Food bank exploiters

[Ollygon]

We keep hearing about how record numbers are ‘having to’ use them. And how that’s such a shameful indictment on our country.

However I’m not prepared to accept that at face value. I’m sure the figures are inflated by many who exploit them without real need. They’re taking advantage so they can use their income on other things such as a social life and non-essentials.

This is a problem because the food bank donations are on the decrease when demand is getting higher and higher. So these chancers are taking food which then means there’s less for the genuine.

The issue has arisen partly cos the media and unions have helped normalise the idea and take away any stigma there might have been. Stigma isn’t a good thing, but we are seeing the polar opposite where the foodbanks are becoming a badge of honour for those that want to moan about the cost of living.

The media and unions are forever saying that teachers, nhs workers and train workers etc are using foodbanks. So over time that’s become more and more of a thing. People with significant incomes are taking food and are happy to tell others about it and thus it becomes more and more normalised.

I have a mate who goes. He is on various benefits but has lots of disposable income. He goes to the pub regularly. He eats at weatherspoons regularly. Yet he all too willingly goes to a foodbank. He has absolutely no need to.

I had a couple of ladies in my cab last week. They were glammed up for a night out in Poulton. They were teachers or some sort of school workers. On the way to poulton they were talking about the cost of electric and gas. I picked them up at lovely expensive looking houses. One said she’d initially refused to pay her gas and electric and joined in with the campaign to refuse to pay. However she went on to say she’d thought better of it and after a while paid the arrears of £500 or so. She then said ‘everything is so expensive. I’ve had to use the foodbank.’ Then followed a conversion about the foodbank and what she got as part of a typical food goody bag.
Anyways, they arrived in poulton, paid the £13 fare, and headed off for their night out. I found it shocking.

Now don’t get me wrong, there’s a need for foodbanks BUT they should only be for the genuine who have no other means to feed themselves and their families.

I very much doubt there’s any checks done by the foodbanks to weed out the chancers. There was a person on sky seen using the foodbank and then getting in their 4x4 vehicle and driving away. Poor thing. Well I suppose the cost of their car lease and fuel etc has made them so desperate.

I think there need to be eligibility checks. Far too many will be taking the food yet have plenty of money in their accounts. They’re abusing the system. It’s immoral and disgusting yet all we get fed at this time of year is stories of hardship.

Let’s be clear. Foodbanks should be for the unfortunate desperate hungry people. They shouldn’t be a lifestyle option for folk who live relatively comfortable lives but want to free up their food shop money so they can carry on with socialising etc.

Oh dear.

The rantings of a taxi driver. Has opinions on everything, but knows nothing.

What gets me is taxi drivers not declaring all of their cash in hand income for tax purposes, and pocketing COVID lockdown monies while carrying on working- and that also applies to lots of self employed and small businesses.

I'd be delighted to help the Government hunt these people down and recover the money.

" So called benefit scroungers and food bank abusers" - they can't hold a candle to these cowboys.

 

[seasideone]

For the sake of the hard of reading, see mine at #35.

Yeh - just your normal BS when you don’t want to answer a question, where you know the answer to and it makes you look a dick

 

[southshorepool]

So it is morally ok to use a food bank and then nip into town in a taxi for a night out?

It probably isn't but in any discussion on this, there has to be a belief that the op hasn't exaggerated the truth.

 

[Wizaard]

Oh dear.

The rantings of a taxi driver. Has opinions on everything, but knows nothing.

What gets me is taxi drivers not declaring all of their cash in hand income for tax purposes, and pocketing COVID lockdown monies while carrying on working- and that also applies to lots of self employed and small businesses.

I'd be delighted to help the Government hunt these people down and recover the money.

" So called benefit scroungers and food bank abusers" - they can't hold a candle to these cowboys.

Who's the bigger peril to the country? Someone who gets some food that would otherwise have been thrown away, or skimming £29 million off the taxpayer, then fleeing the country to avoid any consequence.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Yeh - just your normal BS when you don’t want to answer a question, where you know the answer to and it makes you look a dick

Whereas you don't need to put in the effort to carry that off.

 

[Malced]

Do you not think you should talk to your "mate" and explain that he's taking the piss, and that people with genuine need will have to do without.

Many full time workers cannot meet the cost of housing, energy and food (and often debt from student days (teachers and nurses a good example)) from their full time suposedly living wages, which is ridiculous. A full time job shouldnt leave people in need and they are, over 60% of the uk population is living paycheck to paycheck. if it wasnt foodbanks it would loan sharks and / or payday lending or something else equally problematic that those people would subject to.

There should not need to be a need for foodbanks, we are not living in the Victorian era or we shouldnt be. the fact that the conservatives are now saying that increasing the number of foodbanks in a conservative controlled region is a positive thing - is a good indication of where we are as a society.

i have expressed my disgust to him but he is not bothered in the slightest

 

[Malced]

Oh dear.

The rantings of a taxi driver. Has opinions on everything, but knows nothing.

What gets me is taxi drivers not declaring all of their cash in hand income for tax purposes, and pocketing COVID lockdown monies while carrying on working- and that also applies to lots of self employed and small businesses.

I'd be delighted to help the Government hunt these people down and recover the money.

" So called benefit scroungers and food bank abusers" - they can't hold a candle to these cowboys.

another one with the personal attacks and who doesn't address any of the points i raised. You can categorise my post as a rant, but I can then equally categorise yours as a nasty petty post from an inadequate with nothing worhtwhile to contribute on the subject matter

 

[Malced]

Who's the bigger peril to the country? Someone who gets some food that would otherwise have been thrown away, or skimming £29 million off the taxpayer, then fleeing the country to avoid any consequence.

why don't you address the topic instead of deflect deflect deflect? it's not a one-themed message board where we have a competition to identify the gravest thing for discussion and then can only talk about that. By your logic we couldn't talk about people parking on zigzag yellow lines outside a school because there's murderers out there killing people.

 

[Wizaard]

why don't you address the topic instead of deflect deflect deflect? it's not a one-themed message board where we have a competition to identify the gravest thing for discussion and then can only talk about that. By your logic we couldn't talk about people parking on zigzag yellow lines outside a school because there's murderers out there killing people.

That's right. The most important thing is you suspecting that someone might be using a food bank who shouldn't, although you know nothing at all of their personal circumstances. For all you know she might work 5 hours a week at the school and is paid accordingly, but no, let's make assumptions and deflect from what's really going on in the country.

 

[Matesrates]

I’ve not joined in this debate so far and all I’m going to say on the subject is that 1. I know someone who uses food banks and doesn’t need to. 2. The whole benefit system is abused as is the tax system, non doms etc. I doubt it’ll ever change.

 

[Malced]

It's very interesting to read the admirable posts from those who have experience of volunteering with food banks. I notice that some of the experience referenced was from a few years ago. But since then foodbanks have become much more commonplace. And maybe back then there was a clearer link with those out of work or on benefits so they could be given food plus wider help based on their circumstances.

I don't know, but I suspect there are no eligibility checks anymore given that people from all walks of life are accessing food banks.

As I've said time and again, food banks are sadly needed. There's a real tension between growing numbers seeking their help, and the food available. As more and more access them, they will become less viable. So ultimately they may well need to find a way to determine who is the most deserved or needy of their limited resources.

The specific examples of abuse I've given are merely that - examples. I'm not saying they're typical. But the two I know about can't and won't be the only two. So I question how widescale the abuse is. When you have a professional school worker happy to confide that she uses food banks, whilst in the same breath saying she paid her gas/electric arrears in one fell swoop, and is heading off for an expensive night out on the lash, it does suggest that food banks are perhaps being used so money for food shopping can instead be diverted to help maintain a certain standard of living that they're accustomed to.

This type of abuse is beyond the pale. I don't know why so many on here can't bear to acknowledge there's an issue - an issue which puts this vital support service at risk. Surely we would all want the limited resources to go to the right people.

 

[Malced]

That's right. The most important thing is you suspecting that someone might be using a food bank who shouldn't, although you know nothing at all of their personal circumstances. For all you know she might work 5 hours a week at the school and is paid accordingly, but no, let's make assumptions and deflect from what's really going on in the country.

careful. you're in danger of posting about the actual topic.

I admit I don't know their circumstances. But I picked them up in an affluent area from nice houses. They said they paid their £500 utility arrears in one go. They were dressed very smartly and paid the cab by card. The were going for a night out which would be at some significant cost. Now you can assume from that what you like. But I assume that there are much more needy individuals worthy of a food bank parcel.

 

[Malced]

My neighbours who don’t work got food parcels all through lockdown, particularly for the kids.
Anything that needed scraping,chopping, washing or actually cooking they tried to palm off on me, their full time working neighbour.

if you were a true neighbour you'd have prepped the veg for them. but maybe the thought of that wasn't a peeling for you?

 

[Loco]

It's a sad state of affairs that food banks exist at all. Especially now they've become normalised.

 

[todayistheday]

We keep hearing about how record numbers are ‘having to’ use them. And how that’s such a shameful indictment on our country.

However I’m not prepared to accept that at face value. I’m sure the figures are inflated by many who exploit them without real need. They’re taking advantage so they can use their income on other things such as a social life and non-essentials.

This is a problem because the food bank donations are on the decrease when demand is getting higher and higher. So these chancers are taking food which then means there’s less for the genuine.

The issue has arisen partly cos the media and unions have helped normalise the idea and take away any stigma there might have been. Stigma isn’t a good thing, but we are seeing the polar opposite where the foodbanks are becoming a badge of honour for those that want to moan about the cost of living.

The media and unions are forever saying that teachers, nhs workers and train workers etc are using foodbanks. So over time that’s become more and more of a thing. People with significant incomes are taking food and are happy to tell others about it and thus it becomes more and more normalised.

I have a mate who goes. He is on various benefits but has lots of disposable income. He goes to the pub regularly. He eats at weatherspoons regularly. Yet he all too willingly goes to a foodbank. He has absolutely no need to.

I had a couple of ladies in my cab last week. They were glammed up for a night out in Poulton. They were teachers or some sort of school workers. On the way to poulton they were talking about the cost of electric and gas. I picked them up at lovely expensive looking houses. One said she’d initially refused to pay her gas and electric and joined in with the campaign to refuse to pay. However she went on to say she’d thought better of it and after a while paid the arrears of £500 or so. She then said ‘everything is so expensive. I’ve had to use the foodbank.’ Then followed a conversion about the foodbank and what she got as part of a typical food goody bag.
Anyways, they arrived in poulton, paid the £13 fare, and headed off for their night out. I found it shocking.

Now don’t get me wrong, there’s a need for foodbanks BUT they should only be for the genuine who have no other means to feed themselves and their families.

I very much doubt there’s any checks done by the foodbanks to weed out the chancers. There was a person on sky seen using the foodbank and then getting in their 4x4 vehicle and driving away. Poor thing. Well I suppose the cost of their car lease and fuel etc has made them so desperate.

I think there need to be eligibility checks. Far too many will be taking the food yet have plenty of money in their accounts. They’re abusing the system. It’s immoral and disgusting yet all we get fed at this time of year is stories of hardship.

Let’s be clear. Foodbanks should be for the unfortunate desperate hungry people. They shouldn’t be a lifestyle option for folk who live relatively comfortable lives but want to free up their food shop money so they can carry on with socialising etc.

If their priorities are spending money on other things, then why not. Are there rules in place. Making life eay for some will always attract the vermin.

 

[Wizaard]

careful. you're in danger of posting about the actual topic.

I admit I don't know their circumstances. But I picked them up in an affluent area from nice houses. They said they paid their £500 utility arrears in one go. They were dressed very smartly and paid the cab by card. The were going for a night out which would be at some significant cost. Now you can assume from that what you like. But I assume that there are much more needy individuals worthy of a food bank parcel.

Have you thought that you picked them up from their cleaning job in that affluent area?

And the younger element pay for everything by card. Cash isn't an option for most. A card that is very easy to get credit on...

 

[glasshalffull]

This post doesn’t follow on from any tabloid article that I’ve seen. I’ve never seen any article about such abuse. Have you?

So my post to be seen by what a few hundred is hardly gonna put donations at risk.
Of those few hundred, how many donate? Maybe one or two? And of those one or two how many will stop donating because of my words? None. So come on, let’s not attribute my words as a credible risk to donations. That’s unfair.

No I haven’t seen any articles like that, but I am not really likely to in all honesty.

OK maybe it was a bit unfair, but I do think it is a little pernicious to begin to undermine something that is very much needed, based so much on people’s goodwill and trust, is by it’s very nature susceptible to abuse and already running short of donations.

You are right several hundred will see it, and when their conversations turn to foodbanks will no doubt happily pass on the tales of our ‘little old, local, mayonnaise phobic taxi driver’ ( seriously this really isn’t meant as an insult).

Pretty soon the narrative and feeling around foodbanks could become more cynical and less generous which would really not be helpful.

I am sure you are not as bad as the Daily Mail would be though!

 

[seasideone]

Whereas you don't need to put in the effort to carry that off.

One day soon you may answer a direct question with a direct answer.

….but hell may freeze over first

 

[seasideone]

So it is morally ok to use a food bank and then nip into town in a taxi for a night out?

Come on @1966_and_all_that try and answer with a yes or no - it’s not that difficult to answer the above question that way is it??

 

[TSSeasider]

It's very interesting to read the admirable posts from those who have experience of volunteering with food banks. I notice that some of the experience referenced was from a few years ago. But since then foodbanks have become much more commonplace. And maybe back then there was a clearer link with those out of work or on benefits so they could be given food plus wider help based on their circumstances.

I don't know, but I suspect there are no eligibility checks anymore given that people from all walks of life are accessing food banks.

As I've said time and again, food banks are sadly needed. There's a real tension between growing numbers seeking their help, and the food available. As more and more access them, they will become less viable. So ultimately they may well need to find a way to determine who is the most deserved or needy of their limited resources.

The specific examples of abuse I've given are merely that - examples. I'm not saying they're typical. But the two I know about can't and won't be the only two. So I question how widescale the abuse is. When you have a professional school worker happy to confide that she uses food banks, whilst in the same breath saying she paid her gas/electric arrears in one fell swoop, and is heading off for an expensive night out on the lash, it does suggest that food banks are perhaps being used so money for food shopping can instead be diverted to help maintain a certain standard of living that they're accustomed to.

This type of abuse is beyond the pale. I don't know why so many on here can't bear to acknowledge there's an issue - an issue which puts this vital support service at risk. Surely we would all want the limited resources to go to the right people.

As someone in the field there are elements of what you say which are accurate; however, overall, those using the Trussell Trust food banks are:

Referred by a partner agency (don't get me started on DWP sanctioning people and giving them vouchers to go to the food bank, it's immoral) but they may also be referred by social services, a housing provider, church, another charity, school etc etc They take that referral on trust.

A few people self refer, but they are a tiny minority. Those people will work with the FB to look at their budget etc.

They will generally get a maximum of 3 weeks of food over a 6 month period. It's basically an emergency service to tide people over.

They are of course human and will finesse the rules when required.

There is also a shift away from just food to trying to change the system a bit. Looking at trends in sanctioning and far more effort trying to address the underlining problem. For many that are so riddled by drugs and alcohol, the problems are beyond the scope of their work and is a reflection of the depressingly poor D&A services. The societal issue which leads to large swathes of the population ending up in the cesspit of D&A abuse is a for another topic.

And FB's do this through independent funding and the generosity of lots of people; not the state.

So are there people who see an opportunity to not pay for a bag of food - yes.

There are people who want free gifts for their kids at Christmas too, and they get them.

Is it wrong; of course.

Who is responsible? The people abusing it, not the people trying to help.

What should be done; nothing really - if that bag of value food is so important, then crack on.

I would add though.

The creation of the Food bank network has had one very poor unintended consequence; it's allowed politicians and civil/public servants to ignore the impact of their decisions which can have catastrophic consequences on people lives and that's a shame.

 

[tangerine.com]

So I suppose you’ve donated the £13 fare to a food bank then?

Why should he donate £13? He's earning a living not troughing at a food bank.

 

[20togo]

That's right. The most important thing is you suspecting that someone might be using a food bank who shouldn't, although you know nothing at all of their personal circumstances. For all you know she might work 5 hours a week at the school and is paid accordingly, but no, let's make assumptions and deflect from what's really going on in the country.

Have you thought that you picked them up from their cleaning job in that affluent area?

And the younger element pay for everything by card. Cash isn't an option for most. A card that is very easy to get credit on...

Your first post accuses Malced of making assumptions and then your second one goes on to make assumptions yourself.

I'd suggest that Malced being at the scene so to speak is more likely to make a far better assumption than you!

Mex never did get back to me to acknowledge that as pointed out he had indeed made it UK political. No worries though.

 

[Malced]

No I haven’t seen any articles like that, but I am not really likely to in all honesty.

OK maybe it was a bit unfair, but I do think it is a little pernicious to begin to undermine something that is very much needed, based so much on people’s goodwill and trust, is by it’s very nature susceptible to abuse and already running short of donations.

You are right several hundred will see it, and when their conversations turn to foodbanks will no doubt happily pass on the tales of our ‘little old, local, mayonnaise phobic taxi driver’ ( seriously this really isn’t meant as an insult).

Pretty soon the narrative and feeling around foodbanks could becomes more cynical and less generous which would really not be helpful.

I am sure you are not as bad as the Daily Mail would be though!

Haha. I do appreciate your balanced style of posting. You seem a very calm, sensible and rational person. A rare commodity!!!

I have never criticised the needy for seeking out a food bank. In fact it’s their interests I had in mind.

Not do I intend to undermine good banks or those fine people organising them and volunteering etc.

I think my comments have been taken as a slight against food banks in general but that’s the furthest thing from my intention.

Let me draw a parallel. If I or others were to criticise benefit fraudsters that wouldn’t be a criticism aimed at those on benefits. So I’m not sure why you feel I’m having a go at the needy or those who run food banks. I’m not responsible for someone abusing a food bank nor would I be responsible for someone defrauding the benefits system. But I would criticise those who are in the wrong morally or legally.

And I’ve also stated severe times that resources/donations are running short. So it’s more important than ever that their services aren’t exploited.

 

[Wizaard]

Your first post accuses Malced of making assumptions and then your second one goes on to make assumptions yourself.

I'd suggest that Malced being at the scene so to speak is more likely to make a far better assumption than you!

Mex never did get back to me to acknowledge that as pointed out he had indeed made it UK political. No worries though.

No surprise that you want to have a go at people attending a food bank but are conspicuously silent when literally billions are stolen from the taxpayer by Government donors.

 

[Malced]

Have you thought that you picked them up from their cleaning job in that affluent area?

And the younger element pay for everything by card. Cash isn't an option for most. A card that is very easy to get credit on...

Cleaning job? What? I picked two adult women up from separate addresses in affluent areas. There’s a possibility albeit slight, that the owner of the house at their last stop on their cleaning round, allowed them to have a shower, do their hair and make up and then change into to a set of glad rags that they’d carried around with them all day, and then headed off for a night out whilst the head of the household lent them their debit card and washed and ironed their cleaning outfit ready for the next day. It’s possible. Just maybe. But it’s also possible you’re refusing to consider even for a second that one of these ladies was using a food bank when there was absolutely no necessity.

Ps lots of people build up debt on credit cards. But even if it was a credit card, that means they had purchasing power for groceries and perhaps that was a wiser choice than going out on the lash.

 

[Wizaard]

Cleaning job? What? I picked two adult women up from separate addresses in affluent areas. There’s a possibility albeit slight, that the owner of the house at their last stop on their cleaning round, allowed them to have a shower, do their hair and make up and then change into to a set of glad rags that they’d carried around with them all day, and then headed off for a night out whilst the head of the household lent them their debit card and washed and ironed their cleaning outfit ready for the next day. It’s possible. Just maybe. But it’s also possible you’re refusing to consider even for a second that one of these ladies was using a food bank when there was absolutely no necessity.

I'm saying there is absolutely no proof at all that there is no necessity, as you have no idea as to their personal circumstances. You've speculated just as I did.

 

[20togo]

I'm saying there is absolutely no proof at all that there is no necessity, as you have no idea as to their personal circumstances. You've speculated just as I did.

Your post was bullshit and you know it. Malced simply recounted an event which you took no part in. He was in a far better position than you to judge the situation. It was you who wanted to twist it to suit your political agenda. And as I said you , Mex and 1966 couldn't wait to get your grubby little political mitts on it.

 

[bill40]

My neighbours who don’t work got food parcels all through lockdown, particularly for the kids.
Anything that needed scraping,chopping, washing or actually cooking they tried to palm off on me, their full time working neighbour.

Ever thought that could be because they couldn't afford to cook it? Or that maybe they simply didn't know how? You could even have offered to show them.

 

[Old_Laytonian]

They might have robbed the houses and be female "Raffles"

 

[Malced]

They might have robbed the houses and be female "Raffles"

That might explain why they were wearing white and black stripey tops which were sporting a shiney sequinned ‘The Rafflettes’ logo.

Imagine the detective finding a solitary sequin on the bedroom floor next to the open dresser and empty jewellery box.

 

[bill40]

I was just going to call the O/P an arsehole and leave it at that but sod it I'll engage. So Malaced what do you think a foodbank is? Do you seriously think you can just rock up to demand free food? You need a referral to use a foodbank and what you get is limited in terms of quantity and quality. The stuff you get is mostly tinned/dried. The fruit and veg is anything but fresh but better than nothing. Toiletries are becoming desperately sought after including sanitary products FFS how has it come to this? I would guess the 4x4 owner was a volunteer doing deliveries rather than a user. I know all this because I volunteer at a foodbank and do a bog standard cooking class once a week.

I don't want a bleedin' medal for this but not posting anecdotes about poor people would be really nice, you should reserve your ire for the Tory pricks that got us into this mess. Apart from that Happy Christmas and give generously to your local foodbank.

 

[Malced]

I was just going to call the O/P an arsehole and leave it at that but sod it I'll engage. So Malaced what do you think a foodbank is? Do you seriously think you can just rock up to demand free food? You need a referral to use a foodbank and what you get is limited in terms of quantity and quality. The stuff you get is mostly tinned/dried. The fruit and veg is anything but fresh but better than nothing. Toiletries are becoming desperately sought after including sanitary products FFS how has it come to this? I would guess the 4x4 owner was a volunteer doing deliveries rather than a user. I know all this because I volunteer at a foodbank and do a bog standard cooking class once a week.

I don't want a bleedin' medal for this but not posting anecdotes about poor people would be really nice, you should reserve your ire for the Tory pricks that got us into this mess. Apart from that Happy Christmas and give generously to your local foodbank.

I didn’t post anecdotes about poor people. I posted about actual people who I have had close contact with and in my opinion were far from poor yet were using foodbanks. If you’re fine with that then you’re part of the problem despite your good work at the foodbank.

Clearly the referral system isn’t working or isn’t watertight and is being abused. To what extent I dont know. But there’s others on here who’ve said they know folk using food banks who don’t need to.

I could call you an arsehole for patronising others about how they should manage their neighbours laziness when they’ve got home from a full time job and need to cook for their own family rather than someone else’s. But I won’t.

 

[TSSeasider]

Just to give an idea of the type of food waste we are talking about.

I've attached a photograph of one cage of food, there were two tonight which we will be sharing in the morning.

We are not a food bank, a variety of people take it, but surely it's better to be eaten by people than either land fill of used as animal feed?

 

[Lala]

Ever thought that could be because they couldn't afford to cook it? Or that maybe they simply didn't know how? You could even have offered to show them.

No I didn’t think that because I know neither of those things are true.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

It's inevitable some people will take advantage of charity. Charity bosses on salaries of £150K plus a year do that themselves for a start.

Capitalism and debt-based society is the problem. As time goes by, more and more people get dragged down into a struggling financial position. We badly need more socialism.

 

[glasshalffull]

Haha. I do appreciate your balanced style of posting. You seem a very calm, sensible and rational person. A rare commodity!!!

I have never criticised the needy for seeking out a food bank. In fact it’s their interests I had in mind.

Not do I intend to undermine good banks or those fine people organising them and volunteering etc.

I think my comments have been taken as a slight against food banks in general but that’s the furthest thing from my intention.

Let me draw a parallel. If I or others were to criticise benefit fraudsters that wouldn’t be a criticism aimed at those on benefits. So I’m not sure why you feel I’m having a go at the needy or those who run food banks. I’m not responsible for someone abusing a food bank nor would I be responsible for someone defrauding the benefits system. But I would criticise those who are in the wrong morally or legally.

And I’ve also stated severe times that resources/donations are running short. So it’s more important than ever that their services aren’t exploited.

Thankyou for your flattering comments, always appreciated, but sadly probably not really deserved.
For what it’s worth I don’t think you have attacked the needy or benefit claimants, or the fundamental basis or need for food banks.
I do think you have been over cynical in some of your comments, and also under appreciative of how food poverty has now spread through to those in higher income brackets, but maybe if I had been giving a lift to some of your customers I would have said the same. I don’t know.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

He obviously feels strongly about it so I was just testing to see how strongly he actually feels. He seems to think these ladies have effectively “stolen” from the food bank in which case he could make amends by donating the money he made from them. Rather than profiting from “the proceeds of crime”.

As for your other point, you’re right. People can be dishonest whether they’re from the “bottom” or the “top” although I suspect those at the top snaffle the most - see Michelle Mone - which is why they’re the most obvious target for criticism.

My other issues about the op are first that it seems to be in the same vein as lots of other stories that try to demonise “the poor”. Let’s cast a bit of doubt about some of the people using food banks and then it’s easier to cast all users in the same light.

And then secondly it sort of misses the point. Which is, why is there any need for food banks at all?

Mex

I don't really think that Malced is missing any point.

He is making a point that the use of food banks is open to abuse, I don't think that many - or even any ? - of us would doubt this ?

He also provided an example of such abuse for any of us who maybe doubtful.

You question why there is any need for food banks but the point made by Malced regarding the abuse of the use of food banks still remains.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

I’ve got no doubt some people are abusing food banks. But how many?

Is it 1%? 10%? 90%?

Do you have any idea? Because I don’t.

Which makes it very easy to infer that the vast majority of people who use food banks are chancers. As some on the right will no doubt be very happy to do.

Mex

Like you, I have no idea of the exact percentage of food bank users who are abusing the system.

I don't think that anybody on here is suggesting that the "vast majority of people who use food banks are chancers".

Why do you choose to suggest that "some on the right" will no doubt be happy to do this ?

Don't get me wrong, I am sure that there will be some people, somewhere who are of the opinion "that the vast majority of people who use food banks are chancers", but I think you are going some to also tell us their political persuasion.

Please forgive me if I am wrong but I am wondering if it's you that's actually missing the point ?

The opening poster has suggested that food banks are open to abuse and provided an example of this being done but rather than address the issue raised by the opening poster and the obvious problems around it, it would seem that you appear happier to attack the opening poster and create some kind of pointless left versus right battle that completely ignores the valid points made by the opening poster.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

I volunteered at an East London foodbank for a while.

Everyone who used it went through an application process and had to fit specific criteria. It wasn’t just the food, there were advisors that would help people with get back into employment or help them with their benefits.

During Covid we did a lot of deliveries, it was mainly single mums, old people, some disabled people. We also used to deliver to the women’s refuge. Personally, I never doubted anyone’s credentials and I took everyone on face value.

I saw my fair share of squalor, sometimes in estates that still exists within the City not far from the financial centre, that was a bit surreal to see it so close to all that wealth. I don’t foresee those estates being there for too long, it’s a matter of time. We delivered to some new apartment blocks too, they tended to be a bit younger, normally mums with a few kids from memory.

The food they got was basic tinned produce, pasta and rice, and some bread. It was nothing special but enough to get through a week. They don’t know what they’re going to get it was a semi-random selection but they’d get three to five bags depending on the size of their family.

I’m not sure if every foodbank is the same, I’ve only worked for the one but it’s first hand experience so perhaps worth sharing whilst on the subject.

Kenny

Thanks for that, that's interesting.

It's good to hear that you were providing additional support to the users of the food bank and also helping them better their lives.

I would have expected there to be something more formal - like you have explained - at some food banks but I guess that no matter what the system it will always be open to abuse.

Food banks are obviously not going to be resourced to deal with abuse so it's good to hear that nobody abused the scheme you volunteered at.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

There is absolutely no evidence of people widely abusing the system, and this anecdote doesn't prove a thing. 'Expensive looking house'. What does that mean?

Once again, deflect from the real issue and get the public blaming each other rather than the real bogeymen.

Come on Wiz, you are not stupid.

We all know that there are people who use food banks who prioritise their spend in a questionable manner and daft to suggest otherwise.

Choosing to ignore this could result in some posters being less likely to consider the valid points that you make in the discussion.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

It's so uplifting at this time of festive cheer and goodwill to all, that we have a thread undermining the very worthy charitable work of food banks, those who run them and those who donate to them. The deliberate and cynical gaslighting of the media and trades unions on this issue is also most refreshing. Well done. I couldn't think of a better time of year to share these well considered thoughts.

Come on 66.

Like the Wizmeister you are far from stupid.

The very worthy charitable work of food banks, those who run them and those who donate to them is being undermined by those who abuse them.

I couldn't care less whether it's Christmas time or not but given your continual reference to the festive period, I'll suggest that the abuse of food banks is very likely to result in donors questioning their contributions and even more so during times when they face financial pressure themselves.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

My neighbours who don’t work got food parcels all through lockdown, particularly for the kids.
Anything that needed scraping,chopping, washing or actually cooking they tried to palm off on me, their full time working neighbour.

About right that LALA

I shouldn't laugh but there will be plenty struggling and plenty taking the p1ss and we all know that's the case.

Your first hand example might help convince those who pretend otherwise ?

 

[SEASIDE2020]

I’ve not joined in this debate so far and all I’m going to say on the subject is that 1. I know someone who uses food banks and doesn’t need to. 2. The whole benefit system is abused as is the tax system, non doms etc. I doubt it’ll ever change.

Mates

You are ahead of your time.

For some reason, I abandoned my usual method of reading a big thread the wrong way round and have read and responded to posts in the order that they were posted.

This has resulted in me losing 2 hours of my life but having now read your post, I'm calling it a day.


Malced

In all seriousness, once again I will say an interesting post that inspires good discussion and debate.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Come on 66.

Like the Wizmeister you are far from stupid.

The very worthy charitable work of food banks, those who run them and those who donate to them is being undermined by those who abuse them.

I couldn't care less whether it's Christmas time or not but given your continual reference to the festive period, I'll suggest that the abuse of food banks is very likely to result in donors questioning their contributions and even more so during times when they face financial pressure themselves.

I think that focusing on the relatively small amount of abuse hitting food banks, compared to the massive good that they do, does more harm than good. It is opening up a concern that does not need to be addressed and which - if allowed to grow beyond the peripheral issue that it really is - could well put off genuinely charitable people from contributing to food banks. I suspect it is more about stiring up suspicion about one's neighbours and peers than it is a genuine concern that needs to be challenged.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Come on @1966_and_all_that try and answer with a yes or no - it’s not that difficult to answer the above question that way is it??

Irritating, isn't it?

 

[Malced]

I think that focusing on the relatively small amount of abuse hitting food banks, compared to the massive good that they do, does more harm than good. It is opening up a concern that does not need to be addressed and which - if allowed to grow beyond the peripheral issue that it really is - could well put off genuinely charitable people from contributing to food banks. I suspect it is more about stiring up suspicion about one's neighbours and peers than it is a genuine concern that needs to be challenged.

Respectfully I disagree.

I don’t see a link between this discussion and some future negative impact on food bank donations. It’s not just a slight stretch, but rather a quantum leap

The power of social media is undoubted. But we’re hardly gonna see some societal behavioural changing viral thread spawned from AVFTT. (No offence mods - but this ain’t Twitter).

By contrast though, you and the others with such concern could consider a more positive impact. It could shame any abusers into thinking again about their morals and their behaviour. They may think better of taking food away from the more needy going forward. If you allow the possibility of the former, then you must allow the possibility of the latter.

But neither will happen. It’s just a thread on avftt with very limited impact.
Some topics are uncomfortable. It’s not a perfect world. It’s not nice to read about people exploiting food banks. But we can’t stick our head in the sand and pretend everything is perfect.

I raised this topic purely because food banks have been mentioned time and again on the news as we approach Christmas; and due to the many strikes that we’ve been seeing.
The shortage in donations has been reported.

So having heard the lady in my taxi talking with absolutely no compunction about going to the food bank, it made me ponder how widespread it is for seemingly well off people to take advantage of this type of charity.

It’s not about suspicion of neighbours. It’a not about criticism of food banks. It’s not about right v left. Ifs a genuine concern that there won’t be enough for the ones in desperate need, if it’s been given to those who aren’t hungry and who have the means to buy their food.

And sadly I do have a concern that the more food banks are normalised by the media, the more the demand will be, and the less viable food banks will become. They’re only effective if they are for the most needy. If we morph to a situation where people go cos it will mean they have money for other things, then the food banks won’t have a cat in hells chance.

 

[Costero Poderoso]

There is abuse of all systems at all levels in society, food banks, avoiding VAT, avoiding tax all the way up and down the economic scale, and then the outright corruption that we have seen during the lockdown where a few already wealthy or highly connected individuals extract millions of pounds.

It will always exist because around 3-4 % of the human population has some form of sociopathic / psychopathic / narcissistic personality disorder and have little empathy for others. the result of this is that most of our institutions are biased towards reduced empathy and with reduced empathy comes reduced responsibility. The basic nature of modern corporations (and i think most other institutions) is towards sociopathy, it takes just one sociopath in a company to change the behavioural culture in an organisation because it is impossible to negotiate with someone with a lack of empathy, they dont see mutual benefit.

Sociopathy and narcissism are on the increase in industrial societies according the the WHO, because they are generally (although not always) learnt behaviours, and to survive most individuals have, to one extent or another, adopt sociopathic tendencies to cope, which becomes a norm. In this context; corruption, gaming the systems, and what you might call soft theft (tax avoidance etc) becomes standard operating procedure, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

The sociopathic behaviour tends to have a trickle down effect, in that the issues lower down the economic chain don't affect the economic groups above. The focus of control or eradication or moral hostility is almost always at the lower end of the economic spectrum, the behaviours at the top are often just brushed under the carpet as part of the process / system - it is just the way it is.

If you dont fix it at the top then you cannot fix it at the bottom. One of the governments I worked for in the early 2000s was deemed by the WTO to be in the top ten countries for corruption and it was endemic in every aspect of social, governmental and business life. The way they fixed it was by ensuring that corruption at the top the economic and societal tree would not be tolerated in any way shape or form and we built systems to both reduce the ability to be corrupt and the government bought in new penalties for those who broke the rules, and they focused all of it at the top end. Within a decade the WTO was declaring this country was one of the least corrupt and it was noticable that petty corruption in every day life was reduced radically.

The point im getting to, rather long windedly, is the social responsibility that we should have has been undermined by the sociopathic tendency of our institutions, and then just for a bit of psychological dissonance we are encouraged through media to be outraged at the poorer parts of society doing what they need to survive whilst being encouraged not to care what goes on at the top of the tree.

Basically we have a fucked up system of responsibility.

 

[TotallyTangerine]

Oh dear.

The rantings of a taxi driver. Has opinions on everything, but knows nothing.

What gets me is taxi drivers not declaring all of their cash in hand income for tax purposes, and pocketing COVID lockdown monies while carrying on working- and that also applies to lots of self employed and small businesses.

I'd be delighted to help the Government hunt these people down and recover the money.

" So called benefit scroungers and food bank abusers" - they can't hold a candle to these cowboys.

“The rantings of a taxi driver.”

Rather insulting to taxi drivers, don’t you think..,especially from one who is very vocal with their own opinions.. By the way, you never did say why you think King Ted school fosters elitism..

 

[seasideone]

Irritating, isn't it?

Yes - when someone can’t answer a simple basic question.

It makes you question their mental ability

 

[Ollygon]

“The rantings of a taxi driver.”

Rather insulting to taxi drivers, don’t you think..,especially from one who is very vocal with their opinions..

Not really.

I don't often use taxis, but when I do the driver invariably starts talking about stuff and for some strange reason expects me to agree with his opinion, however extreme it might be.

I also find that when I'm driving, they push into traffic, u-turn without warning, and on occasions crawl along the Promenade soliciting for business.

So perhaps I am a bit biased.