25% Steel and Aluminum Tariffs on UK Goods

20togo said:
It's not our decision to make is it? Surely whatever Ukraine accept then you have to accept it too. At this point in time all we can do is wait and see.
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Yet you keep saying that Russia won't accept peacekeepers, won't give up territory, won't do anything, in other words, unless it's exactly want they want.

Why do they get to call all the shots?
 
Wizaard said:
Yet you keep saying that Russia won't accept peacekeepers, won't give up territory, won't do anything, in other words, unless it's exactly want they want.

Why do they get to call all the shots?
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If America don't tell them then who is? And if you think it's down to NATO then why didn't we do something more than we already have 3 years ago. Like i keep pointing out Ukraine are not in NATO so it just isn't as straight forward as you think it should be. To tell Russia to get out of Ukraine we need the US on board and as it stands i don't think that will happen. Why? Because first and foremost it's all about the deal for Trump. ie what's in it for him and America. He won't commit US troops into Uktaine if there's a deal to be done with Putin over minerals.
 
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20togo said:
If America don't tell them then who is? And if you think it's down to NATO then why didn't we do something more than we already have 3 years ago. Like i keep pointing out Ukraine are not in NATO so it just isn't as straight forward as you think it should be. To tell Russia to get out of Ukraine we need the US on board and as it stands i don't think that will happen. Why? Because first and foremost it's all about the deal for Trump. ie what's in it for him and America. He won't commit US troops into Uktaine if there's a deal to be done with Putin over minerals.
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Even though they aren't Putin's to deal with?
 
Wizaard said:
Even though they aren't Putin's to deal with?
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unfortunately yes. As soon as Trump brought all this stuff into play that he has the whole scenario changed. Of course it's not right but that's where we're at. Again you might not like it and it's not right but that's why Zelensky is to an extent having to suck up to Trump because that's the best way for him to get the best deal he can for Ukraine. Putin is happy to keep sending people to die, Zelensky less so i expect. He needs the deal much more than Putin. That's the sad reality.
 
Bit of a non-issue as far as we should be concerned.
A competent Government would ensure our own steel industry not only survived, but flourishes, with exports to countries most affected by the Trump tariff’s, e.g. Canada.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Bit of a non-issue as far as we should be concerned.
A competent Government would ensure our own steel industry not only survived, but flourishes, with exports to countries most affected by the Trump tariff’s, e.g. Canada.
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The worry is that foreign companies who have to stop exports to USA dump cheaper steel into the UK market making our own steel uncompetitive as costs are higher here.
The solution would be to tariff steel imports ourselves but we are trying to avoid that.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
The worry is that foreign companies who have to stop exports to USA dump cheaper steel into the UK market making our own steel uncompetitive as costs are higher here.
The solution would be to tariff steel imports ourselves but we are trying to avoid that.
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I’m not sure it makes much sense to voluntarily increase the price of steel we import (whether that’s from the US or elsewhere) by imposing tariffs. Why would we think increasing the price of anything we buy is a good idea?

That said, yes I can see why it makes sense to support the U.K. steel industry. As we’ll presumably need steel as a result of the increase in defence spending, why not a system of “Buy British” where we can? And where we can’t, we buy cheaper steel from overseas.

Yes, because of the higher U.K. production costs that means we’d be paying a higher price for our own product (essentially a subsidy of sorts) but at least we’d have the upside of cheaper imports from elsewhere. We’d lose that upside if we imposed tariffs.
 
It was so stupid and childish to name call trump over the past years just in case he won again he's hardly likely to do a special deal for starmer and lammy 🤷‍♂️
 
Threepeaksphil said:
It was so stupid and childish to name call trump over the past years just in case he won again he's hardly likely to do a special deal for starmer and lammy 🤷‍♂️
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He literally said he would do exactly that when Starmer brown nosed him the other week. With Trump it's hard to tell what he will do next but it's not off the table as you suggest.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I’m not sure it makes much sense to voluntarily increase the price of steel we import (whether that’s from the US or elsewhere) by imposing tariffs. Why would we think increasing the price of anything we buy is a good idea?

That said, yes I can see why it makes sense to support the U.K. steel industry. As we’ll presumably need steel as a result of the increase in defence spending, why not a system of “Buy British” where we can? And where we can’t, we buy cheaper steel from overseas.

Yes, because of the higher U.K. production costs that means we’d be paying a higher price for our own product (essentially a subsidy of sorts) but at least we’d have the upside of cheaper imports from elsewhere. We’d lose that upside if we imposed tariffs.
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Yes agree with that but the only way a business will buy British is with subsidies when the same product is cheaper elsewhere without. This creates its own problems, perhaps nationalisation is an option but again that brings problems.
 
Macseasider said:
The swathes of Trump lovers on here won't mind. Because they think he's ace rather than being a deranged lunatic.
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I certainly don't think Trump is ace. He's anything but and as you say a deranged lunatic. But that's never been my focus. My focus is how you stop the war and unfortunately Trump holds great power. You might not like that but it's a fact and why he, Putin and Zelensky have to find a solution. Because if you think Putin is simply just gonna withdraw from Ukraine without any benefits or rewards then you can rank alongside Trump as deranged.

Deal with the reality of the situation. Not fantasy of what are the rights and wrongs! We know what's wrong but putting it right is nigh on impossible whilst Trump doesn't firmly back NATO.
 
Wizaard said:
Now is the time for unity with Europe against two bullies, Putin and Trump.
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But how far do you go with unity. Talk the talk is one thing but walking the walk is another. Do you naively believe we've got the firepower to take on US and Putin? Deal with the reality.

You continuing to peddle this line makes it out you are just angling for WW3.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Yes agree with that but the only way a business will buy British is with subsidies when the same product is cheaper elsewhere without. This creates its own problems, perhaps nationalisation is an option but again that brings problems.
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I can’t see this government nationalising anything except rail companies that come to the end of their franchises, or just perhaps a water company that falls of it’s perch and into the drink.
I guess it then comes down to offering subsidy incentives to buy British, or paying a big wadge later on to any steel company that is in distress.
I don’t know which of those would be cheaper, but I would think the former would be less disruptive and keep the wheels running more smoothly.
 
glasshalffull said:
The boycott of US produced goods seems to be picking up quite a head of steam in certain parts of the world as well. The first big victim being Tesla.
If this process intensifies and is sustained you have to think Trump will just have to change tack, but it is just possible it is already too late to stop the rot.
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This is the thing tough. We all want the government to step in but we don’t want it to personally affect us. The Canadian government are playing tough, but the Canadian people are being even tougher with their boycott of American goods. I wonder how many of us have stopped buying from Macdonalds, shut our Fakebook and Amazon accounts down etc etc. Stop drinking Coca Cola. We’re all in it together aren’t we?
 
glasshalffull said:
I can’t see this government nationalising anything except rail companies that come to the end of their franchises, or just perhaps a water company that falls of it’s perch and into the drink.
I guess it then comes down to offering subsidy incentives to buy British, or paying a big wadge later on to any steel company that is in distress.
I don’t know which of those would be cheaper, but I would think the former would be less disruptive and keep the wheels running more smoothly.
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This government? It’s been like that since Thatcher privatised them, and Blair carried on the work.
 
traffordtang said:
This is the thing tough. We all want the government to step in but we don’t want it to personally affect us. The Canadian government are playing tough, but the Canadian people are being even tougher with their boycott of American goods. I wonder how many of us have stopped buying from Macdonalds, shut our Fakebook and Amazon accounts down etc etc. Stop drinking Coca Cola. We’re all in it together aren’t we?
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It doesn’t feel like it is happening in the UK, not yet anyway. People also have little patience and short memories so it might peter out elsewhere as well.
It sounds a pretty serious movement in Canada, Scandinavia, Germany and some other countries at the moment. If they keep it up it might cause a rethink in the US.
This constant bullying, and ratcheting of economic leverage is not good for prosperity or any nation’s economy.
 
20togo said:
But how far do you go with unity. Talk the talk is one thing but walking the walk is another. Do you naively believe we've got the firepower to take on US and Putin? Deal with the reality.

You continuing to peddle this line makes it out you are just angling for WW3.
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Not at all, but talking tough is the only language those two admire. They are used to people rolling over, but back down if stood up to. That's always the way with bullies.
 
20togo said:
I find it highly amusing that you lefties recently called me a Trump fan boy yet here you are clearly forgetting that your hero Starmer is the biggest one of the lot. Double standards at it's finest eh! Oh just for the record i'm not a Trump fan boy either.
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The thread's about Trump's tarriffs, not you. I couldn't give a toss who you support.
 
Our British steel supplier industry (according to Dr Google) is £2 billion and declining. I don't know how much is actually exported to the US though I suspect it's going to be pretty small as there's lower cost exporting countries than Blighty who I suspect would win that business?

Right now the Tariffs are an economic gamble by the US. It's under pinned by Trumps drive to get jobs back in the US northern cities and potentially forcing companies to relocate there like the Taiwanese chip manufacturers or be too expensive versus companies that will move there. I'm not convinced by the rhetoric of how it drove their 19th century wealth, I suspect they know exactly how that can't work now in such a globalised trade economy?

So I think it's clever politics. They're happy for people to call Trump a 'thicky' and the tariffs won't be long lived except where they want to beat up weaker countries for even better trade terms. It will be a 2025 thing. They'll get commitments from a large number of manufacturing corporations to relocate (along with tax breaks on top). They'll then step back before inflation goes crazy but with a resolution for jobless and talent drain, and regeneration of some shithole towns who have declined over decades.

If the UK had their sway I'd love us to do the same and flood the North with new opportunities
 
Serious point. Trump's exit from NATO - that's what he's threatening, real or not - means that Europe has to build up its own defences. That much we already know and the EU plus the UK, have met to discuss the way forward. My view is that we should now be putting our country's defences before balance sheets or profit & loss accounts, when it comes to building up our armaments. As such, we should be using British steel and British workers to build naval vessels, tanks, aircraft, weaponry and other materiel. Whilst this will inevitably come with a higher price tag, there will be a much needed boost to the economy and increased income from taxation on wages and company profits as the economy grows. Also, because these sectors require long term planning to invent, develop and produce the manufactures needed by the military, such growth creates long term jobs; precisely what Starmer has been banging on about.

Let's make off-shoring a thing of the past. It only benefits the countries who manufacture and supply the goods we need. I've always been against it and, I think, it is now losing its lustre with all but the most fervent right wing libertarians.
 
Wizaard said:
Not at all, but talking tough is the only language those two admire. They are used to people rolling over, but back down if stood up to. That's always the way with bullies.
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You're absolutely correct saying that's the way to deal with bullies. And Trump and Putin are the
biggest, nastiest bullies on the planet. I bet it was a huge shock to Putin that Ukraine didn't roll over
in a few days like he expected.
But unfortunately I don't think we're in a strong enough position at this moment to stand up to them.
That's why Starmer has had to suck up to Trump. I bet he's hated it. Despite disagreeing with some
of his domestic policies, I think he's done quite well on this issue.
You've got try and put your dislike of Trump and Putin to one side and look at the bigger picture and
what's important. And that's stopping this awful war and senseless loss of life.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
You're absolutely correct saying that's the way to deal with bullies. And Trump and Putin are the
biggest, nastiest bullies on the planet. I bet it was a huge shock to Putin that Ukraine didn't roll over
in a few days like he expected.
But unfortunately I don't think we're in a strong enough position at this moment to stand up to them.
That's why Starmer has had to suck up to Trump. I bet he's hated it. Despite disagreeing with some
of his domestic policies, I think he's done quite well on this issue.
You've got try and put your dislike of Trump and Putin to one side and look at the bigger picture and
what's important. And that's stopping this awful war and senseless loss of life.
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But Putin is the type to think, "I've gained territory here, now for a bit of the Baltic."
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
You're absolutely correct saying that's the way to deal with bullies. And Trump and Putin are the
biggest, nastiest bullies on the planet. I bet it was a huge shock to Putin that Ukraine didn't roll over
in a few days like he expected.
But unfortunately I don't think we're in a strong enough position at this moment to stand up to them.
That's why Starmer has had to suck up to Trump. I bet he's hated it. Despite disagreeing with some
of his domestic policies, I think he's done quite well on this issue.
You've got try and put your dislike of Trump and Putin to one side and look at the bigger picture and
what's important. And that's stopping this awful war and senseless loss of life.
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It all depends at what point and what proportion of Ukraine is it acceptable to give up to Russia? That shouldn't be America's or even Russia's call, as they are the aggressors in all of this.

If Ukraine can't accept the terms of peace because it's too big a sacrifice, then we should support that decision as well as we can, financially and in materials.
 
Wizaard said:
It all depends at what point and what proportion of Ukraine is it acceptable to give up to Russia? That shouldn't be America's or even Russia's call, as they are the aggressors in all of this.

If Ukraine can't accept the terms of peace because it's too big a sacrifice, then we should support that decision as well as we can, financially and in materials.
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I totally agree with your sentiments. But you've got to start somewhere to try and end this war.
As the Americans have said, the ball is now in Russia's court. We'll now see what Putin's terms are.
I think we all know that he'll want to keep the land they've grabbed and want assurances that
Ukraine won't join Nato or the EU etc etc.
So if that's not acceptable to Ukraine I agree that they shouldn't accept them. But like you've said,
it's got to be Ukraine's decision. What we think, or anybody else thinks is acceptable or not is irrelevant.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I totally agree with your sentiments. But you've got to start somewhere to try and end this war.
As the Americans have said, the ball is now in Russia's court. We'll now see what Putin's terms are.
I think we all know that he'll want to keep the land they've grabbed and want assurances that
Ukraine won't join Nato or the EU etc etc.
So if that's not acceptable to Ukraine I agree that they shouldn't accept them. But like you've said,
it's got to be Ukraine's decision. What we think, or anybody else thinks is acceptable or not is irrelevant.
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It doesn’t help Ukraine that Trump has already ceded away two of their very few bargaining chips in public and before any negotiations were even close by denying them the possibility of ever joining NATO, and of them regaining land they have lost.
The Russians will sit down with most of what they want in the bag and able to pick away at other stuff they might like.
 
China has announced that they have cancelled all contracts to buy US Beef for 2025
The contracts have now been switched to Canada & Brazil.

Trumps brilliant tariff war to Make America Great Again, has just cost USA Farmers $1.7billion in sales.
China has also slapped a reciprocal 15% - 26% tariff on ALL US agricultural products ($17billion)

Canada ($3billion) & Brazil ($1,3billion) are laughing all the way to the bank as they don't have to export to the USA or pay that tariff

Trump just f##ked every farmer in the USA
 
April13th1970 said:
Apparently Trump has said whoever signed the USMCA trade agreement in 2020 was an idiot.

He finally got something right as he signed it
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We should be concerned about an old man who has completely lost his marbles but in Trump’s case it’s great entertainment. He is a deluded old fool.
 
bfcpete said:
Well, the Treasury Minister on Good Morning Britain today was completely shot down by Ed Balls and Suzannah Reid for apparently having no strategy on tariffs and protecting British businesses - other than having a nice chat with Mr Trump.
If we were really close to a trade deal with the US, we could have agreed a stay on any tariffs.
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There's no point in having dialogue with Trump.

He will do what is best for him, and nobody else, including his own countrymen. Like he cares if he causes a recession. Doesn't impact on him, that's all he cares about.
 
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