Apter and youth policy

TKL_Seasider said:
Exeter is an interesting example, but it’s significant that they’ve got a vast area to go at with very few professional football clubs looking at players. Complete contrast to us.
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Try Fleetwood then. They've brought quite a number through now and sold some on for decent money. And in League 1.
 
TKL_Seasider said:
I remember when Maxwell and Madine were his favourites, to the chagrin of many… almost like people are pulling this out of their arses …
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Were they his favourites? Not sure.

How does Connolly claim the left wing back slot when Lyons hasnt been used there? With three centre backs on the pitch at home to Burton? Its bloody odd in my opinion. Just my amateur opinion of course. But how many managers would have chosen Connolly over Lyons? Its a Critchism.
 
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voyeur said:
Were they his favourites? Not sure.

How does Connolly claim the left wing back slot when Lyons hasnt been used there? With three centre backs on the pitch at home to Burton? Its bloody odd in my opinion. Just my amateur opinion of course. But how many managers would have chosen Connolly over Lyons? Its a Critchism.
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It’s a 50-game season. Let’s not leap to conclusions off one game.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
This has become a AVFTT myth turned factamundo. When he picks Lyons, will the myth continue?

He picked James Husband at the weekend but he was signed by a different manager but that isn't mentioned as it would break the myth.
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His comments about Lyons on Radio Lancs don’t seem to have had as much attention as what he said about Trybull. I do rather wonder why …
 
TKL_Seasider said:
His comments about Lyons on Radio Lancs don’t seem to have had as much attention as what he said about Trybull. I do rather wonder why …
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Some people may want to consider that Critch might be protecting Lyons who is still a young player who has work to do on his defensive side and, more importantly, was signed last season from the League of Ireland whose season runs from February to November so he effectively had a 15 month season without a break from February 2022 to May 2023.
 
TKL_Seasider said:
It’s a 50-game season. Let’s not leap to conclusions off one game.
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Of course. Just an odd decision, for me, and surely we want to see tmriunx pegs in round holes, a balanced team and some decent delivery into the box. Burton sussed us out at half time cos we had one supply line that worked. Through the middle to Morgan.
 
voyeur said:
Of course. Connolly isnt a wing back though is he? And he only appeared on yhe left in the last pre season game so it easnt the plan. We need somebody suited to that position and he hasnt tried LLyons there yet. Despite Lyons playing on the left as an inverted wing back at his previous club! Explain that.
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I don't disagree with you but I'm pretty certain Critch does.
Critch has said in todays pre-match presser that Lyons will be play this season and is an integral part of the squad.
I was sat in the car on the way to Bloomfield Rd just before the team was announced telling Mrs Insider that Connolly would play LWB and CJ on the right. It was nailed on. Its part of his "risk averse" strategy.
This isn't criticism of The Little Imp it's just his style
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
This has become a AVFTT myth turned factamundo. When he picks Lyons, will the myth continue?

He picked James Husband at the weekend but he was signed by a different manager but that isn't mentioned as it would break the myth.
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no myth at all. I've mentioned many times previously about Husband being the exception to the rule. Do keep up. Many fans have observed that Critchley has his favourites and players he's not signed himself seems to be a perfectly valid reason for that.
 
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Insider said:
I don't disagree with you but I'm pretty certain Critch does.
Critch has said in todays pre-match presser that Lyons will be play this season and is an integral part of the squad.
I was sat in the car on the way to Bloomfield Rd just before the team was announced telling Mrs Insider that Connolly would play LWB and CJ on the right. It was nailed on. Its part of his "risk averse" strategy.
This isn't criticism of The Little Imp it's just his style
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Critch played CJ at RWB and Connolly at LWB v Hibs so I knew it was likely against Burton.

It is indeed his style and I preferred Dobbie's style myself. He would never put Connolly at left wing back. And CJ was our worst player on Saturday. You can be as quick as you like, if nothing comes of it you are weakening the team.

Two poor selections for me. We need to sort the wing back positions out. Starting with Lyons. With our currently fit players I'd probably use Lyons on the right and Hubby left and use 3 of Marv Penn Casey Connolly as CBs.

It's not rocket science. Critch is heading for an Elon Musk style crash landing with his current thinking. Avoiding the bleeding obvious in the name of data science, or something.
 
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Shaw the last to go on and play professional football. Before that, Bright Samuel, before that Telford. Antwi left for Cardiff but hasn’t made their first team.

They’ve been few and far between but I think we have a promising crop right now. Apter, Holmes, Marriette, Moore and Lankshear are all looking decent enough but whether Critch will give them opportunities is another thing - some coaches give youth a chance, others don’t.
 
At the end of the day, you're only going to get the odd one through the academy. The idea that by not giving youth players a chance in the team is somehow preventing us from unearthing a top player is a bit silly. They are either good enough or not. Obviously, we don't want to overlook someone with undoubtable talent too - we've done that in the past.
 
20togo said:
simple. He didn't sign Lyons. And his 'favourites' are players he's signed for the club himself.
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It looks like he prefers Casey to Tharme, was Casey signed by Critch?
He also often played Turts ahead of Gabriel, and offered Turts a new contract but too late in the day.
Not sure it as cut and dried as some make out.
 
tangysider said:
It looks like he prefers Casey to Tharme, was Casey signed by Critch?
He also often played Turts ahead of Gabriel, and offered Turts a new contract but too late in the day.
Not sure it as cut and dried as some make out.
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yep Casey was signed by him. Of course it's not cut and dried but as many have said Critchley seems to have his favourites. And pretty much to a man, most fans are baffled by his non selection of Lyons who is a genuine wingback as opposed to the two players he picked for the that position on saturday who no-one really thinks is a wing back.
 
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LA1 Seasider said:
You’ve got to remember Blackburn have been funding a top class academy for years and years and are a Cat 1 academy - one of the best and most productive and therefore have the pick of the best locally and nationally. We’re 30 years behind them - maybe more. Wigan are a decade or so ahead and so are PNE. We’re making massive strides but there’s a lot of ground to catch up on and the fruits of that labour won’t be seen immediately or even in the short or possibly medium term. This is something you’ll likely only be able to make a judgement on come 2030
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Exactly this.
Blackburn’s academy is out of the top draw and it made me chuckle recently when some got giddy when we signed a young GK from them,he wouldn’t be here if they were confident he’d make the grade and most definitely wouldn’t of let a promising young keeper leave.
Wigan are also light years ahead of us in this department and are introducing youngsters into the team every season.
Apter from what I’ve seen should be on the bench minimum and I was disappointed and surprised he wasn’t on Saturday.
 
SeasideTizz said:
Exactly this.
Blackburn’s academy is out of the top draw and it made me chuckle recently when some got giddy when we signed a young GK from them,he wouldn’t be here if they were confident he’d make the grade and most definitely wouldn’t of let a promising young keeper leave.
Wigan are also light years ahead of us in this department and are introducing youngsters into the team every season.
Apter from what I’ve seen should be on the bench minimum and I was disappointed and surprised he wasn’t on Saturday.
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We did of course sign Joe Nuttall from Blackburn. Nathan Shaw (mentioned above) started at Blackburn. Jamie Hoyland was talking about Blackburn's Academy last night on Radio Lancs. I can't recall his precise words but his comments were to the effect that kids want to be there because they know they will get a chance to play 1st team football if they prove they are good enough. Although we might think ourselves fortunate that we are not "needs must" in having to play 19yr olds my argument remains that we are simply not giving them any sort of chance to prove themselves. Apter's absence from the bench with very little attacking options on Saturday seemed very odd to me.
It will be interesting to see tonight's line-up.
 
Insider said:
We did of course sign Joe Nuttall from Blackburn. Nathan Shaw (mentioned above) started at Blackburn. Jamie Hoyland was talking about Blackburn's Academy last night on Radio Lancs. I can't recall his precise words but his comments were to the effect that kids want to be there because they know they will get a chance to play 1st team football if they prove they are good enough. Although we might think ourselves fortunate that we are not "needs must" in having to play 19yr olds my argument remains that we are simply not giving them any sort of chance to prove themselves. Apter's absence from the bench with very little attacking options on Saturday seemed very odd to me.
It will be interesting to see tonight's line-up.
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I suppose with Apter being SO close to the squad but also likely out of it depending on who we sign it makes sense to not play him now so we have the option of loaning him out to a League 2 and/or even fellow League 1 side later in the season. If he played 10 minutes now it could make it hard to get 20/30 games on loan in League football later in the season
 
LA1 Seasider said:
I suppose with Apter being SO close to the squad but also likely out of it depending on who we sign it makes sense to not play him now so we have the option of loaning him out to a League 2 and/or even fellow League 1 side later in the season. If he played 10 minutes now it could make it hard to get 20/30 games on loan in League football later in the season
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Why?
 
Exactly, Insider. The argument that you will get picked if you are good enough is undermined by the risk aversion of some managers and the tendency to go for experience. But these experienced players were all given a chance as rookies by managers, when on most occasions they will have had an experienced option to pick instead. These managers opt to blood youngsters off the bench, particularly when their teams are cruising, or to give them a chance to play the full game because they operate a policy of developing youth players. Apter is a gifted player whom we need to nourish. Give him some game time.
 
Critch is maybe terrified of a backlash if we have a poor start and opting for experienced players out of position with a view to changing as the side settles down. I bloody hope so cos no way can we go through a season with CJ and Connolly as wing backs. But he really should be trusting players in his squad to play in their natural positions more than he is. Apter would do a better job than CJ. So would Dale. Or Lyons for god's sake! Play was breaking down repeatedly on the right. The wide men have to find the strikers. Passing and crossing are more important than pace. At one point CJ passed to a Burton player a few yards away, won it back and passed to a different Burton player! 😆
 
Lost Seasider said:
To be clear, some of you are talking about a player who's played 19 games in the National League as if he was someone who should be in the first XI.
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Well I'm certainly not saying that but from the top through Sadler and now Downes we appear to have a policy of developing our own talent which isn't quite happening yet.
 
Lost Seasider said:
To be clear, some of you are talking about a player who's played 19 games in the National League as if he was someone who should be in the first XI.
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Players step up from the National League to the EFL all the time. Scunny fans absolutely raved about him last season. Said he would easily step up.
 
voyeur said:
Players step up from the National League to the EFL all the time. Scunny fans absolutely raved about him last season. Said he would easily step up.
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Yes, but that doesn't mean they walk straight into the first team, Carey for example had a full season at King's Lynn, but got less than 500 minutes in his first season here, albeit in the Championship.

I'm sure his chances will come, likely beginning tonight, but let's not think that Critchley is ignoring him just because he wasn't selected for the first game.
 
"To be clear, some of you are talking about a player who's played 19 games in the National League as if he was someone who should be in the first XI."

No, we are talking about a really promising player who should be in the match squad most games and given time off the bench when appropriate and the occasional full game when circumstances allow it. It's called fast-tracking an obvious talent so that he can blossom with us, as per Sadler's and Critchley's stated policy.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
This has become a AVFTT myth turned factamundo. When he picks Lyons, will the myth continue?

He picked James Husband at the weekend but he was signed by a different manager but that isn't mentioned as it would break the myth.
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I was told in the ground all XI were his signings. Myth in action.
 
20togo said:
no myth at all. I've mentioned many times previously about Husband being the exception to the rule. Do keep up. Many fans have observed that Critchley has his favourites and players he's not signed himself seems to be a perfectly valid reason for that.
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Or my opinions are to be taken as facts. Thanks for clarifying.
 
20togo said:
no myth at all. I've mentioned many times previously about Husband being the exception to the rule. Do keep up. Many fans have observed that Critchley has his favourites and players he's not signed himself seems to be a perfectly valid reason for that.
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What about Madine, Maxwell, Ward, or going back to 2020/21 Turton and Kaikai?
 
Lost Seasider said:
What about Madine, Maxwell, Ward, or going back to 2020/21 Turton and Kaikai?
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well of course when he took over he still had players here signed by the former manager. It's pretty obvious that would be the case. None still
here now though. Look, it's stating the obvious that of course he's played players who were already here before he joined us. But he initially didn't start with Madine did he? Kaikai soon left too., It's my opinion and many others that he has his favourites and it's my opinion that Lyons is a better wing back than either Hamilton or Connolly who in my opinion aren't best suited to that position. You and anyone else can have a different opinion. It is however a fact that I supported his decision with regards to playing Maxwell over Grimshaw and to bring him straight back into the team after Maxwells first injury. Maxwell like you say being already here.

For clarification, I'm more than happy with Critchley as our manager but I will continue to express my opinions. And those opinions is that Critchley clearly has his favourites. And let's face it, Critchley clearly felt he had to justify his exclusion of Lyons from saturdays team didn't he?
L.
 
I don't disagree with the view that Critch has his favourites BUT does that make him any different than any other Manager? Of course not and that probably applies in all walks of life.
So no I don't always agree with his team selection and I didn't in the season he got us promoted.
So who's right?
(Well obviously me because we would have gone up as champions if I'd been in charge. 😁)
 
Lost Seasider said:
Why?
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If he plays even 10 seconds in the league for us it means he’s only eligible to play for one other league team this season. Say he goes to Barrow on loan and their manager is sacked and the new one doesn’t fancy him then even in January when we can recall him he can then only play for us or in non league. If we loan him out before he plays for us in the league this season it means potentially he could play for 2 other league clubs. Let’s for the example say he goes to Barrow again and does a) rubbish or b) brilliant it means in January we can either ship him out to another league 2 team, bring him back into the fold here or even move him up and out to top league 2 or a league 1 team to develop and prove himself further. All those options are better than potentially just a limited cameo right now - so I think patience these first few league games re. the kids is needed
 
Insider said:
I don't disagree with the view that Critch has his favourites BUT does that make him any different than any other Manager? Of course not and that probably applies in all walks of life.
So no I don't always agree with his team selection and I didn't in the season he and saturdays team ba got us promoted.
So who's right?
(Well obviously me because we would have gone up as champions if I'd been in charge. 😁)
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Critchley is always right because he is in charge but we as fans are entitled to our opinions and to be able to express them. And I'm not sure one single person on here commented that both Connolly or Hamilton best position was as a wing back whereas we have a natural wing back in Lyons. A player who pretty much everyone has raved about since he joined us. So yep, it's pretty damn right to express our opinions and concerns over his non selection. Critchley pretty much like every other manager will be judged on results.
 
voyeur said:
Critch is maybe terrified of a backlash if we have a poor start and opting for experienced players out of position with a view to changing as the side settles down. I bloody hope so cos no way can we go through a season with CJ and Connolly as wing backs. But he really should be trusting players in his squad to play in their natural positions more than he is. Apter would do a better job than CJ. So would Dale. Or Lyons for god's sake! Play was breaking down repeatedly on the right. The wide men have to find the strikers. Passing and crossing are more important than pace. At one point CJ passed to a Burton player a few yards away, won it back and passed to a different Burton player! 😆
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I've been one of CJ's biggest critics but don't agree with all this crap being dished out. I thought he was devastating at times on Saturday, he was totally demoralizing their left back who couldn't live with his pace. The final ball wasn't there or he sometimes took the wrong option but you could have said that about Bowler at times. Critchley tends to balance out his wing backs so if he has an attacking RWB he goes for a more defensive LWB hence Connolly, not saying I agree with it but that's how he plays it.
 
20togo said:
well of course when he took over he still had players here signed by the former manager. It's pretty obvious that would be the case. None still
here now though. Look, it's stating the obvious that of course he's played players who were already here before he joined us.
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Ward and Madine left due to injury, Maxwell was a business decision based on Grimshaw, Turton turned down a contract, and I don't remember the story with Kaikai.

There were only 2 games in the rest of the 2019/20 season before it was called off, so he had a full summer's transfer window (more in fact) to get rid of a lot of dross, the half dozen players he thought were good enough he kept and used heavily.


20togo said:
It's my opinion and many others that he has his favourites and it's my opinion that Lyons is a better wing back than either Hamilton or Connolly who in my opinion aren't best suited to that position. You and anyone else can have a different opinion. It is however a fact that I supported his decision with regards to playing Maxwell over Grimshaw and to bring him straight back into the team after Maxwells first injury. Maxwell like you say being already here.
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I'm simply questioning the claim that Husband was the exception to the rule, when there were 5 other exceptions as well.

And Lyons is as much a Critchley signing as an Appleton one, and he's starting tonight.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Ward and Madine left due to injury, Maxwell was a business decision based on Grimshaw, Turton turned down a contract, and I don't remember the story with Kaikai.

There were only 2 games in the rest of the 2019/20 season before it was called off, so he had a full summer's transfer window (more in fact) to get rid of a lot of dross, the half dozen players he thought were good enough he kept and used heavily.



I'm simply questioning the claim that Husband was the exception to the rule, when there were 5 other exceptions as well.

And Lyons is starting tonight.
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he was the exception to the rule on saturday wasn't he?
 
20togo said:
he was the exception to the rule on saturday wasn't he?
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Being the only one left at the club, that's inevitable, but of the other five, four left for reasons outside his control, and I don't think too many were upset at the decision not to take up the option on Kaikai.
 
Seainsea said:
I've been one of CJ's biggest critics but don't agree with all this crap being dished out. I thought he was devastating at times on Saturday, he was totally demoralizing their left back who couldn't live with his pace. The final ball wasn't there or he sometimes took the wrong option but you could have said that about Bowler at times. Critchley tends to balance out his wing backs so if he has an attacking RWB he goes for a more defensive LWB hence Connolly, not saying I agree with it but that's how he plays it.
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80% of out attacks came down the two flanks on Saturday but we created hardly anything from them. We lost the ball regularly in the right. When you see good wide they can control the ball and hit accurate passes and crosses into the danger area. That is what we need. Not this random crap.
 
So forget Lyons Saturday who are all these players that Critchley didn't pick ahead of 'HIS' boys who played in front of them and did they deserve to start?

Because for someone who is on Avftt everyday I've never heard ever of this line before about Critchley so it's in the myth camp .
 
I think the proof will come in the EFL Trophy games - and let's not rush these players - long season ahead and am sure they will get to play their part. Just being around a positive first team is a massive step up on last season!
 
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