A few things

Phil_bfc deux

Well-known member
Don't like 2 inverted wide men in a 442 as they are crossing on their week foot when we have bodies in the box

Makes no sense

Turton the scapegoat was man of the match šŸ‘

Should have done more to keep Gnanduillet especially as we play so much long ball

Should have won that we were the better team

More points dropped at home

Play offs still on the cards but we have to find a system that creates more chances and gets our creative players higher up the pitch

Utp ..
 
Hard to argue with any of that Phil. Square pegs in round holes strikes again.

Not sure Turton has had that much stick.

What I find with Ollie is that with a run of starts his confidence improves. He was bombing up and down that right side today.

When he barely gets a game he seems to lack the confidence to do this and plays the safety game playing the simple ball backwards or square.

You could see his confidence was growing last week at MK as he got forward a lot more.

Excellent performance from the lad today.
 
All I could think of watching that is if we're going to play like passing robots who do exactly the same things in the exact same order in every game, then we're going to need some better robots.
Yep good post that

We may as well play 4 full backs
 
No problem him playing on the right. Or Kaikai on the left. The problem for me is they're not given the freedoms to use that as a tactic and to cut inside and run into the box and get shots in, where anything could happen, to take risks. They've got to stay within a rigid passing structure. Get the ball. Stop. Turn. Pass back. Go sideways. Back again. Sideways. Back again. Forward. Opposition has regrouped and five minutes has gone by and when that chance eventually comes there's so much mental pressure built up that they miss.
 
I don't think inverting the wingers is a problem. Its what we have the middle.
When Gabriel came in it was on the back of some good performances by Turton. There's not alot to choose between them and I suspect Gabriel will return soon.
TBH none of our defenders pass the ball very well though, even Garbutt.
I agree absolutely about Gnanduillet so much so that I posted it about half an hour before you did (or have you been copying again šŸ˜‰ ).
Yes we should have won and the play offs are still within reach.
Tuesday will be a tough game.
 
No problem him playing on the right. Or Kaikai on the left. The problem for me is they're not given the freedoms to use that as a tactic and to cut inside and run into the box and get shots in, where anything could happen, to take risks. They've got to stay within a rigid passing structure. Get the ball. Stop. Turn. Pass back. Go sideways. Back again. Sideways. Back again. Forward. Opposition has regrouped and five minutes has gone by and when that chance eventually comes there's so much mental pressure built up that they miss.
That's what you get from our esteemed, highly qualified coach šŸ˜‚
 
No problem him playing on the right. Or Kaikai on the left. The problem for me is they're not given the freedoms to use that as a tactic and to cut inside and run into the box and get shots in, where anything could happen, to take risks. They've got to stay within a rigid passing structure. Get the ball. Stop. Turn. Pass back. Go sideways. Back again. Sideways. Back again. Forward. Opposition has regrouped and five minutes has gone by and when that chance eventually comes there's so much mental pressure built up that they miss.
Yep the starting position is too deep in a 4

I know we were all critical of the 433/4123 hybrid at the start of the season

But we actually have the centre mids now to play that system

We look like a Neil Warnock team or i dare say a Simon Grayson or Paul Ince team
 
No problem him playing on the right. Or Kaikai on the left. The problem for me is they're not given the freedoms to use that as a tactic and to cut inside and run into the box and get shots in, where anything could happen, to take risks. They've got to stay within a rigid passing structure. Get the ball. Stop. Turn. Pass back. Go sideways. Back again. Sideways. Back again. Forward. Opposition has regrouped and five minutes has gone by and when that chance eventually comes there's so much mental pressure built up that they miss.
That's not entirely true of CJ.
Sullay, in my opinion, isn't a winger and putting him in that position does him no favours.
He remains the player that continues to frustrate me more than any other.
A right footed winger with an eye for goal was what I asked Father Christmas for.
 
You don't really see Hamilton cutting inside and shooting in the way you'd see in the past with Tom Ince though. He's told to take the full back on and cross to the penalty spot for someone to run on to as they see that as giving them a higher chance of scoring than taking a risk. But usually he has to go with his right foot to make it work.
 
That's not entirely true of CJ.
Sullay, in my opinion, isn't a winger and putting him in that position does him no favours.
He remains the player that continues to frustrate me more than any other.
A right footed winger with an eye for goal was what I asked Father Christmas for.
That's not entirely true of CJ.
Sullay, in my opinion, isn't a winger and putting him in that position does him no favours.
He remains the player that continues to frustrate me more than any other.
A right footed winger with an eye for goal was what I asked Father Christmas for.
You say that but he made our goal on Tuesday and created our best chance today

I really don't get the criticism Kaikai gets
 
We lack a really creative midfielder, although I thought Virtue did really well when he came on. I am not sure Dougall and Stewart work together although we needed them against Wimbledon. I also think Simms has bags of potential but he would be better as a sub for the last 20 minutes or paired with Madine to give Yates a breather. We miss Madine, we have no other attacking options so we can't change it. Not sure about Gnando, I thought Vassel looked lively for them and he was decent when we had him. We certainly need to invest in this area in the summer especially if Madine doesn't stay. We will need 3 strikers to fight for places with Yates.

I really enjoyed the game today, thought we were by far the better team and should have won it. We are chipping away but we need a comfortable home victory soon. They have some big recruitment decisions to make when the season's finished, in and out. We have some really good players but not enough variety. I thought Turton was superb today as was Husband. I would prefer Husband at left back and he was building up a really good understanding going forward with Kaikai in front of him and he could depend on Kaikai to cover him. I thought Kaikai was excellent today, going forward but also defending, he gets a lot of stick but he really puts a shift in and I think he is well worth his place in the team. CJ looked like the start of the season, good and speedy but not match fit, crosses poor, but he steadily improved before his injury so I am sure he will just get better.

Apart from the Wimbledon game, which was shit, I think we have looked decent but toothless. We are super solid at the back, so fix the other end and we will be unstoppable.
 
Gnanders scoring and us missing someone to mix it up and get a head on the ball in the box wasnā€™t lost on a few of us watching today.
Thought we looked solid at the back and never looked like conceding barring Vassell having a half-chance. Stewart going off didnā€™t help but as others have said, weā€™ve no real different options off the bench when weā€™re looking for a goal. Whilst looking solid, we didnā€™t take the risks to win the game.
Fingers crossed CJ gets back up to full speed and Madine is back soon to stay fit for last 15 games. Weā€™re still on course for the play-offs, 26 points from the last 45 should be enough and doable.
 
You say that but he made our goal on Tuesday and created our best chance today

I really don't get the criticism Kaikai gets
I'm not having a go at Kaikai, its probably more a criticism of Critchley. Sullay is one of the square pegs in a round hole.
He works a lot harder than he used to but he doesn't seem to play with the same confidence he did when he first came. Every match I just desperately want him to prove me wrong but he doesn't.
Bottom line though I would have played Ward ahead of him today and I don't think he's a winger either.
 
If you count him as a forward Sullay was far and away our best today. In my view he's improving all the time. He's no goalscorer but he creates good chances for others.
Yes for what they give him to do he tries to do it, before he gets subbed. Seeing as they do everything off data now they'll see that he's got his name involved in 37% of our league points so far. So if they want better output then they have to sign better or get more out of others they've already invested in, simply.
 
That's not entirely true of CJ.
Sullay, in my opinion, isn't a winger and putting him in that position does him no favours.
He remains the player that continues to frustrate me more than any other.
A right footed winger with an eye for goal was what I asked Father Christmas for.
Adding to that he plays week in week out whatever his performance level is. Ward has been a winger before he came to us and I think heā€™s done quite well playing there the last few games
 
Our two wide men shouldnā€™t be wide men in a midfield 4. Get them higher up the pitch.

We can cry out for two upfront but Simms shouldnā€™t be one of the two, just a shame weā€™ve nobody else. Not criticising him either, itā€™s just grim when our strikers arenā€™t effective and we have nobody else to bring on.

Weā€™re a few players short yet, missing a couple as well to be fair.
 
You shouldnā€™t need wingers playing on their natural sides (right footer on the right etc) if the fullbacks push far enough up and overlap. They are the crossers. It works on the left, because at least Garbutt can get up there and put a good delivery in. And it allows Kaikai to drift inside and help the middle, because we have no number 10 so with the ball down the left Garbutt becomes the winger, Kaikai drifts inside behind the two strikers and you know you have two deeper centre mids to help out the back if needed. Iā€™d like to see some more of that on the right too but CJ isnā€™t naturally running in the half space like Kaikai does and Turton isnā€™t as aggressive overlapping.
 
We bossed possession, had far more shots than them so apart from scoring a goal (hit the post) I reckon that was a good performance.
I still believe a lot of people over analyse games and no one has mentioned the 17 fouls they conceded which certainly interrupted our momentum (maybe a game plan by SG)
Tuesday is a massive test because Burton are on a great run and I am not having that they purposely had games postponed.
 
Don't like 2 inverted wide men in a 442 as they are crossing on their week foot when we have bodies in the box

Makes no sense

Turton the scapegoat was man of the match šŸ‘

Should have done more to keep Gnanduillet especially as we play so much long ball

Should have won that we were the better team

More points dropped at home

Play offs still on the cards but we have to find a system that creates more chances and gets our creative players higher up the pitch

Utp ..
Gnando was going. Nothing the board or anyone else could have stopped that. He is a grass is always greener sort of bloke. He d left once before.

This board needs to get over Gnando going and move on.

Goal machine is better anyway
 
Don't like 2 inverted wide men in a 442 as they are crossing on their week foot when we have bodies in the box

Makes no sense

Turton the scapegoat was man of the match šŸ‘

Should have done more to keep Gnanduillet especially as we play so much long ball

Should have won that we were the better team

More points dropped at home

Play offs still on the cards but we have to find a system that creates more chances and gets our creative players higher up the pitch

Utp ..
A great OP and its always nice to read stuff from people who know what they're talking about with football,as opposed to some of the self indulgent nonsense we've had to endure on this site over the years.

Getting creative players into a more effective role has been a perennial problem for many clubs, and I seem to recall similar debates here when Richie Wellens was at the Seaside.

Good work OP and a great thread
 
Gnando was going. Nothing the board or anyone else could have stopped that. He is a grass is always greener sort of bloke. He d left once before.

This board needs to get over Gnando going and move on.

Goal machine is better anyway
I think there'll be a moving on when you can see that he's been replaced in terms of net effect. It would have only made us stronger in our intentions to retain both our top scorer (either in or coming into his prime) AND add Yates (+ others) to the squad this season. But can accept that was never going to happen, even if AG wasn't a crazy nomad, obviously.

Madine is an intelligent player but he's a 5-10 a season man max, barring having an indian summer. And I don't think it was intended for him to have got this far in this squad this season, where it now feels like we rely on him. It was all about the floaty number 10 types at the start. Who also don't score goals. And it still shows when looking at the bench. Simms is a bit of a plaster over that, and he's having to try to be both Madine AND Yates at the moment. He's done OK (really well at Charlton) but you can tell he's not been used as a big lad up top before in senior football.
 
I think there'll be a moving on when you can see that he's been replaced in terms of net effect. It would have only made us stronger in our intentions to retain both our top scorer (either in or coming into his prime) AND add Yates (+ others) to the squad this season. But can accept that was never going to happen, even if AG wasn't a crazy nomad, obviously.

Madine is an intelligent player but he's a 5-10 a season man max, barring having an indian summer. And I don't think it was intended for him to have got this far in this squad this season, where it now feels like we rely on him. It was all about the floaty number 10 types at the start. Who also don't score goals. And it still shows when looking at the bench. Simms is a bit of a plaster over that, and he's having to try to be both Madine AND Yates at the moment. He's done OK (really well at Charlton) but you can tell he's not been used as a big lad up top before in senior football.
Fair post pool fc I can't argue with much of that
 
1) I spent the whole game being jealous they had Vassell. He causes problems, turns random punts up the pitch into pressure. He was like Yates and Simms in one body.

2) The inverting was ok when CJ was on (cos CJ actually wants to play that role) but when demi came on should have swapped him as he's hopeless on the right.

I'm not having a go at Kaikai, its probably more a criticism of Critchley. Sullay is one of the square pegs in a round hole.
He works a lot harder than he used to but he doesn't seem to play with the same confidence he did when he first came. Every match I just desperately want him to prove me wrong but he doesn't.
Bottom line though I would have played Ward ahead of him today and I don't think he's a winger either.

I think Sullay has been a project of Critch's and it's good and bad. He's learned to trot about doing shadowing and working up and down the line but he's lost the risk taking that he had.

Critchley doesn't ever tell anyone to roam about. When do you see us employ that ever?
We're very rigid in what we do and it clearly works defensively but there's never much swapping of positions or rotating of the forwards.

I picked this in one of the first pre season games - people were saying "why's Sullay so quiet?" and it was clear to me that he'd been given an imaginary box on the pitch and told to do his work within it. That's been followed up all year.

Sullay is playing within himself, but he's playing under instruction. It's obvious. If I could be bothered I'd go and find the thread from that game - I said something like "he's clearly been told to simplify his game and work up and down"

Cos he obviously had and has continued to be told so. And, he's doing what he's told. The Sullay we saw at points last year wasn't playing under instruction. He was being told to go and 'express yourself'

Larry often picks 8/9 cloggers and a wizard or 2 Critch wants 11 all working to the plan, filling in, tracking back, keeping tight lines and all that. There's no room for individual wizardry as it disrupts the system.

Can you think of one really ** great individual piece of play that isn't Jerry or CJ versus the last man this year? I'm struggling to think of a really audacious risk anyone has taken, other than against the last man.

The converse is, can you think of us gifting the ball with a risk like that and conceding a really stupid goal? There's probably one or two but not many.

It's all about solidity, it's all about not conceding.

It's mental when you think of what we were doing in August. We're a totally different beast.
 
I'm not really bothered about the table until we have played our games in hand

Once we have 10 games left we can have a proper look to see if we can get to the playoffs or if our poor start has cost us

What i don't get is all this nonsense about having a 'real go' next season

No guarantee on anything in football we need to be having a 'real go' NOW

Every game is a big one and at the moment we just aren't doing enough to be winning games comfortably
 
I'm not really bothered about the table until we have played our games in hand

Once we have 10 games left we can have a proper look to see if we can get to the playoffs or if our poor start has cost us

What i don't get is all this nonsense about having a 'real go' next season

No guarantee on anything in football we need to be having a 'real go' NOW

Every game is a big one and at the moment we just aren't doing enough to be winning games comfortably
You're right again. We need to have a go now. It's within our grasp and to that end Critch needs to stop pussy footing about with Madine and get him on the bench or give him the first 45 mins, starting Tuesday.
 
You're right again. We need to have a go now. It's within our grasp and to that end Critch needs to stop pussy footing about with Madine and get him on the bench or give him the first 45 mins, starting Tuesday.
What is actually up with Madine? First I saw was about managing his situation carefully, now heā€™s not been seen for months?
 
What is actually up with Madine? First I saw was about managing his situation carefully, now heā€™s not been seen for months?
Yeah its a strange one pal

Not really heard much on this 'injury'

We certainly look better when he plays but i still get the feeling that Critchley doesn't really rate him
 
Yeah its a strange one pal

Not really heard much on this 'injury'

We certainly look better when he plays but i still get the feeling that Critchley doesn't really rate him
We donā€™t get much info on any of the injuries weā€™ve had, seems to be deliberate? Not sure why? CJ Hamiltonā€™s injury was similar, described as ā€œlong termā€, but that could be any number?

Just say how long itā€™s going to be? I get situations can change but it stops people saying ā€œstart Madine nowā€ or ā€œdrop Simms for Madineā€ if he canā€™t actually play for weeks or months?
 
Yes for what they give him to do he tries to do it, before he gets subbed. Seeing as they do everything off data now they'll see that he's got his name involved in 37% of our league points so far. So if they want better output then they have to sign better or get more out of others they've already invested in, simply.
37% wow is that right

Thats a great stat for the Kaikai haters
 
Good OP overall & agree about Turton. I like the way he's two footed and can play a decent pass to feet inside off his left.
Such a shame about Madine. Looked much fitter & hungry before the injury. Throughout all the hurly burly yesterday he has the class to buy himself a couple of seconds and pick a pass.
Even when he's ready for action will probably take a few games to get match fit again.
Nothing stuck with Simms yesterday.
 
Good OP overall & agree about Turton. I like the way he's two footed and can play a decent pass to feet inside off his left.
Such a shame about Madine. Looked much fitter & hungry before the injury. Throughout all the hurly burly yesterday he has the class to buy himself a couple of seconds and pick a pass.
Even when he's ready for action will probably take a few games to get match fit again.
Nothing stuck with Simms yesterday.
Yeah different sort of players

Even though Simms is a big lad he looks like he needs balls down the channels instead of lumped up

Madine on the other had can fight for scaps and hold the ball up

We need Madine given how direct we play these days
 
I don't think people hate Kaikai, they are just frustrated at only seeing glimpses of the talent he possesses. Maybe he should be played more centrally, Madine has probably the best ball control of any forward at this level and can hold the ball up to link with the midfield, I can't understand why more balls aren't played to his chest where defenders have to foul to get the ball.
 
I'm not really bothered about the table until we have played our games in hand

Once we have 10 games left we can have a proper look to see if we can get to the playoffs or if our poor start has cost us

What i don't get is all this nonsense about having a 'real go' next season

No guarantee on anything in football we need to be having a 'real go' NOW

Every game is a big one and at the moment we just aren't doing enough to be winning games comfortably
I think the "real go" comes from acknowledging that this team isn't the finished article in terms of being capable of mounting a proper consistent challenge, as we have seen from dropping points in games we should have won. We're still lacking that cutting edge up front, and I can't see us solving the problem any time soon.
I doubt anyone thinks we aren't trying to go up this season, but realise next year is more realistic given the poor start we had and the fact that we are still towards the start of a learning curve and also a long term plan.

There's a lot to look forward to, but still a long way to go with regards to how much we can and need to improve.
 
Kaikai and Hamilton are not suited to playing wide in a 4 4 2. Kaikai should be playing behind a striker or possibly wide in a 4 3 3. Hamilton should be playing right hand side of a 4 3 3. Its square pegs in round holes which we can sort of make work with Madine but it isn't right without him.
I don't know why Critchley hasn't gone back to what he was doing pre and early season because we have the central midfield players that were lacking then.
Unless we go back to 4 3 3 or 4 2 3 1 we won't be a particularly effective team going forward with the players we have available.
 
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