His ‘Pervness’ Prince Andrew.

To be honest, I find it rather strange that those who appear to be willing to convict Andrew without a trial are the very same folk who don't think that the problem of grooming gangs should be discussed after such groups have been tried and convicted.

Nowt as queer as folk.
Now I come to think of it, I've never correlated the two, how strange. Groups of grooming gangs tried and convicted.....what the fook has that got to do with anything!
I'll just go and discuss it with the missus and get back to you.
 
Now I come to think of it, I've never correlated the two, how strange. Groups of grooming gangs tried and convicted.....what the fook has that got to do with anything!
I'll just go and discuss it with the missus and get back to you.

Shandy

Just to let your wife know, I wasn't suggesting there was any correlation.

I was simply pointing out that on AVFTT, it would appear that it's against the rules to highlight the problem of grooming gangs after yet another group of peados is tried and convicted yet there is no problem with convicting a member of the royal family without a trial.

I'm sure your wife is not daft enough to post on here but clever enough to realise how stupid the rules are ?
 
I notice the favourite son has returned to Balmoral to be with Mummy, hoping for protection, ahh, bless.
 
Shandy

Just to let your wife know, I wasn't suggesting there was any correlation.

I was simply pointing out that on AVFTT, it would appear that it's against the rules to highlight the problem of grooming gangs after yet another group of peados is tried and convicted yet there is no problem with convicting a member of the royal family without a trial.

I'm sure your wife is not daft enough to post on here but clever enough to realise how stupid the rules are ?
When were Asian grooming gang discussions banned? I must have missed that one.
 
When were Asian grooming gang discussions banned? I must have missed that one.
They were never banned and are a regular topic of conversation, that typically results in concensus that the acts are abhorrent and the perpetrators deserve lengthy prison sentences.

It's quite ironic really to think that you can simultaneously state that "It's against the rules to highlight the problem of grooming gangs", whilst actually highlighting the problem of grooming gangs.

"I realise that current topic of conversation Sausage Dogs and I note with interest that 20toGo has managed to succesfully breed championship standard dogs over a sustained period, but I can't help but feel that we shouldn't really be talking about the matter of Sausage Dogs without first considering the problem of Asian Grooming Gangs."
 
Well I think he began by denying ever having met her but then there were photos.

Doesn’t prove they had sex but obviously it starts to paint a picture of credibility.
imagine the amount of people he is introduced to and has been photographed with must be thousands and could anybody be expected to remember them all I dont think so too
 
Hold on.

So she's not allowed to make her own money? You think she should meekly live in poverty and just be a victim? Why?

It's heartening that you can dismiss all this with a laugh though.

Let's face it. He's an over-entitled, hedonistic, layabout Prince who has spent too much time with perverts and thinks the world owes him a living and she's a mercenary ex-hooker drug addict with a history of lying and false accusations of sexual abuse and rape. She's not looking for justice, just money. Anyone spending time supporting either of them is an idiot.
 
imagine the amount of people he is introduced to and has been photographed with must be thousands and could anybody be expected to remember them all I dont think so too
True. But the photo wasn’t a “meet and greet with Mr or Mrs Anonymous for 10 seconds at a public event” sort. It looks to have been in a private flat and suggests a certain closeness between the two.
 
Let's face it. He's an over-entitled, hedonistic, layabout Prince who has spent too much time with perverts and thinks the world owes him a living and she's a mercenary ex-hooker drug addict with a history of lying and false accusations of sexual abuse and rape. She's not looking for justice, just money. Anyone spending time supporting either of them is an idiot.
I would probably have phrased it differently but can understand why you might have reached that conclusion.
 
Let's face it. He's an over-entitled, hedonistic, layabout Prince who has spent too much time with perverts and thinks the world owes him a living and she's a mercenary ex-hooker drug addict with a history of lying and false accusations of sexual abuse and rape. She's not looking for justice, just money. Anyone spending time supporting either of them is an idiot.
So are you saying ex Hooker Drug addicts aren't entitled to call out the abuse that put them on that track ? (not having a clue whether any of your allegations are true)

I would like to see the courts decide this, just the same way they would if it was you or I.
 
When were Asian grooming gang discussions banned? I must have missed that one.

Lytham

I don't think discussions on Asian grooming gangs were ever banned as such, I don't know who suggested that they were but it certainly wan't me so strange that you choose to ask me why ?

There are not really any forum rules as such or perhaps I should say that there are certainly no rules that are applied consistently.

My point was more about everybody being entitled to a trial regardless of their creed, colour or succession to the throne !!!!!!!!!!

Please note that I referred to grooming gangs and not "Asian" grooming gangs as you have done yourself.

When anybody refers to grooming gangs on here it doesn't take too long before they face ridiculous accusations of racism, this happens even when they highlight cases where the perpetrators have been tried and convicted.

With that in mind, I find it rather strange how willing some posters appear to be to convict Prince Andrew without trial ?

In summary, my post was about the affording of fair trials and certainly NOT "Asian" grooming gangs.
 
Lytham

I don't think discussions on Asian grooming gangs were ever banned as such, I don't know who suggested that they were but it certainly wasn't me so strange that you choose to ask me why ?

There are not really any forum rules as such or perhaps I should say that there are certainly no rules that are applied consistently.

My point was more about everybody being entitled to a trial regardless of their creed, colour or succession to the throne !!!!!!!!!!

Please note that I referred to grooming gangs and not "Asian" grooming gangs as you have done yourself.

When anybody refers to grooming gangs on here it doesn't take too long before they face ridiculous accusations of racism, this happens even when they highlight cases where the perpetrators have been tried and convicted.

With that in mind, I find it rather strange how willing some posters appear to be to convict Prince Andrew without trial ?

In summary, my post was about the affording of fair trials and certainly NOT "Asian" grooming gangs.
You're missing the nuances of the posts, either deliberately or not.
 
Lytham

I don't think discussions on Asian grooming gangs were ever banned as such, I don't know who suggested that they were but it certainly wan't me so strange that you choose to ask me why ?
The only word at issue here is the word "Asian". And as you, Curryman and one or two others talk about them to the exclusion of all other such gangs you can see the problem.

If you bang on about race all the time, people start expecting to see it in everything you post. It's your own fault, really.
 
You're missing the nuances of the posts, either deliberately or not.

Lytham

I'm not missing anything.

I simply pointed out that it would appear that on AVFTT, you can often be questioned and face ridiculous accusations when discussing grooming gangs that have been tried and convicted yet there doesn't appear to be a problem with convicting Prince Andrew without trial.

It was you who decided to introduce "Asian" grooming gangs and not me, sorry if that disappoints you but it's all there for everybody to see.

Why did you choose to ask me when discussion on "Asian" grooming gangs were banned ?
 
The only word at issue here is the word "Asian". And as you, Curryman and one or two others talk about them to the exclusion of all other such gangs you can see the problem.

If you bang on about race all the time, people start expecting to see it in everything you post. It's your own fault, really.

Coppice

It is clear from your response that you believe that the only word at issue here is the word "Asian".

I don't necessarily think that's the case but that's what you have said.

Given that you are clearly of the opinion that the only word at issue is the word "Asian" and that this word was introduced by Lytham, I find it very strange that you should choose to inform me that I "bang on about race all the time" ?

Your obvious agenda against me is becoming rather boring.
 
They were never banned and are a regular topic of conversation, that typically results in concensus that the acts are abhorrent and the perpetrators deserve lengthy prison sentences.

It's quite ironic really to think that you can simultaneously state that "It's against the rules to highlight the problem of grooming gangs", whilst actually highlighting the problem of grooming gangs.

"I realise that current topic of conversation Sausage Dogs and I note with interest that 20toGo has managed to succesfully breed championship standard dogs over a sustained period, but I can't help but feel that we shouldn't really be talking about the matter of Sausage Dogs without first considering the problem of Asian Grooming Gangs."

Talking of irony.

We are discussing Prince Andrew and some appear to be willing to convict him without trial.

"I realise that but Lytham has decided to ask SEASIDE2020 about "Asian" grooming gangs so I think it is more important that we accuse SEASIDE2020 of being racist despite the FACT that he has never discriminated against anybody or prejudiced against anybody".
 
Coppice

It is clear from your response that you believe that the only word at issue here is the word "Asian".

I don't necessarily think that's the case but that's what you have said.

Given that you are clearly of the opinion that the only word at issue is the word "Asian" and that this word was introduced by Lytham, I find it very strange that you should choose to inform me that I "bang on about race all the time" ?

Your obvious agenda against me is becoming rather boring.

I think you have missed the point that I was making, but never mind. As for the race issue, it was you who managed to introduce Asians into a conversation about a white, upper class and hugely privileged man.

I apologise for boring you. My wife sends you her sympathies.
 
We are discussing Prince Andrew and some appear to be willing to convict him without trial.
No, we are not. There is now going to be a civil court case so PA has every opportunity to go over to New York and present his side of the story for a full and fair hearing. Unless he settles out of court, of course, without admitting liability but covering his reputation in shite.

If you read my posts carefully, you will see I do not convict him, just point out the possibilities and what I think the likely outcome could now be, given his protection by the establishment. It’s a civil case so judged on the balance of probabilities not a conviction “without reasonable doubt”. That photo alone weighs very heavily on him.

The reason it’s gone to civil court is that he has refused to cooperate with the FBI’s criminal investigations, and this is the only way to hold him to account, given the extreme reluctance of the US Govt to press any federal charges because of the diplomatic chaos that would cause.

But if continues as he has been doing, ignoring everything and unwilling to present his evidence, there will probably be a judgement in absentia against him, damages in the millions, and his public life as a Royal will forever be gone and his career as an alleged nonce will be fully fledged. Mud will stick unless he proves otherwise. He is no longer an acceptable presence in “polite society” already.
 
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I think you have missed the point that I was making, but never mind. As for the race issue, it was you who managed to introduce Asians into a conversation about a white, upper class and hugely privileged man.

I apologise for boring you. My wife sends you her sympathies.

Coppice

It was Lytham who introduced Asians into the conversation, it's all there for everybody to see.

Perhaps that's not important when all you are interested in doing is trying to paint me as a racist ?

You are getting more and more desperate all the time.
 
Not for one minute expecting Andrew to go to a USA court over this, unless he is somehow extradited.
Can you imagine the character assassinations on both sides?
Highly doubt there will be any favourable result either.
 
Coppice

It was Lytham who introduced Asians into the conversation, it's all there for everybody to see.

Perhaps that's not important when all you are interested in doing is trying to paint me as a racist ?

You are getting more and more desperate all the time.
I do beg your pardon, you are quite right. You introduced grooming gangs and said we weren't allowed to talk about them. And then promptly did. Like others, I assumed you meant Asian gangs because...... hang on, haven't we done this already?
 
No, we are not. There is now going to be a civil court case so PA has every opportunity to go over to New York and present his side of the story for a full and fair hearing. Unless he settles out of court, of course, without admitting liability but covering his reputation in shite.

If you read my posts carefully, you will see I do not convict him, just point out his options and what I think the likely outcome could now be, given his protection by the establishment. It’s a civil case so judged on the balance of probabilities not a conviction “without reasonable doubt”.

But if continues as he has been doing, ignoring everything, his public life as a Royal is over and his career as an alleged nonce will be fully fledged. Mud will stick unless he proves otherwise. He is no longer an acceptable presence in “society”.

Archie

Sorry but I was talking generally.

What you say about your own posts may or may not be correct but it is clear from several other posts - not yours - that folk are willing to convict him without trial.

I think it's fair to say that the "rules" - not any official rules - on whether somebody should be allowed a fair trial and are genuinely considered innocent until proven guilty or whether they can be convicted by a kangaroo court are not applied consistently.

I'm sure that this is not the only forum where that's the case.
 
What you say about your own posts may or may not be correct but it is clear from several other posts - not yours - that folk are willing to convict him without trial.

I think it's fair to say that the "rules" - not any official rules - on whether somebody should be allowed a fair trial and are genuinely considered innocent until proven guilty or whether they can be convicted by a kangaroo court are not applied consistently.
That’s the “Court of Public Opinion” for you, whether fair or not. It will inevitably reach its own judgement in the absence of a real trial.
But are you saying the New York Civil Court is a “kangaroo court”?
 
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I do beg your pardon, you are quite right. You introduced grooming gangs and said we weren't allowed to talk about them. And then promptly did. Like others, I assumed you meant Asian gangs because...... hang on, haven't we done this already?

Coppice

Just look at some other threads where posters have started threads on grooming gangs and you know full well that they are often censored by the moderation and/or the moderator is allowed to make frivolous accusations against certain posters.

I would imagine that I have never started a thread on grooming gangs on AVFTT but I won't be apologising if I have done.

The same can not be said of you as in your previous guises you have started threads to inform us of grooming/sex crimes committed by white Britons.

I can not be held responsible for your assumption that grooming gangs meant "Asian" grooming gangs only you would know why you chose to make such an assumption ?

Males of Pakistani origin are disproportionately responsible for grooming crimes in this country but I wouldn't know whether or not that influenced you.
 
Males of Pakistani origin are disproportionately responsible for grooming crimes in this country but I wouldn't know whether or not that influenced you.
That’s just not true. The Home Office has found otherwise, that most sexual grooming offences are committed by white males under 30. It’s just that there have been several recent high-profile cases involving Asian gangs.

I guess you would have to explain your use of the word “disproportionately”. But let’s not discriminate, all nonces are criminally evil.
 
That’s the “Court of Public Opinion” for you, whether fair or not. It will inevitably reach its own judgement in the absence of a real trial.
But are you saying the New York Civil Court is a “kangaroo court”?

Archie

No problem Archie.

I never mentioned the New York Civil Court.

I was just questioning the consistency on here, post what you want about Prince Andrew but we have had cases on here where posters have not been allowed to comment on actual happenings because those involved happened to be known to the moderation.

The only thing consistent about the moderation is the inconsistency.

You are certainly right in that it is inevitable that people will discuss Prince Andrew and that will be the case all over the place and not just on AVFTT.
 
Archie

No problem Archie.

I never mentioned the New York Civil Court.

I was just questioning the consistency on here, post what you want about Prince Andrew but we have had cases on here where posters have not been allowed to comment on actual happenings because those involved happened to be known to the moderation.

The only thing consistent about the moderation is the inconsistency.

You are certainly right in that it is inevitable that people will discuss Prince Andrew and that will be the case all over the place and not just on AVFTT.
What was this 2020?
 
That’s just not true. The Home Office has found otherwise, that most sexual grooming offences are committed by white males under 30. It’s just that there have been several recent high-profile cases involving Asian gangs.

I guess you would have to explain your use of the word “disproportionately”. But let’s not discriminate, all nonces are criminally evil.

Archie

I have no reason to doubt you when you say that most grooming offences in Britain are committed by white males under 30.

My use of the word "disproportionately" is just like anybody would use it.

By definition "disproportionately" means having or showing a difference that is not fair, reasonable, or expected : too large or too small in relation to something.

In my specific case, it meant that a bigger percentage of males of Pakistani origin are responsible for grooming crimes than the percentages of other groups.

I am not discriminating for a second and it goes without saying that "all nonces are criminally evil" as you say.
 
Males of Pakistani origin are disproportionately responsible for grooming crimes in this country but I wouldn't know whether or not that influenced you.

I'm not sure that is actually true, is it? If you have evidence I'd be interested to see it.

I don't think any of us can complain about moderation, this topic is getting a full airing as far as I can see. If you have a particular gripe that's different.

As for multiple ID's, I've been accused of being at least four different posters by you and others. Having lurked on here for years, I know it has happened before as well to others. Lashing out like that is a bit childish, and it always seems to happen when you are losing an argument imho.
 
They were never banned and are a regular topic of conversation, that typically results in concensus that the acts are abhorrent and the perpetrators deserve lengthy prison sentences.

It's quite ironic really to think that you can simultaneously state that "It's against the rules to highlight the problem of grooming gangs", whilst actually highlighting the problem of grooming gangs.

"I realise that current topic of conversation Sausage Dogs and I note with interest that 20toGo has managed to succesfully breed championship standard dogs over a sustained period, but I can't help but feel that we shouldn't really be talking about the matter of Sausage Dogs without first considering the problem of Asian Grooming Gangs."
Every discussion point be it weather, holidays, work etc should commence with a brief conversation highlighting Asian grooming gangs then you can move onto the topic of your choice.
I pity the hairdressing industry.
 
I'm not sure that is actually true, is it? If you have evidence I'd be interested to see it.

I don't think any of us can complain about moderation, this topic is getting a full airing as far as I can see. If you have a particular gripe that's different.

As for multiple ID's, I've been accused of being at least four different posters by you and others. Having lurked on here for years, I know it has happened before as well to others. Lashing out like that is a bit childish, and it always seems to happen when you are losing an argument imho.
What does seem to be true is that Asian Males of Pakistani origin are overwhelmingly over-represented (pretty much to the exclusion of everyone else) in regard to a very specific type of sexual grooming crime. The fact that this particular crime appears (at least on the face of it) to have rather different motivation than certain other child sexual abuse makes it unique or unusual...
 
That’s just not true. The Home Office has found otherwise, that most sexual grooming offences are committed by white males under 30. It’s just that there have been several recent high-profile cases involving Asian gangs.

I guess you would have to explain your use of the word “disproportionately”. But let’s not discriminate, all nonces are criminally evil.

Archie

I have no reason to doubt you when you say that most grooming offences in Britain are committed by white males under 30.

My use of the word "disproportionately" is just like anybody would use it.

By definition "disproportionately" means having or showing a difference that is not fair, reasonable, or expected : too large or too small in relation to something.

In my specific case, it meant that a bigger percentage of males of Pakistani origin are responsible for grooming crimes than the percentages of other groups.

I am not discriminating for a second and it goes without saying that "all nonces are criminally evil" as you say.
 
They were never banned and are a regular topic of conversation, that typically results in concensus that the acts are abhorrent and the perpetrators deserve lengthy prison sentences.

It's quite ironic really to think that you can simultaneously state that "It's against the rules to highlight the problem of grooming gangs", whilst actually highlighting the problem of grooming gangs.

"I realise that current topic of conversation Sausage Dogs and I note with interest that 20toGo has managed to succesfully breed championship standard dogs over a sustained period, but I can't help but feel that we shouldn't really be talking about the matter of Sausage Dogs without first considering the problem of Asian Grooming Gangs."
Quite surprised we haven’t had a storming reposte from 20’s saying he breeds Daschunds and not sausage dogs, as specifically mentioned in the post.
 
I'm not sure that is actually true, is it? If you have evidence I'd be interested to see it.

I don't think any of us can complain about moderation, this topic is getting a full airing as far as I can see. If you have a particular gripe that's different.

As for multiple ID's, I've been accused of being at least four different posters by you and others. Having lurked on here for years, I know it has happened before as well to others. Lashing out like that is a bit childish, and it always seems to happen when you are losing an argument imho.

Coppice

I think it's fair to say that you have multiple identities on here.

If you are not Robbie then I apologise profusely.


How am I losing an argument ?

I think it's perfectly clear that we finished discussing matters after it had been demonstrated that Lytham introduced "Asian" grooming gangs.

How on earth could anybody be of the opinion that I was losing an argument ?
 
Quite surprised we haven’t had a storming reposte from 20’s saying he breeds Daschunds and not sausage dogs, as specifically mentioned in the post.
Daschunds!! That's the word I was looking for.

Jeez... That's getting old for you... I couldn't think of the 'official' name, so had to refer to the 'small childlike' name for them. In fairness, 20's strikes me as more of a Goldfish kind of bloke in any case.
 
Coppice

I think it's fair to say that you have multiple identities on here.

If you are not Robbie then I apologise profusely.


How am I losing an argument ?

I think it's perfectly clear that we finished discussing matters after it had been demonstrated that Lytham introduced "Asian" grooming gangs.

How on earth could anybody be of the opinion that I was losing an argument ?

If you don't think you are losing the argument, fine, I can't be bothered arguing with you. And I accept your apology. I'm off to the football side now to all about something more interesting.
 
Prince Andrew now has the choice of whether to enter that courtroom to prove his innocence... or not.
This seems to sum up his position quite well.
Isn’t he now claiming some form of Crown Immunity or Sovereign Immunity because he was “working” as a Royal Family member at the time of the - alleged 🤔 - abuse?

Which is a reasonable shield to hide behind for the perfectly innocent innit.

Makes you wonder about all the “Sovereignty” issues the Brexiteers fought tooth and nail over though doesn’t it?
 
Child sex slave indeed! She was 17, a prostitute, knew what AND who she was doing and got paid enormously for it. She's now on her arse looking for compo.
 
You're entitled to your opinion too - it's called social media.
I’m sorry, but your opinion shows no understanding of the crime of Child Sexual Exploitation, and suggests you think the girl is the guilty party instead of the men who had sex with a minor, just because they rewarded her for letting them.
 
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