Brexit, and taking back control

B

basilrobbie3

Well-known member
It's going really well, isn't it?

Apart from galloping inflation, negligible growth, labour shortages, diminished influence in Europe and the tarnished reputation globally.

Still, at last the ERG got their talisman Jeremy Hunt into a position of de factor dominance of social and economic policy, and can look forward to defending their rock-solid Parliamentary majorities next time they have to go to the country.
 
Plus very many UK SMEs seriously damaged as exporting to our nearest market of 500,000 becomes v difficult if not impossible. Seems Amazon is thriving however.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
It's going really well, isn't it?

Apart from galloping inflation, negligible growth, labour shortages, diminished influence in Europe and the tarnished reputation globally.

Still, at last the ERG got their talisman Jeremy Hunt into a position of de factor dominance of social and economic policy, and can look forward to defending their rock-solid Parliamentary majorities next time they have to go to the country.
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I bet you’ve been saving that post up for months🙁
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's all a remainer plot;

www.telegraph.co.uk

I resent what’s been done to Liz Truss and regret this 'very British coup'. Any Tory who welcomes it is a fool

Deviate from orthodoxy, and you’ll be crushed by the Remainer, ‘expert’-driven establishment
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

It's amazing how these deep state Remainers got the bond traders and currency traders in on the plot to remove Truss but it just goes to show how embedded these remainer fifth columnists are.
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The markets responding well to Hunt's statement just show that its all a plot even more
 
Truss now a dead puppet walking, Hunt to be the next new PM in the coming days/weeks? He's basically reversed her mini-budget, giving her less than zero credibility now.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's all a remainer plot;

www.telegraph.co.uk

I resent what’s been done to Liz Truss and regret this 'very British coup'. Any Tory who welcomes it is a fool

Deviate from orthodoxy, and you’ll be crushed by the Remainer, ‘expert’-driven establishment
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

It's amazing how these deep state Remainers got the bond traders and currency traders in on the plot to remove Truss but it just goes to show how embedded these remainer fifth columnists are.
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We don't want experts in charge.

We want idiots making it up as they go, so we can exploit their stupidity before calming things down again, after stashing ill gotten, insider traded, gains.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
It's going really well, isn't it?

Apart from galloping inflation, negligible growth, labour shortages, diminished influence in Europe and the tarnished reputation globally.

Still, at last the ERG got their talisman Jeremy Hunt into a position of de factor dominance of social and economic policy, and can look forward to defending their rock-solid Parliamentary majorities next time they have to go to the country.
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I’m afraid you’re riding completely the wrong horse. Jeremy Hunt campaigned for and voted to remain in the referendum, hardly a poster boy for the ERG. 🤷
 
traffordtang said:
I didn’t think it was possible for this country to have a more undemocratically elected prime minister than Truss but I think Hunt and the Tory party are proving me wrong.
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Of course when Blair went, millions of voters elected Gordon Brown didn’t they. We didn’t have to wait 3 years for a general election, did we, or did we? oh yes we did.
 
Goforgoal said:
Of course when Blair went, millions of voters elected Gordon Brown didn’t they. We didn’t have to wait 3 years for a general election, did we, or did we? oh yes we did.
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Serious point, so serious reply

Gordon Brown continued the policies on which Blair won his third election, these muppets totally trashed the manifesto from 3 years ago.

The general point, though, I agree with. Change the PM, General Election.
 
Goforgoal said:
Of course when Blair went, millions of voters elected Gordon Brown didn’t they. We didn’t have to wait 3 years for a general election, did we, or did we? oh yes we did.
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Except that Blair had already told the party conference in 2004 that he'd seek a third term but didn't want a fourth and going in to the 2005 election it was common knowledge he was handing over to Brown at some point, that election was as much a mandate on Brown as it was Blair. He'd been in power over 10 years and was handing over to an ideological equal.

Just a touch different from asking 0.2% of the electorate to keep picking PMs until they find one electable. Five PMS in six years with only two elections is some going.
 
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There was a way to do Brexit, the so called Norway option. Stay in the single market via EFTA and the EEA (the UK invented the former) and see where we ended up a decade or so later. Oh no, a tiny majority were so brain dead they simply couldn't see we didn't have the politicians of the calibre to make Brexit work assuming it was even possible. What we got was a bunch of disaster capitalists making a killing and todays Banana republic. You'd have to be pretty braindead not to see that Brexit has failed.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Except that Blair had already told the party conference in 2004 that he'd seek a third term but didn't want a fourth and going in to the 2005 election it was common knowledge he was handing over to Brown at some point, that election was as much a mandate on Brown as it was Blair. He'd been in power over 10 years and was handing over to an ideological equal.

Just a touch different from asking 0.2% of the electorate to keep picking PMs until they find one electable. Five PMS in six years with only two elections is some going.
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Just because it was ‘common knowledge’ doesn’t make it any more democratic. It was still a handing over of power, the law wants changing so if the PM resigns an election must follow. The only exception would be if the PM died in office, a bit like Truss, she’s dying the death of a thousand cuts.
 
Goforgoal said:
Just because it was ‘common knowledge’ doesn’t make it any more democratic. It was still a handing over of power, the law wants changing so if the PM resigns an election must follow. The only exception would be if the PM died in office, a bit like Truss, she’s dying the death of a thousand cuts.
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I agree.

We all know the rules say “it’s just the party electing a new leader. So the party can decide”.

But when the new leader then heads off in a different direction to the one even the limited electorate voted for (see Liz Truss platform and compare to Jeremy Hunt’s platform) the PM and Chancellor have no mandate.

The system needs changing.
 
Goforgoal said:
Just because it was ‘common knowledge’ doesn’t make it any more democratic. It was still a handing over of power, the law wants changing so if the PM resigns an election must follow. The only exception would be if the PM died in office, a bit like Truss, she’s dying the death of a thousand cuts.
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Point taken and I'm no fan of NULABOUR, but to compare it the current shambles is a little silly.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Point taken and I'm no fan of NULABOUR, but to compare it the current shambles is a little silly.
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I’m not particularly comparing it to the current shambles, although I must admit it could be construed that way. I am just making a general point that the whole rotten system needs a complete overhaul, starting with the dishonourable ‘ honours’.
 
Took my dog to the Netherlands. Got waved through passport control and customs in Amsterdam. Did not even look at the dog. The Dutch vets for the pet passport = 13 Euros. UK side was loads of paperwork checking and pet passport vet = £280. We have created a nightmare of administration. We now have more controls and a frigging mess.
 
Goforgoal said:
Just because it was ‘common knowledge’ doesn’t make it any more democratic. It was still a handing over of power, the law wants changing so if the PM resigns an election must follow. The only exception would be if the PM died in office, a bit like Truss, she’s dying the death of a thousand cuts.
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I get your point, but one amelioration for the Labour situation was that Brown continued on the same strategic path that he'd put in place as Chancellor.

By contrast, Truss has completely gone against the 2019 manifesto that got this Government elected, then rowed back completely on the promises she made to get the job.

Double jeopardy and showing no regard for 'the will of the people', as she's so often spouting.
 
It’s a shame really. There’s plenty of opportunity. Unfortunately this Government have spent their entire efforts combatting Covid, Partygate & now themselves. 😡
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Except that Blair had already told the party conference in 2004 that he'd seek a third term but didn't want a fourth and going in to the 2005 election it was common knowledge he was handing over to Brown at some point, that election was as much a mandate on Brown as it was Blair. He'd been in power over 10 years and was handing over to an ideological equal.

Just a touch different from asking 0.2% of the electorate to keep picking PMs until they find one electable. Five PMS in six years with only two elections is some going.
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Just imagine if we'd have had a coalition of chaos tho. 🤣
 
Shandypants said:
The real opportunities of brexit include such delights as scrapping environmental and health and safety legislation and the trimming of workers rights.
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Yep - that was the plan. They hid the intention behind 'getting rid of red tape', 'light touch regulation', etc. Unsurprisingly the general public are resistant to scrapping environmental and employment rights and hence the inability to deliver any Brexit 'benefits'. Anybody who believes there are other major Brexit 'benefits' that are achievable are frankly living in cloud cuckoo land. If they were there they would be being implemented !

Their other intentions were to make sure proposed EU tax evasion regulations weren't imposed on the UK. It is pretty apparent that for the majority of the big financial donors to the Leave campaign (and the support of the big newspaper barons such as Murdoch, Rothsmere, Barclay brothers) this was their main fear for remaining in the EU. This is the only real Brexit benefit that has been delivered and those who have benefitted from it are delighted and keen to see that there is no thought of re-joining the EU.
 
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One news website article this morning was saying that the Tory muppets are considering Rishi or bringing back Boris! 🤡

Unbelievable 😂
 
“The majority of Conservative Party members want Liz Truss to resign now - just six weeks after voting her in - and their preferred replacement is Boris Johnson, a new poll has found.”

Sky News 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
But hey, we've taken back control. We now control our sovereign democracy by allowing 81,000 members of the Conservative Party to 'elect' a lunatic as Prime Minister. The next step in this 'control' we now exercise is to have another Tory crowned as Prime Minister with no election at all.
No, it's best in situations like this to leave control where it should belong - with the financial market speculators. They really understand that it's no use the British public being in control of anything: The economy? No, leave it to the venture capitalists; Foreign policy? Hmm, best left to America; I know, football! Again, best left to morally bankrupt middle eastern States and Rupert Murdoch.

Still, there is one area where we now excell over all others as a result of Brexit.....failure! Did you know that in 2016 the UK economy was 90% of the size of the German economy? Well it was, but under Brexit this has been successfully reduced to 70%. Yey, top that Fritz!
 
Re-join the single market, I'd bet Labour would want to do that, but after the Brexit election fiasco I'd bet it's not mentioned as a manifesto pledge, as they can't risk another shot in the foot. Anyway they will no doubt not be doing anything to ruin what at the moment appears to be an unassailable lead (awaits another smear campaign) I still think the Tories are up to no good though, why would anybody put the likes of Truss in the most senior position.............. unless
 
You have to laugh when somebody champions shutting the world down for 2 years and then complains when things get a little tight further down the line.
 
Shandypants said:
www.ft.com

The Brexit effect: how leaving the EU hit the UK

The UK's recent disastrous "mini" Budget can trace its origins back to Britain's decision to leave the European Union. The economic costs of Brexit were masked by the Covid-19 pandemic and the crisis in Ukraine. But six years after the UK voted to leave, the effect has become clear. In this...
www.ft.com www.ft.com

Very good documentary
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Everyone should watch it.
 
bill40 said:
There was a way to do Brexit, the so called Norway option. Stay in the single market via EFTA and the EEA (the UK invented the former) and see where we ended up a decade or so later. Oh no, a tiny majority were so brain dead they simply couldn't see we didn't have the politicians of the calibre to make Brexit work assuming it was even possible. What we got was a bunch of disaster capitalists making a killing and todays Banana republic. You'd have to be pretty braindead not to see that Brexit has failed.
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Spot on!
 
bill40 said:
There was a way to do Brexit, the so called Norway option. Stay in the single market via EFTA and the EEA (the UK invented the former) and see where we ended up a decade or so later. Oh no, a tiny majority were so brain dead they simply couldn't see we didn't have the politicians of the calibre to make Brexit work assuming it was even possible. What we got was a bunch of disaster capitalists making a killing and todays Banana republic. You'd have to be pretty braindead not to see that Brexit has failed.
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Hardly when an ex Norway government minister interviewed by the BBC strongly recommended NOT to do the Norway option and rubbished the deal.
 
Trammo said:
Hardly when an ex Norway government minister interviewed by the BBC strongly recommended NOT to do the Norway option and rubbished the deal.
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Luckily we avoided that and got a scrap metal deal with Mongolia instead.

Just dodged a bullet there, having to have trade deals with the EU and USA. Wouldn't want that any time soon.
 
Good documentary. People should definitely watch it. The figures on business investment and GDP are very striking (OK it wasn’t all about the economy).
We really need to be able to have proper conversations about where we are headed with this though and it feels like we are still some years away from being able to do even that.
 
The thing that really struck a chord on the documentary was the fact the no main stream political party advocated the brexit we ended up with, it was the policy of ukip only. Will of the people? No
 
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