Derby Lifeline?

hertfordseasider said:
It's only 28 million, nowhere near enough to save them, it's not even enough to pay for the ground. There will be vultures circling truing to get what they can for as little as possible. I can't see that being accepted as they will still be in the shit.
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Thought they wanted £20 million for the ground ? £8m for the rest ? I may of misread it to be fair.
 
hertfordseasider said:
It's only 28 million, nowhere near enough to save them, it's not even enough to pay for the ground. There will be vultures circling truing to get what they can for as little as possible. I can't see that being accepted as they will still be in the shit.
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The bid's for the club, not the ground presumably the ground would be a side deal.

Once the club was bought presumably the new owners would put some more cash in to keep them afloat.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The bid's for the club, not the ground presumably the ground would be a side deal.

Once the club was bought presumably the new owners would put some more cash in to keep them afloat.
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Whatever it is it doesn't sound right to me, and although it may raise hopes for Derby supporters for a few days I just get the feeling they won't ever be the owners of the club.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Whatever it is it doesn't sound right to me, and although it may raise hopes for Derby supporters for a few days I just get the feeling they won't ever be the owners of the club.
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The talk was ballpark of £50m, £28m for the club plus another £20m or so for the stadium sounds about right.

It just depends if anyone wants it more than them
 
I can’t see these buying just the club as they would also have the possible legal wranglings with boro and Wycombe.
Just doesn’t seem right to me
 
michellebutterflyhotel said:
I can’t see these buying just the club as they would also have the possible legal wranglings with boro and Wycombe.
Just doesn’t seem right to me
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There was talk at one time of the Oystons keeping the ground and land while selling the club.

Have the two entities been merged again since Sadler took over, or legally are they still two different things?
 
BBC reporting today deadline extended by a month to March to prove proof of funding the club to end of season.
 
Briggsysgonagetya said:
Theyve shown proof of funds for February and got another month of kicking the can down the road
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They need to kick it a long way down the road. All the above figures about do much for the ground, so much for the club etc. what everyone seems to forget is they owe HMRC £29 million and counting, that’s one that must be paid. To buy club ground and clear debts a prospective purchaser would be looking at £100 million or thereabouts.
 
My guess for the next delay is giving time to the preferred bidder to provide proof of funds to secure the club's future, or some such prevarication.
 
TangerineBayern said:
They probably did x3 but I'm sure they weren’t given the time or energy that Derby are being afforded, l could be wrong though😬
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I don't know mate.... I thought I remembered them being effectively given every opportunity until the authorities became frustrated that they were just being strung along. I think the difference was as well that in one Bury's, the EFL were simply being strung along with little of any hope of an outcome, whereas with Derby there seems to be a genuine interest....... I've been pretty vocal in saying that Derby should not be let of the hook, but I don't think that there's anything sinister TBH.... Bigger Clubs are more likely to attract buyers ...That's life
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I don't know mate.... I thought I remembered them being effectively given every opportunity until the authorities became frustrated that they were just being strung along. I think the difference was as well that in one Bury's, the EFL were simply being strung along with little of any hope of an outcome, whereas with Derby there seems to be a genuine interest....... I've been pretty vocal in saying that Derby should not be let of the hook, but I don't think that there's anything sinister TBH.... Bigger Clubs are more likely to attract buyers ...That's life
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Bolton definitely got an easier ride than Bury despite having considerably more debt.
 
Wizaard said:
They're still in the League...
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Sorry Wiz, you've lost me.... The EFL aren't there to force a Club unnecessarily out of business.... If a genuine buyer is out there and there are legitimate reasons to delay.

I'm afraid the harsh reality is that Bolton found a legitimate buyer, whereas Bury could have waited until the twelfth of never, but nobody would have come up with the finances.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Sorry Wiz, you've lost me.... The EFL aren't there to force a Club unnecessarily out of business.... If a genuine buyer is out there and there are legitimate reasons to delay.

I'm afraid the harsh reality is that Bolton found a legitimate buyer, whereas Bury could have waited until the twelfth of never, but nobody would have come up with the finances.
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I think it comes down to your point of attractiveness to buyers and Derby and Bolton have far more cachet on that front.
 
TangerineBayern said:
Just like Bury did, oh wait a minute they weren’t given that much time but put to the sword because they’re a small town club!
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Bury went into admin on 20/10/20 and were allowed to complete the 2020/21 season.

The difference is that after being in admin for 9 months and with no end in sight the league wasn't prepared to let them start the next campaign without funding in place.

In Derby's case it's either expel them now, in which case the results of 20+ matches get wiped, or risk them going pop later, in which case a few more matches might be wiped.

Risk v reward.
 
Derby need to be put out of business. They used dodgy finances to stay in business and cheated Midboro and Wycombe out of millions in the process. Losing them will be no great loss to football and nobody will really notice.
 
Jefflynnessongsheet said:
Derby need to be put out of business. They used dodgy finances to stay in business and cheated Midboro and Wycombe out of millions in the process. Losing them will be no great loss to football and nobody will really notice.
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Really poor post. FFS the community would be devestated. We were so close to oblivion. Can’t believe you wrote that tripe 🤬
 
They had a million added to their survival fund on deadline day when Plange was sold then immediately loaned back to them for rest of season.
 
If they survive to the end of the season they actually have a good chance of staying up, thanks to the pathetic performances of Barnsley, Reading and Peterborough. Rooney really is working miracles with the players he has, and without the deductions they'd have the same points as us.

I'm not saying it's right of course, they should have had the first points deduction imposed last season.
 
Well done to the EFL for standing firm on the debt to both Wycombe and Boro, insisting it is a football one which will have a significant outcome on the matter.
One or two on here are always quick to attack the EFL but they're spot on here, where clearly Derby gained a massive advantage on not just these two clubs but others as well.
Personally I think Mel Wotsit should simply hand over the stadium, given it was his decision to load them with debt in the first place.
www.bbc.co.uk

EFL rejects Derby bid to drop claims

The EFL says Derby County should not use insolvency laws to try to settle some of its debts and exit administration.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
I can't believe throughout all this Wayne Rooney hasn't offered to do his job without pay. It's his wages that are part of the problem. He should be setting an example and he's hardly short. I know it's the club's fault for giving him such a ridiculous contract but he goes on about how he is committed to getting Derby out of this mess. Prove it then! The best thing he could do for Derby is walk away and allow the club to rip up his contract.
 
FY4MIKEH said:
I can't believe throughout all this Wayne Rooney hasn't offered to do his job without pay. It's his wages that are part of the problem. He should be setting an example and he's hardly short. I know it's the club's fault for giving him such a ridiculous contract but he goes on about how he is committed to getting Derby out of this mess. Prove it then! The best thing he could do for Derby is walk away and allow the club to rip up his contract.
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Last I head wasn’t it Derby’s sponsor covering his wage? If not it’s ridiculous and for the good of the club should offer his resignation.
 
nameless said:
Well done to the EFL for standing firm on the debt to both Wycombe and Boro, insisting it is a football one which will have a significant outcome on the matter.
One or two on here are always quick to attack the EFL but they're spot on here, where clearly Derby gained a massive advantage on not just these two clubs but others as well.
Personally I think Mel Wotsit should simply hand over the stadium, given it was his decision to load them with debt in the first place.
www.bbc.co.uk

EFL rejects Derby bid to drop claims

The EFL says Derby County should not use insolvency laws to try to settle some of its debts and exit administration.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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That's one way of looking at it.

I'm not sure that asserting your own rules have primacy over the law of the land would fly if the Administrator chose to challenge it in court. And I am doubtful about a notional claim that hasn't even been heard constituting a debt, or even a potential one. If that is true, then we might as well all try to claim money from every club we think has done us harm in the past. Taken to its logical conclusion, it would take nine months to play a season and then a couple of years waiting for multiple tribunals to tell us where we eventually finished.

The EFL have lost control of this case - if they ever had it in the first place. if you think the way forward lies in independent regulation, they are the gift that just keep giving. But it is a real shame that a former champion club of England is being eviscerated as a result.

Edit to add : I've no idea what Rooney is being paid, or who by. But if you ask their fans what they think of him, they view him as the glue that is holding the club together, as well as something of a miracle worker with what he is managing to get that squad to achieve on the pitch. They probably feel he isn't being paid enough.
 
King Billy said:
Last I head wasn’t it Derby’s sponsor covering his wage? If not it’s ridiculous and for the good of the club should offer his resignation.
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Even if it is the sponsor paying the wage, that is money that could otherwise be going into the club.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
That's one way of looking at it.

I'm not sure that asserting your own rules have primacy over the law of the land would fly if the Administrator chose to challenge it in court. And I am doubtful about a notional claim that hasn't even been heard constituting a debt, or even a potential one. If that is true, then we might as well all try to claim money from every club we think has done us harm in the past. Taken to its logical conclusion, it would take nine months to play a season and then a couple of years waiting for multiple tribunals to tell us where we eventually finished.

The EFL have lost control of this case - if they ever had it in the first place. if you think the way forward lies in independent regulation, they are the gift that just keep giving. But it is a real shame that a former champion club of England is being eviscerated as a result.
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A claim with some validity is not necessarily a debt in accounting terms, but it is certainly something that a potential buyer will take cognizance of and that is what complicates the issue here.

Agree with the rest of your post though
 
PoolBorn said:
A claim with some validity is not necessarily a debt in accounting terms, but it is certainly something that a potential buyer will take cognizance of and that is what complicates the issue here.

Agree with the rest of your post though
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PB

the key word is "validity", isn't it? My view is that the Wycombe case is weak, and the Middlesbrough case weaker still. But expecting objectivity and balance from the EFL is a forlorn hope, I'm afraid.

I agree with you that it is a complication for the prospective bidders. But that for me makes the behaviour of the two clubs concerned even more reprehensible, because they are trying to assert de facto standing in a matter than is none of their business (i.e. the disposition of DCFC by the Administrator).
 
King Billy said:
Last I head wasn’t it Derby’s sponsor covering his wage? If not it’s ridiculous and for the good of the club should offer his resignation.
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I understand that was only during the initial player manager phase. He was on 90k+ a week. Now he's just the manager it's circa 50k - paid in full by Derby.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
PB

the key word is "validity", isn't it? My view is that the Wycombe case is weak, and the Middlesbrough case weaker still. But expecting objectivity and balance from the EFL is a forlorn hope, I'm afraid.

I agree with you that it is a complication for the prospective bidders. But that for me makes the behaviour of the two clubs concerned even more reprehensible, because they are trying to assert de facto standing in a matter than is none of their business (i.e. the disposition of DCFC by the Administrator).
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Everyone has a view. Mine is that Wycombe's is relatively strong, Middlesborough's very weak. Also I do not agree re their behaviour. Do you really think they should give up what they see as a valid claim just for the greater good of Derby County?
 
PoolBorn said:
Everyone has a view. Mine is that Wycombe's is relatively strong, Middlesborough's very weak. Also I do not agree re their behaviour. Do you really think they should give up what they see as a valid claim just for the greater good of Derby County?
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If Wycombe have a case - which I don't necessarily accept - it is against the EFL. It's the latter's failure to punish Derby in a similar way to that dished out to the Wendies that causes Wycombe's grievance. And their case is weakened somewhat by the fact that they seem to want to cherry pick the EFL decisions that they are willing to abide by. They didn't complain about the outcome of the PPG calculation that got them promoted in the first place, for example.

Middlesbrough's case is essentially that if Derby hadn't cheated, they MIGHT have got less points, and we MIGHT therefore have finished in the play-offs, and then MIGHT have won them, therefore you owe us a sum that seems to have been plucked out of thin air.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
If Wycombe have a case - which I don't necessarily accept - it is against the EFL. It's the latter's failure to punish Derby in a similar way to that dished out to the Wendies that causes Wycombe's grievance. And their case is weakened somewhat by the fact that they seem to want to cherry pick the EFL decisions that they are willing to abide by. They didn't complain about the outcome of the PPG calculation that got them promoted in the first place, for example.

Middlesbrough's case is essentially that if Derby hadn't cheated, they MIGHT have got less points, and we MIGHT therefore have finished in the play-offs, and then MIGHT have won them, therefore you owe us a sum that seems to have been plucked out of thin air.
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Okay, last bit of dialogue before I sign off.

Completely agree re Middlesborough.

Take your point about Wycombe having more of an issue with the EFL than Derby but who can blame them for going after the easier target?
 
basilrobbie3 said:
I'm not sure that asserting your own rules have primacy over the law of the land would fly if the Administrator chose to challenge it in court.
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I am sure the league would say that the administrators are free to follow the law of the land, just as the EFL is free to eject Derby from the competition.
 
PoolBorn said:
Everyone has a view. Mine is that Wycombe's is relatively strong, Middlesborough's very weak.
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The problem is that Derby met the deadline they were given by the league, and Wycombe weren't obviously disadvantaged by the overspending in the previous season, so the claim is that Wycombe should've benefited from the points deduction instead of potentially Reading because Derby did what they were told to do by the governing body.

I don't think that's remotely tenable.
 
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basilrobbie3 said:
That's one way of looking at it.

I'm not sure that asserting your own rules have primacy over the law of the land would fly if the Administrator chose to challenge it in court.
And I am doubtful about a notional claim that hasn't even been heard constituting a debt, or even a potential one.

The EFL have lost control of this case - if they ever had it in the first place. if you think the way forward lies in independent regulation, they are the gift that just keep giving. But it is a real shame that a former champion club of England is being eviscerated as a result.
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The pinch point with administration has been the HMRCs standpoint where they clearly feel they are hard done by, because that money is the stuff we spend on things like the NHS,schools and yes the civil service pensions.
That's the real issue in all of this and a national scandal to a degree, where on that single point alone successive governments have failed to act.
The EFL quite rightly (post Leicester admin) stated that football creditors have to be paid, and it was at that point legislation should have been brought in.

Interesting to read Mel Morris now trying to pull the irons out of the fire, but its that man who caused this and its his responsibility to find a solution imo. Kicking the EFL after one man's vanity project went south serves no purpose, because on the face of it Morris ticked every box as the ideal owner.
 
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