Bowler

Bowler is probably the only player we have who can unlock defences with the ball at his feet throughout - it won't always pay off and there are days where his confidence isn't there/he's stopped by the opposition. There isn't another player who gets you off your seat though - I can still see him tearing the left back of PKE a new one when we played them. If he clicks in the next couple of seasons, he's a quality Prem player.
 
28 appearances in two seasons, quality that. Hardly reliable.

Bowler has looked the star man against numerous Championship teams, no argument.

Bowler’s assists are also debatable. Millwall way should count and he won the pen v Hull. In the Championship. You can’t honestly think CJ provides a greater threat based on records? From different leagues??

You are so far off with this view.
He also put one on a plate for Keshi at Huddersfield.
 
If Bowler runs the length of the pitch and beats 4 opposing players then lays it to Gaz who shifts it to Jerry to finish, there is no stat that captures that apart from completed dribbles. I believe Josh is top of completed dribbles in the division. He and Keshi have carried our threat this season. We may have to sell him, given the length of his contract, if he really wants to go, and someone like Fulham offers him big money. But we shouldn't sell cheap at this stage, his value to us this season is obvious, 500k is certainly not enough.
 
He didn’t get dogs abuse - his very obvious areas for improvement were commented on. As Critch later said, Josh had made some adjustments and has since delivered better all-round performance.

Your opinion about him being our most skilful player, others will have a different view. I hope he stays, but value to the club / team is about more than what another club is willing to pay. For me there are others that have greater value.
Who is more skillful on the ball than Josh? (Genuine question).
Look back at the posts and you will read the abuse he was given (similar to, but not quite as bad as Demi).
 
I’m not blinkered at all to Bowler. Can see his weaknesses, but can also see what he gives us and what the opposition think of him. Nobody else gives us what he can.

Of course the Football world uses stats but we’re in danger of it taking over. We’re a few months away from someone saying Keogh should start playing in midfield as he’s got the most completed passes in our squad.
And I've never said anything different to that.
"Stats" in the widest sense of the word have already taken over football. Every single movement a player makes is tracked by the sat nav he wears on his chest.
More loosely we use stats by saying Josh is a great player because he completed 10 successful dribbles, Jerry is great because he scored 3 goals from the 4 chances Bowler created for him.
I'm not against Bowler he just frustrates the life out of me but like every player that pulls on a tangerine shirt I want him to succeed.
 
One goal and 3 assists suggest we will not drop by a stone. The loss of Keshi is massively more significant.
You're obviously not counting the 'assists' that our strikers have failed to put into the net. Or the space that his runs make for other players - he regularly has 2 players assigned to marking him and often 3.
You appear to be taking an anti Josh approach to the debate, which differs from the vast majority or our supporters (and Critch). If you can't see his value to the team and the club, that's surprising but entirely your prerogative.
 
And I've never said anything different to that.
"Stats" in the widest sense of the word have already taken over football. Every single movement a player makes is tracked by the sat nav he wears on his chest.
More loosely we use stats by saying Josh is a great player because he completed 10 successful dribbles, Jerry is great because he scored 3 goals from the 4 chances Bowler created for him.
I'm not against Bowler he just frustrates the life out of me but like every player that pulls on a tangerine shirt I want him to succeed.
I would argue he is succeeding though especially in the past few games. He no doubts dipped mid-season but made a brilliant start to the season, opening day assist, good in Cup games, did well v Coventry, great v Fulham etc.

Peterborough
Huddersfield
Hull

Created goals and chances.

Against Middlesbrough he changed the dynamic of the game. Wilder said we pinned them back and he’s a big part of it.

He’s so far ahead of our other options in Mitchell, Dale and CJ. None of these have been anything like the level that Bowler has reached so far. I can’t recall bar Reading any of those having a decent game? Mitchell possibly 1st half v Stoke when he got a few booked.

Granted his consistency and final ball can frustrate but the focus should be on what he can do not what he can’t. So many pluses to what he brings to our attacking play.
 
I would argue he is succeeding though especially in the past few games. He no doubts dipped mid-season but made a brilliant start to the season, opening day assist, good in Cup games, did well v Coventry, great v Fulham etc.

Peterborough
Huddersfield
Hull

Created goals and chances.

Against Middlesbrough he changed the dynamic of the game. Wilder said we pinned them back and he’s a big part of it.

He’s so far ahead of our other options in Mitchell, Dale and CJ. None of these have been anything like the level that Bowler has reached so far. I can’t recall bar Reading any of those having a decent game? Mitchell possibly 1st half v Stoke when he got a few booked.

Granted his consistency and final ball can frustrate but the focus should be on what he can do not what he can’t. So many pluses to what he brings to our attacking play.
Well put. 👍
 
I would argue he is succeeding though especially in the past few games. He no doubts dipped mid-season but made a brilliant start to the season, opening day assist, good in Cup games, did well v Coventry, great v Fulham etc.

Peterborough
Huddersfield
Hull

Created goals and chances.

Against Middlesbrough he changed the dynamic of the game. Wilder said we pinned them back and he’s a big part of it.

He’s so far ahead of our other options in Mitchell, Dale and CJ. None of these have been anything like the level that Bowler has reached so far. I can’t recall bar Reading any of those having a decent game? Mitchell possibly 1st half v Stoke when he got a few booked.

Granted his consistency and final ball can frustrate but the focus should be on what he can do not what he can’t. So many pluses to what he brings to our attacking play.
Again I would agree with most of that so perhaps I'm just venting my frustration on him following my trip to Hartlepool where he ran out of steam (along with the rest of the team admittedly) after about 20mins.
 
You're obviously not counting the 'assists' that our strikers have failed to put into the net. Or the space that his runs make for other players - he regularly has 2 players assigned to marking him and often 3.
You appear to be taking an anti Josh approach to the debate, which differs from the vast majority or our supporters (and Critch). If you can't see his value to the team and the club, that's surprising but entirely your prerogative.
Brett, I suggest you re-read my comments on this thread. They are certainly not anti-Josh.

I don’t want him to leave, I’ve commented that he gets me off my seat and that he’s exciting to watch. I’ve also said he frustrating, but that he’s shown recent improvement in his all round game. What’s so bad about any of that, particularly as Critch has openly commented on adjustments to Josh’s game, and we’ve since seen him improve.

How is this negative?
 
Who is more skillful on the ball than Josh? (Genuine question).
Look back at the posts and you will read the abuse he was given (similar to, but not quite as bad as Demi).
Different styles, Josh is more skilful and CJ is more explosive. However, in their position, the same end result is required or it’s all pointless. I think we all agree that both have areas to improve, but they are our players and we support them.
 
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I don't see Rovers getting him - they'll have a job hanging onto Brereton-Diaz and a few other players due top contracts ending and their wage bill being way over.

From their March 2021 accounts: One alarming figure from Rovers' accounts is their wage to turnover ratio of 200 per cent, an increase of 42% from 2019/20 and has been continually increasing year-on-year. Reading, who were charged by the EFL for breaching Profit & Sustainability rules, posted a wage to turnover ratio of 198 per cent in their latest set of accounts.
Wages and salaries in total rose to £25.4m, an increase from the previous year and offers further insight as to why the club needed to part ways with several senior first-team figures during the summer, including the likes of Lewis Holtby and Corry Evans, as they looked to alleviate pressure on their wage structure. Those subtractions will be published in the next set of accounts leading to March 2022.
Inevitably turnover fell by £3.1m to a grand total of £12.7m in a year where Rovers played all of their Championship matches behind closed doors. Matchday income was down to £764,711 from just over £3m and in a period where there was a greater demand for televised fixtures, Rovers received £0.2m loss from television money in this set of accounts compared to the previous year, coming in at £7.7m.
Brereton-Diaz is some player. Perhaps we need to send scouts to Chile!
 
I think people have really short memories. I’ve watched Blackpool for 30 years and I’ve seen some good players but not that many who have actually stood out, and less so on a consistent basis.

Josh has had some fantastic games this season where he has looked the difference, he isn’t consistent but there’s enough there for him to be generating interest. Why do we have to focus on people’s shortcomings?

Jerry was the first Pool player to score 20 goals for years, he should be a hero but you’ll always get a section of our support slating him, people’s expectations really are mental sometimes.
 
Athers just reposted a tweet that Eky has blocked the most shots in the Championship. It's a funny old world when we all love stats that show how good our players are.
Well done Eky.
 
Brett, I suggest you re-read my comments on this thread. They are certainly not anti-Josh.
As i've said before on here, it's not just about this thread. It doesn't take a lot to go back and see a good number of posts with your anti Josh stance. And of course no coincidence that you start a thread jumping to the defence of CJ whilst the topic of Bowler is very current. So who in your opinion is the better player, who is more valuable as an asset and to the team?
 
As i've said before on here, it's not just about this thread. It doesn't take a lot to go back and see a good number of posts with your anti Josh stance. And of course no coincidence that you start a thread jumping to the defence of CJ whilst the topic of Bowler is very current. So who in your opinion is the better player, who is more valuable as an asset and to the team?
It’s complete coincidence and generated by the attack on CJ.

On Bowler, I have commented on clear areas for improvement - end product and work rate. Critch has commented about adjustments and we’ve seen an improvement. My posts in this thread are positive re Josh, yet you choose to overlook them and just want an argument. It’s boring.

To add, your post yesterday about Insider and me was ridiculous. What goes on in your head!
 
If Bowler leaves we will drop like a stone , I was looking at the fixtures earlier and we have some massively tough games, 2nd part of the season is gonna be harder and for me the Boro defeat at home was devastating and you don't just shake them results off.
As I understand it, the second half of the season we play the same teams as we played in the first half. Why is it harder?
 
As I understand it, the second half of the season we play the same teams as we played in the first half. Why is it harder?
I'd suggest the second half of our PL season was harder than the first. Teams got to know us and how we play. The same could apply to this season although I really don't think we've too much to worry about.
 
It’s complete coincidence and generated by the attack on CJ.

On Bowler, I have commented on clear areas for improvement - end product and work rate. Critch has commented about adjustments and we’ve seen an improvement. My posts in this thread are positive re Josh, yet you choose to overlook them and just want an argument. It’s boring.

To add, your post yesterday about Insider and me was ridiculous. What goes on in your head!
so it's not a complete coincidence then! It's you making the comparisons, it's you who brought that into the debate.. What goes on in my head is looking back at your previous posts and your constant negativity over a period of time aimed at Bowler. Your negativity to a player like Bowler is ill founded. I look at this thread, who else is a critical of Bowler as you or Insy?
 
I'd suggest the second half of our PL season was harder than the first. Teams got to know us and how we play. The same could apply to this season although I really don't think we've too much to worry about.
I'm a bit worried. I can't see us going down but I can see us struggling, as things stand. Without Wintle and Anderson I can see us having much less control in midfield and considerably less threat going forward. Wintle was the calm and Keshi is the inspiration, and he's a warrior, he leads us into battle, sort of. We've lost Carey for a good while too, he was an increasingly useful option.

That said, we are in a transfer window at the time we need it most, and we are trying to sign players and, if we recruit well, we may just end up better off. Perhaps, too, Stewart will get a run of fitness as he did the second half of last season. We are malfunctioning as an attacking unit, hence the importance of Keshi. If we can acquire a couple of better loans than TJJ and Dale, it could make a positive difference. At least we have an owner who is up for backing his manager, and he will do his best. I've no idea how Beesley will get on, it looks a big jump for him, but only time will tell. He gives us another option.
 
He comes from Stoke
Yes I believe so, as Ollygone's pointed it out to me. It's my fault for not researching - whoops!
Every time he's mentioned on TV & radio Lancs, which is often, as he's such an exciting & valuable talent, they mention that he's a Chilean international.
Anyway, I can't see Rovers keeping hold of him & Stoke's scouts missed a real gem!
 
so it's not a complete coincidence then! It's you making the comparisons, it's you who brought that into the debate.. What goes on in my head is looking back at your previous posts and your constant negativity over a period of time aimed at Bowler. Your negativity to a player like Bowler is ill founded. I look at this thread, who else is a critical of Bowler as you or Insy?
How much more clearly can I say it, my thread on CJ was not prompted by the thread on Josh.

My ‘negativity’ on Josh was actually me commenting on areas for improvement, echoed by many other fans and identified by Critch. How sad that you actually go back through posts to construct a highly selective argument. Why don’t you acknowledge my posts in this thread?

@Insider we been rumbled, we’ve got to stop comparing views before we post them. I don’t think 20’s ever got over the great Barry Ferguson debate.
 
Yes I believe so, as Ollygone's pointed it out to me. It's my fault for not researching - whoops!
Every time he's mentioned on TV & radio Lancs, which is often, as he's such an exciting & valuable talent, they mention that he's a Chilean international.
Anyway, I can't see Rovers keeping hold of him & Stoke's scouts missed a real gem!
Rovers signed Brereton from Forest and paid about 7 million. And I think Forest have a sell on clause too.
 
I’d be sad to see Bowler leave, but presently I’m more concerned about Keshi and the fact that Jerry isn’t being played. He is exciting and frustrating, but I don’t see him as a player who defines our team and success. This is borne out by his stats.

His value, who knows, but has to be a minimum of £2m, if other clubs think he’s going to help them to the EPL.

He didn’t get dogs abuse - his very obvious areas for improvement were commented on. As Critch later said, Josh had made some adjustments and has since delivered better all-round performance.

Your opinion about him being our most skilful player, others will have a different view. I hope he stays, but value to the club / team is about more than what another club is willing to pay. For me there are others that have greater value.

One goal and 3 assists suggest we will not drop by a stone. The loss of Keshi is massively more significant.

26 appearances, 1566 minutes played, 3 assists 1 goal.

Dale has scope and we’ve not seen the best of him. CJ needs game time, but scoring ability and record of assists is far greater than Josh.

CJ got slaughtered on Saturday, but still delivered 2 crosses that Lavery somehow managed to miss. He’s had 28 appearances in 2 seasons, just 5 this season with 191 game time. For comparison purposes, he scored 5 and had 3 assists in 23 appearances last season.

Bowler looked anything but a star against a L2 team, same issues as previously.
some pretty harsh criticism on this thread of him methinks. That said I acknowledge you said a minimum of 2 mill a a valuation whereas Insy is letting him go for 500k, So well done on that. Again, you might want to say it's sad of me to go back to threads. To me, it just confirms what I already knew. That you've been a long time critic of Bowler. As for the Ferguson debate, well you were wrong on that as well.
One more comment on Bowler. I don't think we've had a player like Bowler with such good close ball control and skill since Wes was here. Wes had a good few poor games for us even in L1 but we all recognised what a special talent he was. Not saying Bowler will get to the standard of Wes but he has the potential and there is definitely something very special about him. And I'm glad so many people on here realise that.
How much more clearly can I say it, my thread on CJ was not prompted by the thread on Josh.

My ‘negativity’ on Josh was actually me commenting on areas for improvement, echoed by many other fans and identified by Critch. How sad that you actually go back through posts to construct a highly selective argument. Why don’t you acknowledge my posts in this thread?

@Insider we been rumbled, we’ve got to stop comparing views before we post them. I don’t think 20’s ever got over the great Barry Ferguson debate.
 
some pretty harsh criticism on this thread of him methinks. That said I acknowledge you said a minimum of 2 mill a a valuation whereas Insy is letting him go for 500k, So well done on that. Again, you might want to say it's sad of me to go back to threads. To me, it just confirms what I already knew. That you've been a long time critic of Bowler. As for the Ferguson debate, well you were wrong on that as well.
One more comment on Bowler. I don't think we've had a player like Bowler with such good close ball control and skill since Wes was here. Wes had a good few poor games for us even in L1 but we all recognised what a special talent he was. Not saying Bowler will get to the standard of Wes but he has the potential and there is definitely something very special about him. And I'm glad so many people on here realise that.
Well, you’ve certainly confirmed you’re sad and selective.

Try answering my question from yesterday, and tell me where I’m being negative on this thread?

Stop trying to find an argument where there isn’t one to be had. Unlike you 20’s I don’t have a desperate need to be right. We all have opinions and it’s great to share them on here.

I don’t want him to leave, I’ve commented that he gets me off my seat and that he’s exciting to watch. I’ve also said he frustrating, but that he’s shown recent improvement in his all round game. What’s so bad about any of that?
 
Well, you’ve certainly confirmed you’re sad and selective.

Try answering my question from yesterday, and tell me where I’m being negative on this thread?

Stop trying to find an argument where there isn’t one to be had. Unlike you 20’s I don’t have a desperate need to be right. We all have opinions and it’s great to share them on here.

I don’t want him to leave, I’ve commented that he gets me off my seat and that he’s exciting to watch. I’ve also said he frustrating, but that he’s shown recent improvement in his all round game. What’s so bad about any of that?
where you are being negative on this thread. You being serious? Read some of your quotes that i've posted in my last post. You brought the question of stats up to back up your view. Stats which you use to be negative against him. Because you certainly weren't using them to be positive or even neutral about him were you? Jeez.
 
We are not in a position where we have to sell any players, so unless a bid of 4-5 million comes in let's keep hold of our best players and improve. Good bit of business either way. If we let him go for anything lower than that it's silly, unless of course there is something built into his contract about release clauses.
 
Nixon on Twatter reckons Jed Wallace is going to Forest for 2m and that they may still be interested in Bowler as Wallace plays on the left and "you can never have enough Ferraris".

If Wallace is 2m I can't see us getting more than that?
 
...j
Nixon on Twatter reckons Jed Wallace is going to Forest for 2m and that they may still be interested in Bowler as Wallace plays on the left and "you can never have enough Ferraris".

If Wallace is 2m I can't see us getting more than that?
said it somewhere else that Jed Wallace is a bloody good player who also has goals in his locker too.
 
I've said it before and ill say it again, i will be gutted if we lose him. He is an entertainer even if he frustrates at times. One of these days he's going to score an absolute worldy.
 
Nixon on Twatter reckons Jed Wallace is going to Forest for 2m and that they may still be interested in Bowler as Wallace plays on the left and "you can never have enough Ferraris".

If Wallace is 2m I can't see us getting more than that?


Isn't he out of contract in the summer? If he is, it helps our bargaining position with other clubs for Josh.
 
where you are being negative on this thread. You being serious? Read some of your quotes that i've posted in my last post. You brought the question of stats up to back up your view. Stats which you use to be negative against him.
I am deadly serious, there is nothing negative, unless you mistakenly count my reference to areas for improvement, referenced and addressed by Critch.

On Saturday he had an off day against a L2 team, in common with almost all our team. It’s a game to be forgotten, quickly.

So you can rest, I think Josh has talent and he excites me as much as he does other fans. I want him to stay and improve further. He has potential to be a top player, but in his position he will always be judged on the end product. Same as CJ and that’s why I’ve posted a thread to say give him a chance - more than 5 games.
 
I am deadly serious, there is nothing negative, unless you mistakenly count my reference to areas for improvement, referenced and addressed by Critch.

On Saturday he had an off day against a L2 team, in common with almost all our team. It’s a game to be forgotten, quickly.

So you can rest, I think Josh has talent and he excites me as much as he does other fans. I want him to stay and improve further. He has potential to be a top player, but in his position he will always be judged on the end product. Same as CJ and that’s why I’ve posted a thread to say give him a chance - more than 5 games.
The fact you feel the need to post his stats is nothing but designed to be a negative. Why even bring them up if you weren't intending to be negative about him?
 
The fact you feel the need to post his stats is nothing but designed to be a negative. Why even bring them up if you weren't intending to be negative about him?
Well I’ve tried and failed twice to generate some humour and harmony with you on this. You’re just an argumentative person who has a need to be right, and an absolute belief that you are. Try to grasp the point of a football forum, and that whatever our opinions, our players & club matter more than being right.
 
some pretty harsh criticism on this thread of him methinks. That said I acknowledge you said a minimum of 2 mill a a valuation whereas Insy is letting him go for 500k, So well done on that. Again, you might want to say it's sad of me to go back to threads. To me, it just confirms what I already knew. That you've been a long time critic of Bowler. As for the Ferguson debate, well you were wrong on that as well.
One more comment on Bowler. I don't think we've had a player like Bowler with such good close ball control and skill since Wes was here. Wes had a good few poor games for us even in L1 but we all recognised what a special talent he was. Not saying Bowler will get to the standard of Wes but he has the potential and there is definitely something very special about him. And I'm glad so many people on here realise that.
I'd say Tom Ince wasn't far off with ball control but I can't think of many natural dribblers that we've had in the last few decades at least. Dribbling has been a bit of a dying art so it's been great to see Bowler run at players and make his own space rather than passing sideways or back to find some space.
 
How much more clearly can I say it, my thread on CJ was not prompted by the thread on Josh.

My ‘negativity’ on Josh was actually me commenting on areas for improvement, echoed by many other fans and identified by Critch. How sad that you actually go back through posts to construct a highly selective argument. Why don’t you acknowledge my posts in this thread?

@Insider we been rumbled, we’ve got to stop comparing views before we post them. I don’t think 20’s ever got over the great Barry Ferguson debate.
I'll ring you later to discuss our next @20togo wind-up.
You do know he screenshots every single reply to his posts. 😁
 
Well I’ve tried and failed twice to generate some humour and harmony with you on this. You’re just an argumentative person who has a need to be right, and an absolute belief that you are. Try to grasp the point of a football forum, and that whatever our opinions, our players & club matter more than being right.
I've debated the points with you and had the respect for you not to throw out any negative personal remarks.
 
I'd say Tom Ince wasn't far off with ball control but I can't think of many natural dribblers that we've had in the last few decades at least. Dribbling has been a bit of a dying art so it's been great to see Bowler run at players and make his own space rather than passing sideways or back to find some space.
…and GTF, fantastic feet in tight spaces.
 
I'd say Tom Ince wasn't far off with ball control but I can't think of many natural dribblers that we've had in the last few decades at least. Dribbling has been a bit of a dying art so it's been great to see Bowler run at players and make his own space rather than passing sideways or back to find some space.
yep, tbh, I'd unkindly forgotten about Ince. He indeed was a talented player with the ball at his feet running at players.
 
I've debated the points with you and had the respect for you not to throw out any negative personal remarks.
🤣 you’ve spent 2 days accusing me of being negative. That’s not a debate.

There is nothing that I’ve posted that is inconsistent with general opinion, Critch included. Bottom line, exciting player, potential and some key areas to improve. Oh, and I want him to stay.
 
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