Fed up of this agenda against Sadler and Mansford

20togo said:
I'm sure he won't be the one identifying the players we need, that's pretty obvious. But he is the one responsible for getting deals over the line. He knows the budget, his due diligence should know who the crocks are. So yep, in my view he's far from blameless. In fact, in my view there's a helluva lot of blame put at his door. For gods sake, due diligence done on all the crocks we've signed and the same due diligence on Colby Bishop who we didn't sign because he's a crock. Been given the tag "bullshit" for what seems a pretty good reason.
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Well I disagree with that analysis because one person can't be expected to do everything and he is in the middle of a hell of a lot of activity and pulled in all sorts of directions - and he relies on the medical people for injury analysis so that's not on him. You seem to be another that is willing to pick out one bloke and blame him for group failure. It's down to money at the end of the day and over reaching. W don't have enough people with all the requisite time and skills to cover everything the way things need to be done, and BM is copping the blame. From some people.
 
voyeur said:
Well I disagree with that analysis because one person can't be expected to do everything and he is in the middle of a hell of a lot of activity and pulled in all sorts of directions - and he relies on the medical people for injury analysis so that's not on him. You seem to be another that is willing to pick out one bloke and blame him for group failure. It's down to money at the end of the day and over reaching. W don't have enough people with all the requisite time and skills to cover everything the way things need to be done, and BM is copping the blame. From some people.
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not said anywhere that he has to do everything. But he is responsible for getting contracts signed, Our recruitment has ben nothing more than a shambles this season and that's on the managerial front as well. All of this done with the approval of the CEO. And you talk about the injury analysis of the medical people. So you are convinced that the medical people are right in that Colby Bishop is a crock? I'd have a look at the number of games he's played these last four seasons. Is that a crock of shite or is it more bullshit from our CEO. Perhaps, you're happy with how this season has gone and everything is just down to bad luck, eh!
 
20togo said:
not said anywhere that he has to do everything. But he is responsible for getting contracts signed, Our recruitment has ben nothing more than a shambles this season and that's on the managerial front as well. All of this done with the approval of the CEO. And you talk about the injury analysis of the medical people. So you are convinced that the medical people are right in that Colby Bishop is a crock? I'd have a look at the number of games he's played these last four seasons. Is that a crock of shite or is it more bullshit from our CEO. Perhaps, you're happy with how this season has gone and everything is just down to bad luck, eh!
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You'll be arguing from your coffin about the lack of crying and the noise of the soil hitting it.

Yeah, course I'm happy. I love us getting relegated. It's all part of the fun innit? Enjoy it while you can. It doesn't happen too often.

Colby Bishop was hell bent on going to Pompey. I've no idea what the medical people thought but they could have been wrong and none of them are called Ben Mansford to my knowledge.
 
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To say a CEO is blameless when the organisation they are in goes backwards is the other side of Brian Clough’s view of players only being offside if ‘interfering with play’ - ‘..if my players aren’t interfering with play they’re not getting paid’.

If he has no responsibility here - what’s he being paid for?

There is a reason why he is paid as much as he is - it’s for being responsible for the activities of the staff of the club. How will it be different next season?

Fans are effectively investors in a football club through the tickets and merchandise they buy. It is totally acceptable for them to voice their concerns over the running of their club in a non-abusive or threatening way.

It’s not personal - it’s purely business!
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Our gates will drop but if the prices are more competitive then the drop may not be that much

I'm saying I don't understand the argument for high prices "just because other team do it"
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Fair enough. I see it more as meeting the market rate. When we go away we are never paying the £20 frequently spoken about on here, and often pay around the £30 mark.
 
voyeur said:
You'll be arguing from your coffin about the lack of crying and the noise of the soil hitting it.

Yeah, course I'm happy. I love us getting relegated. It's all part of the fun innit? Enjoy it while you can. It doesn't happen too often.

Colby Bishop was hell bent on going to Pompey. I've no idea what the medical people thought but they could have been wrong and none of them are called Ben Mansford to my knowledge.
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I find your opening remark deeply offensive voyeur. Duly noted.
 
20togo said:
Not really got inolved in this thread or debate. However, my view is that I still fully back Sadler. Yep, as said the buck stops with him but does it really? He's appointed a CEO in Mansford and as the CEO i don't believe he has to go to Sadler to sign off everything to do with running the club, especially when it comes to players contracts and budgets. For me, the blame for our poor record this season in getting deals done, and giving crocks contracts has to stop and end at Mansford. So again for me, the only decision Sadler has to consider is whether Mansford has spent the owners money wisely and my view would be a resounding no. So on that basis, Mansford would be gone, Yep, I appreciate that there could be a ton of things Mansford is doing well behind the scenes with off field plans and developments but I support the football team and that is my no 1 concern. Every thing else is secondary, no matter how important they are.
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The voice of reason on this issue…. 100% in agreement. I can’t believe anyone can reasonably conclude otherwise. I just cannot believe he is still in situ.
 
voyeur said:
You two have loads of history too.

Remarkable attempts to grab the moral high ground!
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there was nothing offensive, abusive or personal aimed at you in any of my posts voy. I simply expressed my views on the running of our club. Yet the mods allowed your offensive remarks to remain.
 
20togo said:
there was nothing offensive, abusive or personal aimed at you in any of my posts voy. I simply expressed my views on the running of our club. Yet the mods allowed your offensive remarks to remain.
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Maybe they understood where I was coming from? They took the word ** out though. For some reason. 😆
 
voyeur said:
Maybe they understood where I was coming from? They took the word ** out though. For some reason. 😆
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my first post on this yesterday wasn't even addressed or in reply to you. It was a stand alone post offering my thoughts. You disagreed with it and I replied again without any abuse or any personal comments. Even now you seem to want to persist.
 
20togo said:
my first post on this yesterday wasn't even addressed or in reply to you. It was a stand alone post offering my thoughts. You disagreed with it and I replied again without any abuse or any personal comments. Even now you seem to want to persist.
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You have an aggressive argumentative tone and always have, and it's weird that you should pick me up about persisting given your track record. You could start an argument in empty room, and not stop til you fell asleep with exhaustion.

My brother asked me recently who is still on AVFTT from his spell on here 20 years ago. I mentioned a few and he said "is 20s the guy who just argued all the time?"

Does it ever occur to you that this is how you are perceived? I'm trying to flag it up for your benefit, so you don't take it to your grave. Oops, sorry.
 
voyeur said:
You have an aggressive argumentative tone and always have, and it's weird that you should pick me up about persisting given your track record. You could start an argument in empty room, and not stop til you fell asleep with exhaustion.

My brother asked me recently who is still on AVFTT from his spell on here 20 years ago. I mentioned a few and he said "is 20s the guy who just argued all the time?"

Does it ever occur to you that this is how you are perceived? I'm trying to flag it up for your benefit, so you don't take it to your grave. Oops, sorry.
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Yeh you mention Chopper. He was one who argued all the time as well. He had some right spats with Born in the Fifties. I see you are still coming out with yor snide comments.
 
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Insider said:
That's the way I imagine it works. Appy might have said I want Bridcutt, for example, and Ben trusted him, and backed him but someone should have done a bit more due dilligence.
The recruitment team will however be responsible for most of the deals and they certainly should do the due diligence etc.
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Presumably Bridcutt would've gone through a medical to prove his fitness, and was signed off as fit by the medical staff, at which point what more due diligence could BM have done?

Also, it was a gamble, if it had paid off, and we'd got a decent number of games from him, then maybe we wouldn't be looking at L1 for next season, in the end it didn't work out, but that's the nature of a gamble.

The bigger question is why someone wasn't signed in his position when the transfer window was open, presumably an unusually large number of potential transfers broke down for whatever reason.
 
20togo said:
Yeh you mention Chopper. He was one who argued all the time as well. He had some right spats with Born in the Fifties. I see you are still coming out with yor snide comments.
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Chopper was nothing like you in any shape or form. And he didn't carry on arguing in a conpletely humourless manner for over 20 years.
 
One of the big issues was Mansford have those interviews giving it the big one about budgets and plans etc, as well as constantly banging on about how godlike Sadler is. He boxed himself into a corner.
I still support Sadler and think we’d struggle to get a better owner. We don’t need a rockstar CEO, just someone to quietly go about the job and leave the public facing stuff to the press team.
 
AngelBFC said:
Memphis

I agree with you 100 per cent

Critch leaving suddenly and unexpectedly messed things up combined with injuries

SS and BM want the best for the club make no mistake
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Give me a break. Managers leave clubs all the time and life goes on. Over the course of a season the table doesn’t lie. Sadler and Mansford have been inept.
 
20togo said:
I'm sure he won't be the one identifying the players we need, that's pretty obvious. But he is the one responsible for getting deals over the line. He knows the budget, his due diligence should know who the crocks are. So yep, in my view he's far from blameless. In fact, in my view there's a helluva lot of blame put at his door. For gods sake, due diligence done on all the crocks we've signed and the same due diligence on Colby Bishop who we didn't sign because he's a crock. Been given the tag "bullshit" for what seems a pretty good reason.
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And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
 
Martonmosser said:
And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
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I've not criticised Sadler, rather the opposite.
 
Martonmosser said:
And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
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Martonmosser said:
And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
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"...we really expecting Simon to keep us...in the Championship...alone?"

Why did he not appoint a joint owner, as I urged long before relegation loomed?
 
Martonmosser said:
And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
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Yes to be honest

You don't buy a football club unless you are willing to fund it
 
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Insider said:
That's the way I imagine it works. Appy might have said I want Bridcutt, for example, and Ben trusted him, and backed him but someone should have done a bit more due dilligence.
The recruitment team will however be responsible for most of the deals and they certainly should do the due diligence etc.
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I'm sure MA did say he wanted LB. I'd be pretty damn sure he said he wanted others of that ilk in summer too (logic says so). So why sign LB at that time? Cheap, desperation and a huge gamble.

I can't buy into the notion stated by sum that BM is squeaky clean when it come to blame. He has people under him, like the recruitment team and he is the first point of responsibility. Bluntly put, if BM isn't to blame then he shouldn't be in the 300k job.
 
Martonmosser said:
I was sticking up for Mansford. Players won’t come here on that average wage unfortunately
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I wouldn’t if the CEO was getting paid double of what I was being offered 👍🏼

Course we are going to struggle to get players of the quality we need on our budget, but then our CEO should be paid like we pay our players.

We’re paying low wages for players but high for our CEO.

I can’t work this one out.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
And you don’t stay the The Championship paying players half the amount any other team does unless you have a bloody good plan as to how you are going to play that you then stick to
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Absolutely agree. It’s also important that we do not get sucked into paying wages that could leave us as a financial basket case. Some posters on here are great at spending other people’s money. A longer term commitment is also important- we do need to move forward on the training ground and east stand. This is potentially where we can start to generate extra income. There is never a good time to divert money away from the playing squad but we know we have to do it. It might mean short term pain for long term gain.
 
SeasiderExile said:
Absolutely agree. It’s also important that we do not get sucked into paying wages that could leave us as a financial basket case. Some posters on here are great at spending other people’s money. A longer term commitment is also important- we do need to move forward on the training ground and east stand. This is potentially where we can start to generate extra income. There is never a good time to divert money away from the playing squad but we know we have to do it. It might mean short term pain for long term gain.
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How do we generate extra income from an East Stand by being in a lower division and how do we generate an extra income from the training ground where it's been said it's exclusively for the players ie not the general public. I've said many times that if you don't get the short term strategy right then it's gonna impact on the long term strategy. And I don't get your point about diverting money away from the playing squad. Thought it had been made perfectly clear that the money for the the new stand and training ground was already earmarked/set aside and that didn't impact on the budget for the playing squad. Are you suggesting that is not the case?
 
SeasiderExile said:
Absolutely agree. It’s also important that we do not get sucked into paying wages that could leave us as a financial basket case. Some posters on here are great at spending other people’s money. A longer term commitment is also important- we do need to move forward on the training ground and east stand. This is potentially where we can start to generate extra income. There is never a good time to divert money away from the playing squad but we know we have to do it. It might mean short term pain for long term gain.
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Stadium's and training grounds don't win football matches

Footballers do
 
20togo said:
How do we generate extra income from an East Stand by being in a lower division and how do we generate an extra income from the training ground where it's been said it's exclusively for the players ie not the general public. I've said many times that if you don't get the short term strategy right then it's gonna impact on the long term strategy. And I don't get your point about diverting money away from the playing squad. Thought it had been made perfectly clear that the money for the the new stand and training ground was already earmarked/set aside and that didn't impact on the budget for the playing squad. Are you suggesting that is not the case?
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You are right - I think the decision - if correct - to have a training ground that is exclusively for the players is wrong. That would diminish income generation. I think it should be run in a way similar to Fleetwood’s which appears to generate income ( we should mirror the model but on a larger scale) . In terms of diverting money from the playing squad - I’m not saying “all of it” but I think there is a need for some recognition that at some point there may need to be a different redistribution of the total budget. As I said there is never a perfect time to do this but we have to bite the bullet. The ability of the east stand to generate extra money will depend on its facilities including those available on non-match. Some - a loud but small minority - will always argue that all the money needs to go into the playing squad as the expense of any development of infrastructure. That is an understandable emotional statement but it will simply hurt the club. That position will set the club up for years of decline and unfulfilled potential . I’m not sure that is a good long term strategy for the club.
 
Martonmosser said:
And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
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To be fair if that’s true then we’re fucked as a fan I would never took over the club if I didn’t have the money to be the best we can be piss poor and if that’s the case he needs to get a investor along side him league 2 wages them
 
SeasiderExile said:
You are right - I think the decision - if correct - to have a training ground that is exclusively for the players is wrong. That would diminish income generation. I think it should be run in a way similar to Fleetwood’s which appears to generate income ( we should mirror the model but on a larger scale) . In terms of diverting money from the playing squad - I’m not saying “all of it” but I think there is a need for some recognition that at some point there may need to be a different redistribution of the total budget. As I said there is never a perfect time to do this but we have to bite the bullet. The ability of the east stand to generate extra money will depend on its facilities including those available on non-match. Some - a loud but small minority - will always argue that all the money needs to go into the playing squad as the expense of any development of infrastructure. That is an understandable emotional statement but it will simply hurt the club. That position will set the club up for years of decline and unfulfilled potential . I’m not sure that is a good long term strategy for the club.
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thanks for the reply. Not to say that a stand and a training ground aren't important for the long term future but I really have to question your last couple of sentences.I'm not sure hoe being in one of the top two divisions means decline and unfulfilled potential. The higher we are, the more income we will get not only from our fan base but also monies received from the EFL and various sponsors. In my view, our relegation is awful and that could very well cause the years of decline and unfulfilled potential that you refer to. Failure to get back up quickly and there really is no guarantee that we will just adds to the problems.
 
20togo said:
thanks for the reply. Not to say that a stand and a training ground aren't important for the long term future but I really have to question your last couple of sentences.I'm not sure hoe being in one of the top two divisions means decline and unfulfilled potential. The higher we are, the more income we will get not only from our fan base but also monies received from the EFL and various sponsors. In my view, our relegation is awful and that could very well cause the years of decline and unfulfilled potential that you refer to. Failure to get back up quickly and there really is no guarantee that we will just adds to the problems.
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Investing in the playing side is like maintaining your house- you don't do it and it costs you a hell of a lot more. In this case a division, £7m in revenue and a devaluation of SS's asset.

BM not responsible? Pull the other one.
 
Fair point - I’m not saying being in the top two divisions is unimportant but without a sounder basis for future income generation- and an open training ground ( in terms of income generation and nurturing sellable talent) )and a multi facility east stand that can generate money on non-match days) I’m not sure we can compete in the championship in a sustainable way. That’s why we need investment in the infrastructure. I would rather the club build the financial foundation and take a short term hit rather than be a club like Rotherham or Peterborough who come up and then go back down every few seasons. I agree that league 1 will but nearly as tough.- I think 7 clubs in that league got over 13k crowds yesterday and some edging towards 30k. Thank god it’s not me that has to make the decision 🤣
 
SeasiderExile said:
Fair point - I’m not saying being in the top two divisions is unimportant but without a sounder basis for future income generation- and an open training ground ( in terms of income generation and nurturing sellable talent) )and a multi facility east stand that can generate money on non-match days) I’m not sure we can compete in the championship in a sustainable way. That’s why we need investment in the infrastructure. I would rather the club build the financial foundation and take a short term hit rather than be a club like Rotherham or Peterborough who come up and then go back down every few seasons. I agree that league 1 will but nearly as tough.- I think 7 clubs in that league got over 13k crowds yesterday and some edging towards 30k. Thank god it’s not me that has to make the decision 🤣
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As I've said earlier, there is no guarantee that relegation is just a short term hit and that's my worry. As you say there are some big hitters in L1.
 
Martonmosser said:
And who knows if that budget is substantial when it comes to signing these players? Did you see Kieron McGuires piece the other day? Our average wage for last year was £3817 a week, the next lowest was Hull on £5900 and then there’s every other team in the division except Barnsley, Luton and Coventry on over £10,000 a week including the biggest who were Fulham on £41994…… we’re miles behind on so many fronts, are we really expecting Simon to keep us going in the Championship with his money alone?
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Do you have a link to that piece MM?
 
20togo said:
No, I know you won't. Why don't you just move on rather than persist in having a go at me. On a thread that it was you who started the personal abuse.
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I just over reacted to your regular conversational style which everyone knows about cos it's a regular occurrence.

Why don't you do something about the way you communicate?
 
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