Joey Barton-Female football pundits row.

WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
He is spot on . Why put someone who has never played at the highest level, when there are so many footballers that have?
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Taken to its logical conclusion, that would end message board debate very quickly.

The wider issue that bemuses me is how threatened some men on here feel by opinionated and articulate women. You were all very happy to have one around to lead the protests back in the day.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Taken to its logical conclusion, that would end message board debate very quickly.

The wider issue that bemuses me is how threatened some men on here feel by opinionated and articulate women. You were all very happy to have one around to lead the protests back in the day.
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Now and again ,you get a diamond in the rock and you do get the odd woman who seems to know and talk well. Yet the only reason that she got the job would be because of this madness of equal opportunities . We are not equal ,but some people don't understand this. Women are better at some things as are men . So why overlook the hundreds of male ex footballers that would make good pundits to end up with a number of poor pundits to find one good one.
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
Now and again ,you get a diamond in the rock and you do get the odd woman who seems to know and talk well.
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I'm pleased to see you being so upbeat about the entire female sex. They'll be delighted that occasionally they are passing muster.

Let's not have them denying a platform to punditry giants like Martin Keown and Micah Richards though. That would be a tragedy for us all.
 
Pundits should be selected on their ability to inform, educate and engage the audience no matter what sex or colour they are. You should not have someone their just to fill a diversity quota. I must admit a number of the women are ill equipped to be a pundit (Eni Aluko being a prime example) yet some like Alex Scott is much better suited as she is far more intelligent and able to hold her own. I am not picking on women here as there are plenty of men who are awful as pundits. Scholes, Hargreaves, Owen to name just 3.
 
Sue Smith is absolutely brilliant whenever she is on t.v. but that Lianne Sanderson is absolutely terrible and a total hypocrite after her trip to The World Cup with Talksport
 
He is absolutely spot on, people are just afraid to agree.

There are some women who are good. Bianca Westwood and Laura Woods. But this is mainly cause they have a bit about them aswell

Blokes achieve a good level of camaraderie between them when analysing the football and that’s what a lot of us enjoy watching. Most women don’t contribute to this. It’s awkward and painful to watch and we’re all missing out on the experience.

Karen carney on MNF for example. Ruined. Jill scott on Gary Neville’s ‘stick to football’. Offers nothing. We have lost Gillette soccer Saturday to all of this. It has to stop.

I don’t like Michael Owen, Niall Quinn, steve mc. I hate their commentary. But I’d rather listen to them than a women who has never played the game. I’d rather listen to a women who has good knowledge of the game and a bit about them, but unfortunately there aren’t many in that world.
 
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What annoys me is the FA cup draws, I don't care which sex compares it but why do they have to tell us a fact about every team picked out? The ones picking the balls out have to stand with it in hand waiting whilst the compare says something like, Blackpool, won the cup in 1953 or 9th in Division 1, beat Bromley in round 1 just get on with it.
 
This isn't just about sexism either, this is about race and all different areas of society. Some of the punditry is awful. For example, Clinton Morrison belongs in a gangster movie, nevermind a football studio but at least he has played the men's game at a professional level.

There is nothing wrong with diversity and we should all encourage but I agree with Joey that it's become a bit of a farce and a tick box exercise.
 
Chrismalkin said:
He is absolutely spot on, people are just afraid to agree.

There are some women who are good. Bianca Westwood and Laura Woods. But this is mainly cause they have a bit about them aswell

Blokes achieve a good level of camaraderie between them when analysing the football and that’s what a lot of us enjoy watching. Most women don’t contribute to this. It’s awkward and painful to watch and we’re all missing out on the experience.

Karen carney on MNF for example. Ruined. Jill scott on Gary Neville’s ‘stick to football’. Offers nothing. We have lost Gillette soccer Saturday to all of this. It has to stop.

I don’t like Michael Owen, Niall Quinn, steve mc. I hate their commentary. But I’d rather listen to them than a women who has never played the game. I’d rather listen to a women who has good knowledge of the game and a bit about them, but unfortunately there aren’t many in that world.
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Won't be a popular post but I think it's a good one.
 
A_Tense_Grin said:
Won't be a popular post but I think it's a good one.
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This is the problem though. People afraid to say what they think, so they don’t speak at all.

I don’t like Joey Barton but he’s saying what most blokes are thinking. If I’m paying £100 a month for sky, I don’t want to resent it, which is what’s happening when it’s being forced down my throat.
 
Watching sport has all become a box ticking exercise nowadays and it ain't just Football.

The two of the other sports I watch-
F1 stood next to ex World Champion Hill & Button is a female I've never heard of or seen race.
Darts next to Part and Mardle(2 overweight middle aged men) similar and both are eye candy which is a bad as box ticking if their getting the gig because of it.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Taken to its logical conclusion, that would end message board debate very quickly.

The wider issue that bemuses me is how threatened some men on here feel by opinionated and articulate women. You were all very happy to have one around to lead the protests back in the day.
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You’ll remember mocking them I’m sure big boy 💪🏽
 
JB definitely has a point, but I think he has portrayed it incorrectly.

Many pundits / commentators we now have on our screen are not up to the job. The majority of woman we now see are very new to the role given today’s equality society, some are brilliant but some are horrendous. Shouting and screaming cliches does not qualify you to be good at something, it hurts our ears.

I was never a fan of Elton Welsby or Jim Beglin, and rarely watched a game they commentated on. Today’s game is no different. It’s not because they are female, it’s because they appear to be in position on anything other than merit.

We have to be equal, but give the jobs to the right people.
 
Chrismalkin said:
This is the problem though. People afraid to say what they think, so they don’t speak at all.

I don’t like Joey Barton but he’s saying what most blokes are thinking. If I’m paying £100 a month for sky, I don’t want to resent it, which is what’s happening when it’s being forced down my throat.
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Agree. There is also a fine balance as well between presenting and co-commentary. There are plenty of great women presenters who do that side of things very well and I don't have a problem with this. Gabby Logan, Sue Barker, etc. This is where there should be total equality. It's when it gets to the point where analysis is required either in co-comms or the studio. This isn't about sexism, this is about being good at the job and even some men fall short of this. I've highlighted Clinton Morrison and I will also highlight Dion Dublin who I don't think warrants or is good enough to co-commentate during England matches. I even find Micah Richards painful but he least he brings in some commeradery with the right people with him. What all those people have in common though is that they have played the game at a high level so even though I don't think they are great pundits, you still value their opinion to some degree.

Let's be honest here, the three best shows where you actually listen:

Match of the Day - Lineker, Shearer and Ian Wright. Different type of show as more factual but you listen to them because they know their stuff.
Sky - Neville, Roy Keane, Souness - People will call them dinosaurs but they are debating things like we would in the pub. Great watch.
Soccer Saturday - Similar to the above, doesn't fit the agenda as it was a bunch of old white blokes debating football. It was enjoyable though and does equality really have to brought into it?
 
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basilrobbie3 said:
I'm pleased to see you being so upbeat about the entire female sex. They'll be delighted that occasionally they are passing muster.

Let's not have them denying a platform to punditry giants like Martin Keown and Micah Richards though. That would be a tragedy for us all.
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You forgot Dean Windass ,but I never said that every ex footballer was going to be good at the job . It's still more likely that someone who has done something would know more about it then someone who hasn't.
 
Middling player with no experience at the highest level dislikes people with no experience at the highest level commentating on it.

He's a ** bellend.

Gary Lineker has as much experience as anyone who's ever played, yet the same sad old men complaining about things changing don't want him either.
 
A_Tense_Grin said:
Agree. There is also a fine balance as well between presenting and co-commentary. There are plenty of great women presenters who do that side of things very well and I don't have a problem with this. Gabby Logan, Sue Barker, etc. This is where there should be total equality. It's when it gets to the point where analysis is required either in co-comms or the studio. This isn't about sexism, this is about being good at the job and even some men fall short of this. I've highlighted Clinton Morrison and I will also highlight Dion Dublin who I don't think warrants or is good enough to co-commentate during England matches. I even find Micah Richards painful but he least he brings in some commeradery with the right people with him. What all those people have in common though is that they have played the game at a high level so even though I don't think they are great pundits, you still value their opinion to some degree.

Let's be honest here, the three best shows where you actually listen:

Match of the Day - Lineker, Shearer and Ian Wright. Different type of show as more factual but you listen to them because they know their stuff.
Sky - Neville, Roy Keane, Souness - People will call them dinosaurs but they are debating things like we would in the pub. Great watch.
Soccer Saturday - Similar to the above, doesn't fit the agenda as it was a bunch of old white blokes debating football. It was enjoyable though and does equality really have to brought into it?
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Yep. Fully agree on the pundit vs presenter point. It’s something a lot of people miss the point on. A lot of the female presenters are great and produce good debate amongst the pundits.

Females share this view also by the way. My mrs doesn’t like football but will often pick up on the uncomfortable ‘vibe’ when you have a token female presenter in the studio. Carragher and Neville have great chemistry - why ruin that by sticking Karen Carney in to the mix? What on earth does she offer?

It’s offensive to the females taking these jobs. They don’t see it this way. But imagine being stood in one of these studios on a technicality. It’s degrading.

Joey won the argument last night when Bianca and the lady in the red top started with the nonsensical shouting. There’s no logic behind their opposition to tokenism, it’s just blind passion and a sign of how carried away ‘wokeism’ has become. Worlds absolutely crackers.
 
Chrismalkin said:
He is absolutely spot on, people are just afraid to agree.

There are some women who are good. Bianca Westwood and Laura Woods. But this is mainly cause they have a bit about them aswell

Blokes achieve a good level of camaraderie between them when analysing the football and that’s what a lot of us enjoy watching. Most women don’t contribute to this. It’s awkward and painful to watch and we’re all missing out on the experience.

Karen carney on MNF for example. Ruined. Jill scott on Gary Neville’s ‘stick to football’. Offers nothing. We have lost Gillette soccer Saturday to all of this. It has to stop.

I don’t like Michael Owen, Niall Quinn, steve mc. I hate their commentary. But I’d rather listen to them than a women who has never played the game. I’d rather listen to a women who has good knowledge of the game and a bit about them, but unfortunately there aren’t many in that world.
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You've contradicted yourself by naming women who are good, surely?If there are good women pundits, there is no discussion to be had. There are men who are bad too. Including men who have played the game at the highest level. And some good men who never played. You can't just rule out the contributions of anyone who hasn't played the game. Barton just appears threatened by it, to me. The game is for everyone, and punditry is nmot all about expert analysis either. A lot of women watch football and don't just want male camaeraderie.
 
Ironic that Sky have brought in women pundits and co-commentators in the name of equality when their female Sports presenting staff is like the contents of a 1998 FHM magazine.
 
Macseasider said:
Ironic that Sky have brought in women pundits and co-commentators in the name of equality when their female Sports presenting staff is like the contents of a 1998 FHM magazine.
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It's not really ironic, it's a commercial decision, I think. A lot of female viewers.
 
voyeur said:
You've contradicted yourself by naming women who are good, surely?If there are good women pundits, there is no discussion to be had. There are men who are bad too. Including men who have played the game at the highest level. And some good men who never played. You can't just rule out the contributions of anyone who hasn't played the game. Barton just appears threatened by it, to me. The game is for everyone, and punditry is nmot all about expert analysis either. A lot of women watch football and don't just want male camaeraderie.
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How have I? There are a few women presenters/pundits who are decent. But there’s dozens who are terrible, getting lots of air time, over good male pundits. Because it ticks a box.

It’s not all or nothing. Just stop giving the poor ones jobs for the sake of ticking a box.
 
Fr33jack said:
Any job should go to the best candidate no matter their gender or ethnicity. Purely my opinion.
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That’s basically where I’m at with all this.
As for Joey Barton, I’d rather he piśśed off quietly into retirement. Didn’t like him as a player. Bit of an idiot as a manager. Spoke out about the Oyston’s, so that’s one bonus point.
 
jevans said:
i can't believe so many people actually watch all the analysis. generally, i switch the channel as soon as the half/full time whistle has gone.
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That's the whole point. More and more women are now co-commentating during the matches. That is Joey's point whether right or wrong.
 
Tangman74 said:
What I find now is that they are using women pundits purely to be PC - which is pretty annoying
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It's even worse than when they replace a woman who's talented and good at her job with a man who's younger just to appeal to the "Yoof"

E.g. Sue Barker/Paddy McWhatshisface
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Taken to its logical conclusion, that would end message board debate very quickly.

The wider issue that bemuses me is how threatened some men on here feel by opinionated and articulate women. You were all very happy to have one around to lead the protests back in the day.
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Did she really "lead" the protests? I think not.
 
Chrismalkin said:
Yep. Fully agree on the pundit vs presenter point. It’s something a lot of people miss the point on. A lot of the female presenters are great and produce good debate amongst the pundits.

Females share this view also by the way. My mrs doesn’t like football but will often pick up on the uncomfortable ‘vibe’ when you have a token female presenter in the studio. Carragher and Neville have great chemistry - why ruin that by sticking Karen Carney in to the mix? What on earth does she offer?

It’s offensive to the females taking these jobs. They don’t see it this way. But imagine being stood in one of these studios on a technicality. It’s degrading.

Joey won the argument last night when Bianca and the lady in the red top started with the nonsensical shouting. There’s no logic behind their opposition to tokenism, it’s just blind passion and a sign of how carried away ‘wokeism’ has become. Worlds absolutely crackers.
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You are 100% correct. Most female football fans share the same view.

This is not about sad old men and their sexist agenda as much as people try and play the high almighty modern man card.
 
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