Football Supporters Association and BST

20togo

Well-known member
There's no contradiction as I've no idea who moderates AVFTT and no interest in being told
The insinuation is it's the BST secretary - hence my post
Well I haven't mentioned the BST secretary have I? Whether it is or isn't I've no idea either. The reason for that? My point all along. No transparency.
 

TwelveAngryMen

Well-known member
Well I haven't mentioned the BST secretary have I? Whether it is or isn't I've no idea either. The reason for that? My point all along. No transparency.
I never said you did

It's in the thread title and Plumbs alludes to it more than once - hence my post
 

Mexboroseasider

Well-known member
Two posts which totally contradict each other.
I don’t think they are contradictory.

I think the avftt post is from the site owners and, although I agree it could be clearer, I suspect they are saying they don’t monitor day to day and only get involved if there’s a report.

My understanding was that for day to day monitoring there are posters who are also mods. As there always have been.

By the way if the BST Secretary is who I think it is I don’t believe that person is a mod. I have a sneaking suspicion that I know at least one person who might be and, if I was right, it’d surprise a lot of people. But I’m obviously not going to speculate. It’ll cost at least three pints once the pubs have reopened.

By the way - it’s not me.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I never said you did

It's in the thread title and Plumbs alludes to it more than once - hence my post
And again imo why there is a need for transparency on here. A point I've been making on here for a while. Not interested in the BST committee angle at all but I can understand why Plumbs may be.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I don’t think they are contradictory.

I think the avftt post is from the site owners and, although I agree it could be clearer, I suspect they are saying they don’t monitor day to day and only get involved if there’s a report.

My understanding was that for day to day monitoring there are posters who are also mods. As there always have been.

By the way if the BST Secretary is who I think it is I don’t believe that person is a mod. I have a sneaking suspicion that I know at least one person who might be and, if I was right, it’d surprise a lot of people. But I’m obviously not going to speculate. It’ll cost at least three pints once the pubs have reopened.

By the way - it’s not me.
cheers. I've read the avftt post a few times and yes, I can see now that it can be interpreted differently. It's most certainly not clear in more than one aspect.
 

TSSeasider

Well-known member
Fans Progress Group; that was the name.

So are we saying that the BST bods stop us posting stuff against them on this site because one of them is a moderator?
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Conveniently sidesteps and deflects the issue.

The question isn't whether BST are involved in moderation of the site. The question is whether anybody of authority within BST [ie sits on the committee] is involved in moderation on this site. ie as an individual not as a group.

Exactly, I was going to ask this very question but chose not to do so because the moderator(s) might not like it being asked.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Exactly, I was going to ask this very question but chose not to do so because the moderator(s) might not like it being asked.
Can I ask, why do you want to know and why it is you think these 'moderators' (otherwise known as two random blokes from Middlesborough, who operate fansonline) might not like it being asked?

Serious question BTW as I'm struggling to grasp why this is such an obsession for a small numebr of posters and utterly irrelevant to most of the rest of us?
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I have to say I am with BFC on this

Who really gives a damn if someone has the time helps moderate on here and acts as secretary to BST

The BST secretary's role is in any event administrative - they AREN'T on the committee itself and don't vote

And who AVFTT ask to help them is completely their call

If you don't like it don't post

No TAM, "If you don't like it don't post" is a cop out.

Moderators have abused their position and surely posters should expect open and honest moderation and should be allowed to question things if that's not the case.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
No TAM, "If you don't like it don't post" is a cop out.

Moderators have abused their position and surely posters should expect open and honest moderation and should be allowed to question things if that's not the case.
"Moderators have abused their position"?

Go one then, talk us though that one, while you are answering my other question.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Fans Progress Group; that was the name.

So are we saying that the BST bods stop us posting stuff against them on this site because one of them is a moderator?

I don't know of anybody who has suggested that and certainly nobody has done so on this thread.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Can I ask, why do you want to know and why it is you think these 'moderators' (otherwise known as two random blokes from Middlesborough, who operate fansonline) might not like it being asked?

Serious question BTW as I'm struggling to grasp why this is such an obsession for a small numebr of posters and utterly irrelevant to most of the rest of us?

My serious answer is that I think there is a lack of transparency in the moderation process.

Now I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you honestly expect me to believe that this forum is moderated by two "random blokes Middlesbrough, who operate fansonline" ?

While I wouldn't suggest that you were obsessed for a second, I do find myself wondering why you appeared to be so bothered that some people have concerns about the lack of transparency in the moderation process ?

My questions are also serious, why would anybody have a problem with people questioning something.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
My serious answer is that I think there is a lack of transparency in the moderation process.

Now I have a couple of questions for you:

Do you honestly expect me to believe that this forum is moderated by two "random blokes Middlesbrough, who operate fansonline" ?

While I wouldn't suggest that you were obsessed for a second, I do find myself wondering why you appeared to be so bothered that some people have concerns about the lack of transparency in the moderation process ?

My questions are also serious, why would anybody have a problem with people questioning something.
So how do we resolve the lack of transparency...? What is it that you are missing?

And going back to your previous accusation... Can you explain specifically how 'the moderators' have abused their position?

Yes I do expect you to believe that the forum is moderated by two random blokes from Middlesborough and that has been the case for quite some time. I've had the pleasure of speaking with one of them and he's a very decent sort 👍

I'm bothered about it because it seems completely at odds with my own perception of the board and its moderation and I'm styruggling to grasp quite how this could be such a big issue for you and a couple of other people.

I'm not sure anyone necesarily has a problem with the question, itls just the obsessive and borderline paranoid nature of the posts in relation to such a seemingly insignifcant matter.
 

Bloodtangerine

Well-known member
So how do we resolve the lack of transparency...? What is it that you are missing?

And going back to your previous accusation... Can you explain specifically how 'the moderators' have abused their position?

Yes I do expect you to believe that the forum is moderated by two random blokes from Middlesborough and that has been the case for quite some time. I've had the pleasure of speaking with one of them and he's a very decent sort 👍

I'm bothered about it because it seems completely at odds with my own perception of the board and its moderation and I'm styruggling to grasp quite how this could be such a big issue for you and a couple of other people.

I'm not sure anyone necesarily has a problem with the question, itls just the obsessive and borderline paranoid nature of the posts in relation to such a seemingly insignifcant matter.
The Boro lads do moderate it. I have spoke to one of em ages ago and he was v nice tbf
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
So how do we resolve the lack of transparency...? What is it that you are missing?

And going back to your previous accusation... Can you explain specifically how 'the moderators' have abused their position?

Yes I do expect you to believe that the forum is moderated by two random blokes from Middlesborough and that has been the case for quite some time. I've had the pleasure of speaking with one of them and he's a very decent sort 👍

I'm bothered about it because it seems completely at odds with my own perception of the board and its moderation and I'm styruggling to grasp quite how this could be such a big issue for you and a couple of other people.

I'm not sure anyone necesarily has a problem with the question, itls just the obsessive and borderline paranoid nature of the posts in relation to such a seemingly insignifcant matter.

Thanks for that x3.

20's post at 3.54pm is exactly what I think.

Don't give 20's any grief because I am now pointing out his post but it perfectly summarises how I feel on this matter.

I don't have any great problem with your enthusiasm but it is strange that you should demonstrate so much enthusiasm towards something which you tell me is - and I quote - "such a seemingly insignificant matter".
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Thanks for that x3.

20's post at 3.54pm is what exactly what I think.

Don't give 20's any grief because I am now pointing out his post but it perfectly summarises how I feel on this matter.

I don't have any great problem with your enthusiasm but it is strange that you should demonstrate so much enthusiasm towards something which you tell me is a - and I quote - "such a seemingly insignificant matter".
Like I've said, I find it weird and I'm interested to understand why such a weird thing is happening.

So I'm being nosey
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Like I've said, I find it weird and I'm interested to understand why such a weird thing is happening.

So I'm being nosey

That's fair enough x3, we all have different views on different matters and treat different issues with differing priorities.

I'm sure I've questioned some things that you might consider to be more important than me before and/or treat them more passionately so I don't consider you to be nosey.

As I said before, 20's post at 3:54pm sums things up perfectly for me.
 
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SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I doubt we'll be getting an answer... Transparency doesn't appear to be his strong point.

Random throw away bullshit to try and justify the pathetic and ongoing paranoid campaign.

Calm down and remember that you feel that it is a very insignificant matter.

I treat it more importantly than you do and make no apologies for doing so.

In previous posts you suggest that you are against bullying and intimidation but now it would appear that you are reacting in a less than considerate manner towards somebody who has suffered as a result of such actions.

Have a good evening.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Calm down and remember that you feel that it is a very insignificant matter.

I treat it more importantly than you do and make no apologies for doing so.

In previous posts you suggest that you are against bullying and intimidation but now it would appear that you are reacting in a less than considerate manner towards somebody who has suffered as a result of such actions.

Have a good evening.
No.... It's suddenly become a hugely significant matter now that you have made a rather unequivocal accusation.

So let's be having you.... Put up or shut up!!
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
No.... It's suddenly become a hugely significant matter now that you have made a rather unequivocal accusation.

So let's be having you.... Put up or shut up!!

Calm down.

Despite the fact that you have suddenly upgraded the significance of matter from "such an insignificant matter" to a "hugely significant matter" does not make you the judge and the jury.

I think that there is a problem with a lack of transparency in the moderation of this board.

You can agree or disagree.

I will not be posting on this thread again tonight.

Goodnight.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Calm down.

Despite the fact that you have suddenly upgraded the significance of matter from "such an insignificant matter" to a "hugely significant matter" does not make you the judge and the jury.

I think that there is a problem with a lack of transparency in the moderation of this board.

You can agree or disagree.

I will not be posting on this thread again tonight.

Goodnight.
I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing as I have no basis upon which to evaluate the situation.... You claim that

a) There is a problem with transparency

Yet you are unwilling to be transparent enough to even explan what you mean

b) That posters have been discriminated against

Yet you have not provided an example or anything to support this claim at all

c) That moderators have "abused their position"

And again nothing whatsoever to back up this accusation

So put up or shut up
 

TwelveAngryMen

Well-known member
As we are on page 4 and still dealing with alleged ' lack of transparency ' lets remind ourselves of one of the very first replies

As we have explained to @Plumbs - there are no actual ‘Moderators’ on this site as such. We have two log ins which we only use to look at Posts that are ‘Reported’ (which for reference a few people did with this post).

We only take action if we feel someone hasn’t followed the rules of the board, otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users. We have thousands of messages posted each week, which is why we chose this forum, as it gives posters the opportunity to let us know if there is a problem.

If you have a problem with a post then press ‘Report’ and we’ll review it and, as we’ve advised plenty of users, if you have a particular problem with a poster then you can use the Ignore function.

We could have easily deleted this post but prefer to dismiss all the above allegations - am sure BST would reply with similar thoughts - we have never had any dialogue or contact with BST. Contact us at FOL if you have any more questions about this.


So we know from ' the horses mouth '

1/There are no moderators

2/ AVFTT owners have NEVER had contact with BST

And yet despite that clear and unequivocal response we have all this nonsense

You couldn't make it up
 

McG_BFC

Well-known member
Am so pleased there are two different forums now so this trash doesn’t stink out the main forum,

My thoughts

1. Who cares who runs the site or moderates it
2. Those who have had posts deleted are clearly the same people who feel the site is against them
3. Anyone who lives out their lives on a forum needs to give their heads a wobble
4. If you don’t like it go and post on Mums.net (probably more appropriate).
5. Off back to the football forum where at least there’s some sense.
 

20togo

Well-known member
As we are on page 4 and still dealing with alleged ' lack of transparency ' lets remind ourselves of one of the very first replies

As we have explained to @Plumbs - there are no actual ‘Moderators’ on this site as such. We have two log ins which we only use to look at Posts that are ‘Reported’ (which for reference a few people did with this post).

We only take action if we feel someone hasn’t followed the rules of the board, otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users. We have thousands of messages posted each week, which is why we chose this forum, as it gives posters the opportunity to let us know if there is a problem.

If you have a problem with a post then press ‘Report’ and we’ll review it and, as we’ve advised plenty of users, if you have a particular problem with a poster then you can use the Ignore function.

We could have easily deleted this post but prefer to dismiss all the above allegations - am sure BST would reply with similar thoughts - we have never had any dialogue or contact with BST. Contact us at FOL if you have any more questions about this.


So we know from ' the horses mouth '

1/There are no moderators

2/ AVFTT owners have NEVER had contact with BST

And yet despite that clear and unequivocal response we have all this nonsense

You couldn't make it up
Again, as Mex points out that post is as clear as mud.

Read your poit 1. You say by interpretating the avftt admin post that there are no moderators.

Now read Mexs interpretation.

"My understanding was that for day to day monitoring there are posters who are also mods. As there always have been."

So which is it? Like I said lack of transparency..
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
Again, as Mex points out that post is as clear as mud.

Read your poit 1. You say by interpretating the avftt admin post that there are no moderators.

Now read Mexs interpretation.

"My understanding was that for day to day monitoring there are posters who are also mods. As there always have been."

So which is it? Like I said lack of transparency..
Which is it?

Is it actually what it says or is it something that fits the paranoid conspiracy theory?
 

Mexboroseasider

Well-known member
Again, as Mex points out that post is as clear as mud.

Read your poit 1. You say by interpretating the avftt admin post that there are no moderators.

Now read Mexs interpretation.

"My understanding was that for day to day monitoring there are posters who are also mods. As there always have been."

So which is it? Like I said lack of transparency..
For clarity it was the words “otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users” that made me think we might still have users who are also mods (in addition to the owners). I thought that might be the case but don’t know it for a fact.

It’s entirely possible that the only oversight is by the owners who only respond when they receive reports.

Frankly I don’t know.

And it might be that the “lack of transparency” is because other people don’t know either. But some other people think they do know 👀 And should come clean. But they can’t 👀 Because they don’t know. 👀 You know.
 

Lala

Well-known member
Am so pleased there are two different forums now so this trash doesn’t stink out the main forum,

My thoughts

1. Who cares who runs the site or moderates it
2. Those who have had posts deleted are clearly the same people who feel the site is against them
3. Anyone who lives out their lives on a forum needs to give their heads a wobble
4. If you don’t like it go and post on Mums.net (probably more appropriate).
5. Off back to the football forum where at least there’s some sense.
Agree with most of that though you’re being a little harsh on mumsnet 🤔
 

Lala

Well-known member
For clarity it was the words “otherwise the board is entirely moderated by you the users” that made me think we might still have users who are also mods (in addition to the owners). I thought that might be the case but don’t know it for a fact.

It’s entirely possible that the only oversight is by the owners who only respond when they receive reports.

Frankly I don’t know.

And it might be that the “lack of transparency” is because other people don’t know either. But some other people think they do know 👀 And should come clean. But they can’t 👀 Because they don’t know. 👀 You know.
I think the bit about moderated by us the users means they react to posts that are reported not that any user is a mod.
And we moderate our own and other’s behaviour to some degree.
 

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
To me the implication in that statement Mex, is that the board is moderated by us all collectively. This has been a widely accepted phrase that we have all used “self-moderation”, whereby we keep each other in line.

Otherwise they would just say we have a few users who have been assigned as moderators, which by the way has been the case in the past and which the FOL guys were quite open about.

Let’s face it, unless someone is acting like an absolute twat, pretty much anything goes....
 

Mexboroseasider

Well-known member
I think the bit about moderated by us the users means they react to posts that are reported not that any user is a mod.
And we moderate our own and other’s behaviour to some degree.
Yes I can see that now. It was probably the use of the word “moderated” after they’d said there were no “moderators” that threw me.

So in answer to the “transparency” question - we’re all mods!! Yippee!!
 

seasideone

Well-known member
You would have to be very very hypocritical to be a mod on this site AND a regular poster, if you chose to keep it quiet.

For me it would be a conflict of interest and open to abuse, if the above was a case.
 

Mexboroseasider

Well-known member
To me the implication in that statement Mex, is that the board is moderated by us all collectively. This has been a widely accepted phrase that we have all used “self-moderation”, whereby we keep each other in line.

Otherwise they would just say we have a few users who have been assigned as moderators, which by the way has been the case in the past and which the FOL guys were quite open about.

Let’s face it, unless someone is acting like an absolute twat, pretty much anything goes....
On reflection I think that’s probably right.
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
You would have to be very very hypocritical to be a mod on this site AND a regular poster, if you chose to keep it quiet.

For me it would be a conflict of interest and open to abuse, if the above was a case.

How dare you say such a thing ?

The moderation on could not be more transparent.

The site is free.

If you don't like the board then just don't use it.

Feck off to Mumsnet.
 

20togo

Well-known member
You would have to be very very hypocritical to be a mod on this site AND a regular poster, if you chose to keep it quiet.

For me it would be a conflict of interest and open to abuse, if the above was a case.
Exactly and that I guess where Plumbs was coming from with regards to this subject.

And as far as I'm aware, Plumbs has generally been very supportive, advisory and helpful when it comes to Trust matters both before and since the BFC was set up and yet here we have people turning on him.
 

Killingmesoftly

Well-known member
Ffs...it’s an irrelevant poxy message board..
Bst...is an equally irrelevant supporters group represented by unpaid volunteers ......who cares....😎
 
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