
Click to expand...
Correct we won the possession stats last night 3-1 but lost the match 1-3! My worry is that NC will look at the possession stats with some sense of achievement
 
I think the answer to the question in the title is pure and simple, "because Pep's teams can do it and therefore it is dead fashionable."
THE END.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The passing backwards and sideways is simply not an issue for me. A much bigger issue is feeling the need to play a poor forward ball instead of having the patience to keep passing it sideways and backwards until an opportunity arises.
Click to expand...
That could have something to do with the booing every time we pass the ball backwards? We end up lumping it to Rhodes who is marked by 2 centre halves or Dembele who is 5 foot.

My only issue with backwards & sideways passing is that it’s done to slowly to drag opposition players out of position.
 
Pauls_Boutique said:
That could have something to do with the booing every time we pass the ball backwards? We end up lumping it to Rhodes who is marked by 2 centre halves or Dembele who is 5 foot.

My only issue with backwards & sideways passing is that it’s done to slowly to drag opposition players out of position.
Click to expand...
Yep.. We need to move the ball more quickly agreed, but the crowd needs to be patient l, as do the players…The number of times I heard “Just pass it forward” when there’s no forward option …

It’s just gormless fans who get obsessed with something and then put pressure on the team to make bad decisions.
 
Passing it around the back is fine, we did a lot at Oxford to great success. It’s about stretching the play, they key is to have options to transition the ball forward into the gaps made by stretching the pitch wider. I’d be looking at your midfield, who’s not filling in the holes and creating options to get the play moving forward?
 
Possession football is the mantra at most clubs these days. The aim is simple - against a team that is sitting back, move the ball across the back to draw forward the oppo strikers and midfield, switch it side to side to create gaps then find the pass through the gap. The first two bits we do great, but we fall down on the most important part. The pace the team pass the ball is far too pedestrian in my opinion as well and our midfielders never receive the ball on the turn, they're always facing backwards which means they're always under pressure.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yep.. We need to move the ball more quickly agreed, but the crowd needs to be patient l, as do the players…The number of times I heard “Just pass it forward” when there’s no forward option …

It’s just gormless fans who get obsessed with something and then put pressure on the team to make bad decisions.
Click to expand...
i think the players are making enough gormless decisions all by themselves. If they showed more urgency in their movement, there would not be as much pressure on them. Derby sat back and let us play a training session on our own.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yep.. We need to move the ball more quickly agreed, but the crowd needs to be patient l, as do the players…The number of times I heard “Just pass it forward” when there’s no forward option …

It’s just gormless fans who get obsessed with something and then put pressure on the team to make bad decisions.
Click to expand...
Last night I heard ‘stop pissing around with it, get it up the field’. Same voice 10 minutes later ‘stop booting it, keep the ball’ 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
 
And when we got it forward last night, especially in the second half, our main creative outlet was hauled off. I still cannot understand why he was taken off.

Critch will have had in his mind Dembele can have 75 minutes tonight. He was finding space and making things happen, surely you do not bring him off when it's clear he is finding these pockets of space.

I have no problem with the passing about at the back as others have said, it moves the opposition about, we are not just doing it for the sake of it.
 
I like keeping the ball and I like passing it around and have no problem with going sideways or back. The biggest problem I have though is that we do it far too slowly for it to be of any benefit to us. The opposition just moves across in their shape without us dragging or moving any of them out of position. As a result there's still no space and then we hoof it and lose the ball.
If we are going to play this style which I hope we do continue with then we need to invest in the players capable of doing it quicker. Also we need 2 or 3 who can do something different ie Dembele or a Bowler, a Rogers or Poveda etc you get the jist then our passing creates space for them to get at them. As it stands Hamilton is our only outlet and if he controls the ball he's hit and miss anyway.
 
People pay good money to go to a game.

OK we want our team to win, but we also want to be entertained and to watch exciting football.

What we don't want is to watch Grimshaw rolling it to Casey, who then does a square pass to Husband, who passes it back to Grimshaw, who rolls it to Norburn, who passes it back (yawn) to Grimshaw, who gives it to Casey (yawn) who (yawn,yawn,yawn).

All very clever, but we've got nowhere and you can now hear the snoring in the crowd.

Oh for the days of lumping it up the field to Murphs, or Bambs who flicks it on to Trevor or Brett. It wasn't particularly pretty, but it was exciting. Unfortunately there isn't a chapter in Shitleys training manual on this.

We have no creativity in midfield, so most of the time it's pointless giving the ball to them They'll just pass it back, and around and around we go. Others have commented about how slow we build up. Compare that with Derby who attacked with great pace last night.

It's going to be a very boring season, and I'm afraid that's down to Shitley.
 
Pun_1 said:
And when we got it forward last night, especially in the second half, our main creative outlet was hauled off. I still cannot understand why he was taken off.

Critch will have had in his mind Dembele can have 75 minutes tonight. He was finding space and making things happen, surely you do not bring him off when it's clear he is finding these pockets of space.

I have no problem with the passing about at the back as others have said, it moves the opposition about, we are not just doing it for the sake of it.
Click to expand...
Actually I thought that apart from 2 runs he was completely ineffective last night. He was completely dominated by their centre backs and we should have started with Kouassi against them. What was also interesting was that their left back had outpaced CJ on at least two occasions - switching sides might have helped with that issue.
 
DiggersBFC said:
Actually I thought that apart from 2 runs he was completely ineffective last night. He was completely dominated by their centre backs and we should have started with Kouassi against them. What was also interesting was that their left back had outpaced CJ on at least two occasions - switching sides might have helped with that issue.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree, I think people see a couple of flashes of half decent play and start wetting their pants.

Fir me Dembele was a waste of a player for the most part, a complete luxury. I don’t think we’re good enough as a whole to accommodate him at the minute.
 
Albert Ross said:
The alternative is to pass the bloody ball forwards occasionally. Why is it a binary choice between pissing around at the back or ‘hoofing it’ ?
Click to expand...
Certainly not a choice of one or the other but a combination of both. I believe the idea is to pass a lot & try to pull their players all over the pitch , which would hopefully stretch them , then later in the game start the intricate passing , which Dembele did to set up Dougal.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The passing backwards and sideways is simply not an issue for me. A much bigger issue is feeling the need to play a poor forward ball instead of having the patience to keep passing it sideways and backwards until an opportunity arises.
Click to expand...
The problem is that they'd be passing it around at the back all match as there are very few players making the adequate runs needed to put the opposition under pressure.
A few round me having a go at Dembele for misplaced (or so they thought) passes. The fact no one had the brains to move into the space to recieve the pass seemed to be forgotten.
 
On a few occasions last night I saw the strikers making runs, they'd lost their markers and our defenders instead of making the throughball watched them, but still stopped and played it back instead. Was almost like they were looking but not seeing.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yep.. We need to move the ball more quickly agreed, but the crowd needs to be patient l, as do the players…The number of times I heard “Just pass it forward” when there’s no forward option …

It’s just gormless fans who get obsessed with something and then put pressure on the team to make bad decisions.
Click to expand...
It is difficult for the players to keep patient, especially at home.

Away teams know that hence they set up like Derby did last night and fair play to them.

Players shouldn't be too down about last night, sometimes that's the way it goes.

Saturday is a different day and I think we'll win.
 
Pun_1 said:
And when we got it forward last night, especially in the second half, our main creative outlet was hauled off. I still cannot understand why he was taken off.

Critch will have had in his mind Dembele can have 75 minutes tonight. He was finding space and making things happen, surely you do not bring him off when it's clear he is finding these pockets of space.

I have no problem with the passing about at the back as others have said, it moves the opposition about, we are not just doing it for the sake of it.
Click to expand...
He was shocking in the first half and I was hoping he would have been taken off at HT.
Different player second half, when we played it on the floor.
Gobsmacked when he was subbed as he was looking our best attacking option.
No point playing hoofball when Dembele is alongside Rhodes.
That tactic is for when Kouassi is on, and can hopefully hold it up until the cavalry arrives.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I tend to agree, I think people see a couple of flashes of half decent play and start wetting their pants.

Fir me Dembele was a waste of a player for the most part, a complete luxury. I don’t think we’re good enough as a whole to accommodate him at the minute.
Click to expand...
2nd half he was very good and we are desperate for creativity.
 
Wizzerboy said:
The problem is that they'd be passing it around at the back all match as there are very few players making the adequate runs needed to put the opposition under pressure.
A few round me having a go at Dembele for misplaced (or so they thought) passes. The fact no one had the brains to move into the space to recieve the pass seemed to be forgotten.
Click to expand...
I was really excited about Dembele when I first saw him. Unfortunately he just looked like a boy playing man’s football to me last night.
 
Spot on the
DiggersBFC said:
On a few occasions last night I saw the strikers making runs, they'd lost their markers and our defenders instead of making the throughball watched them, but still stopped and played it back instead. Was almost like they were looking but not seeing.
Click to expand...
Spot on there.
 
Seasider1953 said:
Or the alternative is to hoof the ball upfront all the time, missing out the midfield. Every long ball is a 50/50 ball , so we don’t gain any possession?
Click to expand...
There is a further alternative.
Pass it around in midfield and create genuine chances.
passing it around at the back under the illusion of 'opening them up' just allows them to keep an organised defence nicely organised.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I think ‘very good’ is stretching it tbh. He didn’t just fall over all the time at least.
Click to expand...
His touch was excellent, went past players with ease at times. First proper game for BFC against a good team, need to get him in the team.
 
neyo said:
Passing it around the back is fine, we did a lot at Oxford to great success. It’s about stretching the play, they key is to have options to transition the ball forward into the gaps made by stretching the pitch wider. I’d be looking at your midfield, who’s not filling in the holes and creating options to get the play moving forward?
Click to expand...
That’s just it we lack quality in midfield the opposition just soak it up, after we’ve tried to create something it goes back to the keeper or defender who then hoofs it anyway it might fall to one of our wingers which neither of them can take a man on so it goes back again and the whole process is repeated it’s terrible to watch I was done on 60 minutes couldn’t watch no more. I’ve just watched the highlights on ttv we looked like cardboard cutouts in the latter parts of the game it’s a wonder derby didn’t score more.
 
no9 said:
His touch was excellent, went past players with ease at times. First proper game for BFC against a good team, need to get him in the team.
Click to expand...
I've seen it all before TBH... As I said elsewhere, he looked like a boy playing mans football for the most part. Not that dissimilar to young Patino or Poveda last season. The lad isn't strong or physical enough for this league IMHO.... You might get away with him on the wing or if we can afford him a bit of a free role behind a front two, but I'm not convinced we're good enough overall to get away with it.

We also lacked presence in the box last night... It's completely ridiculous to me to be playing with wing backs, getting crosses into the box and then having a midget in the middle.
 
Kaddy was virtually chalk and cheese, in the two halves. First he looked way off the pace, beaten to a pass to feet several times, bar one moment where he turned on a sixpence in midfield. Second half he just kept growing, getting into spaces and receiving. The pass to CJ was brilliant, shame it wasn't read. What I don't think we can afford is both Kaddy and Sonny Carey - it has to be one or the other. Left us light in midfield.

Overall, our issue is the speed we play at. Last night we were at walking pace far too often, with Derby's set up killing all our options. They had us worked out really well. So, as said, we end up going long and if it wasn't centrally to Rhodes it was a very low percentage wide diagonal to CJ or Owen Dale. Pedestrian and predictable. A couple of times Jimmy Husband tried to surge forward at speed, and Olly Casey too I think. But that should really be the role of the attacking central mid we desperately need.

Overall I don't think we were as bad as some are making out. There were some very good moments in the second half, and a lot of them came through Dembele. Give him a free role behind (say) Rhodes and Kouassi. Get the ball wider quicker too, Dale was free regularly and we didn't find him enough.

And a final word - we regressed to very poor set piece delivery last night, especially first half. Haven't seen much of that this season so far, hoping it was just a bad night.
 
DiggersBFC said:
Actually I thought that apart from 2 runs he was completely ineffective last night. He was completely dominated by their centre backs and we should have started with Kouassi against them. What was also interesting was that their left back had outpaced CJ on at least two occasions - switching sides might have helped with that issue.
Click to expand...
spot on about CJ. Their full back was pretty quick and so more often than not negated CJ's pace. And that is the only asset he has. More often than not he was easily dispossessed or gave the ball away cheaply. As you say, Critch should have switched him to the other wing and onto his proper side. Of course there were some poor player performances iast night but the biggest culprit was Critchley, who got his team selection badly wrong, his substitues wrong and his stupidity in not doing anything about it until we went 2-0 down.
 
All teams spend a great deal of time working on their defensive shape out of possession
Playing at a slow pace allows them to maintain that shape and mark our players
Moving the ball quicker, not just passing the ball but moving into space to receive it back is how you break their defense down
Playing the ball into space for players to run onto breaks their defense down
Most goals in open play are scored by quick football
We are getting there slowly it takes time but high tempo and intensity wins games
 
Pauls_Boutique said:
Last night I heard ‘stop pissing around with it, get it up the field’. Same voice 10 minutes later ‘stop booting it, keep the ball’ 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised when we turned a final third situation to eventually a pass back to Grimshaw. Why? I'll tell you because all the players were like statues nobody was making themselves available making runs or shouting for the ball.
 
There is a big problem with the current constant rotation is that there is no understanding being built up with the players.
For example, on Saturday we had CJ on the left with Husband behind him and Dougall left side on midfield
which is sensible as he is the two-footed. It changed last night with Carey and Dale, so Husband is faced with playing with two
new players last night. It was the same problem with the right side for Connolly. It seems to be the wings that the team is
leaking goals from and I reckon the lack of understanding is the big cause.

The other big problem is that both CJ and Dembele seem to lack the confidence to cut inside the penalty box and shoot. CJ in particular had a
a couple of great opportunities to cut inside in the second half. There only seem to be Rhodes and Dougall from the starting lineup
who are willing to shoot on sight.
 
His team selectio, tactics and substitutions are baffling, if he’d looked, he would have seen that Derby scored 14 goals before last night, so it was likely they would score possibly 2 against us. Leaving Kouassi on the bench was peculiar given we were at home and given his performance last time out at home. He’s obsessed with setting up not to lose.
 
Seasider1953 said:
Certainly not a choice of one or the other but a combination of both. I believe the idea is to pass a lot & try to pull their players all over the pitch , which would hopefully stretch them , then later in the game start the intricate passing , which Dembele did to set up Dougal.
Click to expand...
The only problem with that is, later in the game, as last night, we’re 2 goals down. We also weren’t pulling them all over the pitch, they were mostly just watching us piss about.
 
I just couldn't get my head round how Neil Critchley managed to turn a team that won the previous two matches into a defensive team set up not to lose with plenty of sideways and backwards passing throughout the first half. It was only Derby missing two sitters towards halftime which kept us level. It was a question of time before we went behind in the second half, then 2-0. We threw caution to the wind and a great goal from Dougall, then hitting the bar with a header almost allowed us to paper over the cracks.
Derby broke through to make it 3-1 and deservedly take the points. NC must not send us out and have a similar performance at Charlton, so PLEASE let the lads have a real go at them. I'd rather us lose 4-3 than have a dour and drab 1 or 2-0 defeat.
WE COULD EVEN WIN.
🧡UTMP🧡
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The passing backwards and sideways is simply not an issue for me. A much bigger issue is feeling the need to play a poor forward ball instead of having the patience to keep passing it sideways and backwards until an opportunity arises.
Click to expand...
Last night there were a few occasions when Husband sprinted forward with the ball and it looked a very positive approach.
Don’t know why we cannot do that more often with other players doing likewise.
 
CAGU said:
Last night there were a few occasions when Husband sprinted forward with the ball and it looked a very positive approach.
Don’t know why we cannot do that more often with other players doing likewise.
Click to expand...
We've just got to find the right balance... If a side with the quality that Derby have at their disposal is going to come and sit and plant 5 at the back, then you've got a job on your hands. Committing players forward is all well and good, but in some ways you're playing into their hands.. A bit of spillage and the door is open and they've got you on the break and on the back foot.

It's difficult, because being the home side, there's obviously an onus on you to take the game to the opposition and rightly so, but I also think there are games when you need to be a bit more patient.

Was a bit of a chess game last night really... The first goal in that situation is massive.. It was fairly evenly balanced up to that point.... Having watched the game again and listened to Critchley's post match, I think his assessment of the game is very fair.
 
Ultimately we lack the quality in midfield to find a bit of space, receive a square pass, turn and feed someone. We also lack the quality on the wings for someone to pick up that pass, and intelligently take the ball forward or play a killer ball to a forward player.

Which is often par for the course at this level, players who can reliably do these things don't generally play in league one. There was a lot of hope for Weir to be that guy but it hasn't happened yet and almost all of our play that has led to goals was down to Kouassi winning a header > CJ runs onto it > finds Rhodes in the box/wins a penalty.
 
Superbretty said:
I know Critchley has all his coaching badges but really what is the purpose of making four or five passes across the back before we go forward?
I'm sure there is some alleged reason why this is a good thing (moving the opposition around? Tiring them out?) But it's not like we then find a player in midfield with an incisive pass, we just hoof it long.
We aren't Man City with Phil Foden making intelligent runs into space for the defenders to pick out. Just can't see the point of this tactic. Is it an unhealthy obsession with possession football?
Click to expand...
it’s horrible to watch. Leicester were doing it against Blackburn on Sunday and at times they were just walking around at the back even standing waiting for the opposition to come and get the ball. However they won 4-1 with the tactic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top