Andrew Marr v Nicola Sturgeon

GJJW said:
How do you think an independence vote would pan out at the moment pal? My relatives up there cant understand the calls for it.
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The trouble , no matter what the English report, compared to Boris, people think she is doing OK on this one issue. Add in the stuff about London doing much better than the north which has sparked a northern independence movement and folk I know who voted NO last time would vote differently this. Don’t forget SNP came to power on the back of the Unionist vote in Glasgow.
 
Bob Hatton said:
What do Scots expect from English people when all we see is anti English rhetoric from the SNP and its leader?
Plus every pound of Scottish budget us subsidised by English taxpayers in order that Scotland can operate as it does.
Sorry but you can't expect us to just turn the other cheek when all we hear is about how much you want to be independent
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Oi what is this you bollox ? I am English working for an English company in beautiful Highland Scotland and it is attitudes like yours and Boriss which make independence more not less likely
 
So, if Scotland goes independent it gives up £15 billion per annum funding received from England, it will be unable to use sterling as its currency, it will have no armed forces, there will be a border between itself and England, its dwindling oil supplies and the future lack of demand for oil will leave it even more insolvent than it already is. It will have no money to pay for free education, free prescriptions, free social services. In view of the small population, taxes will have to be pushed up at a disproportionate rate to cover basic costs. And no more seats at the top table of world politics or trade deals.

Not quite the same as the UK leaving the EU is it chaps?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Oi what is this you bollox ? I am English working for an English company in beautiful Highland Scotland and it is attitudes like yours and Boriss which make independence more not less likely
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Its not my attitude its the SNP and their anti English rhetoric driving this. I don't want to break the union, love Scotland and agree the Highlands are beautiful. If they want to be independent then fine but they will be far worse off on their own.
 
Bob Hatton said:
Its not my attitude its the SNP and their anti English rhetoric driving this. I don't want to break the union, love Scotland and agree the Highlands are beautiful. If they want to be independent then fine but they will be far worse off on their own.
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I don’t want to break up the uk either I voted no last time. However yet again in the thread above, it seems it is the english pound the English army etc. It isn’t it is the British army and pound. NO won last time because no one had a credible alternative currency and still don’t, and because YES meant leaving the EU . The UK has voted leave and we have . That has left a bitter taste as E U money helped enormously in the deprived and rural areas neglected for decades by Whitehall . It is seen up here that Scottish oil kept the UK afloat for 40 years, down there it is seen as British oil. Perception is important and just like the north of England they don’t trust the UK government to look after them fairly.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I don’t want to break up the uk either I voted no last time. However yet again in the thread above, it seems it is the english pound the English army etc. It isn’t it is the British army and pound. NO won last time because no one had a credible alternative currency and still don’t, and because YES meant leaving the EU . The UK has voted leave and we have . That has left a bitter taste as E U money helped enormously in the deprived and rural areas neglected for decades by Whitehall . It is seen up here that Scottish oil kept the UK afloat for 40 years, down there it is seen as British oil. Perception is important and just like the north of England they don’t trust the UK government to look after them fairly.
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I totally get it, if I was Scottish I probably would vote SNP with my heart but being a realist accept that independence would leave Scotland far worse off than it is now. However being a proud English man I won't accept anti English rhetoric without defending it. That said being a proud sand grown northerner I also feel that Westminster needs to spread the love our way and across the border as well
 
The Imperial College “vaccine expert” went totally off piste when he threw in the notion that it might make ‘long covid’ less severe. I guess he used his powers of clairvoyance to come up with that because it was outside the scope of the trial.

Not a peep from AM which means I won't watch the idiot box again for another few months.
 
Sturgeon is obsessive about independence for Scotland to the exclusion of all logic. And has been since she joined the SNP at the tender age of 16. “Independence” is her reason for existence and dominated her formative years at university. And has warped her rationality.

To that end, she has developed an inflexible and dogmatic character. And so does not think everything through in detail. Which is not good for a politician to succeed in the country’s best interests. Moderation in all things is more likely to succeed.

I feel that her character flaws are the direct risk to Scotland’s prosperity if she pushes through her agenda. However, this uber-patriotic nonsense has captivated the Jocks, who have been conned to feel they are always victims of the English instead of understanding how much the rest of the UK supports them.

The SNP are socialist nationalists and their propaganda is very negative about the UK while foolishly dreaming that the EU somehow is their knight in shining armour. Dream on if you think the French care a toss for the old “Bon Accord” of the late Middle Ages up to the 18thC. That was only ever a French pretext to rile up and distract the English by supporting a hostile country on their northern border. History shows that after Scotland was pacified and aligned in the UK that the whole country entered the industrial surge of prosperity in the late 18th and 19th C.
 
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I'm half Scottish and half English, believe me there is an anti English sentiment the area I know east central Glasgow and renfrewshire

Something I came across as a kid and as an adult, some of it is abrasive banter but others more bitter ,never found it is reciprocated in England to their credit

Anyway agree with most SNP are populist one trick pony
I consider myself to be of the left but as with Brexit there was a one shot referendum and the Scot's decided to remain part of UK- Boris rightly tells her to fk off and get on with running the country

My relatives up there are quite divided .My old uncle Gerry a trade unionist and Labour voter considered voting independence last time and when I asked him why he replied would stop the moaning and blaming English for all their problems - doubt that would be case with Krankt Nichola

Thought Marr exposed her as second rate nationalist, no better than Farage
 
I think wherever you look in the world neighbours, be they nations, regions or individuals, often fall out and where one is bigger or more successful than the other resentment often festers.
 
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I am instinctively turned off by nationalism. Leaving aside the far-right numbnuts, when it comes to politics it should be a debate about ideas and philosophies rather than proselytising about land borders.
What puts the Scots Nats out of kilter with the English is that their nationalism is based around a leftwing ideology, whereas English nationalism has tended to be right wing in character. To my way of thinking this accounts for the Scots Nats having a broad appeal. Scotland is naturally socially democratic in its politics, if rather conservative in its culture.
One thing that is for sure is that the Scots have become sick and tired of being treated as an afterthought by a series of Tory Governments. That would be enough to drive even the most reasonable unionist mad.
Even so, I think nationalism is not the way forward for Scotland and the only way of proving that is to have a UK Government that treats all our nations equally and inclusively.
 
Extreme nationalism can certainly be a dangerous thing especially when it is aligned to despising other nations and races(eg Hitler) but pride in one`s own country,especially in its positive achievements is surely a natural and healthy emotion be you English, Scottish or a citizen of any other country but that should not prevent constructive friendly collaboration with your neighbours for mutual benefit.
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
I think wherever you look in the world neighbours, be they nations, regions or individuals, often fall out and where one is bigger or more successful than the other resentment often festers.
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Like England and the rest of Europe, with its quality cars, fantastic food, lovely climate and beautiful women. Who would want to be a part of that!!
 
Sturgeon’s interview responses were just the usual evasive nationalist clichés (imho) trotted out in response to what were Marr’s serious and direct questions as to the actual performance of her Scottish administration on several key issues for which she has devolved powers. She just used outright denial of objective facts presented by Marr rather than explanations. Perhaps enough to persuade her blinkered supporters but will not convince the bankers.
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
Anyone watch this interview?

AM a Scot himself absolutely tore her to shreds. Showing that in each of the last four weeks despite her claims to the contrary figures for deaths in Scotland are worse per capita than in England.
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I'm no fan of NS but he hardly tore her to shreds . . . he managed to find 4 weeks out of 46 where the death figures per head were higher in Scotland than England. He forgot to mention the other 42 weeks when it was the other way round !!
 
GJJW said:
Yes, but someone at their end has persuaded us (or the powers that be) to pay off it. Either very good negotiating on their part or very naive of us.
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Another example of our skilled negotiating team. Sure Brexit will be fine.
 
See she’s handing out ‘ sweeties ‘

£500 per NHS / social care workers that she wants the UK govt to waive tax on and £100 per low income family in time for Xmas
 
Leither said:
I'm no fan of NS but he hardly tore her to shreds . . . he managed to find 4 weeks out of 46 where the death figures per head were higher in Scotland than England. He forgot to mention the other 42 weeks when it was the other way round !!
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Have you watched this interview because if you have you could hardly post your answer above totally ignoring the many issues I listed on which Sturgeon was shown to have made false promises or failed to deliver or just lied about what she has achieved.

Bad as she was shown to be you post is worse.I suggest you watch the interview which is posted on this thread listen to it properly this time and then give your head a shake.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
See she’s handing out ‘ sweeties ‘

£500 per NHS / social care workers that she wants the UK govt to waive tax on and £100 per low income family in time for Xmas
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Yes considering the deficit she was already running even before Covid arrived these "sweeties" are one more illustration of what kind of leader she is.
 
It beggars belief that the Scots, who have given so much to the UK over the centuries, are willing to back a party who would become a dictatorship should independence ever be achieved. Who would the opposition be? Likewise it would reduce the opposition to the Tories in England. Do we want a dictatorship as well? I think not. People need to think long and hard about the outcome if the Scots were to split up the UK. Were stronger together.
 
The deeper you look into the SNP's governance of Scotland, the clearer its incompetence becomes. What's crystal clear is that NS has little idea about running a country, has massively overspent and has little prospect of stabilising the economy without her annual subsidy from Westminster.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
Have you watched this interview because if you have you could hardly post your answer above totally ignoring the many issues I listed on which Sturgeon was shown to have made false promises or failed to deliver or just lied about what she has achieved.

Bad as she was shown to be you post is worse.I suggest you watch the interview which is posted on this thread listen to it properly this time and then give your head a shake
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I can't make any sense of your post . . . maybe you skipped the English lesson at school when they were teaching punctuation 😀

I did listen to most of the interview and as I said it was hardly a car crash.

I didn't intend to answer all the points raised I was simply pointing out that Marr chose the only 4 weeks in the pandemic where the death rate in Scotland was higher than England. For the other 42 it has been considerably lower.
 
Leither said:
I can't make any sense of your post . . . maybe you skipped the English lesson at school when they were teaching punctuation 😀

I did listen to most of the interview and as I said it was hardly a car crash.

I didn't intend to answer all the points raised I was simply pointing out that Marr chose the only 4 weeks in the pandemic where the death rate in Scotland was higher than England. For the other 42 it has been considerably lower.
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I can`t see any problem for any literate person reading and understanding my post.If you need some help with your comprehension try not to worry about it,I am happy to help if that`s at all possible. 👍

You choose one issue from the entire interview in an attempt to make your case but NS`s specific claims on that issue in that interview were that CURRENTLY Scotland has the lowest death rates from Covid in the UK but then AM produced the figures that show that in every one of the last 4 weeks Scotland`s deaths per capita are significantly higher than England`s which completely demolished her false claim.

You then choose to ignore all the other issues on which AM further shoots her down in flames, issue by issue as I have mentioned above, which underlines what a strange totally ill informed case both you and indeed Nicola so comprehensively fail to make.

If you have been unable to grasp those clear and simple facts from the interview which everyone on here seems to have had no difficulty with unless perhaps, although it`s not very long, you just haven`t bothered to fully listen to it, then either way it is hardly surprising that you fail to agree with or even comprehend the accuracy of my posts and Andrew Marr`s very effective debating points.

As I have said try listening to the whole interview again, even take notes if you need to, its really not that difficult,and then perhaps the penny will drop. If even then it doesn`t I`m sorry but I fear there`s really not much more any of us can do to help.
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
I am certainly not anti Scottish in general ,quite the reverse I think we are much better staying together and working together as a UK family.

The problem is that Sturgeon and the Scot Nats seem to despise us which sadly is then inevitably reciprocated down here.

According to current polls the majority of Scots now seem to support the separatists view.I just hope they really understand what their leaders would lead them into and that Sturgeon is far from the wise competent leader that many seem to think as Andrew Marr shed further light on this morning.

The old saying "united we stand divided we fall "seems relevant against what the Scot Nats. endlessly obsess about at the expense of all the damage they could cause and the widespread failings of their current governance in Scotland.
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It's a case of being slightly less shit than Johnson. Anyone can look good with that comparison.
 
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