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philmus

Well-known member
Forest issue statement saying 3 penalty decisions went against them against Everton today - because the VAR official Stuart Atwell is a Luton fan. They say they tried to get him taken off the fixture - and “we are now considering our options”
 
This could get ugly for the pgmol as forest have basically accused an official of bias. However that would mean that its taken seriously and I dont see that happening. It will more likely result in Forest getting in trouble.
 
I'm guessing he wasn't changed because referees and their bodies shouldn't be bullied into things on the basis of people accusing them of not being impartial when they are. The EPL and the FA need to back the referees here and back them properly. Accuse them of being shit all you want, but accusing them of being bent is totally out of order.
 
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straightatthewall said:
I'm guessing he wasn't changed because referees and their bodies shouldn't be bullied into things on the basis of people accusing them of being impartial when they're not. The EPL and the FA need to back the referees here and back them properly. Accuse them of being shit all you want, but accusing them of being bent is totally out of order.
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Is it not just a bad idea to have an official who supports a team that benefits one way or the other off the result? Imagine if our ref agaist Reading is an Oxford fan, it shouldn't be allowed. If nothing else just to stop the accusations from even starting.
 
So the ref didn't give them, so if var was scrapped there would be no change.

And then the var didn't see anything to change that opinion.
 
I bleed Tangerine said:
Is it not just a bad idea to have an official who supports a team that benefits one way or the other off the result? Imagine if our ref agaist Reading is an Oxford fan, it shouldn't be allowed. If nothing else just to stop the accusations from even starting.
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Players play against teams they support all the time. Managers coach against teams they support. Kenny Dalgleish was a Rangers fan who became Celtic's greatest player. Jack Charlton, one of England's greats, managed another country against England.

I don't recall anyone ever questioning the professionalism or integrity of players or coaches. So why is it OK to question the integrity and professionalism of professional officials?
 
I bleed Tangerine said:
Is it not just a bad idea to have an official who supports a team that benefits one way or the other off the result? Imagine if our ref agaist Reading is an Oxford fan, it shouldn't be allowed. If nothing else just to stop the accusations from even starting.
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I can see where you’re coming from but if they can’t trust officials to be impartial they shouldn’t employ them. And how far into their background should they go. Their parents or partners, employers or even best friends. There are so many things that could affect a persons impartiality.
 
AND Burnley play Nottingham Forest on the final day of the PL season. IF the points deduction is NOT resolved . Where would that leave Burnley. If they are still in with a chance of staying up then each club needs to know where it stands. They more than likely would have been relegated by then but being only three points from safety its not impossible. They do travel to Old Trafford next weekend . plainly Forest are not happy with the referee v Everton. Everyone Needs to know where they are.
 
traffordtang said:
I can see where you’re coming from but if they can’t trust officials to be impartial they shouldn’t employ them. And how far into their background should they go. Their parents or partners, employers or even best friends. There are so many things that could affect a persons impartiality.
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Totally agree, however in a game where so much is at stake and an observation has been made prior to the match then common sense says the official should be replaced to avoid anything like this.
 
straightatthewall said:
Players play against teams they support all the time. Managers coach against teams they support. Kenny Dalgleish was a Rangers fan who became Celtic's greatest player. Jack Charlton, one of England's greats, managed another country against England.

I don't recall anyone ever questioning the professionalism or integrity of players or coaches. So why is it OK to question the integrity and professionalism of professional officials?
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That happens all the time. How many managers/players get called agent by fans. Mostly it's said jokingly, but sometimes people are dealy serious with it.
 
IMO Forest were hard done by. Both tackles were penalties and the handball is very similar to the one given in the Cov v Manu semifinal. We’d be fuming . What was the VAR doing ? Watching a different channel ? UTMP .
 
straightatthewall said:
I'm guessing he wasn't changed because referees and their bodies shouldn't be bullied into things on the basis of people accusing them of not being impartial when they are. The EPL and the FA need to back the referees here and back them properly. Accuse them of being shit all you want, but accusing them of being bent is totally out of order.
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I think the learning point is, that to avoid this happening, officials should not be involved at all with clubs they support. It puts the official at risk of this sort of accusation. We don’t have officials from the same country as competing clubs / nations in European or World matches.

PGMOL got this badly wrong, putting Atwell in that position.

Cheating, that’s a serious allegation. They will have to answer how he missed 2 clear fouls and a handball, that was more obvious than the one in the Cov v Man U semi.
 
VAR is crap because of the rules surrounding whether a decision can be overruled that needs sorting. The offside rule needs making very simple or scrapping. As for the VAR officials Jesus a AVFTT collective would be far better. Or just scrap it completely.
 
2 nailed on pens for me the 3rd was at least a 50/50 decision and they got absolutely nothing.

Something needs doing as decisions like this cost clubs promotion or as in this case relegation.

Watching the Wolves v Arsenal game over the weekend the commentator let it slip Arsenal have had 13 penalties this season far more than anyone else in the premier league coincidence? 🤷‍♂️
 
They are a club whose points deduction goes to appeal this week ; opening up this can of worms now is not going to endear them to anyone at the EPL

Our game as a whole cannot afford to make referees and those who support them a target for abuse. There is enough of that going on at grassroots level already. It's a stupid and irresponsible thing for Forest to do - let's face it, we only have VAR in the EPL in any case because the clubs voted for it.

I hope the FA bring disrepute charges against them, personally.
 
It’s funny how football is the one sport that regularly gets significant decisions wrong using VAR.

It’s also strange how other sports allow broadcasting of discussions between the ref and his video counterpart - but football doesnt

You would nearly think some of those involved had a separate agenda other than transparency and getting decisions right….

Obviously this couldn’t be the case….
 
hampshire_exile said:
It’s funny how football is the one sport that regularly gets significant decisions wrong using VAR.

It’s also strange how other sports allow broadcasting of discussions between the ref and his video counterpart - but football doesnt

You would nearly think some of those involved had a separate agenda other than transparency and getting decisions right….

Obviously this couldn’t be the case….
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Good point. Both cricket and rugby (both codes) have miked up referees with a feed to the broadcaster. In football, they don't even show it on the screens.
 
Tangerinenick said:
It’s Everton - they never get relegated.
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They are condemned however to rinse and repeat the same season in the EPL for ever more. It’s like watching Groundhog Day and from a footballing point of view quite funny.

However the state of their debts is beyond mind boggling. At some point they are going to go into administration. I don’t wish that on any club but they are a classic example of mismanagement.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
They are a club whose points deduction goes to appeal this week ; opening up this can of worms now is not going to endear them to anyone at the EPL

Our game as a whole cannot afford to make referees and those who support them a target for abuse. There is enough of that going on at grassroots level already. It's a stupid and irresponsible thing for Forest to do - let's face it, we only have VAR in the EPL in any case because the clubs voted for it.

I hope the FA bring disrepute charges against them, personally.
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I completely agree they shouldn't be targets for abuse, but we are at a point where that fear of abuse has completely removed any transparency.

Criticism of the refereeing performance leads to fines; this has stifled discussion of faults (how many times have we heard a coach after a game saying "I want to speak about the referee but I can't"?), and led to latent hostility from clubs towards referees, fans to referees, even ex-referees towards current referees.

That hostility can only remain latent for so long, until it blows up like it has yesterday for Forest (and at other times this season other clubs). The only cure for this is a more open approach from PGMOL and the FA, and a willingness to admit mistakes when they are made. Pulling up the drawbridge isn't sustainable.

It's said that the refereeing group review each weekend's decisions after the games are concluded. Maybe publishing these review notes would be a good first step in rebuilding some trust.

(aside: I'm also uneasy about the situation the media find themselves in; if they report too much about refereeing deficiencies, they're angering the sport which gives them access, and based on the reaction of the punditry to Forest's Tweet yesterday, some are very clearly being pressured to take the party line)
 
Attwell, the VAR in the studio, himself CHOSE not to get involved with the ref. The first time was poor judgement, the second compounded it but the third as well? Did Forest antagonise him by calling his integrity into question before the match? There are several unknown factors operative in this, but Forest have done themselves no favours here.
 
Attwell with his football allegiance already disclosed should not have been appointed for this match, as in the same vein the Nobber ref with us.
 
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