Carey

[Bfc1974]

Simply not good enough! Critch seems to do his utmost to either start him or bring him on and he adds nothing! Terrible pass from him which led to the pen.

Quick question do people feel it's the player rather than the tactics? I'm probably going to get a ton of abuse for saying this but the lad plays a better game when we don't play the negative defensive tactics - where the crowd are sitting on squidgy bums as the ball is passed in front of our goalie and passed around the back. He's young and far from a finished article but definitely he and Dougall play better when it's attacking football. Just my thoughts! Quite honestly I walked out on us scoring the 2nd goal as I blame the manager for the ridiculous tactics. Whats more scarey to me is that most of the goals come form Rhodes who may be gone in January [Huddersfield are struggling and may well recall him!] - to me that spells freefall with a manager who seems utterly clueless in tactics and making substitutions such that they make any impact on the game.

Thompson conceded the first goal and had prior to that started to play well. Hes still not a fit compared to Lyons - can anyone update me on why he isnt playing?? Lavery is a winger not a forward. We start with Kouassi as a sub - absolutely tactical genuis Neil!

 

[Costero Poderoso]

First off I think Carey has been awful this season and I don't think he should be starting however I have some sympathy for him as he's playing in a position on the left of a wierd 3 that just doesn't suit him. I thought he played better more central with Dougal after the sending off when Oakley Booth went off.

Play him in the middle behind the front two and he will do damage.

The only logic I can see for starting Carey over Dembele is the (apparent) need to keep it solid in the first 60 mins before unleashing Dembele at the end. Not saying I agree, but it's all I can think of because the game passed Carey and OB buy last week and it seems like the same thing happened yesterday.

If you're going to keep it solid for 60 mins then Carey isn't the player to be doing that.

 

[straightatthewall]

Play him in the middle behind the front two and he will do damage.

If you're going to keep it solid for 60 mins then Carey isn't the player to be doing that.

I'm not saying it's a tactic I'd employ, but I think that's the rationale. He's (in theory) more solid than Dembele, who realistically is only going to play off the striker and provide minimal defensive structure.

 

[20togo]

Quick question do people feel it's the player rather than the tactics? I'm probably going to get a ton of abuse for saying this but the lad plays a better game when we don't play the negative defensive tactics - where the crowd are sitting on squidgy bums as the ball is passed in front of our goalie and passed around the back. He's young and far from a finished article but definitely he and Dougall play better when it's attacking football. Just my thoughts! Quite honestly I walked out on us scoring the 2nd goal as I blame the manager for the ridiculous tactics. Whats more scarey to me is that most of the goals come form Rhodes who may be gone in January [Huddersfield are struggling and may well recall him!] - to me that spells freefall with a manager who seems utterly clueless in tactics and making substitutions such that they make any impact on the game.

Thompson conceded the first goal and had prior to that started to play well. Hes still not a fit compared to Lyons - can anyone update me on why he isnt playing?? Lavery is a winger not a forward. We start with Kouassi as a sub - absolutely tactical genuis Neil!

pretty sure their first goal came from Careys awful cross field pass on the edge of our own box. i wouldn't put too much blame down to Thompson.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

I'm not saying it's a tactic I'd employ, but I think that's the rationale. He's (in theory) more solid than Dembele, who realistically is only going to play off the striker and provide minimal defensive structure.

Don't doubt it's the rationale which kind of leads me to the general thought that critchleys thinking is a bit limiting. Rigid system, and players have to adapt, or at least be willing to adapt, eg CC at left wing back, or Carey as part of a solid flat mid three, and, trying to be solid and hence more defensive which simply encourages teams to attack us, further exposing the defensive frailty in that one area.
If the bottom of the league team could cut through us at will in the second half and we gift them a goal, and we did gift it, when we had been absolutely dominating the game, it should indicate, if normal thought processes prevail, that there is something erroneous about the way we are playing. I just don't think critchley sees it.

 

[Wizzerboy]

This seasons scapegoat at least CJ has stuck two fingers up to you lot.

Dembele or Carey?
You decide and I'm prepared for you to stick two fingers up at me at seasons end if Carey proves to be the better player.
I won't be holding my breath though

 

[Wizzerboy]

Thought he played pretty good especially in second half good goal what do you want Pele?

No, he's dead

 

[straightatthewall]

Don't doubt it's the rationale which kind of leads me to the general thought that critchleys thinking is a bit limiting. Rigid system, and players have to adapt, or at least be willing to adapt, eg CC at left wing back, or Carey as part of a solid flat mid three, and, trying to be solid and hence more defensive which simply encourages teams to attack us, further exposing the defensive frailty in that one area.
If the bottom of the league team could cut through us at will in the second half and we gift them a goal, and we did gift it, when we had been absolutely dominating the game, it should indicate, if normal thought processes prevail, that there is something erroneous about the way we are playing. I just don't think critchley sees it.

Yeah, I have the same concerns. It's overly complicated, really doesn't need to be and has so far had limited success. I also worry about the impact on players confidence. Marvin is half the player he was and Carey is seen as whipping boy for many supporters too.

There's a lot to be said for letting people play to their strengths rather than to some convoluted system.

 

[20togo]

To be fair I'm only going off here so he probably had a stormer...

two very poor errors [cross field passes]one of which cost us a goal but as I've said at least i noticed him yesterday so he must have got involved as opposed to the game passing him by.

 

[CAGU]

Carey 2nd half did ok.

First half (along with quite a few) he was garbage. If you watch their free kick for the 2nd though he gets muscled to easily away from where he was standing creating the space for the opp to score bottom right.

Yes didn’t cover himself in glory for their goal but neither did Grimshaw

 

[CAGU]

Dembele or Carey?
You decide and I'm prepared for you to stick two fingers up at me at seasons end if Carey proves to be the better player.
I won't be holding my breath though

Dembele every time. How he wasn’t selected to start I just don’t know - Oakley -Booth ahead of him too!

 

[straightatthewall]

two very poor errors [cross field passes]one of which cost us a goal but as I've said at least i noticed him yesterday so he must have got involved as opposed to the game passing him by.

To Costero's point, when Sonny has played well it's been when he's allowed to play further forward off the strikers. As AK says this flat midfield 3 really doesn't seem to help him, whereas Dembele gets brought on to attack and stands out far more.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

Dembele or Carey?
You decide and I'm prepared for you to stick two fingers up at me at seasons end if Carey proves to be the better player.
I won't be holding my breath though

at the moment i would go with Dembele, he's an absolute bag of tricks and its interesting to note that despite his relatively small stature he doesn't get knocked off the ball very easily. couple of time I've noticed he's being tugged and pushed by burley CH's and he manages to guard possession really well.

 

[Chesterbfc]

The game passed Carey by, yet he’s our highest rated player from yesterday?

I wonder if he’s maybe just become a bit of an automatic whipping boy ?

Not by me. I just think he,s useless . If he was our highest rated player yesterday then I was watching another match. His 1st half was deplorable

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Not by me. I just think he,s useless . If he was our highest rated player yesterday then I was watching another match. His 1st half was deplorable

He made a big mistake with a poor pass which contributed to a Peterborough Goal, but overall he had a decent game.

I think a lot of this has to do with the frame of mind you already have tbh. Personal bias plays a massive factor as you tend to hone in on the negatives and totally ignore all of the good stuff (and vice versa, depending on who the player is)

 

[td53]

Classic this.

Last week:

Carey just plays it safe.

This week:

He gave the ball away

The number of people who wants to lay in to him on a week by week basis is unreal.

Had -

Most shots
Most on target shots
Most key passes
Most touches for anyone apart from the central defenders.
Scored a goal, created the gilt edged chance Kouassi missed, took the free kick that led to the goal.

So, you can surmise he was a) involved b) attempting to make stuff happen c) made some stuff happen.

"all I wAnT is HiM tO taKE mORe rISkS and get involved"

"WhY Is He tAKing RiSKs"

Never mind the facts, here's the scapegoat.

 

[td53]

He made a big mistake with a poor pass which contributed to a Peterborough Goal, but overall he had a decent game.

I think a lot of this has to do with the frame of mind you already have tbh. Personal bias plays a massive factor as you tend to hone in on the negatives and totally ignore all of the good stuff (and vice versa, depending on who the player is)

Yes. Well put.

 

[rease4]

Didn’t think a poor Carey pass led to any of the Peterborough goals. A poor cross field pass did lead to the penalty.
For balance he had at least three good shots, produced two good saves and scored.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Didn’t think a poor Carey pass led to any of the Peterborough goals. A poor cross field pass did lead to the penalty.
For balance he had at least three good shots, produced two good saves and scored.

Yep, sorry my mistake.... I was talking bout the pass which led to the Penalty being given away in the first half

 

[Opinionhated]

Carey for me is still learning his trade, the 1st goal was down to him and if you watch the 2nd goal his movement in the wall was poor to say the least not standing his ground. In 18 man squad he can be useful but not quite mature enough or tough enough in the 11.

 

[midfield general]

Quick question do people feel it's the player rather than the tactics? I'm probably going to get a ton of abuse for saying this but the lad plays a better game when we don't play the negative defensive tactics - where the crowd are sitting on squidgy bums as the ball is passed in front of our goalie and passed around the back. He's young and far from a finished article but definitely he and Dougall play better when it's attacking football. Just my thoughts! Quite honestly I walked out on us scoring the 2nd goal as I blame the manager for the ridiculous tactics. Whats more scarey to me is that most of the goals come form Rhodes who may be gone in January [Huddersfield are struggling and may well recall him!] - to me that spells freefall with a manager who seems utterly clueless in tactics and making substitutions such that they make any impact on the game.

Thompson conceded the first goal and had prior to that started to play well. Hes still not a fit compared to Lyons - can anyone update me on why he isnt playing?? Lavery is a winger not a forward. We start with Kouassi as a sub - absolutely tactical genuis Neil!

I was agreeing with most of what you said until the bit about Lavery being a winger, what ?

 

[midfield general]

pretty sure their first goal came from Careys awful cross field pass on the edge of our own box. i wouldn't put too much blame down to Thompson.

Loose pass from Carey, but terrible defending from Thompson.

 

[midfield general]

I actually thought Carey had a very good second half and linked play all over the pitch, the same applies to Kenny Dougall who had a good game.
The goal conceded from the free kick has to go down to Grimshaw not getting the wall right.

 

[20togo]

Loose pass from Carey, but terrible defending from Thompson.

suggest you watch it again. What else could he have done?

 

[Loco]

Didn’t think a poor Carey pass led to any of the Peterborough goals. A poor cross field pass did lead to the penalty.
For balance he had at least three good shots, produced two good saves and scored.

He was maneuvered out of position at the freekick they scored from, leaving the gap for their lad to exploit. Lightweight.

 

[Loco]

The goal conceded from the free kick has to go down to Grimshaw not getting the wall right.

Watch it again to see where the gap came from.

 

[Leyland bfc]

Watch it again to see where the gap came from.

He was your right,but grimmy should of had that side covered really as the main wall was covering the other side,still weak by Carey though

 

[Wizaard]

Don't doubt it's the rationale which kind of leads me to the general thought that critchleys thinking is a bit limiting. Rigid system, and players have to adapt, or at least be willing to adapt, eg CC at left wing back, or Carey as part of a solid flat mid three, and, trying to be solid and hence more defensive which simply encourages teams to attack us, further exposing the defensive frailty in that one area.
If the bottom of the league team could cut through us at will in the second half and we gift them a goal, and we did gift it, when we had been absolutely dominating the game, it should indicate, if normal thought processes prevail, that there is something erroneous about the way we are playing. I just don't think critchley sees it.

Cut through at will? Really?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Cut through at will? Really?

I think it’s code for being limited to one half decent chsnce fir the entire second half

 

[Tangerine Trev]

Carey did ok 2nd half

I agree with this ( ie good second half ) but he was totally anonymous for the first half . He doesn’t compete for headers, doesn’t tackle and when we were trying to press he stands in space , nowhere near their players. He’s quite tall and has bulked up , but has NO physical presence. CJ had a poor game and Oakley Booth didn’t impress either. Casey got himself in trouble for the red card. Hubby gave the ball away for the third goal. Pennington gave away the penalty and didn’t block the cross for their first goal. We were underpar.

 

[voyeur]

Critch is so obsessed with stopping the opposition that he leaves our biggest creative threat on the bench. Then brings him on and we outplay 11 men with 10, too late. He needs to book a long weekend with Holloway and his chickens. Let go of the fear. Dare to lose.

 

[td53]

Critch is so obsessed with stopping the opposition that he leaves our biggest creative threat on the bench. Then brings him on and we outplay 11 men with 10, too late. He needs to book a long weekend with Holloway and his chickens. Let go of the fear. Dare to lose.

I agree with this.

I think the problem he has is the squad we have don't play very well at contain and break football. The squad he had did but this squad are better when forced or trying to take the initiative.

He's still so averse to playing a creative central player. Carey was loads better when moved there after half time and Dembele speaks for himself. He's really resistant to playing either of them where they can best damage the opposition because, I assume it's also where they weaken us most defensively.

For me, it's deceptively simple. We've got the divisions' best finisher - make more (or even equal) quality chances as the opposition and we'll usually win. That said, I'm always wary of when fans say 'its simple' but I do think Critch keeps over thinking some aspects of what we're doing.

 

[20togo]

Critch is so obsessed with stopping the opposition that he leaves our biggest creative threat on the bench. Then brings him on and we outplay 11 men with 10, too late. He needs to book a long weekend with Holloway and his chickens. Let go of the fear. Dare to lose.

Correct. Some-one needs to ask him why is he so scared to attack teams. Start the game on the front foot instead of being obsessed with how much the opposition can hurt you. Sure, we're 7th in the league but on the whole the football has been far from entertaining and his tactics create little for the fans to get excited about. We're in L1 now, far from the standard of the Championship where plenty of good teams will put you on the back foot..

 

[voyeur]

I agree with this.

I think the problem he has is the squad we have don't play very well at contain and break football. The squad he had did but this squad are better when forced or trying to take the initiative.

He's still so averse to playing a creative central player. Carey was loads better when moved there after half time and Dembele speaks for himself. He's really resistant to playing either of them where they can best damage the opposition because, I assume it's also where they weaken us most defensively.

For me, it's deceptively simple. We've got the divisions' best finisher - make more (or even equal) quality chances as the opposition and we'll usually win. That said, I'm always wary of when fans say 'its simple' but I do think Critch keeps over thinking some aspects of what we're doing.

It's also affecting the minds of the players in those creative positions. Our tens and eights and wing backs have all been encumbered with a fear of not defending properly. And pulled into positions that reduce their attacking threat and means they do lots of worrying instead of making opposition defenders worry, as much as they could and should. Taken out of their comfort zone.

Free them up to attack, and maybe set the defence up differently. I think Critch worries about the three at the back, so the wide players are overloaded with responsibility to defend, but CJ and Dale can't defend, and it doesn't work! Were vulnerable out wide. Centre backs get pulled out there. Space in the middle. Play 4231 or something. Get Marv back to his best in a four.

Carey has had his mind mangled. He's not shit, he's being played wrongly and must feel restricted and frustrated. We are clearly better with ten men on the front foot than eleven on the back foot. Reflect on that, Critchley. And change tack.

 

[voyeur]

AND!

It's just not good enough to select Oakley Boothe ahead of Dembele, who is obviously way ahead of him at this moment in time. Critch obviously chose TOB because he's more suited to a defensive role, but it's another prime example of fear overriding the best option. We are at home, and TOB isn't yet at the level required to do the job you hope he will do. I'm surprised he didn't stick Connolly there tbh, as a defensive shield with Kenny. And put Dembele in front of them.

He definitely got it wrong Saturday.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

AND!

It's just not good enough to select Oakley Boothe ahead of Dembele, who is obviously way ahead of him at this moment in time. Critch obviously chose TOB because he's more suited to a defensive role, but it's another prime example of fear overriding the best option. We are at home, and TOB isn't yet at the level required to do the job you hope he will do. I'm surprised he didn't stick Connolly there tbh, as a defensive shield with Kenny. And put Dembele in front of them.

He definitely got it wrong Saturday.

i have to admit i quite like TOB as a player, hes a bit raw, but he has an ability to drive forward and make things happen. i dont think he had a bad game on saturday either did the simple stuff relatively well, but i think like others he had been drilled to be solid and mostly defensive.

it would have been interesting to have seen both carey and Dembelle playing in the midfield with the orders to get forward and cause havoc and to provide a modicum of pressure to Pish higher up the pitch when they had possession, possibly cancelling out their one player who had a free role wo we didn't contain.