Astra Zeneca suspended

TwelveAngryMen said:
Just listened to one of our vaccine experts on the way into work - can't recall his name
He says Covid itself causes blood clots and his view was that the risks associated with contracting the virus and suffering such clots is infinitely higher than suffering clotting post vaccine
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One of the reasons why taking aspirin daily is recommended.

Sneaky single to bring up a well earned century for Wiz 👍
 
Some key extracts from that AZ report:

“A careful review of all available safety data of more than 17 million people vaccinated in the European Union (EU) and UK with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca has shown no evidence of an increased risk of pulmonary embolism, deep vein thrombosis (DVT) or thrombocytopenia, in any defined age group, gender, batch or in any particular country.”

“So far across the EU and UK, there have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among those given the vaccine, based on the number of cases the Company has received as of 8 March. This is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar across other licensed COVID-19 vaccines.”

Ann Taylor, Chief Medical Officer, said: “Around 17 million people in the EU and UK have now received our vaccine, and the number of cases of blood clots reported in this group is lower than the hundreds of cases that would be expected among the general population. The nature of the pandemic has led to increased attention in individual cases and we are going beyond the standard practices for safety monitoring of licensed medicines in reporting vaccine events, to ensure public safety.”
 
Both the EMA and WHO have agreed that there is no additional risk but now the Dutch have suspended the use of the vaccine for a fortnight.

Mind you, there's plenty on here who have no time for the EMA and WHO unless it suits 😉
 
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Reading that the Russians are being asked to supply Europe with the Sputnik recipe to be manufactured within the EU.

Back in the EUSSR or something...
 
I don’t know how much of this AZ vaccine bashing is politicking or sour grapes I don’t know. More for our program & second jabs.
 
With the anti vax feeling in Europe, particularly in France, this is going to convince many more not to have it. The result will undoubtedly be many more contracting the virus, leading to more variants and sadly more deaths. I fail to see the logic
 
So the question is would you take the risk of having the AZ jab with 30+ blood clot cases not yet linked in over 17 million jabs, or the high risk of blood clots caused by contracting Covid 19? These countries really are being overly cautious IMO, but it’s up to each individual countries health organisations, given that cases are rising across Europe in most countries a 2 week suspension equals several million not having even a first jab!
 
TSSeasider said:
I honestly think this is just being really, really cautious.
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I think the word you are looking for is "idiotic".

They've quite obviously convinced themselves there's something wrong with the vaccine and are basing their responses on that rather than any kind of science.

More to the point who's actually running their healthcare regulators and why are they ignoring fairly basic science?
 
If someone somewhere was writing a political satire they might include a story line that goes like this. How bizarre that on the one hand the EU whines about fulfilment of their contract for delivery of AZ shots, then on the other hand some of its biggest hitters undermine the effectiveness of rollout in their own countries. I feel for the people who live there, every day counts in containing this virus.
 
A mate of mine who works in Germany and is 62 years old can’t even be given a month never mind a date for when can get his vaccine over there!
 
Tangojoe said:
Italy is in crisis and doctors there are still campaigning to not use AZ. Ireland say they are happy with the vaccine but have still suspended it. This is all because of political posturing by the EU as there is no evidence whatsoever to dispute the drug's medical efficacy.
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How can it be when there are 27 EU countries and they've all got a different response? Once again, hatred getting in the way of rational thought.
 
It wasn’t that long ago that Macron said the AZ/Oxford vaccine was “almost ineffective” in the over 65 age group, whilst pushing the effectiveness of the French vaccine alternative.

Now the ‘real-world’ data shows AZ to be extremely effective at preventing infection, symptoms and death in all age groups.
 
TSSeasider said:
Reading that the Russians are being asked to supply Europe with the Sputnik recipe to be manufactured within the EU.

Back in the EUSSR or something...
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They just don't get it do they?

The problem is it takes months to scale up production, that's why they're so far behind the UK, we started production months earlier.

Starting from now they'll be lucky to have anything ready by September.
 
Lost Seasider said:
They just don't get it do they?

The problem is it takes months to scale up production, that's why they're so far behind the UK, we started production months earlier.

Starting from now they'll be lucky to have anything ready by September.
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It's a catastrophe and their citizens are going to die because of it.

I don't think it's the end of the EU or anything like that, but there will a question raised about overreach.

I feel for the Italians really. They've had an horrific 12 months and now this.
 
It's a ridiculous situation. We need the whole world vaccinating, not just the UK. Like others have said, I feel sorry for the citizens of these countries. Being denied a vaccine whilst their leaders take incompetence to new levels.
Did I read somewhere that Italy is experiencing another big wave of covid? And you can bet it'll spread to other European countries and people will die unnecessarily due to the stupidity and incompetence of the leaders.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Lost for once you and I are in agreement
Utter madness when their populations are dying from covid whilst they pontificate
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I've been following Covid Actuaries throughout the pandemic because they do death and death rates for a living.

This was their blog for today.

"The risk varies substantially with age; for people under 40 years the annual incidence of venous thromboembolism is 1 in 10,000, whereas for people over 80 years the incidence rises to 1 in 100.

Therefore, the reported cases of thromboembolic events being reported in relation to the AstraZeneca vaccine are far fewer than might normally be expected in the absence of any vaccinations."

On reflection, it's madness and will cost lives as they don't vaccinate and add fuel to the antivax movement.

www.covid-arg.com

Why have some countries paused use of the AstraZeneca vaccine?

Blood clots being reported in relation to the AstraZeneca vaccine are fewer than might normally be expected in the absence of vaccinations
www.covid-arg.com www.covid-arg.com
 
On the news just now, 28 blood clots from AZ vaccine in the U.K., and 25 from Pfizer vaccine, with almost 25 million doses delivered between them. They say this is lower than they would normally expect. So is this just political because they didn’t get what they wanted.
 
It's such a strange situation. Everywhere I've looked the numbers suggest that the incidence of blot-clot deaths is lower than you would expect from those vaccinated, yet several countries have now suspended using it. The only reason I can think is that in the incidences where it has happened, it must have been: a) quite soon after the jab and b) people who were very low risk - and therefore have reasons to believe the vaccine is at fault. Otherwise I can't fathom why they would suspend it over numbers which are very small and actually lower than expected.

I think the real danger is the public's confidence in Astra Zeneca will already be gone, when they finally do decide it's safe to use - the damage would have been done. They've already slagged it off for months - saying it's not effective, and now they're saying they need to suspend it because it could pose a risk to life. Anti-vaxxers are a growing phenomenon and in places like France where there is much less trust in the government, it could cause a real issues going forward with vaccine uptake.
 
There were already nearly empty AZ vaccination centres in Germany, before this latest round of dangerous scaremongering.

Compare and contrast to my experience of the jab last Saturday where they were rattling through the numbers with admirable German like efficiency.
 
Matesrates said:
So is this just political because they didn’t get what they wanted.
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I think it's something similar to hypochondria or a form of hysteria, they've convinced themselves that there much be something wrong with it and are thus buy into every rumour and scare story regardless of the science.
 
tangerine_neil said:
There were already nearly empty AZ vaccination centres in Germany, before this latest round of dangerous scaremongering.

Compare and contrast to my experience of the jab last Saturday where they were rattling through the numbers with admirable German like efficiency.
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Trust me - German efficiency is a great marketing ploy of the Germans - it does not exist!!

I lived there for a while and it was absolutely the opposite.
 
seasideone said:
Trust me - German efficiency is a great marketing ploy of the Germans - it does not exist!!

I lived there for a while and it was absolutely the opposite.
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It used to be S1 when l first lived there in 1990, but as the years have gone by and with the wall coming down and with open borders (Shengan) German efficiency is most definitely not what it was.
 
Tangojoe said:
Italy is in crisis and doctors there are still campaigning to not use AZ. Ireland say they are happy with the vaccine but have still suspended it. This is all because of political posturing by the EU as there is no evidence whatsoever to dispute the drug's medical efficacy.
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Wizaard said:
How can it be when there are 27 EU countries and they've all got a different response? Once again, hatred getting in the way of rational thought.
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So, the scientists say there's no issue with the vaccine's safety, ALL the regulatory bodies say it's safe, more than 11 million doses have been rolled out in the UK with no negative issues, the UK medics say that the incidence of blood clots is actually higher in those who have not been vaccinated.
But you carry on believing that it's not being banned for political reasons if it makes you feel better.
 
Tangojoe said:
So, the scientists say there's no issue with the vaccine's safety, ALL the regulatory bodies say it's safe, more than 11 million doses have been rolled out in the UK with no negative issues, the UK medics say that the incidence of blood clots is actually higher in those who have not been vaccinated.
But you carry on believing that it's not being banned for political reasons if it makes you feel better.
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So you explain to me why 22 of the EU countries havent suspended it if it's a political directive.
 
Wizaard said:
So you explain to me why 22 of the EU countries havent suspended it if it's a political directive.
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Maybe because they're all over the place with this vaccine issue. The left hand clearly doesn't know what the right hand is doing. And that goes back to the original mess the EC made of the vaccine roll out. No wonder countries are now going their own way.
 
Wizaard said:
So you explain to me why 22 of the EU countries havent suspended it if it's a political directive.
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For exactly the reasons I posted at #140 above, namely there's nothing wrong with the AZ vaccine.

Clearly, if the vaccine is medically proven all 27 member states should be using it. The only possible reason for not doing so is political. Real lives being sacrificed in a vain attempt at point scoring against the UK.
 
The EU is doing a better job of stopping vaccinations than it did giving them. Madness, just get on with it ffs, how many will die while they argue over the extremely remote possibility some may get blood clots.
 
Scaramanga said:
The EU is doing a better job of stopping vaccinations than it did giving them. Madness, just get on with it ffs, how many will die while they argue over the extremely remote possibility some may get blood clots.
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For the hundredth time, its NOT the EU wielding power. It's a series of sovereign states, less than half of which are in the EU, suspending the vaccine. I have no idea why.

Since when are Norway, Thailand, Singapore and the Democratic Republic of Congo amongst others at the behest of the EU? Obsessed.
 
Wizaard said:
For the hundredth time, its NOT the EU wielding power. It's a series of sovereign states, less than half of which are in the EU, suspending the vaccine. I have no idea why.

Since when are Norway, Thailand, Singapore and the Democratic Republic of Congo amongst others at the behest of the EU? Obsessed.
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Singapore is nothing to do with it as they are not using or have approved AZ yet.
 
Wizaard said:
For the hundredth time, its NOT the EU wielding power. It's a series of sovereign states, less than half of which are in the EU, suspending the vaccine. I have no idea why.

Since when are Norway, Thailand, Singapore and the Democratic Republic of Congo amongst others at the behest of the EU? Obsessed.
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Nope, just following the news close to home. And getting rather pissed off with the absolute shite job so many are doing with the vaccination process.
 
BWseasider said:
It's such a strange situation. Everywhere I've looked the numbers suggest that the incidence of blot-clot deaths is lower than you would expect from those vaccinated, yet several countries have now suspended using it. The only reason I can think is that in the incidences where it has happened, it must have been: a) quite soon after the jab and b) people who were very low risk - and therefore have reasons to believe the vaccine is at fault. Otherwise I can't fathom why they would suspend it over numbers which are very small and actually lower than expected.

I think the real danger is the public's confidence in Astra Zeneca will already be gone, when they finally do decide it's safe to use - the damage would have been done. They've already slagged it off for months - saying it's not effective, and now they're saying they need to suspend it because it could pose a risk to life. Anti-vaxxers are a growing phenomenon and in places like France where there is much less trust in the government, it could cause a real issues going forward with vaccine uptake.
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I did read today a suggestion that in Norway (where they had a serious reaction) they have been giving the AZ vaccine to health workers and that they are more likely to be pre-menopausal females and on birth control (which has a clot risk). I know we have vaccined lots under the age of 50 but, if Blackpool Vic is anything to go by, they have been using Pfizer on their health workers, so maybe the UK AZ dosages have majored on the over 50s so far.

Maybe not the scenario above but I wonder if there is a slightly elevated risk in an age/gender/health/medicine group combination that we have not seen in the UK as we have had a different rollout profile. That said, it sounds like the likelihood is still very low and much lower than the risk of the virus, and delaying is likely to lead to more problems than it solves.
 
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