Young Men they will do what they want!!

deary

Well-known member
Interesting that in a survey loads of young men have ignored the guidelines & met up with friends etc.


I get that young men feel invincible & the virus wont effect them.

However I wonder if this 'rebel' behaviour has led to many increased infections & deaths?


* Over 50 per cent of men aged 19-24 have met with a group of friends during lockdown
* Majority of those aged 13-24 are not complying with basic hygiene recommendations such as washing hands more often


Now i dont want to bash young men but if most are not complying with guidelines on social distancing or hygiene surely they must be a significant factor in virus transmission rates?

Also could this be impacting the BAME community especially as there will likely be a younger demographic overall but perhaps due to social circumstances increased chance of passing the virus on to older family members? You could perhaps add this to the fact that more work in high risk professions?

 
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I think they expected a certain percentage of non-compliance.

That said, do we not think that it is a good thing that young men (most of whom are unlikely to have any massively negative effects) are mingling and building up immunity that will ultimately protect the vulnerable.
 
I think they expected a certain percentage of non-compliance.

That said, do we not think that it is a good thing that young men (most of whom are unlikely to have any massively negative effects) are mingling and building up immunity that will ultimately protect the vulnerable.

I do think it is a bad thing if they are killing others who would not have otherwise died at the same time which they will be doing.
It really all depends on how long it takes to find a vaccine.
 
I think they expected a certain percentage of non-compliance.

That said, do we not think that it is a good thing that young men (most of whom are unlikely to have any massively negative effects) are mingling and building up immunity that will ultimately protect the vulnerable.
Yes but over 50% is a worry.
As for building up immunity well that is all well & good i suppose in 'theory' but not if they are passing it onto more vulnerable members when they go home!
As said in another post i was shocked at how low the recent estimates were in the uk for those who had contracted the virus so big questions over impact of herd immunity.
 
Have to praise my lad who's 20 in a couple of weeks. Not been out at all to meet his mates both at home and at Uni. I know they're all being quizmaster once a week and setting quizzes for each other which passes the time. Added to the fact he's currently doing his economic exams on line.
So good luck to all the kids sitting exams either now or shortly.
 
I do think it is a bad thing if they are killing others who would not have otherwise died at the same time which they will be doing.
It really all depends on how long it takes to find a vaccine.
Killing others...Don't be ridiculous... !!
Yes but over 50% is a worry.
As for building up immunity well that is all well & good i suppose in 'theory' but not if they are passing it onto more vulnerable members when they go home!
As said in another post i was shocked at how low the recent estimates were in the uk for those who had contracted the virus so big questions over impact of herd immunity.
I suspect other age groups may be more compliant, but to be honest, I don't blame them.... Young fit healthy lads who want to get on with their lives..More power to them I say.
 
Have to praise my lad who's 20 in a couple of weeks. Not been out at all to meet his mates both at home and at Uni. I know they're all being quizmaster once a week and setting quizzes for each other which passes the time. Added to the fact he's currently doing his economic exams on line.
So good luck to all the kids sitting exams either now or shortly.
Well done to your lad 20s 👍
Its tough on everyone but perhaps more so on young lads.
Seems like he may be in the minority though.
 
Killing others...Don't be ridiculous... !!

I suspect other age groups may be more compliant, but to be honest, I don't blame them.... Young fit healthy lads who want to get on with their lives..More power to them I say.
Yes that is one view , However others may justifiably see them as overtly self centred people who dont give a shit about others?
 
Killing others...Don't be ridiculous... !!

Can you explain why that is ridiculous?
The more people that have the virus before a vaccine and / or effective treatment is found the more people will die, I don't think that that is a controversial view. Do you deny that this is true?
 
Well done to your lad 20s 👍
Its tough on everyone but perhaps more so on young lads.
Seems like he may be in the minority though.
Yep, it's probably more tough on the young 'uns and even though I've seen a few groups when out myself I tend to think the majority of them are doing the right thing.
 
Killing others...Don't be ridiculous... !!

I suspect other age groups may be more compliant, but to be honest, I don't blame them.... Young fit healthy lads who want to get on with their lives..More power to them I say.
The only way anyone will die of this is if it's transmitted to them. If the greatest risk of transmission is through those asymptomatic passing on to the vulnerable it's simply ridiculous to suggest that no deaths have been caused by the activity described.
 
Can you explain why that is ridiculous?
The more people that have the virus before a vaccine and / or effective treatment is found the more people will die, I don't think that that is a controversial view. Do you deny that this is true?
Yes I do...

First of all, it is the virus and to a large extent, the imposition of the lockdown that is 'killing people' not young ment who are choosing to get on with their lives.

Secondly, this 'vaccine' is complete pie in the sky...It's a hopeful eventuality and not a reality as is this so called effective treatment. It may never come.

From what I can see locking up the population will actually end up killing significantly more people than the process of allowing perfecvtly fit and healthly young people to contract the disease and quickly build up a suitable level of immunity in our population.

If people die, it is because we failed to effectively shield the people at the most risk, not because people who are at very minimal risk are choosing to risk expose themselves to infection.
 
I think they expected a certain percentage of non-compliance.

That said, do we not think that it is a good thing that young men (most of whom are unlikely to have any massively negative effects) are mingling and building up immunity that will ultimately protect the vulnerable.
No.
I think the bastards are selfish! Have they no respect for the doctors,nurses,carers and so on who are having to nurse the ill? I can stay at home with I am still doing as I know things will get worse again now that the government has given in to business greed.
 
Can you explain why that is ridiculous?
The more people that have the virus before a vaccine and / or effective treatment is found the more people will die, I don't think that that is a controversial view. Do you deny that this is true?
Some are dying with it FFS there are some fools about.
 
No.
I think the bastards are selfish! Have they no respect for the doctors,nurses,carers and so on who are having to nurse the ill? I can stay at home with I am still doing as I know things will get worse again now that the government has given in to business greed.
You don't 'know' anything...

We need to get this virus through as many of our population as quickly as possible, whilst protecting the vulnerable.... Holding it back is delaying the inevitable and killing many many more people.
 
Isn't it all becoming the blame culture now and looking for scapegoats and the youth are getting it in the neck today.
Wouldn't have thought it would have been any different when I was younger in the 80's or the generation before so let's critisise the one age group who tend to hang around in groups.
 
Isn't it all becoming the blame culture now and looking for scapegoats and the youth are getting it in the neck today.
Wouldn't have thought it would have been any different when I was younger in the 80's or the generation before so let's critisise the one age group who tend to hang around in groups.
Given that the virus spreads through hanging around on groups, why are you surprised?
 
You don't 'know' anything...

We need to get this virus through as many of our population as quickly as possible, whilst protecting the vulnerable.... Holding it back is delaying the inevitable and killing many many more people.

With the greatest respect bifster that is merely 'your chosen view' at present.
Most medical experts, the WHO & pretty much every nation on the planet have not endorsed this view.
Isn't it all becoming the blame culture now and looking for scapegoats and the youth are getting it in the neck today.
Wouldn't have thought it would have been any different when I was younger in the 80's or the generation before so let's critisise the one age group who tend to hang around in groups.

Of course we live in a society of 'blame culture' loads of people get it in the neck rightly or wrongly for Covid & their response to it? People can apportion some blame to anyone who they feel may be responsible be it the Chinese Government, The WHO, The Tories, Donald Trump, Young men for non compliance or even 5G masts!!!
 
With the greatest respect bifster that is merely 'your chosen view' at present.
Most medical experts, the WHO & pretty much every nation on the planet have not endorsed this view.

Even Neil Ferguson the person responsible for getting us (and many others) into this damned mess has admitted that the herd immunity approach is the only viable option (unless you consider 12-18 months or even indefinite time spent in lockdown waiting for a vaccine to be viable).

The WHO did not advocate lockdown... They recommended quarantining of the sick and testing (They still do BTW)
 
I think they expected a certain percentage of non-compliance.

That said, do we not think that it is a good thing that young men (most of whom are unlikely to have any massively negative effects) are mingling and building up immunity that will ultimately protect the vulnerable.
As long as they are not mingling with older people like their parents and co-workers. But, because that’s quite unlikely, they will be CV vectors. Basically, they just do not give a shit, and the rest of us will take the necessary precautions if they come near. Like telling them to feck off.
 
Even Neil Ferguson the person responsible for getting us (and many others) into this damned mess has admitted that the herd immunity approach is the only viable option (unless you consider 12-18 months or even indefinite time spent in lockdown waiting for a vaccine to be viable).

The WHO did not advocate lockdown... They recommended quarantining of the sick and testing (They still do BTW)
Yeah but you will always find some who say that the way forward is the path not chosen. It doesnt mean they are right just because it fits the view you choose?
So i was still correct in saying most medical experts, the WHO & pretty much every nation on the planet dont advocate it!😁
Some people do & i am certainly not saying it should be disregarded & not discussed. I just think until it is proven to be the best action you are risking many more lives.
 
Yeah but you will always find some who say that the way forward is the path not chosen. It doesnt mean they are right just because it fits the view you choose?
So i was still correct in saying most medical experts, the WHO & pretty much every nation on the planet dont advocate it!😁
Some people do & i am certainly not saying it should be disregarded & not discussed. I just think until it is proven to be the best action you are risking many more lives.
I've not chosen a view and then found someone to support it... I have listened to the different views and input expressed by a whole range of experts and then formed an opinion based upon the credibility of the individuals, the level of concensus between the experts on differing options & my own common sense and logic.

What worries me is the reasoning behind the dramatically different approach being adopted to this particular virus i.e. lockdown, which seems to have some experts quite puzzled as well as the massive focus on a vaccine based solution. It has been put to us that being a "novel" virus somehow makes this one dramatically different, but when you listen to experts, for any virus to go through the epidemic process within a community it always has to be novel.

The process is always that a respiritory virus goes through the same epidemic process, we gain immunity and then the virus essentially fizzles out to become background noise.

So once that process is complete, which normally lasts no more than a few weeks, we are done with the virus, we have immunity and we move on and vaccines don't come into the process. Obviously with the Flu, we just kind of play an annual guessing game and hope that we guessed the right way, though of course, as most of us know, the Flu virus is not particualry effective at all.
 
The process is always that a respiritory virus goes through the same epidemic process, we gain immunity and then the virus essentially fizzles out to become background noise.

So once that process is complete, which normally lasts no more than a few weeks, we are done with the virus, we have immunity and we move on and vaccines don't come into the process. Obviously with the Flu, we just kind of play an annual guessing game and hope that we guessed the right way, though of course, as most of us know, the Flu virus is not particualry effective at all.

It's all so simple in your world.
The guy that you are quoting (Fergusson) modelled 500,000 deaths for the herd immunity approach that you are advocating. Would you be happy with that death total while the virus 'fizzles out'? Should we even try to reduce this figure if we can? The other factor that you are not considering is the strain on the health service, we simply could not cope with a herd immunity strategy. People would die unnecessarily because we would not have the resources to cope with them (this is what happened in Northern Italy). Thankfully we have not got to that stage in the UK because we locked down before it was too late.
 
It's all so simple in your world.
The guy that you are quoting (Fergusson) modelled 500,000 deaths for the herd immunity approach that you are advocating. Would you be happy with that death total while the virus 'fizzles out'? Should we even try to reduce this figure if we can? The other factor that you are not considering is the strain on the health service, we simply could not cope with a herd immunity strategy. People would die unnecessarily because we would not have the resources to cope with them (this is what happened in Northern Italy). Thankfully we have not got to that stage in the UK because we locked down before it was too late.
We've the highest death toll already. With a laissez faire approach we'd be a lot worse off, not fizzling out. Ferguson forecast 500,000. When is that an acceptable price to pay?
 
Have to praise my lad who's 20 in a couple of weeks. Not been out at all to meet his mates both at home and at Uni. I know they're all being quizmaster once a week and setting quizzes for each other which passes the time. Added to the fact he's currently doing his economic exams on line.
So good luck to all the kids sitting exams either now or shortly.
The OP invokes a certain mentality and type of behaviour that we are all aware of - the feckless, the selfish, those who just walk away from their responsibilities. But the likes of your lad get tarred with the same composite brush when it obviously isn't deserved. Good on 'im.
 
It's all so simple in your world.
The guy that you are quoting (Fergusson) modelled 500,000 deaths for the herd immunity approach that you are advocating. Would you be happy with that death total while the virus 'fizzles out'? Should we even try to reduce this figure if we can? The other factor that you are not considering is the strain on the health service, we simply could not cope with a herd immunity strategy. People would die unnecessarily because we would not have the resources to cope with them (this is what happened in Northern Italy). Thankfully we have not got to that stage in the UK because we locked down before it was too late.
It's not simple at all...

The Neil Ferguson Model has been widely criticised and even then, 500K was the worst case scenario and did not necessarily relate to excess deaths in any case....So it's highl;y probable that a massive proportion of the 500K or whatever a more realistic numbver might be, would actually have died anyway in a relatively short time of other causes

And yes we should try and reduce the number of people who die, but that's not what is happening is it? MORE people are potentially dying and more may well die still, due to adopting a lock-down approach. How many more deaths due to these soial isolation policies? There are thousands of extra non-covid deaths. How many more deaths in future due to resulting social and economic issues? How many extra deaths due to the fauilure to gain immunity in our healthly population? How many extra deaths from the failure to focus on effective protection / shielding of the vulnerable? How many extra deaths from the eventual rushed 'vaccine' solution?
 
It's not simple at all...

The Neil Ferguson Model has been widely criticised and even then, 500K was the worst case scenario and did not necessarily relate to excess deaths in any case....So it's highl;y probable that a massive proportion of the 500K or whatever a more realistic numbver might be, would actually have died anyway in a relatively short time of other causes

And yes we should try and reduce the number of people who die, but that's not what is happening is it? MORE people are potentially dying and more may well die still, due to adopting a lock-down approach. How many more deaths due to these soial isolation policies? There are thousands of extra non-covid deaths. How many more deaths in future due to resulting social and economic issues? How many extra deaths due to the fauilure to gain immunity in our healthly population? How many extra deaths from the failure to focus on effective protection / shielding of the vulnerable? How many extra deaths from the eventual rushed 'vaccine' solution?
Bifster, you are wasting your time here mate......it ain’t a debate with some of these, it’s just their opinion or you are automatically wrong. And All teenagers and young adults should all be shot (except of course when we were teenagers ourselves)...they are all scum should stay in their houses and do jigsaws with their Mums for the next 3/4 years until this fantasy vaccine is invented.

All they can spout is that everyone needs to stay in, stay in, stay in.......how long for?......what is going to change and by when? When we ease lockdown the R rate will go back up again and the faster we ease it the faster it will go up. We cannot stay on lockdown indefinitely unless there is a “solution” that we are waiting for...a vaccine literally may NEVER arrive. It’s tragic the whole pandemic but we are gonna have to get back to normal, more people are going to die, that is inevitable,especially those more vulnerable (But they must shield accordingly as now). The blame culture around this is ridiculous....The Tories are killing people, teenagers are killing people etc etc......no, the Virus is killing people

I read something in The Times a week or so ago that said nowadays in the UK and indeed Western Europe that “Death was the one inevitability that is now almost unacceptable to people”
 
Well this is all very jolly I must say.

So what it boils down to is....

We all die one day....

So is it better to have....

6 months ignoring social distancing and whooping it up with Latino and Asian ladies? or

2 years sat at home struggling to complete a jigsaw puzzle in somewhere like Lytham; Frinton on Sea; Weston Supermare? Before finally catching covid19 from your beloved grandchildren?

It’s a real melon scratcher and that’s for sure.
 
Well this is all very jolly I must say.

So what it boils down to is....

We all die one day....

So is it better to have....

6 months ignoring social distancing and whooping it up with Latino and Asian ladies? or

2 years sat at home struggling to complete a jigsaw puzzle in somewhere like Lytham; Frinton on Sea; Weston Supermare? Before finally catching covid19 from your beloved grandchildren?

It’s a real melon scratcher and that’s for sure.
If you think that is what it boils down to then you make Your choice Mex.....I like a nice Jigsaw myself
 
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