A few things

[1966_and_all_that]

I think what they're aiming for here won't be too far away from these bullet points that the FA are trying for. To stop England just being kick and rush athletes who don't have the brain and feet skills to win the big games:

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It's just frustrating as buggery at times when you can see a gap for a player to run beyond into, or a moment where the tempo needs to be upped, but it doesn't happen and the ball goes backwards because of a fear of losing it. And then it's a lottery of whether they lose it anyway as they're league one lads and sometimes on dodgy pitches. Or someone won't shoot when they could as that represents a lower possibility of scoring than a tap in. And it can be amplified when having to watch it play out via a screen where you get an overview. The enjoyment just comes from the result being a win mostly, certainly for me. Constantly on edge thinking are we in control here or not.

Blimey Poolfc, are you familiar with that cod-academia stuff? I tried reading one of them but it reads like a business paper to be discussed at a meeting. I remember, in meetings like that I used to fill pages in my jotter with doodles - boring or what! Football's supposed to be a game to be enjoyed.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

I mean I’m not really a ‘stat man’ I first brought up his basic goals and assists to say this isn’t that great. But to be fair TD spent a lot of time looking at some more detailed stuff. I was only able to have a look through the night with my daughter being ill, I’m not say all day looking at stats I spend too much time on here for that. I just disagreed with some things on the stats site.

it’s all getting a bit old now, I’m not sure how much more there is to add.

I don’t know Phil, on just the eye test alone he puts a guilt edge pass through, scores a goal or creates an assist at about 1 game in 3 where as the other two he can be a complete passenger and does very very little.

My original point was do you trigger that year option, not for me, but TD has made quiet a good argument that there’s actually not many players out there at this level consistently doing it on the left of a 4.

My argument would be, I could see Mitchell having a good impact for us playing out there if he had the same amount of game time as KK, it would be a different impact as he’s not as technically gifted but has more pace which I think we’d need in the 442.
Secondly, we have the financial muscle to now go and get one of the few players that performs well at that position. I just don’t think he’ll be here next year.

He’ll go and score a hat trick tonight now

Let's agree to disagree on all this and just hope for 3 points tonight

Utp

 

[poolfc]

Blimey Poolfc, are you familiar with that cod-academia stuff? I tried reading on of them but it reads like a business paper to be discussed at a meeting. I remember, in meetings like that I used to fill pages in my jotter with doodles - boring or what! Football's supposed to be a game to be enjoyed.

No it's just nonsense to me as well. The gist is the FA are obsessed with trying to find a way to eventually put an England team out on the pitch in a knockout tournament and win by being a robotic machine in full control of every second of a game, rather than heroic failure or complete collapse. And I'm convinced that's now starting to be cascaded down through coaches who get put through their courses and start getting jobs.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

Interesting thread, life is much more nuanced than "he's brilliant" v ""he's shxt"

Picking up on a couple of points, the single biggest weakness I see at the moment is rigidity. Players have to play to a coaching system, and this is both stifling creativity and making us easier to defend against. I would love to see one of our DMs, both of whom are very comfortable and physical on the ball, driving at the defence. I would love to see, when CJ goes off at lightning speed, Jerry drop to the right corner of the box, for CJ to short pass and let him do his stuff, rather than hopeful and non directed crosses. (CJ needs training for his crosses, well worth the time whatever his age, with his lightning speed). Without Madine, this would get Kaikai into the box to pick up scraps on the left. Kaikai is probably the most gifted player we have, we need to nurture him, not expect him to win games on his own in a system that doesn't support him. It was the anniversary of the passing of one of Blackpool's most gifted players yesterday, no one would have expected him to fit into a system and slagged his workrate off. (Though there was a bloke on the Kop, sheepskin jacket, who did)

My second is a more general point. I do not pretend to know as much about football as many of you, but I put my man management experience against the best. When you train and encourage staff, there comes a point where you have to trust them to follow their training and instinct. If you do not, they feel that you do not trust them, and their performance will suffer. I think we are at that point now, and I lay that at Critch's door. We actually have some blinking good players at this level, they need to be given permission to cut loose and move to the next level. Scrappy 1-0's are definitely better than early in the season, but with a solid defence, the other 6 players need to start mixing it up.

Maybe the rigidity to training modern coaches is also an issue?

 

[poolfc]

Interesting thread, life is much more nuanced than "he's brilliant" v ""he's shxt"

Picking up on a couple of points, the single biggest weakness I see at the moment is rigidity. Players have to play to a coaching system, and this is both stifling creativity and making us easier to defend against. I would love to see one of our DMs, both of whom are very comfortable and physical on the ball, driving at the defence. I would love to see, when CJ goes off at lightning speed, Jerry drop to the right corner of the box, for CJ to short pass and let him do his stuff, rather than hopeful and non directed crosses. (CJ needs training for his crosses, well worth the time whatever his age, with his lightning speed). Without Madine, this would get Kaikai into the box to pick up scraps on the left. Kaikai is probably the most gifted player we have, we need to nurture him, not expect him to win games on his own in a system that doesn't support him. It was the anniversary of the passing of one of Blackpool's most gifted players yesterday, no one would have expected him to fit into a system and slagged his workrate off. (Though there was a bloke on the Kop, sheepskin jacket, who did)

My second is a more general point. I do not pretend to know as much about football as many of you, but I put my man management experience against the best. When you train and encourage staff, there comes a point where you have to trust them to follow their training and instinct. If you do not, they feel that you do not trust them, and their performance will suffer. I think we are at that point now, and I lay that at Critch's door. We actually have some blinking good players at this level, they need to be given permission to cut loose and move to the next level. Scrappy 1-0's are definitely better than early in the season, but with a solid defence, the other 6 players need to start mixing it up.

Maybe the rigidity to training modern coaches is also an issue?

Good post. I'd say our players have done really well so far this season to try to adapt and start to become consistent. I'm guessing some of them have never played in a setup before where they've got to be a disciplined function. It also sounds like they stood their ground as a group after the Wimbledon away game too and were listened to, which is a big positive.

Hopefully they have a successful night tonight and can disrupt Burton, which looks like a real test.

 

[td53]

She is better thanks.

Well I’m not sure how accurate that site is then, because I checked a few other places to see where other players have actually played in games. Leahy, Simms and MacDonald have all played games in a left mid position ( as well as others) but don’t feature in the computation when you specify just the left midfield position. I say this because they have goals and assists from those positions which arnt brought up. So not sure on that one.

If you look at the players profiles you can see where it thinks they've played each game and it seems accurate just basing it on us. That's all I can judge it by really, that the data for us seems fairly spot on.

You can see heat maps and such again, they seem to make sense.

What's the other sources out of interest?

 

[Rektseasider]

If you look at the players profiles you can see where it thinks they've played each game and it seems accurate just basing it on us. That's all I can judge it by really, that the data for us seems fairly spot on.

You can see heat maps and such again, they seem to make sense.

What's the other sources out of interest?

Yeh I did have a play around with it and felt it was pretty accurate but wanted to see what other teams were doing in LG1.

You’re pretty much right not many teams in this league use a simple 442, so I did have to stretch it to wing backs who have played a handful of games at that position and people who usually play on the right switching in on the left for the odd game.

So you’re right it’s not a like for like but some of there stats (Leahy and Simms) suggest that in the handful of games they’ve played at left mid they’re at parity with KK’s production over the course of a much bigger sample size. It’s splitting hairs, your overall point that the standard there is pretty low and KK is towards the top end is correct.

But I think my point still stands, I think we’re only going to be in the market for 2 or 3 top end players with 2 or 3 back ups probably being brought in. I’d argue as we only have the two wingers/wide mids and the strikers as our attacking weapons in this formation we’d be wise to spend that money on someone maybe from the championship or top end of League One (Kirk as you point out) to get more production from them in the forward areas.

I used Soccer stats, FlashScore and FBref.com. I think WhoScored gave me the best user friendly and detailed stats out of them all but there were times when the others all disagreed with formations and players positions/ effect on the game given in WhoScored.

I think I’m correct in saying there’s no Opta or other such data gathering in League One so how these places generate their information is anyone’s guess, unless I just don’t know.

Jesus this has been done to death by me and I actually agree with you about most of this but it’s actually reaffirmed my position that, as we’re approaching the final balancing act with the squad this summer, we’d be wise to move on from KK and spend a good chunk of money, now that we can on someone who is likely to increase goals and assists from that position. As to get out of this league, let’s be ambitious and say automatically, you’ll need between 75-80 goals. If we have two main stay front men who are 15 goals a season is based off Yate’s form and Madines likely tally with out injury or ‘injury’ . We’d need our other two main attacking threats ( the wide mids/ wingers) to be getting close to 12-15 goals a season. That’s more than three times what KK’s on course for.
CJ may get somewhere close to that this season coupled with an injury that’s not bad going - but your point previously that the game plan often centres around him over KK is very valid, it’s a point that’s holding back the entire team and needs to be worked on by NC.

So in conclusion.........no ones even reading at this point so it doesn’t matter.

 

[td53]

Yeh I did have a play around with it and felt it was pretty accurate but wanted to see what other teams were doing in LG1.

You’re pretty much right not many teams in this league use a simple 442, so I did have to stretch it to wing backs who have played a handful of games at that position and people who usually play on the right switching in on the left for the odd game.

So you’re right it’s not a like for like but some of there stats (Leahy and Simms) suggest that in the handful of games they’ve played at left mid they’re at parity with KK’s production over the course of a much bigger sample size. It’s splitting hairs, your overall point that the standard there is pretty low and KK is towards the top end is correct.

But I think my point still stands, I think we’re only going to be in the market for 2 or 3 top end players with 2 or 3 back ups probably being brought in. I’d argue as we only have the two wingers/wide mids and the strikers as our attacking weapons in this formation we’d be wise to spend that money on someone maybe from the championship or top end of League One (Kirk as you point out) to get more production from them in the forward areas.

I used Soccer stats, FlashScore and FBref.com. I think WhoScored gave me the best user friendly and detailed stats out of them all but there were times when the others all disagreed with formations and players positions/ effect on the game given in WhoScored.

I think I’m correct in saying there’s no Opta or other such data gathering in League One so how these places generate their information is anyone’s guess, unless I just don’t know.

Jesus this has been done to death by me and I actually agree with you about most of this but it’s actually reaffirmed my position that, as we’re approaching the final balancing act with the squad this summer, we’d be wise to move on from KK and spend a good chunk of money, now that we can on someone who is likely to increase goals and assists from that position. As to get out of this league, let’s be ambitious and say automatically, you’ll need between 75-80 goals. If we have two main stay front men who are 15 goals a season is based off Yate’s form and Madines likely tally with out injury or ‘injury’ . We’d need our other two main attacking threats ( the wide mids/ wingers) to be getting close to 12-15 goals a season. That’s more than three times what KK’s on course for.
CJ may get somewhere close to that this season coupled with an injury that’s not bad going - but your point previously that the game plan often centres around him over KK is very valid, it’s a point that’s holding back the entire team and needs to be worked on by NC.

So in conclusion.........no ones even reading at this point so it doesn’t matter.

You reassure me that I'm not alone in the in depth point making about subjects that don't matter,even to myself...

I'd wondered where the stats come from. It's I think linked to betting in some way but how they generate things like the heat maps and numbers of key passes and so on I have no idea.

I'd guess there is a central database of some form or other and they all use the same source but possibly the way each site treats the info creates anomolies (i.e. how they class positions or categorise data - i.e. who scored will tell you winning an aerial battle is an 'attacking' stat, when palpably it's defensive as well. Who feeds the info in, I have no idea. The players have ratings as well, and whether that's a human rating or a performance score generated on their stats, I don't know.

It's usually available quite quickly after a game and it's historical as well, going back a few years in league 1 to pre covid before all games were televised.

It's a mystery to me!

 

[Rektseasider]

You reassure me that I'm not alone in the in depth point making about subjects that don't matter,even to myself...

I'd wondered where the stats come from. It's I think linked to betting in some way but how they generate things like the heat maps and numbers of key passes and so on I have no idea.

I'd guess there is a central database of some form or other and they all use the same source but possibly the way each site treats the info creates anomolies (i.e. how they class positions or categorise data - i.e. who scored will tell you winning an aerial battle is an 'attacking' stat, when palpably it's defensive as well. Who feeds the info in, I have no idea. The players have ratings as well, and whether that's a human rating or a performance score generated on their stats, I don't know.

It's usually available quite quickly after a game and it's historical as well, going back a few years in league 1 to pre covid before all games were televised.

It's a mystery to me!

I do try to stop myself going down many rabbit holes on this site, but often fail. Lockdown innit.

I think you're probably right there will be a central connection platform that gets rinsed through a few different sources. I remember on the Crewe away game commentary, you could hear someone calling out all the game details such as 'foul on Red 3 by White 2, forward pass by Red 6' etc etc so someones collecting it all.

Yeh I think i'll use WhoScored a bit more now, sees decent, ta.

 

[td53]

I do try to stop myself going down many rabbit holes on this site, but often fail. Lockdown innit.

I think you're probably right there will be a central connection platform that gets rinsed through a few different sources. I remember on the Crewe away game commentary, you could hear someone calling out all the game details such as 'foul on Red 3 by White 2, forward pass by Red 6' etc etc so someones collecting it all.

Yeh I think i'll use WhoScored a bit more now, sees decent, ta.

Oddly, at work today my mate was telling be about doing data gathering for Sheff United years ago. He said it was boring as anything and he just had to watch a section of the pitch and do like you said, just mark down when a player touched in and what type of touch it was.

I still don't understand how they produce heat maps so fast.

 

[Rektseasider]

Oddly, at work today my mate was telling be about doing data gathering for Sheff United years ago. He said it was boring as anything and he just had to watch a section of the pitch and do like you said, just mark down when a player touched in and what type of touch it was.

I still don't understand how they produce heat maps so fast.

Aye cannot imagine that’s much fun at all, I’m surprised even at our level that’s still the method of data collection. I’m sure all our boys wear those vests with the trackers in which collects things such as heat map data? But I suppose you still need a pair of human eyes to input dribbles, passes backwards and forwards etc etc.

 

[Wizaard]

I do try to stop myself going down many rabbit holes on this site, but often fail. Lockdown innit.

I think you're probably right there will be a central connection platform that gets rinsed through a few different sources. I remember on the Crewe away game commentary, you could hear someone calling out all the game details such as 'foul on Red 3 by White 2, forward pass by Red 6' etc etc so someones collecting it all.

Yeh I think i'll use WhoScored a bit more now, sees decent, ta.

Last time we went to Yeovil, on the train down from Waterloo, I sat next to the Opta stats man for the game who showed me through his laptop screens and how they collect data for every touch. I presume that data collection is then used by all other sites, as I can't imagine there will be a stats man there for every site.

 

[Wizaard]

Last time we went to Yeovil, on the train down from Waterloo, I sat next to the Opta stats man for the game who showed me through his laptop screens and how they collect data for every touch. I presume that data collection is then used by all other sites, as I can't imagine there will be a stats man there for every site.

Sat next to WHUSC on the way back, so technical detail was more cans based.

 

[Rektseasider]

Last time we went to Yeovil, on the train down from Waterloo, I sat next to the Opta stats man for the game who showed me through his laptop screens and how they collect data for every touch. I presume that data collection is then used by all other sites, as I can't imagine there will be a stats man there for every site.

Ah that’s interesting, so Opta do cover LG1 or was that back when we played them on the Championship?

I’m not sure why, but I thought I read somewhere that Opta didn’t cover the lower leagues, I might be confusing that with the Non Leagues.

 

[Wizaard]

Ah that’s interesting, so Opta do cover LG1 or was that back when we played them on the Championship?

I’m not sure why, but I thought I read somewhere that Opta didn’t cover the lower leagues, I might be confusing that with the Non Leagues.

It was a Saturday. Might even have been League 2.

 

[Plumbs]

Last time we went to Yeovil, on the train down from Waterloo...

I think you're skating on thin ice twice there (winky)

 

[td53]

@Rektseasider - never rated Sullay me

 

[Rektseasider]

@Rektseasider - never rated Sullay me

. He’s still got 45 minutes to come good...... to be honest he’s not the only one tonight.

 

[td53]

. He’s still got 45 minutes to come good...... to be honest he’s not the only one tonight.

Thats the spirit!

 

[BlackpoolsFinest]

I was just thinking, I'm glad @td53 & @Rektseasider spent so long breaking down Sullay's output earlier today after that 45 mins

 

[td53]

I was just thinking, I'm glad @td53 & @Rektseasider spent so long breaking down Sullay's output earlier today after that 45 mins

2nd half - different player cos he's not stuck to the wing.... ?

 

[Insider]

I think we all know that Sullay's best position isn't out wide, except Critch of course, but there was no excuse for his first half performance.
HOWEVER all credit to him for turnig it round second half.

 

[Rektseasider]

2nd half - different player cos he's not stuck to the wing.... ?

100%, Critch needs to use these games to see what works, and against who. We played that second half formation against MK without much luck. But against a more expansive team that worked almost perfectly second half and KK looked like a different player.

If he’s utilised like that week in week out next year you keep him on.

 

[BlackpoolsFinest]

2nd half - different player cos he's not stuck to the wing.... ?

Staggering how much of a difference him being let off his lead made in that second half.
I commented during the first half on the match thread about how Critch had seemingly hammered all creativity out of this team; the second half showed the potential of what we could achieve when allowing players like Embleton, Mitchell & Kaikai the freedom to do what they do best.

We need to find a balance that maintains how solid we are at the back whilst allowing our forward players to do what they do best.

 

[td53]

Staggering how much of a difference him being let off his lead made in that second half.
I commented during the first half on the match thread about how Critch had seemingly hammered all creativity out of this team; the second half showed the potential of what we could achieve when allowing players like Embleton, Mitchell & Kaikai the freedom to do what they do best.

We need to find a balance that maintains how solid we are at the back whilst allowing our forward players to do what they do best.

Yep.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

The second half just confirmed what ive been saying all season to be honest

We have creative players we just dont play them correctly

Mitchell, Kaikai, Virtue and Embleton all playing in and around Yates and it was a right handful

To be fair to Critchley he got the second half spot on, first half was shockingly bad he needs to realise that Simms isn't a direct replacement for Madine and you can't play a rigid 442 every week when Madine isn't playing

Biggest thing in the second half ( i haven't studied heat maps or data analysts reports or anything)

But Dougall sat just infront of the 2 centre halfs and got on the ball more meaning both full backs could push up which in turn meant Mitchell and Kaikai could come inside and get on the ball

We looked decent for about 30 mins

 

[td53]

Embleton

The second half just confirmed what ive been saying all season to be honest

We have creative players we just dont play them correctly

Mitchell, Kaikai, Virtue and Embleton all playing in and around Yates and it was a right handful

To be fair to Critchley he got the second half spot on, first half was shockingly bad he needs to realise that Simms isn't a direct replacement for Madine and you can't play a rigid 442 every week when Madine isn't playing

Biggest thing in the second half ( i haven't studied heat maps or data analysts reports or anything)

But Dougall sat just infront of the 2 centre halfs and got on the ball more meaning both full backs could push up which in turn meant Mitchell and Kaikai could come inside and get on the ball

We looked decent for about 30 mins

I think Embleton's movement was very good. He shuttled across and filled in, but in an attacking sense - He invited other players to move and his first thought wasn't ball retention, but chance creation. That let Dougall stop trying to do a job he was unsuited to and as you say, sit deep - it made it much harder to track Sullay and Demi as they were indeed coming inside but also it opened spaces for Virtue who was like the spare man and I thought had a really good spell.

We faded, but probably partly to do with not having much on the bench. Would honestly have been tempted to give Holmes 5 minutes as the energy was fading from about 78 mins and Jerry had put a right shift in.

 

[Adams Kebab]

The second half just confirmed what ive been saying all season to be honest

We have creative players we just dont play them correctly

Mitchell, Kaikai, Virtue and Embleton all playing in and around Yates and it was a right handful

To be fair to Critchley he got the second half spot on, first half was shockingly bad he needs to realise that Simms isn't a direct replacement for Madine and you can't play a rigid 442 every week when Madine isn't playing

Biggest thing in the second half ( i haven't studied heat maps or data analysts reports or anything)

But Dougall sat just infront of the 2 centre halfs and got on the ball more meaning both full backs could push up which in turn meant Mitchell and Kaikai could come inside and get on the ball

We looked decent for about 30 mins

Spot on mate.

This thread highlights exactly what went wrong 1st half.

There seems to have been an obsession to play two upfront particular from fans, but that doesn’t work if you pump long balls up to two forwards who don’t win headers and in particular Simms don’t make it stick very well. When this happens are midfield struggles.

When we changed at half time it worked so much better as the rigid 4-4-2 now becomes more fluid & Kaikai who Ian Chisnall hates just like the guy in his village (who’s missing an idiot tonight cos he’s sat next to Ben Burgess) actually has an effect as he’s freed up, it also gets Garbutt up the pitch as he drifts in.

2 upfront without Madine is dire. It can’t happen again.

Just to add this isn’t Simms fault. He’s not a target man.

 

[poolfc]

Not watching any more games this season I'm just going to have that moment on a loop from when Kaikai cut inside on a run and had that shot second half. Shackles off.

 

[Nuttalls Mint Toes]

There seems to have been an obsession to play two upfront particular from fans, but that doesn’t work if you pump long balls up to two forwards who don’t win headers and in particular Simms don’t make it stick very well. When this happens are midfield struggles.

Agree with that - sadly I don't think Simms is any better than what we already had (even Woodburn seemed to get more involved) and so if it means getting Virtue and Dougall forward (both of whom had a couple of decent efforts on goal) then so be it. Bet he goes with a 4-5-1 against Oxford on Saturday now.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

I said this last night but for me the book stops with the manager

We started off with a 433/4123 yet kept giving away daft goals as the midfield and defence weren't right

We sorted that by bringing in several new signings in key positions, we fixed the spine

He then changed to a 442 to get the best out of Madine and Yates

But by doing that it means our wide men are pretty redundant especially playing as inverted wide men

So 442 with Madine i get that it worked more times than not

442 without Madine is a waste of time as Simms isn't a Madine type player, Simms needs the ball down the channels

We have several creative players who are just getting stifled in this rigid 442

Even when CJ gets back to fitness i don't think it will improve us as thats not his role either

The first half last night really pissed me off as i knew he was going to do it, players just passing it side to side or whacking it upfront where it was coming straight back to us

Ballard was awful on the ball, i lost count on how many times he gave the ball away in the first half

The second half was great and showed that we can play football, Dougall played a big part in that as well getting on the ball and it gave Virtue more license to get involved

Its so frustrating this season as its there for the taking if we really have a go

Ps i still don't rate Critchley

 

[62years&counting]

Interesting thread, life is much more nuanced than "he's brilliant" v ""he's shxt"

Picking up on a couple of points, the single biggest weakness I see at the moment is rigidity. Players have to play to a coaching system, and this is both stifling creativity and making us easier to defend against. I would love to see one of our DMs, both of whom are very comfortable and physical on the ball, driving at the defence. I would love to see, when CJ goes off at lightning speed, Jerry drop to the right corner of the box, for CJ to short pass and let him do his stuff, rather than hopeful and non directed crosses. (CJ needs training for his crosses, well worth the time whatever his age, with his lightning speed). Without Madine, this would get Kaikai into the box to pick up scraps on the left. Kaikai is probably the most gifted player we have, we need to nurture him, not expect him to win games on his own in a system that doesn't support him. It was the anniversary of the passing of one of Blackpool's most gifted players yesterday, no one would have expected him to fit into a system and slagged his workrate off. (Though there was a bloke on the Kop, sheepskin jacket, who did)

My second is a more general point. I do not pretend to know as much about football as many of you, but I put my man management experience against the best. When you train and encourage staff, there comes a point where you have to trust them to follow their training and instinct. If you do not, they feel that you do not trust them, and their performance will suffer. I think we are at that point now, and I lay that at Critch's door. We actually have some blinking good players at this level, they need to be given permission to cut loose and move to the next level. Scrappy 1-0's are definitely better than early in the season, but with a solid defence, the other 6 players need to start mixing it up.

Maybe the rigidity to training modern coaches is also an issue?

Hence my recent thread...Is Critchley stifling creativity?

 

[seasiderjohn]

I can never understand why we play Hamilton on the right, considering he has the pace to go past every full back in the league easily. All it does playing on the right is force him to stop and come back on his left foot so the defender can catch up.

the reason for playing a left footer on the right is so they can cut inside and shoot but that isnt cjs forte he gets past and crosses so would defo be betterplaying on the left

 

[voyeur]

Embleton. He invited other players to move and his first thought wasn't ball retention, but chance creation. That let Dougall stop trying to do a job he was unsuited to and as you say, sit deep.

Dead right that.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

the reason for playing a left footer on the right is so they can cut inside and shoot but that isnt cjs forte he gets past and crosses so would defo be betterplaying on the left

I get the reason for it in a 433 but not in a 442

Messi has made a career out of cutting in from the right but you wouldn't play him as a right midfield player running up and down the line

(Well Argentina did in the Coppa America and fcuked up big time didn't get to the finals and manager got sacked)

 

[seasiderjohn]

I get the reason for it in a 433 but not in a 442

Messi has made a career out of cutting in from the right but you wouldn't play him as a right midfield player running up and down the line

(Well Argentina did in the Coppa America and fcuked up big time didn't get to the finals and manager got sacked)

true phil

 

[20togo]

Spot on mate.

This thread highlights exactly what went wrong 1st half.

There seems to have been an obsession to play two upfront particular from fans, but that doesn’t work if you pump long balls up to two forwards who don’t win headers and in particular Simms don’t make it stick very well. When this happens are midfield struggles.

When we changed at half time it worked so much better as the rigid 4-4-2 now becomes more fluid & Kaikai who Ian Chisnall hates just like the guy in his village (who’s missing an idiot tonight cos he’s sat next to Ben Burgess) actually has an effect as he’s freed up, it also gets Garbutt up the pitch as he drifts in.

2 upfront without Madine is dire. It can’t happen again.

Just to add this isn’t Simms fault. He’s not a target man.

re your last line, it's spot on and that also Yates isn't a target man either which is what Critchley tried to ask him to be earlier in the season before he brought Madine back in from the cold.

 

[Wizaard]

. He’s still got 45 minutes to come good...... to be honest he’s not the only one tonight.

And he did.

 

[20togo]

And he did.

Indeed he did but that's because he gave him a free role. Too many times his rigid formation means square pegs in round holes and our creativity suffers because of it.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

re your last line, it's spot on and that also Yates isn't a target man either which is what Critchley tried to ask him to be earlier in the season before he brought Madine back in from the cold.

Yep that bang on regarding Yates

At Swindon he scored most of his goals playing wide in a front 3 with Eion Doyle down the middle

We actually have the players now to play a more expansive game, but are stuck with this rigid system at the moment

For me with Dougall, Stewart, Virtue and even Robson we have options to play 2 holding midfield players every game so we could give the attacking players freedom to attack

 

[Rektseasider]

And he did.

I knew he would....honest guv.

The change of role was illuminating and something most of us have said would happen if he’s played inside. Interesting to see now if Critch reverts him back to left mid, if that were to happen I’d be bitterly disappointed.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

This is probably the best football thread I've read for a bit

Some great comments

Its certainly restored my faith in this site

 

[1966_and_all_that]

The first half last night really pissed me off as i knew he was going to do it, players just passing it side to side or whacking it upfront where it was coming straight back to us
Ballard was awful on the ball, i lost count on how many times he gave the ball away in the first half
The second half was great and showed that we can play football, Dougall played a big part in that as well getting on the ball and it gave Virtue more license to get involved
Its so frustrating this season as its there for the taking if we really have a go

Ps i still don't rate Critchley

He's learning too. It's important to remember that he would have come to Blackpool wanting to show what he could do, with his coaching background. It didn't work early doors - although, our players were also new to each other. Come Calderwood's arrival and the reinvention of Gary Madine we hit some success. However, Critchley also persevered with his shape tactics - which has pissed off a lot of us. So, bear in mind that he has his pride too. That he wants us to succeed with his ideas. Somehow, we need to blend the criticisms with the success and give Critchley some slack when he gives some to the players.

 

[Insider]

I said this last night but for me the book stops with the manager

We started off with a 433/4123 yet kept giving away daft goals as the midfield and defence weren't right

We sorted that by bringing in several new signings in key positions, we fixed the spine

He then changed to a 442 to get the best out of Madine and Yates

But by doing that it means our wide men are pretty redundant especially playing as inverted wide men

So 442 with Madine i get that it worked more times than not

442 without Madine is a waste of time as Simms isn't a Madine type player, Simms needs the ball down the channels

We have several creative players who are just getting stifled in this rigid 442

Even when CJ gets back to fitness i don't think it will improve us as thats not his role either

The first half last night really pissed me off as i knew he was going to do it, players just passing it side to side or whacking it upfront where it was coming straight back to us

Ballard was awful on the ball, i lost count on how many times he gave the ball away in the first half

The second half was great and showed that we can play football, Dougall played a big part in that as well getting on the ball and it gave Virtue more license to get involved

Its so frustrating this season as its there for the taking if we really have a go

Ps i still don't rate Critchley

Just catching up and replying as and when I see something worthy of comment.
I already mentioned ability on the ball elsewhere so I know what you are getting at.
Factually Ballard was the Pool player with the most completed passes (58).
His stats are
78 passes
58 successful passes
44 own half
14 opposition half
10 long balls
1 accurate long ball
90 touches (most touches by a Pool player)
4 duels won
3 duels lost
2 aerials won
3 aerials lost
6 recoveries
0 tackles attempted

I'm only quoting these, I didn't personally record them so can't confirm or deny their accuracy.
Interesting figures though

 

[Plumbs]

This is probably the best football thread I've read for a bit

Some great comments

Its certainly restored my faith in this site

Exactly. Basic football chatter without any unpleasantness or abuse and thoroughly engrossing catching up every day.

 

[gjr69]

Ballard looked better on the ball in the 2nd half as did all our defenders and defensive midfielders because they had some passing options.
Hard to tell when watching on TV but my guess is the lads at the back pass it between themselves then hit it long because there isn't a decent passing option.
Under the 4 4 2 we aren't a proper route one team or a good footballing team, put Madine in their and it just about works but it isn't good.
I'm hoping Critchley has now realised that we have more strength in central midfield and defence which will allow us to play to the strengths of our creative and attacking players. A few of us realised about 8 games ago but maybe the gaffer has finally caught up!

 

[Insider]

Yep that bang on regarding Yates

At Swindon he scored most of his goals playing wide in a front 3 with Eion Doyle down the middle

We actually have the players now to play a more expansive game, but are stuck with this rigid system at the moment

For me with Dougall, Stewart, Virtue and even Robson we have options to play 2 holding midfield players every game so we could give the attacking players freedom to attack

It's time to ditch 2 holding mid-fielders primarily because the 4 in front of them don't offer enough goals, Yates excepted. Let the defence defend.
On the subject of Yates I beg to differ. I don't think Critch sees his role as a "target man". He might play the furthest forward but that doesn't mean he's a "target man". Don't forget Liverpool don't have a target man and that was initially how Critch set us up to play until Madine started playing.

 

[gjr69]

It's time to ditch 2 holding mid-fielders primarily because the 4 in front of them don't offer enough goals, Yates excepted. Let the defence defend.
On the subject of Yates I beg to differ. I don't think Critch sees his role as a "target man". He might play the furthest forward but that doesn't mean he's a "target man". Don't forget Liverpool don't have a target man and that was initially how Critch set us up to play until Madine started playing.

He needs to go back to something like how he originally set us up. Play Gabriel and Garbutt, put Kaikai in front of Stewart and Dougall, play any combination of Yates, Simms and Hamilton in the front 3, that team will score goals.
Alternative is to play 4 2 3 1 with Mitchell, Kaikai and Embleton in the three with Yates ahead of them.
We have loads of options but please no more 4 4 2 without Madine, I hope I'm wrong but his sticking with that set up might have cost us a place in the top 6.

 

[Phil_bfc deux]

He needs to go back to something like how he originally set us up. Play Gabriel and Garbutt, put Kaikai in front of Stewart and Dougall, play any combination of Yates, Simms and Hamilton in the front 3, that team will score goals.
Alternative is to play 4 2 3 1 with Mitchell, Kaikai and Embleton in the three with Yates ahead of them.
We have loads of options but please no more 4 4 2 without Madine, I hope I'm wrong but his sticking with that set up might have cost us a place in the top 6.

Agreed mate

2 holding mids with a creative 3 behind Yates sounds good to me

 

[20togo]

It's time to ditch 2 holding mid-fielders primarily because the 4 in front of them don't offer enough goals, Yates excepted. Let the defence defend.
On the subject of Yates I beg to differ. I don't think Critch sees his role as a "target man". He might play the furthest forward but that doesn't mean he's a "target man". Don't forget Liverpool don't have a target man and that was initially how Critch set us up to play until Madine started playing.

Depends how you define target man.For me Critchley asked him to play that role as being the lone man up front down the middle. He wanted him to be that outlet by being hit by long balls in the air which he was pretty much always gonna lose most of the aerial duels or by being available with his back to goal for the balls to be hit into his feet be that by dropping off his marker a little. I don't recall too much that he was the player asked to run the channels which is more his strength. A target man doesn't have to be a big six foot odd type of player, he can be a player like Firmino who you look for as an outlet and in his case with Salah and Mane running off him.But we aren't Liverpool and Critchley realised that he didn't the players to do that. We have L1 players who just don't have the ability or the movement.