All this Kenny criticism

Shiggy said:
Bit over the top imo.

Was poor on tuesday as was everyone else.

But I still think he's valuable to this team and has more than held his own at this level over the course of the season.
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He's had two very poor games and that's what people have said Nowt wrong with that. On the whole I reckon most fans like him and would pick him in their starting eleven. It's been a long season for him and the work he has to do in our midfield and added to his international duties he'll benefit from a good rest come the end of the season.
 
Some of the criticism may have been over the top but I do think he has had quite a poor season and he would be 1 of a a few I'd be looking to upgrade. As of now I'd still be picking him in our midfield but I'd be wanting someone else to replace him if we are to look up for play offs next season. Maybe that's unfair on him cos Wintle aside he hasn't had a steady partner but it is what it is.
 
It's not about replacing Kenny, for me, it's about getting players around him that do the other stuff, as td53 says. Stewart is good but only 10 games a season. Connolly is a workhorse but just destroys. Kenny has kept us going with insufficient support this season and all this criticism is unacceptable in my opinion.

Don't replace him, add to him. We've had a lot more than our moneys worth out of him. I honestly think he paces himself through games, because he okays so often and we have been so reliant on him.

We lose a couple of games and the knives are back out of the kitchen draw. Every time.
 
I'd be knackered too for a couple of weeks if I had jetted off to Australia and back. In the fantasy world of football fans, every player is 100% mentally and physically fit all the time so should perform well but the reality is often somewhat different behind the scenes.
 
voyeur said:
It's not about replacing Kenny, for me, it's about getting players around him that do the other stuff, as td53 says. Stewart is good but only 10 games a season. Connolly is a workhorse but just destroys. Kenny has kept us going with insufficient support this season and all this criticism is unacceptable in my opinion.

Don't replace him, add to him. We've had a lot more than our moneys worth out of him. I honestly think he paces himself through games, because he okays so often and we have been so reliant on him.

We lose a couple of games and the knives are back out of the kitchen draw. Every time.
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It's what happens Voy. You don't like Madine and don't think he's good enough. I don't rate Hamilton and he's not good enough. And we air those views on here. We defend the players we like, see all my posts about Bowler, and can't help ourselves when criticising players we don't rate. It's just the nature of being a football fan.
 
20togo said:
It's what happens Voy. You don't like Madine and don't think he's good enough. I don't rate Hamilton and he's not good enough. And we air those views on here. We defend the players we like, see all my posts about Bowler, and can't help ourselves when criticising players we don't rate. It's just the nature of being a football fan.
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Well actually Madine has improved and I've said so. I disagree about Kenny and have simply said so, it's my opinion. The knives do come out after defeats, there is an inconsistency.
 
voyeur said:
Well actually Madine has improved and I've said so. I disagree about Kenny and have simply said so, it's my opinion. The knives do come out after defeats, there is an inconsistency.
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Wasn't having a go Voy, just pointing out the nature of being a football fan.
 
voyeur said:
It's something I've been aware of for years! But not everyone reacts the same. I think we've been fortunate to have Kenny the last two seasons.
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so do I. He's been good for us. Others think the Championship or certainly the top end of it, is a step too far. The decision is Critchleys to make if and when that tine comes.
 
Dougall will look better when he's not the best player. At moment, he's basically the midfield and that's not a mantle he's good enough to carry.

Ultimately, Adam made Vaughan and vice versa. Wellens made Southern and vice versa. Kenny has, as I think 20s pointed out already, not had the luxury of any kind of quality partnering him consistently.

Wintle was good, but he's gone and he wasn't exactly what I would deem 'creative' - Stewart is really good, but he's a crock and him and Kenny often find themselves in the same place on the pitch.
 
td53 said:
The whole team needs that creative midfielder. We've got a lot of players that are perfectly acceptable players but are getting slated individually because in combination they're lacking the guile to pressure other teams.
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We should have never let Sullay Kaikai go. Not a midfielder as such but a creative attacking player. He'd be better than CJ down the left that's for sure.
 
I don't think he has particularly shone this season...... Although I don't think playing him after travelling round the world does him any favours at all when there is cover available

I do think he is a debatable choice at the moment though
 
cleveleysbfc said:
I don't think he has particularly shone this season...... Although I don't think playing him after travelling round the world does him any favours at all when there is cover available

I do think he is a debatable choice at the moment though
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There isn't a choice. It's him or James out of position (no!) Connelly (not a bad choice perhaps, though not creative either,) Robson (who lost his place midtable in League one) or Virtue (who hasn't played for a year and will need easing in)

We just don't have the players. We need to get Carey fit and add at very least one more with his sort of ability.
 
Macseasider said:
We should have never let Sullay Kaikai go. Not a midfielder as such but a creative attacking player. He'd be better than CJ down the left that's for sure.
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He's definitely the type of player we need and I hope we can find some-one similar to him or that Carey can step up. But don't think Kaikai was the answer as he was just so inconsistent and that's why he was released. There again the evidence of this and last season is that generally that's not the way Critchley wants to play hence limited opportunity for Carey earlier in the season..
 
20togo said:
He's had two very poor games and that's what people have said Nowt wrong with that. On the whole I reckon most fans like him and would pick him in their starting eleven. It's been a long season for him and the work he has to do in our midfield and added to his international duties he'll benefit from a good rest come the end of the season.
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Just this morning I've seen comments saying he's a "waste of space", "a top half league one player and nothing more", and a "liability".

Absolutely no problem with criticising his performances the last two games.

But comments like that are highly reactionary and disrespectful to a player who has done so much for us in a short space of time and has been a constant figure in what has been a successful season.
 
cleveleysbfc said:
I don't think he has particularly shone this season...... Although I don't think playing him after travelling round the world does him any favours at all when there is cover available

I do think he is a debatable choice at the moment though
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He is a debatable choice at the moment but if we leave him out, with the current injuries, who replaces him?
 
Macseasider said:
We should have never let Sullay Kaikai go. Not a midfielder as such but a creative attacking player. He'd be better than CJ down the left that's for sure.
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Kaikai was one of my favourite players and I was sad to see him go, but 2 goals so far this season for Wycombe suggests it was maybe the right decision.
 
20togo said:
He's definitely the type of player we need and I hope we can find some-one similar to him or that Carey can step up. But don't think Kaikai was the answer as he was just so inconsistent and that's why he was released. There again the evidence of this and last season is that generally that's not the way Critchley wants to play hence limited opportunity for Carey earlier in the season..
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I agree there. Kaikai was largely misused. Or to put in less negative terms, the way he was used didn't really suit him but suited the team and Keshi has made that role his own and offers more than the Sull in that position.

What Carey showed briefly was that he could feasibly play centre mid (the game against Hudds where he broke his foot, was probably our best football of the season until Gabriel went mad and Carey went off) - Sullay couldn't do that - he needed to play as a 10 and Critch is only ever going to do that occasionally at most.
 
Shiggy said:
Kaikai was one of my favourite players and I was sad to see him go, but 2 goals so far this season for Wycombe suggests it was maybe the right decision.
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Yeah, but have you seen his assist rate... 👀
 
Dougall has basically been our midfield this season. Wintle did well when we had him and Connolly has done a job there but IMO we have missed Stewart & Ward alongside Kenny. He has been expected to be both a defensive and creative midfielder in pretty much every game he has played.

I’ll forgive a couple of ordinary performances.
 
20togo said:
It's what happens Voy. You don't like Madine and don't think he's good enough. I don't rate Hamilton and he's not good enough. And we air those views on here. We defend the players we like, see all my posts about Bowler, and can't help ourselves when criticising players we don't rate. It's just the nature of being a football fan.
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So Voy thinks Madine isn't good enough, while Hamilton isn't good enough😉

See the suble inference?
 
Pauls_Boutique said:
Dougall has basically been our midfield this season. Wintle did well when we had him and Connolly has done a job there but IMO we have missed Stewart & Ward alongside Kenny. He has been expected to be both a defensive and creative midfielder in pretty much every game he has played.

I’ll forgive a couple of ordinary performances.
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a couple of ordinary performances, he’s been dog shit BUT i still believe he’s good enough and certainly wouldn’t be looking to offload. Needs a rest and end of season can’t come too soon for him.
 
Kenny has been poor last 2 games, and that's a fact, but in his defence he has once again been half way round the world.
The team has been poor in the last 2 games and that's not Kenny's fault and he's just one of a number of contributors to a poor team performance.
The manager has been poor the last 2 games and that might have bearing on Kenny's role in the way he's being asked to play. (I remember Kenny's comments after the play off final about not been encouraged to go up for corners. Fortunately late in May 2021 Kenny Dougall he scored two not one). Maybe he needs the freedom to do that again.
I see some similarities in Critch as a Manager with Gareth Southgate. Some may see that as a compliment, others may not. I think with both of them it's always safety first??
Under Critch we've never really thrown the shackles off. (We've never even left a player on the half way for an opposition corner, god forbid leaving 2 up like Coventry did).
So if ever there was a time to do this it's now.
Apart from anything else playing attacking, adventurous, uninhibited football from now until the end of the season is far more likely to get fans putting their hands in their pockets for season tickets than 7 drab games will.
Just a few random thoughts. 😄
 
Insider said:
Kenny has been poor last 2 games, and that's a fact, but in his defence he has once again been half way round the world.
The team has been poor in the last 2 games and that's not Kenny's fault and he's just one of a number of contributors to a poor team performance.
The manager has been poor the last 2 games and that might have bearing on Kenny's role in the way he's being asked to play. (I remember Kenny's comments after the play off final about not been encouraged to go up for corners. Fortunately late in May 2021 Kenny Dougall he scored two not one). Maybe he needs the freedom to do that again.
I see some similarities in Critch as a Manager with Gareth Southgate. Some may see that as a compliment, others may not. I think with both of them it's always safety first??
Under Critch we've never really thrown the shackles off. (We've never even left a player on the half way for an opposition corner, god forbid leaving 2 up like Coventry did).
So if ever there was a time to do this it's now.
Apart from anything else playing attacking, adventurous, uninhibited football from now until the end of the season is far more likely to get fans putting their hands in their pockets for season tickets than 7 drab games will.
Just a few random thoughts. 😄
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Great post. I'll just add that "attacking, adventurous uninhibited football" must include Bowler is stating the obvious.
 
20togo said:
Great post. I'll just add that "attacking, adventurous uninhibited football" must include Bowler is stating the obvious.
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I think it's certainly the case that now 2 years into Critchley's tenure a more expansive creative game plan hasn't been the priority.

That maybe due to his Southgate tendencies or what he has had at his disposal or within his budget to recruit with the creative element coming at a premium.

By his own admittance the decision making in the final third is often flagged as a reason for a defeat, poor performance or in some cases good without the end product.

When it's consistently touted you would like to think it will be addressed with the surety of another Championship season and revenues it attracts.If sourced it's then a question of whether the forward line can put them away.

Without getting to carried away I remain to be convinced that a far more expansive style of play will ever be what Critchley aims for on the whole as I don't think it's what he believes in.Not a criticism just an observation.
 
As a nobber I honestly think that the complaining about Critchley is over the top. I think since his appointment he’s been a breath of fresh air for you. Remember lads, he’s on a learning curve just as much as the players are. Stick with him, back him and be thankful you have one of the up and coming coaches in football. I hate to say it but I do think he will take you on a fabulous and at times bumpy road.
 
Kenny is a damned good footballer! He has had a couple of off days, so what!? Show me somebody who is always on top form in their job. They don’t exist! Kenny has contributed hugely to the recent success of our great club. Long may he be with the Seasiders. UTMP. 🍊
 
There's about 2 people on the whole of avftt that wouldn't want NC as manager at the moment. And i reckon 1 of them is a nobber
 
I’m not really interested in playing ‘open expansive football’ to be honest. You could just as easily refer to it as ‘tactically naive football’ IMHO.

I’m very happy with the way Critch approaches his football and trust him to deliver us increasing success over time.

👍
 
Like I wrote on another thread, we have players who are great at something but not great at enough things. We aren't the 1974 Holland side playing total football, where everyone can slot in anywhere. We are a Championship side who would benefit hugely from a good midfield play-maker. Without that, yes, we see Dougall floundering at times, the forwards not getting good derive and wing-backs struggling we need our 2022 Championship version of Paul Simpson, Richie Wellens, David Vaughan, Barry Ferguson, Angel Martinez.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m not really interested in playing ‘open expansive football’ to be honest. You could just as easily refer to it as ‘tactically naive football’ IMHO.

I’m very happy with the way Critch approaches his football and trust him to deliver us increasing success over time.

👍
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I think your's is a perfectly reasonable comment because Critchy has got us into the position we are in now, which at the beginning of the season was all our aspirations with his style of football, and I applaud him.
But now is the time to experiment and for me that could include trying a bit of more "open expansive football".
 
That sense of ‘entitlement’ is a dangerous thing in Football and we’ve seen a lot of it this week. I think sone of our fans just thought we had to turn up on Tuesday night for a guaranteed win.

When they don’t see the success expected, then it’s toys out the pram time.

A great deal of our success both recently and under Ian Holloway was founded on the ability for our players to make mistakes and have the odd bad game, without the fear of reprisals or the wrath of the boo boys.

For the first time since we played away at Derby, there was a sense of expectancy on Tuesday night and that was on the back of a mass exodus, which left our players to see out the 4-1 thrashing vs Forest in a half empty Stadium in the full glare of the Sky Cameras.

This is where we found ourselves after our Premier League year and it’s precisely why many much bigger clubs struggle to get out of League 1. We need to drop the billy big bollocks attitude and het back to backing the lads no matter what….
 
I agree Bifster.
There was a sense of expectancy on Tuesday because I/we genuinely thought we are a better team than Preston (and I still do). That made Ryan Lowe's team talk very easy and his players responded. I sometimes think the foul count demonstrates this, 9 conceded, 17 for. They wanted it more.
I'm not throwing my toys out of the pram and I was still in the ground to see how many weren't when the final whiste blew against Forest.
That still doesn't change my view that it's time to assess the fringe players and look at different formations.
 
voyeur said:
Well actually Madine has improved and I've said so. I disagree about Kenny and have simply said so, it's my opinion. The knives do come out after defeats, there is an inconsistency.
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I've consistently not rated Kenny as you know, nothing to do with the last 2 days. He's just blah, grey, peas are green sort of player, he'll always get into a league 1 side but he isn't championship quality. 2 decent central midfielders needed next season with Carey and Stewart when fit and see how Matty Virtue gets on. We have been mind numbingly bland in central midfield all season apart from when Carey played.
 
hertfordseasider said:
I've consistently not rated Kenny as you know, nothing to do with the last 2 days. He's just blah, grey, peas are green sort of player, he'll always get into a league 1 side but he isn't championship quality. 2 decent central midfielders needed next season with Carey and Stewart when fit and see how Matty Virtue gets on. We have been mind numbingly bland in central midfield all season apart from when Carey played.
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No offence Pete, but if you're seriously suggesting 'Stewart when fit' as a plan for next season, then it's hard to take your views on Dougall with any degree of seriousness.
 
Insider said:
I agree Bifster.
There was a sense of expectancy on Tuesday because I/we genuinely thought we are a better team than Preston (and I still do). That made Ryan Lowe's team talk very easy and his players responded. I sometimes think the foul count demonstrates this, 9 conceded, 17 for. They wanted it more.
I'm not throwing my toys out of the pram and I was still in the ground to see how many weren't when the final whiste blew against Forest.
That still doesn't change my view that it's time to assess the fringe players and look at different formations.
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I’m not sure they wanted it more, so much as needed it more. We beat them comprehensively at our place and they’ll have been desperate to put that right. I don’t think we lacked any commitment, we just struggled to compete on the night.

I suspect Stewart and / or Connolly would have given us more bite in the centre of the park, but our options on the night were limited through injury. That said we’re not really about physical, foul based football and with a different referee Preston’s hot-headedness might have resulted in a red and them throwing the game away.

I can’t say I was confident that we were the better side at all on the night… The side of 4 weeks ago would have destroyed them, but we looked sluggish and out of sorts vs Forest and the enforced changes on Tuesday left us lacking any serious threat. The team news was met with unanimous disappointment on our coach.

It’s up to Critch what he does from now to the end of the season. Whatever he does, I trust his judgement and know it will be done in the best interests of the Club.
 
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