EFL : another triumph for due diligence

B

basilrobbie

Guest
This is a bewildering story, and there is clearly a lot yet to come out. But you have to ask yourself yet again :

why don't the EFL Regulations stop this?​
and how hard did they look at the key players in this story?​

www.theguardian.com

Brutal and bizarre: the story of how Wigan collapsed into administration | David Conn

On the day Au Yeung took ownership after a £41m purchase he decided not to fund the club, and an investigation is now due
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
basilrobbie said:
This is a bewildering story, and there is clearly a lot yet to come out. But you have to ask yourself yet again :

why don't the EFL Regulations stop this?​
and how hard did they look at the key players in this story?​

www.theguardian.com

Brutal and bizarre: the story of how Wigan collapsed into administration | David Conn

On the day Au Yeung took ownership after a £41m purchase he decided not to fund the club, and an investigation is now due
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Now that is a tangled Web.... Jeez
 
You're just scapegoating again BRR and the point is once again missed. Football is now ruled by money and if a minted foreign owner comes in with pots of cash,then there's nothing the EFL can do unless of course he's had a criminal conviction or been banned from owning a company.
Its just not possible unless they want a series of legal challenges and accusations of inconsistency,because just like in real life you can't tell a bad businessman until its too late.

Like loads of us said about the O's before VB arrived.
 
If Wigan failed to fulfil their fixtures and their record was expunged, we would have :

WBA P38 Pts 73
Leeds 38 72
Brentford 39 66
Forest 38 64
Fulham 39 64
Cardiff 38 60
-------------------
Derby 38 56
Blackburn 38 55
Millwall 38 55
PNE 38 51
Swansea 38 51

or something like that.
 
sadly itll need a a club to go in order for the powers that be to get their house in order.

We all know the EFL are not fit for purpose, and this maybe the catalyst for change. Not any consolation for Wigan.
 
Halifax71 said:
sadly itll need a a club to go in order for the powers that be to get their house in order.

We all know the EFL are not fit for purpose, and this maybe the catalyst for change. Not any consolation for Wigan.
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I'm still waiting for an explanation from the OP or indeed anyone as to what extra due diligence the EFL can do,bearing in mind the criteria has to be the same for all.
Wigans owners obviously had the money and met the already very rigid conditions, so short of having a crystal ball its difficult to fathom.

Like I said previously the O's were lauded by some as responsible owners for the best part of 30 years, praised further for achieving PL promotion but then lost it by taking the money. Difficult then for the EFL to do something given the fans broadly supported their tenure for so long, so like I said its purely scapegoating on the OPs behalf...again.
 
Plumbs said:
I'm still waiting for an explanation from the OP or indeed anyone as to what extra due diligence the EFL can do,bearing in mind the criteria has to be the same for all.
Wigans owners obviously had the money and met the already very rigid conditions, so short of having a crystal ball its difficult to fathom.

Like I said previously the O's were lauded by some as responsible owners for the best part of 30 years, praised further for achieving PL promotion but then lost it by taking the money. Difficult then for the EFL to do something given the fans broadly supported their tenure for so long, so like I said its purely scapegoating on the OPs behalf...again.
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Why are you being obtuse? The op raised fair and good points.
 
Halifax71 said:
sadly itll need a a club to go in order for the powers that be to get their house in order.

We all know the EFL are not fit for purpose, and this maybe the catalyst for change. Not any consolation for Wigan.
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Sadly, we've said that with the demise of Bury, the travails of Hull, Coventry, ourselves, Bolton and many more. This goes to new levels though, when the administration is within a week of takeover.
 
Seasider said:
Why are you being obtuse? The op raised fair and good points.
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I don't think I am but -and not for the first time- the OP is agenda pushing and distracting from the real issue.
Its become something of a bad habit in some circles to keep blaming the EFL for bad owners, who are drawn in by the lure of millions of pounds and fans who are easy to manipulate-as you guys know full well.

The due diligence criteria are pretty strict but no-one can legislate for subsequent poor governance at club level, and to keep blaming the EFL is tiresome,unhelpful and a distraction.

That said the whole thing is fed by subscription TV and therefore if anything the fans get the game they deserve,including a hypocrite like me who's taken on a 3 month deal so I can watch my team during the break.
 
Wizaard said:
Sadly, we've said that with the demise of Bury, the travails of Hull, Coventry, ourselves, Bolton and many more. This goes to new levels though, when the administration is within a week of takeover.
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The latest new level that is. Funny that Bury fans were lauding their owners when they were romping to L2 promotion,as were Bolton during their sustained top flight tenure and Leeds who did an erm Leeds.

Its almost cyclic now and ultimately its a game that's plagued by financial hooligans in the boardroom.
 
Must say you also have to ask about Whelan's part in this who always said he would only sell with due diligence and a guarantee fo football in Wigan for decades to come. He clearly just took the buck!
 
BFC76 said:
Must say you also have to ask about Whelan's part in this who always said he would only sell with due diligence and a guarantee fo football in Wigan for decades to come. He clearly just took the buck!
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He ran into trouble with his 'Jewish businessmen' comments where ironically they are now employing one to save the club,but the family have done more than enough to put Wigan on the map.

Just to remind the OP that the EFL are now locked in an imminent legal battle with Sheffield Wednesday and possibly Derby,in efforts to apply the rules that the clubs voted on. The board are also under direction not to become embroiled in lengthy legal action that ultimately has to be paid by member clubs,which he can have confirmed by his colleagues at the FSA.

Wednesday and the EFL are due in court this week I believe so we'll see how that one goes.
 
Seasider said:
Why are you being obtuse? The op raised fair and good points.
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Seasider

Obtuse is one word for it. 😀

If he thinks that the current rules are rigorous, and that the EFL couldn't really have done any more, then there isn't much point in debating with him.

I'm also amazed that Begbies/Krasner are involved, given what Andrew Green said about them in court. It's funny that the big critics of our own Receiver aren't all over this, isn't it?
 
basilrobbie said:
Seasider

Obtuse is one word for it. 😀

If he thinks that the current rules are rigorous, and that the EFL couldn't really have done any more, then there isn't much point in debating with him.

I'm also amazed that Begbies/Krasner are involved, given what Andrew Green said about them in court. It's funny that the big critics of our own Receiver aren't all over this, isn't it?
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I’m not at all amazed they are involved.
 
It all seems very strange.
My best guess is that it is the new owners who have not done enough due diligence, and then very quickly got cold feet when they actually took over and realised that the cheapest option from there was to bail out immediately?

The other possibility is perhaps that someone is pulling some sort of financial trick to make a killing out of the situation, but I don’t know what that could actually be?

Could the EFL have legally done more to spot and stop a wrong’un? Probably, but do we actually know enough at this stage about what they were able to find out at the time to be sure they are in the wrong?
 
glasshalffull said:
It all seems very strange.
My best guess is that it is the new owners who have not done enough due diligence, and then very quickly got cold feet when they actually took over and realised that the cheapest option from there was to bail out immediately?

The other possibility is perhaps that someone is pulling some sort of financial trick to make a killing out of the situation, but I don’t know what that could actually be?

Could the EFL have legally done more to spot and stop a wrong’un? Probably, but do we actually know enough at this stage about what they were able to find out at the time to be sure they are in the wrong?
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It’s not credible to me that someone would pay £41m pounds and immediately say “whoops, that was a mistake. I’m pulling the plug”. So I’d lean towards the thinking in your second paragraph and as alluded to in the article in the op.

As for the nature of the “financial trick” I have no idea. But who do we know has received the cash? And walked away from the club’s debts? So follow the money. Except we can’t because it’s probably back in the Caymans. Or perhaps a casino in Manila. I expect the Receivers will get to the bottom of it in due course.

Meanwhile I agree the EFL have questions to answer, and it’s not good enough just to say the current rules were complied with. If the rules aren’t adequate then they need to be changed. If that isn’t possible because the club owners/EFL members won’t agree, then that’s yet another argument for a proper regulator to take charge.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
It’s not credible to me that someone would pay £41m pounds and immediately say “whoops, that was a mistake. I’m pulling the plug”. So I’d lean towards the thinking in your second paragraph and as alluded to in the article in the op.

As for the nature of the “financial trick” I have no idea. But who do we know has received the cash? And walked away from the club’s debts? So follow the money. Except we can’t because it’s probably back in the Caymans. Or perhaps a casino in Manila. I expect the Receivers will get to the bottom of it in due course.

Meanwhile I agree the EFL have questions to answer, and it’s not good enough just to say the current rules were complied with. If the rules aren’t adequate then they need to be changed. If that isn’t possible because the club owners/EFL members won’t agree, then that’s yet another argument for a proper regulator to take charge.
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Yep. Apologies hadn’t read the Guardian article in the O/P, was just going off what I had heard on the radio, which was very sketchy (good old David Conn, again!).
So it looks like the “buyers” were probably the owners in different guise. No money changes hands, but they get to walk away from debts with 20 per cent interest due on the event of a default, and possibly anything else they could plunder, and a big bet on relegation to boot. Genius.
EFL basically just grateful there was a potential buyer as usual I suppose, and with all their fingers crossed that no one ever tried this little trick?
 
Plumbs said:
You're just scapegoating again BRR and the point is once again missed. Football is now ruled by money and if a minted foreign owner comes in with pots of cash,thenunless of course he's had a criminal conviction or been banned from owning a company.
Its just not possible unless they want a series of legal challenges and accusations of inconsistency,because just like in real life you can't tell a bad businessman until its too late.

Like loads of us said about the O's before VB arrived.
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The EFL are powerless to do anything?

And even if they can do something, they don’t!

I’m sure they went through rigorous due diligence, heading straight to the nitty gritty.

Questions like.

Do you intend to buy beef burgers for the team, if they win a game?
 
southshore said:
Good to see its another nice little earner for Begbies.

Can see another Bury scenario here, would be interesting to see who the major creditor is, and what rights they have.
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Yes. I know your a fan of Begbies.

I checked at Companies House and there are no charges, so all the creditors will be unsecured.

I’m curious to know who the buyer might be. If there is one in the current climate. And if there isn’t then a Bury scenario becomes a real possibility.
 
Looks like Mr Parry has been hoisted by his own petard!!


EFL chairman Rick Parry has been secretly recorded by a Wigan fan discussing rumours related to the club's administration.

In the recording, Parry discusses an alleged bet on the club's relegation from the Championship.

On Wednesday, Wigan became the first English professional club to enter administration since the coronavirus pandemic began.

The club's administration is currently being investigated.
 
Giro said:
The EFL are powerless to do anything?

And even if they can do something, they don’t!

I’m sure they went through rigorous due diligence, heading straight to the nitty gritty.

Questions like.

Do you intend to buy beef burgers for the team, if they win a game?
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I haven't said that but the EFL is a competition organiser not a governing body like say the FA is. It governs with the mandate given to it by the clubs who often vote for criteria that suits themselves, which btw includes allowing Peter Risdale to carry on or allow Trevor Hemmings to write off millions of Billy Davis' folly.
 
Anyway its been reported that Wigan owner Au Yeung Wai Kay was the subject of a bankruptcy order in 2003,and therefore wouldn't have satisfied the criteria for the FPP test for EFL clubs.

I thought so and just remember where you heard it first 😁
 
For the league, the only option is for new owners to be required to put a very large sum into the EFL coffers at commencement like a deposit that is personal funds, and non refundable in the event of admin. That sum then to be shared equally to every other club in the divisions in the event of an insolvency event.... they get it back if any solvent sale or transfer occurs.

It would be double the initial amount again if the existing owner manages to bring it out of administration again and still has ongoing involvement in any way shape or form. Or new owners pay the base amount and it starts again.
 
clappers said:
For the league, the only option is for new owners to be required to put a very large sum into the EFL coffers at commencement like a deposit that is personal funds, and non refundable in the event of admin. That sum then to be shared equally to every other club in the divisions in the event of an insolvency event.... they get it back if any solvent sale or transfer occurs.
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Thats an excellent idea and something for instance that was adopted by Mike Ashley with the proposed Saudi takeover.
Ashley of course gets pelters off Newcastle fans and he doesnt allow the club to slide into debt ,but their fans demand investment and parity on the field with the Liverpools etc.
Same elsewhere where fans get excited about a Leicester type foreign owner but the Far East can have some real dodgy geezers as Birmingham found out.

Similar with Bates at Leeds who was hated, but when he sold outoutthe the Arabs ran the club into the ground again and pulled 35 million out-some of which is due to be paid if the club is ever promoted.

In the meantime the Football Supporters Association still can't come up with a workable solution other than to give more power to fans,which unfortunately would be an unmitigated disaster given their poor record of wholesale engagement.
If you recall the OP was happy to praise the O's for most of their tenure,where I've actually a great deal of sympathy for that position; given the nonsense that was going on with other clubs at the time.
The TV money is the driver here and its brought in the sharks but it needs a combined effort from all the good guys rather than a lot of finger pointing.
 
Its very sad but as mentioned incredibly difficult to 'police' Im no fan of the EFL but they are not mind readers.
Clappers makes an interesting point about owners putting money into an account and while i agree certainly in principle its a nice idea but it may also stop some decent owners in the lower leagues who arent super rich?

After the Bury debacle i was going to suggest that debt cant be secured against the clubs ground but that may lead to a situation where stadium redevelopment would be virtually impossible?

It really is a minefield.
 
Dark_Side_of_the_Lune said:
If the EFL regulations are unsuitable, who is responsible for holding the EFL to account?
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The clubs at the AGM. They elect a board,appointment a chief exec and work to the mandate from the clubs.
Its not that the regs are unsuitable its just that there are always new methods of circumventing them,for instance Derby having its stadium revalued to get past financial fair play.
 
Plumbs said:
The clubs at the AGM. They elect a board,appointment a chief exec and work to the mandate from the clubs.
Its not that the regs are unsuitable its just that there are always new methods of circumventing them,for instance Derby having its stadium revalued to get past financial fair play.
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Sorry I was being rhetorical. For a moment I forgot it was a football site. My mistake 😀
 
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