Football Supporters Association and BST

Plumbs

Well-known member
Just a heads up although I'm getting as bored of it as you are. I've been in a war of words with the FSA for a while now and its come to a head, but its clear to me that during the pandemic there has been an effort for this group to artificially nail its position nationally as our nations fans representatives.
No issue with that but its all a bit contrived where the voting is rigged so only the preferred candidates get to the top table, indeed they held a vote for positions this week a couple of months after the AGM, where associates (groups or individuals) didn't get a look in.
They did the same with the PL delegates a few weeks before the AGM in December so there was never of any danger of anyone not getting on-the AGM was pure tokenism and fans were misled into thinking it was wholly democratic and equitable.

Whats this got to do with Blackpool supporters? Well it means that away from the entirely voluntary option that BST have adopted with its club dialogue meetings, it means that at regional and network meetings groups like BASIL and YS still wont get a vote, and no single associate entity will have access to the EFL meetings etc so you're voice is snuffed out. You therefore might think there is no point contributing to BST when all you're doing is paying the expenses of their umbrella group,where their top table get hotels and rail fares paid for to 'represent' you.This includes many previous meetings abroad to 'fight the good fight' on the ESL issue all paid for by grants and members contributions, yet we're still nowhere establishing a plan to combat it.

On a more local level I've had cause to question BST and AVFTT on the role of moderators on this forum, and following a bottle job from BST on their FB page and threats made from the admin on here-it appears that BST have some control on what is said on here and content is moderated in that direction.
Toe the line or your banned and I've a deep suspicion which moderator has returned from his previous efforts...in fact he's been here a while.

It would be nice to have a grown up discussion on this but it seems clear that the main protagonists wont engage in public and this post wont make 8pm never mind the morning (smiley)

 

avftt_admin

Administrator
Staff member
On a more local level I've had cause to question BST and AVFTT on the role of moderators on this forum, and following a bottle job from BST on their FB page and threats made from the admin on here-it appears that BST have some control on what is said on here and content is moderated in that direction.
Toe the line or your banned and I've a deep suspicion which moderator has returned from his previous efforts...in fact he's been here a while.
As we have explained to @Plumbs - there are no actual ‘Moderators’ on this site as such. We have two log ins which we only use to look at Posts that are ‘Reported’ (which for reference a few people did with this post).

We only take action if we feel someone hasn’t followed the rules of the board, otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users. We have thousands of messages posted each week, which is why we chose this forum, as it gives posters the opportunity to let us know if there is a problem.

If you have a problem with a post then press ‘Report’ and we’ll review it and, as we’ve advised plenty of users, if you have a particular problem with a poster then you can use the Ignore function.

We could have easily deleted this post but prefer to dismiss all the above allegations - am sure BST would reply with similar thoughts - we have never had any dialogue or contact with BST. Contact us at FOL if you have any more questions about this.
 
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Phil_bfc deux

Well-known member
As we have explained to @Plumbs - there are no actual ‘Moderators’ on this site as such. We have two log ins which we only use to look at Posts that are ‘Reported’ (which for reference a few people did with this post).

We only take action if we feel someone hasn’t followed the rules of the board, otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users. We have thousands of messages posted each week, which is why we chose this forum, as it gives posters the opportunity to let us know if there is a problem.

If you have a problem with a post then press ‘Report’ and we’ll review it and, as we’ve advised plenty of users, if you have a particular problem with a poster then you can use the Ignore function.

We could have easily deleted this post but prefer to dismiss all the above allegations - am sure BST would reply with similar thoughts - we have never had any dialogue or contact with BST. Contact us at FOL if you have any more questions about this.
Why would people report this post?

Strange...
 

Critchley Deserved

Well-known member
Why would people report this post?

Strange...
Probably reported for the posters own good. A few allegations made there by him are quite strong. Why people get so wound up by supporters trusts and fan groups I don’t really get - their lives must be pretty dull (and that goes for anyone who gets involved with them - thankless task where you get no thanks).
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
We could have easily deleted this post but prefer to dismiss all the above allegations - am sure BST would reply with similar thoughts - we have never had any dialogue or contact with BST. Contact us at FOL if you have any more questions about this.
Its a tad disingenuous to suggest that you have 'no contact' with BST but -to be fair- you dont have access to their database, but clearly whenever there are posts questioning BST and its involvement on AVFTT and other matters 'someone has raised issues' ; seems quite clear to me that this is moderation by stealth and to be fair pretty cute in how they/the individual are/is going about it.

Regarding the data base with the FSA and the Trusts- I have made a complaint to both them and the DP Commissioner that this has been abused and peoples details have been used for other means. This was clear and unequivocal and I'm hoping this will lead to a prosecution but in the meantime I would advise all Blackpool fans AND BST members to make sure your personal details arent forwarding onto the main FSA office.

Some idiots have been sending me s/shots of my home and I've received items in the post,plus my ebay account was hacked and power tools sent to an address in Leeds.

*Happy to send on the specific details to the admin on here or BST.
 

HatfulofHollow

Well-known member
Some idiots have been sending me s/shots of my home and I've received items in the post,plus my ebay account was hacked and power tools sent to an address in Leeds.

Not got a drill have you? Mine overheated and stopped working last week!
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
Not got a drill have you? Mine overheated and stopped working last week!
Ha! One of the main Makita agents ripped off to the tune of £200.Got my money back but someone had access to my personal details which had previously been held by the LU Trust.

Around this time their secretary had stepped down after his business had been raided in East Yorkshire where cannabis was being cultivated,
although he found some success with the Leeds Ladies later on which erm nearly went bust
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Probably reported for the posters own good. A few allegations made there by him are quite strong. Why people get so wound up by supporters trusts and fan groups I don’t really get - their lives must be pretty dull (and that goes for anyone who gets involved with them - thankless task where you get no thanks).

Regardless of what you may think about Plumbs as a person or about what he has to say, I think it's fair to suggest that he raised his concerns in a polite manner and none of the views he expressed were abhorrent.

The response he has received on this thread along with the way he has been treated previously suggest to me that somebody is not happy that he is expressing his concerns.

I am not suggesting that anybody is involved in any wrongdoing, just that it is clear that some are not happy that Plumbs is expressing his concerns.
 
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Tangerinemoss

Well-known member
The way I see it, Plumbs has a beef with the FSA, fair enough, and he certainly seems to have a real problem with some of the groups from his own club. He has been clear and consistent on that, and fair play.

What I don't like is allegations against our own supporters, because of his own problems. He has consistently told us we were going to have problems with BST, and hinted that they shut down debate to become the only represented Blackpool fans group. I declare an interest as a BST member, I have not seen this, and from what I see of the committee, they are committed to inclusivity.

Just maybe issues with the mods are because Blackpool fans are fed up of Plumbs personal anti Leeds and anti FSA getting board time on here.

But what do I know?
 

20togo

Well-known member
As we have explained to @Plumbs - there are no actual ‘Moderators’ on this site as such. We have two log ins which we only use to look at Posts that are ‘Reported’ (which for reference a few people did with this post).

We only take action if we feel someone hasn’t followed the rules of the board, otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users. We have thousands of messages posted each week, which is why we chose this forum, as it gives posters the opportunity to let us know if there is a problem.

If you have a problem with a post then press ‘Report’ and we’ll review it and, as we’ve advised plenty of users, if you have a particular problem with a poster then you can use the Ignore function.

We could have easily deleted this post but prefer to dismiss all the above allegations - am sure BST would reply with similar thoughts - we have never had any dialogue or contact with BST. Contact us at FOL if you have any more questions about this.
So you can confirm that avftt admin and avftt admin2 [which is fairly new I think] have no other user names on this message board.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
The way I see it, Plumbs has a beef with the FSA, fair enough, and he certainly seems to have a real problem with some of the groups from his own club. He has been clear and consistent on that, and fair play.

What I don't like is allegations against our own supporters, because of his own problems. He has consistently told us we were going to have problems with BST, and hinted that they shut down debate to become the only represented Blackpool fans group. I declare an interest as a BST member, I have not seen this, and from what I see of the committee, they are committed to inclusivity.

Just maybe issues with the mods are because Blackpool fans are fed up of Plumbs personal anti Leeds and anti FSA getting board time on here.

But what do I know?

I know you mean well Moss but are you seriously suggesting that there are moderators - I know they said there were no moderators but to avoid confusion I'm happy to use that term - that are entirely unconnected with BST, FSA and any of Plumbs concerns that review all the posts on this site and have decided that there is a problem with the posts made by Plumbs ?
 
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Tangerinemoss

Well-known member
I know you mean well Moss but are you seriously suggesting that there are moderators - I know they said they were no moderators but to avoid confusion I'm happy to use that term - that are entirely unconnected with BST, FSA and any of Plumbs concerns that review all the posts on this site and have decided that there is a problem with the posts made by Plumbs ?
Many thanks for the patronising reply. I am perfectly capable of making my own mind up about undue influence.

I am used to people claiming all sort of moderation bias, depending on their own viewpoint, and am quite happy to believe the site owners, who, remember, are entirely unconnected to Blackpool. Plumbs has posted this stuff on the site for years, and continues so to do. He can be pretty close to libel with some of his posts, maybe the very few that have been removed are because the owners are risk averse.

Non of which is said in any way to justify anyone who has used his details, threatened him in any way, but I think you need to look over the Pennines for that.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Many thanks for the patronising reply. I am perfectly capable of making my own mind up about undue influence.

I am used to people claiming all sort of moderation bias, depending on their own viewpoint, and am quite happy to believe the site owners, who, remember, are entirely unconnected to Blackpool. Plumbs has posted this stuff on the site for years, and continues so to do. He can be pretty close to libel with some of his posts, maybe the very few that have been removed are because the owners are risk averse.

Non of which is said in any way to justify anyone who has used his details, threatened him in any way, but I think you need to look over the Pennines for that.

Moss

Firstly, although I don't know you personally, I respect you as a poster and certainly didn't mean to patronise you.

I asked you a question which you have now been kind enough to reply to in a manner as equally non patronising as my response.

I have absolutely no reason to doubt any of the facts that you state in your response but we just disagree regarding the moderators and their connections to BST.
 

incredible_edibles

Well-known member
Plumbs has posted this stuff on the site for years, and continues so to do. He can be pretty close to libel with some of his posts.

He’s said before he’s been banned from all the Leeds boards - bit of a loose cannon and don’t really get why he’s on a Blackpool site criticising our forums and supporters trust. BST have been a force for good for the club and we can do without him stirring up trouble for them.
 

Wizaard

Well-known member
Many thanks for the patronising reply. I am perfectly capable of making my own mind up about undue influence.

I am used to people claiming all sort of moderation bias, depending on their own viewpoint, and am quite happy to believe the site owners, who, remember, are entirely unconnected to Blackpool. Plumbs has posted this stuff on the site for years, and continues so to do. He can be pretty close to libel with some of his posts, maybe the very few that have been removed are because the owners are risk averse.

Non of which is said in any way to justify anyone who has used his details, threatened him in any way, but I think you need to look over the Pennines for that.
Yorkshire Seasiders firmly deny that 😉
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
What I don't like is allegations against our own supporters, because of his own problems. He has consistently told us we were going to have problems with BST, and hinted that they shut down debate to become the only represented Blackpool fans group. I declare an interest as a BST member, I have not seen this, and from what I see of the committee, they are committed to inclusivity.
I havent said anyone would have problems with BST but I have with anyone trying to moderate this forum in theirs or anyone elses name. What I have warned about is FSA policy given my 10 years of attending AGMs etc which restricts the input from other fans, irrespective of whatever club they support.I'm actually on your side and would like to see all Blackpool fans given equitable input nationally.
He can be pretty close to libel with some of his posts, maybe the very few that have been removed are because the owners are risk averse.
Non of which is said in any way to justify anyone who has used his details, threatened him in any way, but I think you need to look over the Pennines for that.
Never libellous but the important thing is that the FSA has had an opportunity to act on this and done f@$k all about it. If data protection isn't respected then your individual details could be abused, as its only right to bring this to yours and other clubs fans attention.
He’s said before he’s been banned from all the Leeds boards - bit of a loose cannon and don’t really get why he’s on a Blackpool site criticising our forums and supporters trust. BST have been a force for good for the club and we can do without him stirring up trouble for them.
This forum isnt a 'Blackpool' one and in the past many Blackpool fans have been removed with no chance of appeal, nor any knowledge of who and why this was done. Quite happy to be removed from Leeds' board given the threats and menace that at one point were reported to the police.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I suspect this whole FSA bollocks can be all consuming when you are a part of it. If you’re embroiled in some kind of spat with the committee it’s perhaps a bit like a dispute with your next door neighbour.

However the reality is that hardly anyone is the slightest bit interested in this nonsense. It’s boring, it’s largely irrelevant and nobody gives a shit.

The best advice I can give you is leave football politics and committee life well alone. Stop attending the AGM’s and stop listening to boring anoraks dribble on about the price of pies and just focus on watching your team play.....👍
 

cruzzer

Well-known member
As we have explained to @Plumbs - there are no actual ‘Moderators’ on this site as such. We have two log ins which we only use to look at Posts that are ‘Reported’ (which for reference a few people did with this post).
So who are “we”?
You must have names and be users of the site.
Name yourselves you spineless @&£@&&’s
 
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SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I suspect this whole FSA bollocks can be all consuming when you are a part of it. If you’re embroiled in some kind of spat with the committee it’s perhaps a bit like a dispute with your next door neighbour.

However the reality is that hardly anyone is the slightest bit interested in this nonsense. It’s boring, it’s largely irrelevant and nobody gives a shit.

The best advice I can give you is leave football politics and committee life well alone. Stop attending the AGM’s and stop listening to boring anoraks dribble on about the price of pies and just focus on watching your team play.....👍

Very wise advice but I think that many would not be willing to just walk away from a spat with their neighbour especially if they believed that they had reason to question the behaviour of that neighbour and that the neighbour was not willing to address the concerns that had been raised despite the fact that they had been raised in a polite and appropriate manner.

I think you yourself might possibly find it hard to walk away in such circumstances and would probably be more likely to stand up for what you believed to be right.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Very wise advice but I think that many would not be willing to just walk away from a spat with their neighbour especially if they believed that they had reason to question the behaviour of that neighbour and that the neighbour was not willing to address the concerns that had been raised despite the fact that they had been raised in a polite and appropriate manner.

I think you yourself might possibly find it hard to walk away in such circumstances and would probably be more likely to stand up for what you believed to be right.
There are battles in life that are worth fighting and battles that aren’t... This FSA shyte is a classic example of the latter.

Plumbs is putting himself through a whole load of unnecessary stress & hassle IMO and It’s not healthy!
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
There are battles in life that are worth fighting and battles that aren’t... This FSA shyte is a classic example of the latter.

Plumbs is putting himself through a whole load of unnecessary stress & hassle IMO and It’s not healthy!

I agree with you 200% but................
 

20togo

Well-known member
So you can confirm that avftt admin and avftt admin2 [which is fairly new I think] have no other user names on this message board.
Admin 2 has no authority here None whatsoever

So no reply to my post. And as TAM implies, who is Admin 2?

You state there are two log ins, so you must be somebody! So can you confirm that those who have access to the two admin accounts do not access AVFTT under another username?
 

cruzzer

Well-known member
So no reply to my post. And as TAM implies, who is Admin 2?

You state there are two log ins, so you must be somebody! So can you confirm that those who have access to the two admin accounts do not access AVFTT under another username?
20’s, they obviously have usernames and post regularly. They have very small bollocks so we can probably guess who they are! 🧐
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
20’s, they obviously have usernames and post regularly. They have very small bollocks so we can probably guess who they are! 🧐

I'd imagine most posters have a good idea of who the person who is not a moderator is without the need to measure his/her gonads.
 

Lytham_fy8

Well-known member
This website and it's users have a long history of over stating it's own importance, like I've said for a dozen years or more, it's an obscure forum about a middling football team.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
This website and it's users have a long history of over stating it's own importance, like I've said for a dozen years or more, it's an obscure forum about a middling football team.

Thanks for that, it's important that you keep telling us that 12 years after you first did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On a serious note, I don't think that Plumbs is suggesting that this forum is important.

He is simply of the opinion that he has been wronged and has raised concerns about the happenings on this forum and elsewhere.

He has raised his concerns in a polite and appropriate manner and given those involved the opportunity to explain the situation and justify their behaviours.

Doing what's right is always important including on an obscure forum about a middling football team.
 

Lala

Well-known member
So who are “we”?
You must have names and be users of the site.
Name yourselves you spineless @&£@&&’s
They don’t have to do that though do they. It’s their site that we use free of charge and by choice.
If we don’t like it we can simply walk away. We can’t go demanding information from admin that they don’t have any obligation to divulge. And resorting to insults because you aren’t getting your own way is pretty silly in my opinion.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
They don’t have to do that though do they. It’s their site that we use free of charge and by choice.
If we don’t like it we can simply walk away. We can’t go demanding information from admin that they don’t have any obligation to divulge. And resorting to insults because you aren’t getting your own way is pretty silly in my opinion.

While I agree there is no need for any insults, I don't think Plumbs is doing anything wrong in highlighting his concerns and he has done so in a polite and appropriate manner.

I think AVFTT is a great site and enjoy using it but that it is free of charge should not mean that things are not done properly.

Yes, people can always just walk away if they don't like it but if you adopt an attitude like that towards your customers then it won't be too long before they all walk away.
 

Lala

Well-known member
While I agree there is no need for any insults, I don't think Plumbs is doing anything wrong in highlighting his concerns and he has done so in a polite and appropriate manner.

I think AVFTT is a great site and enjoy using it but that it is free of charge should not mean that things are not done properly.

Yes, people can always just walk away if they don't like it but if you adopt an attitude like that towards your customers then it won't be too long before they all walk away.
I don’t think the masses have any reason to walk away over moderation concerns Seaside.
As I say , Avftt are the hosts and the service provided is free.
As with any social media platform if you don’t like it don’t use it. But unless it’s acting illegally you can’t demand information you aren’t entitled to know.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I don’t think the masses have any reason to walk away over moderation concerns Seaside.
As I say , Avftt are the hosts and the service provided is free.
As with any social media platform if you don’t like it don’t use it. But unless it’s acting illegally you can’t demand information you aren’t entitled to know.

The service is free as you say but is provided on a commercial basis and my point regarding walking away was a general one around not respecting customers and was not specifically related to concerns over moderation.

As to "if you don't like it don't use it", I like the site and have already said as much but if you don't like a certain part or area of something you like on the whole or have a problem with something, I think it would make more sense to try and resolve that problem rather than just walk away from something you liked ?

I am not suggesting that anybody has done anything illegal but Plumbs was not happy about something and I would say that he has made a polite request and not a demand.

I don't think it's a big deal LALA but I think you might alter your viewpoint if you yourself had been wronged, I think we both agree that AVFTT is a good site and it will only continue to be a good site if/when potential wrongs are investigated and appropriate action(s) taken.

Perhaps nothing is wrong ? Fair enough, just respond to Plumbs polite request and provide justification.
 

Lala

Well-known member
The service is free as you say but is provided on a commercial basis and my point regarding walking away was a general one around not respecting customers and was not specifically related to concerns over moderation.

As to "if you don't like it don't use it", I like the site and have already said as much but if you don't like a certain part or area of something you like on the whole or have a problem with something, I think it would make more sense to try and resolve that problem rather than just walk away from something you liked ?

I am not suggesting that anybody has done anything illegal but Plumbs was not happy about something and I would say that he has made a polite request and not a demand.

I don't think it's a big deal LALA but I think you might alter your viewpoint if you yourself had been wronged, I think we both agree that AVFTT is a good site and it will only continue to be a good site if/when potential wrongs are investigated and appropriate action(s) taken.

Perhaps nothing is wrong ? Fair enough, just respond to Plumbs polite request and provide justification.
My original response was aimed at the comments demanding to know who moderated the site and who operated under the avftt admin usernames.
Again I don’t think we have a right to demand this information.
I think they have responded to Plumbs, from what I can gather, privately and on this thread. It doesn’t mean you’ll always get the response you want to hear but that also doesn’t mean anything untoward is going on.
Anyway, I’ve left the site for a while when I’ve been frustrated, because sometimes that is the best or only option on an individual level if you find yourself getting too worked up about stuff.
Like Bifster said, it’s not worth the personal aggravation if you’re feeling aggreived and stressed out.
The key is to come back a year later not giving a **** ! 👌
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
My original response was aimed at the comments demanding to know who moderated the site and who operated under the avftt admin usernames.
Again I don’t think we have a right to demand this information.
I think they have responded to Plumbs, from what I can gather, privately and on this thread. It doesn’t mean you’ll always get the response you want to hear but that also doesn’t mean anything untoward is going on.
Anyway, I’ve left the site for a while when I’ve been frustrated, because sometimes that is the best or only option on an individual level if you find yourself getting too worked up about stuff.
Like Bifster said, it’s not worth the personal aggravation if you’re feeling aggreived and stressed out.
The key is to come back a year later not giving a **** ! 👌

That's fair enough LALA.

I think we can agree that it's a good site but I don't think we will agree on Plumbs/moderation gate.

I am not particularly frustrated but I hear what you say and it is something I take seriously and maybe too seriously.

Perhaps I should give you the same response that I gave to x3, that is I agree with you BUT...........

Apologies if I appeared to take your previous post(s) to pieces, that wasn't my intention and you made fair points whether or not I agreed with them.
 

Mexboroseasider

Well-known member
The service is free as you say but is provided on a commercial basis and my point regarding walking away was a general one around not respecting customers and was not specifically related to concerns over moderation.

As to "if you don't like it don't use it", I like the site and have already said as much but if you don't like a certain part or area of something you like on the whole or have a problem with something, I think it would make more sense to try and resolve that problem rather than just walk away from something you liked ?

I am not suggesting that anybody has done anything illegal but Plumbs was not happy about something and I would say that he has made a polite request and not a demand.

I don't think it's a big deal LALA but I think you might alter your viewpoint if you yourself had been wronged, I think we both agree that AVFTT is a good site and it will only continue to be a good site if/when potential wrongs are investigated and appropriate action(s) taken.

Perhaps nothing is wrong ? Fair enough, just respond to Plumbs polite request and provide justification.
I know what you mean. Before lockdown I went into my local McDonalds and demanded to speak to the manager. When she arrived I said:

“I think you food is tremendous. And the service is speedy and efficient. But I think you let yourself down badly by not providing the full names and contact details for all your staff. Could you please let me have the information”.

Bizarrely, although my request was perfectly polite and respectful, she turned me down!!!!

What has the world come to?!!!!
 

cruzzer

Well-known member
They don’t have to do that though do they. It’s their site that we use free of charge and by choice.
If we don’t like it we can simply walk away. We can’t go demanding information from admin that they don’t have any obligation to divulge. And resorting to insults because you aren’t getting your own way is pretty silly in my opinion.
Firstly if the faceless mods thought it was an insult then they would have deleted my post, which they have done previously.

If they categorically state they do not have other usernames on this site then fine I’m not in the slightest bit interested in who they are.

However if they do use another usernames to join into debates and post comments then absolutely we should know which users are moderating this site.
 

Lala

Well-known member
Firstly if the faceless mods thought it was an insult then they would have deleted my post, which they have done previously.

If they categorically state they do not have other usernames on this site then fine I’m not in the slightest bit interested in who they are.

However if they do use another usernames to join into debates and post comments then absolutely we should know which users are moderating this site.
We absolutely don’t have the right to demand that information or have it at all. You might want it, but it isn’t your right to have it.
Avftt have responded anyway. If you choose not to believe their response then again it’s your choice to stop using the forum, nobody has a gun to your head.
 
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