Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Shearer9
- Start date
tangerine.com
Well-known member
Travel long distance now and again so wouldn't buy one until we have no other choice.
Chunkylad
Well-known member
Charge it at home. 32p KW at current rip off electric prices. (Do it overnight so fill in the morning once a week)
Battery is 95 KW and gives 240 miles in winter.
So basically fill it up for under £30 still
Even on motorways, fill it up for less than £40.
Oh and it’s 0-60 in 4.5 seconds which is rapid for a big SUV
poolseasider
Well-known member
Read this article the other day electric car on rapid charge pay as you go is 20p a mile compared to petrol 17p a mile!
www.walesonline.co.uk
Electricity costs more than petrol for drivers on long journeys, says RAC
Average price of using rapid chargers on a pay as you go basis has soared in recent months
www.walesonline.co.uk
TangerineTed
Well-known member
Just got a new fully petrol car a couple of months ago.
Replaced my self charging hybrid which was just gimmicky.
No plans whatsoever to get an electric car
Replaced my self charging hybrid which was just gimmicky.
No plans whatsoever to get an electric car
T
TheRealKingKenny
Guest
Golf GTisecond hand prices have tumbled…. We just didn’t have the infrastructure in place to keep everyone moving. Carnage at service stations during the holiday periods. I’ll stick to my ‘polar bear unfriendly‘ Golf GTi thanks
Lytham_fy8
Well-known member
How long does the battery last if you leather it?Charge it at home. 32p KW at current rip off electric prices. (Do it overnight so fill in the morning once a week)
Battery is 95 KW and gives 240 miles in winter.
So basically fill it up for under £30 still
Even on motorways, fill it up for less than £40.
Oh and it’s 0-60 in 4.5 seconds which is rapid for a big SUV
poolseasider
Well-known member
Basil Fawlty style?
911_Kirky
Well-known member
2 minutes probably….. and they’re not exactly ‘green’ to recycle either
911_Kirky
Well-known member
I love It - I’ve had loads of different cars over the years and this is my second Golf in 4 years. Great fun for the moneyGolf GTi
RUSTY_2_STANDS
Well-known member
I had one years ago. Great car to drive.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
Fill up my V6 Jag for about 90 quid. On the motorway that gives me just under 600 miles. I nearly bought a fisker a few years ago, which in my mind is the best format, electric propulsion but with a petrol or diesel generator on board for long journeys. It was a truly horrible car to drive, noisy, uncomfortable, badly built, everything rattled.Charge it at home. 32p KW at current rip off electric prices. (Do it overnight so fill in the morning once a week)
Battery is 95 KW and gives 240 miles in winter.
So basically fill it up for under £30 still
Even on motorways, fill it up for less than £40.
Oh and it’s 0-60 in 4.5 seconds which is rapid for a big SUV
Been in a few Tesla's, never driven one though, but they feel cheap. Plug in electric cars will die out in a decade in my opinion.
Gods honest truth
Well-known member
Batteries not green to produce as well .
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
Bet in a year or so you’ll see:
Myelectriccarclaim.com
Think I’ll wait until the hydrogen cars come on line.
Myelectriccarclaim.com
Think I’ll wait until the hydrogen cars come on line.
Sooty59
Well-known member
They'll go like a bomb
todayistheday
Well-known member
Will wait until ster trek transporter travel comes along.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Tesla now knocked thousands off their cars to try to increase sales, guy collected his yesterday and is furious that the same car today is £5,000 cheaper
Chunkylad
Well-known member
I know a few guys who’ve got Teslas and they are amazing batteries and service but poor cars. Particularly the entry level model.
Ours is an I pace. It’s also through work so there’s a big tax benefit of having it. Benefit in kind is still only 2% for now so very cheap motoring. Road tax for now is free.
I thought they’d move to hydrogen models but I know a couple of guys who are directors for motor manufacturers (one a exiled Pool fan) and they both tell me that current EV structure is all they’re planning.
Home charging makes it much easier (£600 fitted) and it’s a misnomer that it’s hard work to charge them. It just isn’t. As a driving experience they are a joy too.
I’ve still kept my petrol car as we both need a car for work so can be more balanced on this. I would consider being a 2 car EV household as currently it’s cheaper but it all depends where pricing goes
Chunkylad
Well-known member
It probably drops to about 160-180 miles if you go hell for leather. On a long motorway journey setting cruise at 80mph it’s probably 180-200
My mate has the Audi E-tron. He drives it more sensibly (60 on motorway which makes me want to give up life) and he’s getting more like 340-360 miles
Lytham_fy8
Well-known member
That's decent, if we ever sell the Honda it'll be well worth a look.
Olliesoffhistrolley
Well-known member
Interesting . That’s a considerable saving as long as you’re not in a rush .
TangerineTed
Well-known member
Where does he live, Bispham?
Mexboroseasider
Well-known member
I wouldn’t go full EV at the moment but bought a self charging Ford Kuga hybrid a couple of months ago in place of a diesel Q7 that was about 9 years old. So completely different cars obviously.
I liked the Q7 and there are pros and cons with both vehicles but the hybrid is much, much cheaper - tax, insurance and running costs. It’s about half the cost to fill the tank for the same distance and, depending on what I’m doing, I can get anywhere between 53 and 65 mpg. And when the little “electric driving” light comes on I know that bit of the journey is FREE!! According to the trip summary about a quarter to a third of each journey is electric.
I liked the Q7 and there are pros and cons with both vehicles but the hybrid is much, much cheaper - tax, insurance and running costs. It’s about half the cost to fill the tank for the same distance and, depending on what I’m doing, I can get anywhere between 53 and 65 mpg. And when the little “electric driving” light comes on I know that bit of the journey is FREE!! According to the trip summary about a quarter to a third of each journey is electric.
Chunkylad
Well-known member
They are getting better. So newer models charge much quicker and battery lasts longer. I’m not sure how good second hand models are - it’s a case of doing the maths and working it out?
The wife was spending £300 a month on diesel getting to work. Last month she spent £174 (last year that was £70) on electric charging it up overnight so a saving but would that be enough to make you want to buy an EV? (If you can get it through work then absolutely)
Wizaard
Well-known member
South Yorkshire
pooljimbo
Well-known member
I’ve got an R and it’s a fecking monster. Ridiculous on fuel though.
Sooty59
Well-known member
What are these EV's like towing a caravan I wonder, I shudder to think of the cost of something capable of pulling a relatively light van 1300kg. I've just googled for prices & apart from the clumsy Ssangyong they'd mostly be £45-60K compared with a Diesel/petrol with the capacity to tow at around £30K. That would take some pulling back & god knows if you needed to replace the battery pack what that would set you back. Fortunately I don't need to do anything drastic far the moment, so I'll wait & see how the infrastructure improves before making any decisions. I'm also sceptical of the overall carbon footprints of EV's v Diesel/petrol, I suspect as usual we're being hoodwinked by the marketing. The only obvious advantage I can see is no emissions at source.
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes
Well-known member
Wouldn’t bother with one at the moment. If you’re buying one for Eco reasons, that’s daft as the electric still has to come from fossil fuels.
I work with a couple of staff who’ve got one, and they’ve had a few occasions where they’ve had problems, one stranded in the lakes as the charging points didn’t match their car, another when hers wasn’t charging correctly, both brand new cars.
Then there’s the cost of replacing a battery if it gets damaged or knackered. Second hand values of the cars also become almost worthless due to the cost of the batteries.
I’d consider a hybrid, but for now will stick to my dirty diesel that does 50mpg plus on the motorway.
Edit to add, the 0-60 times are the one plus for me at the moment. Even Amazon vans are rapid off the line.
I work with a couple of staff who’ve got one, and they’ve had a few occasions where they’ve had problems, one stranded in the lakes as the charging points didn’t match their car, another when hers wasn’t charging correctly, both brand new cars.
Then there’s the cost of replacing a battery if it gets damaged or knackered. Second hand values of the cars also become almost worthless due to the cost of the batteries.
I’d consider a hybrid, but for now will stick to my dirty diesel that does 50mpg plus on the motorway.
Edit to add, the 0-60 times are the one plus for me at the moment. Even Amazon vans are rapid off the line.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
Doesn't an Audi e Tron have something like 400 hp on tap, what would be the point in buying a car like that and then drive like that.
To me electric cars are a bit like transitioning from a manual typewriter to an electric one, if the electric one made you type at half the speed with a manual. We're still waiting for the equivalent of the word processor and are a generation away from the equivalent of a PC
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
The guy on car wow did a test with electric cars, towing, with roof racks, bikes on the roof, just the driver in, with three passengers etc etc. I seem to remember that range when towing was something like 30% of it's typical range.
Sooty59
Well-known member
Car wow was brilliant when it first came out & I bought a new one for almost the same price as a year old one. I'm always very sceptical of the figures they produce regarding cars MPG range etc. Like I said I'm ok for the next 4-5 years & a lot can happen in that time.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
I'm in the middle of writing a white paper for a client on general eco issues in relation to a project we have. Transport is one aspect.
The research seems to point out that buying an 8year old range rover and running that for 6 years is massively more ecological than buying a new electric car. Then of course after six years the batteries on most electric cars will be effed. Which means even more eco destroying manufacturing of batteries.
Also the current government plans to have predominantly electric cars on the road by 2030 is ridiculous. Apart from the issue with the charging infrastructure, most western Governments have an issue with the electric capacity that can be provided, UK is currently only capable of delivering 90ish% of its current electric needs, and that will drop over the next decade as power plants are decommissioned and new ones are still waiting to be built.
Additionally to meet those government targets there has to be a three fold increase in extracting rare earth materials for the various components of electric cars.
There's no joined up thinking with regards to green issues and transport or just green issues generally. But I can state that an electric car is defo not an eco friendly choice
Chunkylad
Well-known member
All good points. As I said, it works for us. We don’t tow things or have roof racks. We charge at home and it is saving us a lot of money thanks to the ridiculous tax break the Govt gives to EV company cars. It also costs less to annual service, tax and fill every week.
Not for everyone of course
Not for everyone of course
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
It's like the first days of the mobile phone or home computer. There are tax incentives for early adoption and it sounds like Chunky has made a good decision based on his circumstances. However, for most of us, we need to wait for the technology and infrastructure to evolve sufficiently to make it a rational choice. I'm expecting to wait for about 10 years to do this - for instance I could not home charge without running cables across the pavement. Charging in public is obviously more difficult and from what I understand is about the same cost as petrol. I don't drive very often and may go car free at some point in the future instead.
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes
Well-known member
A friend of mine who’s in the know about electrics said that for the Uk to go fully EV, we’d need another 5 Hinckley power stations building at least, and even that one is years off yet. I agree, no long-term joined up thinking strategy.
Sooty59
Well-known member
You sound clued up on this subject. It seems to back up my view that we’re just playing at supposedly going eco friendly. We will invariably sleep walk into a climate disaster, if we’re not there already, whilst profits remain more important than actual the truth. I’ll hang on to my 8 year old VW diesel which should be good for at least another 5 years, having had it from new I still regard it as just that, why people can’t keep things & repair when necessary is part of the eco problem. The chuck things away culture I don’t subscribe to is what is causing a lot of unnecessary damage to the environment. Written on a 7.5 year old phone
BigHandsOliverKahn
Well-known member
Electric cars are the Betamax of motoring.
Chunkylad
Well-known member
Sounds about right. As ever we missed the boat to invest in offshore and tidal properly in the past ten years particularly tidal / hydro when we could have followed Norway’s model (we aren’t short of water, hills, tides or wind and really supplemented our power stations properly.
Even solar has a place in this country too but water and wind we’ve got plenty of.
Demand will drive supply. The forecourts will need to alter if more EVs keep arriving on the roads for those that cannot home charge
Chunkylad
Well-known member
This I agree with. We need a mass cull……
We need population down to 1 billion asap. China is trying with their lab releases
We don’t have enough resources. Yet we need to move around. Is the compulsory cull what you are proposing for all the sheep?
M
Malced
Guest
Eventually the operation of vehicles using petrol and diesel with be a thing of the past.
But we’re a very long way off that. There’s a huge transition to go through. It still seems like we’re at the early stages of that journey.
One day perhaps we’ll have electric vehicles that don’t need to be plugged in. They’ll self charge from natural light or from their own movement. The battery technology will keep on improving. At the moment it’s basic when you think of the potential for improvement.
The sooner we can move away from having fuel emissions polluting the air, the better. Especially in built up areas near schools for example. No one should have to breathe in harmful particulates when they’re outside in the ‘fresh air’.
The clean air zones are a good idea if they’re implemented for the right reasons, and if the money generated is used to further improve the environment. For example, revenues from such charges could be used by councils as grants/subsidy to help others trade in their diesel vehicle for an electric vehicle. This would help expedite the transition period.
However, call me cynical, but I suspect these zones are as much about generating income for the council to be used in any which way. If they used the funds purely to help folk move to electric vehicles, they would effectively be reducing the income from the charges, and thus their new income stream, one which they’d undoubtedly become reliant on, would dwindle away. I’m not sure they’d do that. Councils will do whatever they can to generate more income. So you will find these clean air zones and their charges will be in place for decades. The council will willingly take the charges for the poorer members of society who have been unable to move to an electric vehicle. These poorer folk will find themselves facing a double or triple whammy from a) dearer fuel due to government taxes, b) dearer car tax, and clean air zone charges. There will be a 2 tier society of drivers. The electric and the non-electric, with the latter frowned upon and eventually priced off the road.
By the way, I drove through the CAZ (clean air zone) in Bradford a few days ago. It cost £7.50. Where is that money to be used? Who knows?
The early adopters of electric vehicles face some challenges. They have the battery limitations to manage. Some folk therefore buy the electric vehicle and use it in addition to the petrol/diesel.
They use the electric vehicle for town driving, but their other vehicle for long journeys. For the latter they can fill up and go without the worry of having to recharge.
If an electric vehicle is used for long journeys it will need some planning. They’re would need to be an awareness of where the charging points are on the journey.
One issue with charging is that the leads/adaptors are not universal. I know of examples where someone has used the car for a log journey and planned their recharge stop, only to find the lead didn’t fit their car. This is incredible and incredibly stupid of the industry. It’s the whole Betamax/VHS thing happening again.
With regards to charging at home, this is fine if you live in your own house with space to park your car. But many don’t, especially in towns and cities. Many live in apartments without a dedicated parking space. Many have to park anywhere they can find a space on the street. So charging overnight is an impossibility as things stand.
In London there was a block of privately owned apartments with dedicated parking spaces for each apartment. The residents clubbed together to share the cost of installing electric charging in each parking space. They paid £25k each. It’s ok if you have that sort of money and you’re planning on staying. But if you move you face the same challenge and you might not recoup your investment.
With regards to the eco side of things, there’s some experts that say the batteries are as harmful as petrol/diesel is. That’s because they leak/emit gases which are incredibly damaging to the environment. I don’t know what the lesser of two evils is, but anyone that thinks electric vehicles are green is deluded. They may be greener but that might be a much closer call than you’re led to believe.
Anyways, I do think the dream of having clean air in towns and cities should be one we pursue. But I’m not sure we know the best way to get there as of yet. Government and councils can influence things, but time and again they get it wrong. It wasn’t so long ago the Government was pushing diesel vehicles. So don’t be surprised if in a few years they have another such realisation - I.e. that battery powered vehicles are not good for the environment. And then we’ll be facing yet another transition … and then we’ll be charging the electric car users for driving through the EFZ (electric free zone). Who knew?
But we’re a very long way off that. There’s a huge transition to go through. It still seems like we’re at the early stages of that journey.
One day perhaps we’ll have electric vehicles that don’t need to be plugged in. They’ll self charge from natural light or from their own movement. The battery technology will keep on improving. At the moment it’s basic when you think of the potential for improvement.
The sooner we can move away from having fuel emissions polluting the air, the better. Especially in built up areas near schools for example. No one should have to breathe in harmful particulates when they’re outside in the ‘fresh air’.
The clean air zones are a good idea if they’re implemented for the right reasons, and if the money generated is used to further improve the environment. For example, revenues from such charges could be used by councils as grants/subsidy to help others trade in their diesel vehicle for an electric vehicle. This would help expedite the transition period.
However, call me cynical, but I suspect these zones are as much about generating income for the council to be used in any which way. If they used the funds purely to help folk move to electric vehicles, they would effectively be reducing the income from the charges, and thus their new income stream, one which they’d undoubtedly become reliant on, would dwindle away. I’m not sure they’d do that. Councils will do whatever they can to generate more income. So you will find these clean air zones and their charges will be in place for decades. The council will willingly take the charges for the poorer members of society who have been unable to move to an electric vehicle. These poorer folk will find themselves facing a double or triple whammy from a) dearer fuel due to government taxes, b) dearer car tax, and clean air zone charges. There will be a 2 tier society of drivers. The electric and the non-electric, with the latter frowned upon and eventually priced off the road.
By the way, I drove through the CAZ (clean air zone) in Bradford a few days ago. It cost £7.50. Where is that money to be used? Who knows?
The early adopters of electric vehicles face some challenges. They have the battery limitations to manage. Some folk therefore buy the electric vehicle and use it in addition to the petrol/diesel.
They use the electric vehicle for town driving, but their other vehicle for long journeys. For the latter they can fill up and go without the worry of having to recharge.
If an electric vehicle is used for long journeys it will need some planning. They’re would need to be an awareness of where the charging points are on the journey.
One issue with charging is that the leads/adaptors are not universal. I know of examples where someone has used the car for a log journey and planned their recharge stop, only to find the lead didn’t fit their car. This is incredible and incredibly stupid of the industry. It’s the whole Betamax/VHS thing happening again.
With regards to charging at home, this is fine if you live in your own house with space to park your car. But many don’t, especially in towns and cities. Many live in apartments without a dedicated parking space. Many have to park anywhere they can find a space on the street. So charging overnight is an impossibility as things stand.
In London there was a block of privately owned apartments with dedicated parking spaces for each apartment. The residents clubbed together to share the cost of installing electric charging in each parking space. They paid £25k each. It’s ok if you have that sort of money and you’re planning on staying. But if you move you face the same challenge and you might not recoup your investment.
With regards to the eco side of things, there’s some experts that say the batteries are as harmful as petrol/diesel is. That’s because they leak/emit gases which are incredibly damaging to the environment. I don’t know what the lesser of two evils is, but anyone that thinks electric vehicles are green is deluded. They may be greener but that might be a much closer call than you’re led to believe.
Anyways, I do think the dream of having clean air in towns and cities should be one we pursue. But I’m not sure we know the best way to get there as of yet. Government and councils can influence things, but time and again they get it wrong. It wasn’t so long ago the Government was pushing diesel vehicles. So don’t be surprised if in a few years they have another such realisation - I.e. that battery powered vehicles are not good for the environment. And then we’ll be facing yet another transition … and then we’ll be charging the electric car users for driving through the EFZ (electric free zone). Who knew?
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
The batteries are massively damaging. From the extraction point to the disposal. There's a UK company though looking at sodium based batteries, which don't have anything like the environmental footprint and can be extracted from almost everywhere. They are a couple of years from proper production and are comparable in terms of power and storage but longevity might be an issue. That's the kind of thing the UK should be investing in not pumping money into more worthless financial instrumentsEventually the operation of vehicles using petrol and diesel with be a thing of the past.
But we’re a very long way off that. There’s a huge transition to go through. It still seems like we’re at the early stages of that journey.
One day perhaps we’ll have electric vehicles that don’t need to be plugged in. They’ll self charge from natural light or from their own movement. The battery technology will keep on improving. At the moment it’s basic when you think of the potential for improvement.
The sooner we can move away from having fuel emissions polluting the air, the better. Especially in built up areas near schools for example. No one should have to breathe in harmful particulates when they’re outside in the ‘fresh air’.
The clean air zones are a good idea if they’re implemented for the right reasons, and if the money generated is used to further improve the environment. For example, revenues from such charges could be used by councils as grants/subsidy to help others trade in their diesel vehicle for an electric vehicle. This would help expedite the transition period.
However, call me cynical, but I suspect these zones are as much about generating income for the council to be used in any which way. If they used the funds purely to help folk move to electric vehicles, they would effectively be reducing the income from the charges, and thus their new income stream, one which they’d undoubtedly become reliant on, would dwindle away. I’m not sure they’d do that. Councils will do whatever they can to generate more income. So you will find these clean air zones and their charges will be in place for decades. The council will willingly take the charges for the poorer members of society who have been unable to move to an electric vehicle. These poorer folk will find themselves facing a double or triple whammy from a) dearer fuel due to government taxes, b) dearer car tax, and clean air zone charges. There will be a 2 tier society of drivers. The electric and the non-electric, with the latter frowned upon and eventually priced off the road.
By the way, I drove through the CAZ (clean air zone) in Bradford a few days ago. It cost £7.50. Where is that money to be used? Who knows?
The early adopters of electric vehicles face some challenges. They have the battery limitations to manage. Some folk therefore buy the electric vehicle and use it in addition to the petrol/diesel.
They use the electric vehicle for town driving, but their other vehicle for long journeys. For the latter they can fill up and go without the worry of having to recharge.
If an electric vehicle is used for long journeys it will need some planning. They’re would need to be an awareness of where the charging points are on the journey.
One issue with charging is that the leads/adaptors are not universal. I know of examples where someone has used the car for a log journey and planned their recharge stop, only to find the lead didn’t fit their car. This is incredible and incredibly stupid of the industry. It’s the whole Betamax/VHS thing happening again.
With regards to charging at home, this is fine if you live in your own house with space to park your car. But many don’t, especially in towns and cities. Many live in apartments without a dedicated parking space. Many have to park anywhere they can find a space on the street. So charging overnight is an impossibility as things stand.
In London there was a block of privately owned apartments with dedicated parking spaces for each apartment. The residents clubbed together to share the cost of installing electric charging in each parking space. They paid £25k each. It’s ok if you have that sort of money and you’re planning on staying. But if you move you face the same challenge and you might not recoup your investment.
With regards to the eco side of things, there’s some experts that say the batteries are as harmful as petrol/diesel is. That’s because they leak/emit gases which are incredibly damaging to the environment. I don’t know what the lesser of two evils is, but anyone that thinks electric vehicles are green is deluded. They may be greener but that might be a much closer call than you’re led to believe.
Anyways, I do think the dream of having clean air in towns and cities should be one we pursue. But I’m not sure we know the best way to get there as of yet. Government and councils can influence things, but time and again they get it wrong. It wasn’t so long ago the Government was pushing diesel vehicles. So don’t be surprised if in a few years they have another such realisation - I.e. that battery powered vehicles are not good for the environment. And then we’ll be facing yet another transition … and then we’ll be charging the electric car users for driving through the EFZ (electric free zone). Who knew?
TwelveAngryMen
Well-known member
If you are a business owner or have a company car from a tax perspective buying an EV is a no brainer
The net cost is less than half the gross as a business owner with 2% BIK
The net cost is less than half the gross as a business owner with 2% BIK
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
The problem is that an awful lot of people can't charge at home because they don't have driveways, so what are they supposed to do?
Chunkylad
Well-known member
That’s a fair point. As I said, I’m not here to argue black or white. For me it works and you can’t make a sweeping statement like the o/p did about EV cars.
As demand does rise the Forecourts will need to change to accommodate less petrol pumps and more EV chargers.
Equally it wasn’t that long ago my car couldn’t get a fill up due to panic buying at the petrol station whilst the wife drove past the queues of people who couldn’t get petrol in her EV.
Well of course that’s what it’s a about isn’t it ? Money. Thanks for being so honest.