If you are blaming Appleton then you are an idiot

NewburyOne said:
I'm not disputing the fact our recruitment was poor, the point I'm making is that doesn't just absolve Appleton of all blame. He's had plenty of time to get to know the players, yet performances are getting worse. I left Turf Moor thinking we had a chance, when we play on the front foot. Since then it's been pretty much downhill. As for the players, I can tell you for nothing they wouldn't have appreciated some of his comments of late. For your reference, he wasn't particularly liked by the Lincoln players or fans, he has a record of throwing them under the bus and making out he was prime Pirlo in his playing days. He will get more time but that does not make my opinion less valid or incorrect, unfortunately I suspect things will get worse. Out of interest how many games does he need to be given? How many more performances like the majority this season? At some point some will need to start realising he's just not all that and there is a reason he failed to achieve much at Lincoln and Oxford, or any of his previous jobs. There is a trend..
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I think it's a bit dismissive to say he didn't achieve much at Lincoln or Oxford . What exactly is the trend?
 
WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
I see a totally different picture . I see Yates and Lavery running their socks off . I see Eccy at the back making great last ditch tackles . I see Grimmy pulling off some unbelievable saves and I see all the New signings trying to impress . I also see a midfield short of creativity and a Canadian who could have got us some points at Millwall thinking he can score everytime without passing the ball to unmarked strickers.
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I agree with that. But detected a little unrest between certain players?
 
Philbfctrois said:
Not excuses, reasons !!

How about you give the bloke a chance once he can play his first team
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What, like you did with Critchley? 😂

So just to be clear, you're not apportioning any blame to Appleton at the moment? Just so I know, what is Appleton's first team? Or do I have to wait for 3 transfer windows, relegation and 36 more excuse laden, pile of shite, performances?
 
NewburyOne said:
What, like you did with Critchley? 😂

So just to be clear, you're not apportioning any blame to Appleton at the moment? Just so I know, what is Appleton's first team? Or do I have to wait for 3 transfer windows, relegation and 36 more excuse laden, pile of shite, performances?
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I dont think it would be that hard to work out if you followed football and concentrated hard enough to listen to his interviews
 
NewburyOne said:
Bullshit Ben didn't choose to play 5 at the back, Connolly as a wing back and coach the players. We look disorganised, confused and lacking in the basics. Yes, the recruitment was poor but to suggest Appleton shouldn't share the blame is idiotic. He's dull, uninspiring and lacks integrity and his reign can't end soon enough for me.
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Absolutely! Applehead is tactically inept.
 
Philbfctrois said:
I dont think it would be that hard to work out if you followed football and concentrated hard enough to listen to his interviews
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Well enlighten me, put the team down here so I know when I'm allowed to judge the tactical genius you are so adamant hasn't done anything wrong yet!
 
NewburyOne said:
Well enlighten me, put the team down here so I know when I'm allowed to judge the tactical genius you are so adamant hasn't done anything wrong yet!
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It will certainly be a 433 with a specialist right back and a specialist left back, 2 center halves

One holding midfield player with 2 midfield play makers

One mobile central striker and 2 wide men (one left footed and one right footed for balance)

Not sure we have had that yet have we?
 
Appleton has to get until the end of the season but he has to get some joy in the January transfer window, which isn't guaranteed. However if we keep getting injuries or players take longer to come back there is a real chance we could go on a bad run. The squad is lacking Championship quality players, it was last season and the recruitment has been terrible for the last 2 windows, in fact no experienced number 6 who is a quality Championship player has been missing ever since we got back to the Championship. I think Quitchley saw the writing on the wall and that helped him decide to move on.

I fear that if we do have a poor run of results between now and the World Cup, the supporters will be raging at Sadler to sack Appleton and I can see him doing it. Be a mistake for me, but who the fuck thought a 4 year contract was a good idea for a manager who they knew was on a hiding to nothing with the supporters when they signed him? It seems like the off field stuff they have a good handle on it, but on the field the powers that be seem to be very much Fred Carno and I am not convinced they really know what they are doing.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Appleton has to get until the end of the season but he has to get some joy in the January transfer window, which isn't guaranteed. However if we keep getting injuries or players take longer to come back there is a real chance we could go on a bad run. The squad is lacking Championship quality players, it was last season and the recruitment has been terrible for the last 2 windows, in fact no experienced number 6 who is a quality Championship player has been missing ever since we got back to the Championship. I think Quitchley saw the writing on the wall and that helped him decide to move on.

I fear that if we do have a poor run of results between now and the World Cup, the supporters will be raging at Sadler to sack Appleton and I can see him doing it. Be a mistake for me, but who the fuck thought a 4 year contract was a good idea for a manager who they knew was on a hiding to nothing with the supporters when they signed him? It seems like the off field stuff they have a good handle on it, but on the field the powers that be seem to be very much Fred Carno and I am not convinced they really know what they are doing.
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I actually think we have some exciting players that with a good wind Apples will get firing at some point very soon, been hit hard with injuries,
but we have a tough run of games coming he needs to work out a system to eek some points out or he may not see the end of the season.
 
NewburyOne said:
The hand he's been dealt is a Championship managers job with a reasonably settled squad and a club on an upwards trajectory. There really aren't many jobs where a manager gets that luxury, as normally it's due to relegation, complete lack of form or because the club has a nutter for an owner. We signed plenty in the summer, only time will tell if they are of the right quality. If your saying Appleton is faultless and can only work when all conditions are perfect, I can tell you now, he's the wrong man for BFC.
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We didn't sign plenty in the summer though. Plenty of loans, yes but as for proper signings we have made 2 first team signings, Thompson and Wright, and we don't know if Wright is first team material or not. We have also signed Lyons who we get in January, but again an unknown quantity and very young again, the other signings have been for the development squad. We should have signed at least 3 experienced players but have failed miserably plus we have lost Keogh & Bowler.

If you want a team from what we have available now it would be:

Maxwell (for experience)

Gabriel
Marv
Thorniley
Husband

Dougall (not good enough)
Patino
Carey

Yates
Madine
Poveda

Ideally we would play Stewart, Fiorini (in place of Dougall and Carey) and I would then have a new forward to allow Yates to play in the middle of the 3 and an experienced centre half and an experienced central midfielder. But there are injury problems with that and the players in the squad aren't good enough to come and cover for most of those players. Hence we are lacking in players we need for this league. It's okay having young loan players but we need players we have signed. Come the summer all the loans will be gone and many of the current squad will be gone too. Do you trust the board to get the players in we need if we are in the Championship still.
 
Hazi said:
I actually think we have some exciting players that with a good wind Apples will get firing at some point very soon, been hit hard with injuries,
but we have a tough run of games coming he needs to work out a system to eek some points out or he may not see the end of the season.
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What young lads?
 
Hazi said:
I actually think we have some exciting players that with a good wind Apples will get firing at some point very soon, been hit hard with injuries,
but we have a tough run of games coming he needs to work out a system to eek some points out or he may not see the end of the season.
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I agree with that, we do have some exciting prospects, i just hope he gets time and doesn't get the negative Nigels from Newbury on his case
 
hertfordseasider said:
We didn't sign plenty in the summer though. Plenty of loans, yes but as for proper signings we have made 2 first team signings, Thompson and Wright, and we don't know if Wright is first team material or not. We have also signed Lyons who we get in January, but again an unknown quantity and very young again, the other signings have been for the development squad. We should have signed at least 3 experienced players but have failed miserably plus we have lost Keogh & Bowler.

If you want a team from what we have available now it would be:

Maxwell (for experience)

Gabriel
Marv
Thorniley
Husband

Dougall (not good enough)
Patino
Carey

Yates
Madine
Poveda

Ideally we would play Stewart, Fiorini (in place of Dougall and Carey) and I would then have a new forward to allow Yates to play in the middle of the 3 and an experienced centre half and an experienced central midfielder. But there are injury problems with that and the players in the squad aren't good enough to come and cover for most of those players. Hence we are lacking in players we need for this league. It's okay having young loan players but we need players we have signed. Come the summer all the loans will be gone and many of the current squad will be gone too. Do you trust the board to get the players in we need if we are in the Championship still.
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We can only have a squad of 25. I'm also not disputing it wasn't a great transfer window. But Phylis seems to think the sun shines out of Appleton's backside, and is incapable of seeing some of our failings so far are down to him and his poor selection/tactics of late.
 
hertfordseasider said:
We didn't sign plenty in the summer though. Plenty of loans, yes but as for proper signings we have made 2 first team signings, Thompson and Wright, and we don't know if Wright is first team material or not. We have also signed Lyons who we get in January, but again an unknown quantity and very young again, the other signings have been for the development squad. We should have signed at least 3 experienced players but have failed miserably plus we have lost Keogh & Bowler.

If you want a team from what we have available now it would be:

Maxwell (for experience)

Gabriel
Marv
Thorniley
Husband

Dougall (not good enough)
Patino
Carey

Yates
Madine
Poveda

Ideally we would play Stewart, Fiorini (in place of Dougall and Carey) and I would then have a new forward to allow Yates to play in the middle of the 3 and an experienced centre half and an experienced central midfielder. But there are injury problems with that and the players in the squad aren't good enough to come and cover for most of those players. Hence we are lacking in players we need for this league. It's okay having young loan players but we need players we have signed. Come the summer all the loans will be gone and many of the current squad will be gone too. Do you trust the board to get the players in we need if we are in the Championship still.
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For the record, this is what my strongest 11, when fit, would be:

Grimshaw
Gabriel Ekipeteta Thornily Thompson
Fiorini Stewart Patino
Poveda Yates Anderson

Based on what we have available and how I'd line up against Norwich:

Grimshaw
Gabriel Ekipeteta Thornily Thompson
Carey Dougall Patino
Poveda Yates Corbeanu

There's no point a manager banging on about his football philosophy and previous coaching achievements if he hasn't got the courage of his convictions, excuses are for losers.
 
NewburyOne said:
For the record, this is what my strongest 11, when fit, would be:

Grimshaw
Gabriel Ekipeteta Thornily Thompson
Fiorini Stewart Patino
Poveda Yates Anderson

Based on what we have available and how I'd line up against Norwich:

Grimshaw
Gabriel Ekipeteta Thornily Thompson
Carey Dougall Patino
Poveda Yates Corbeanu

There's no point a manager banging on about his football philosophy and previous coaching achievements if he hasn't got the courage of his convictions, excuses are for losers.
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Husband should be in there instead of Thompson… Thompson is like a headless chicken.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Husband should be in there instead of Thompson… Thompson is like a headless chicken.
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It's a tight call, Thompson looked good in a back 4 and can actually cross a ball. Husband I like, he's a solid player but offers nothing and I mean nothing going forward. I don't think I've ever seen a worse crosser of a ball.
 
Philbfctrois said:
It will certainly be a 433 with a specialist right back and a specialist left back, 2 center halves

One holding midfield player with 2 midfield play makers

One mobile central striker and 2 wide men (one left footed and one right footed for balance)

Not sure we have had that yet have we?
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Just for the record we played 4-3-3 in the first 2 league games (and Barrow).
We had Connolly at RB and Madine in the middle of the front 3 in both those games, neither of whom fit your description of what we need, ie specialist and mobile respectively.
The mid-field 3 were Carey, Fiorini and Virtue. I seem to recall Fiorini had the No.6 role.
This thread isn't my argument but just one point to make is that it was lot easier to back Quitch in League 1, where financially we were more competitive, than it is to back Appy in the Championship, where we aren't.
 
Insider said:
Just for the record we played 4-3-3 in the first 2 league games (and Barrow).
We had Connolly at RB and Madine in the middle of the front 3 in both those games, neither of whom fit your description of what we need, ie specialist and mobile respectively.
The mid-field 3 were Carey, Fiorini and Virtue. I seem to recall Fiorini had the No.6 role.
This thread isn't my argument but just one point to make is that it was lot easier to back Quitch in League 1, where financially we were more competitive, than it is to back Appy in the Championship, where we aren't.
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Yep like a said we haven't played what I suggested yet
 
There's a long list of things that aren't Appleton's fault. The only thing I really question so far is the fact he hasn't tried Carey with Patino when Sonny - Connolly - Patino would be a brave, youthful and possibly quite interesting midfield 3. It might also be a disastrously callow spine but let's not die wondering. Sonny is going to be desperate to play against Norwich for sure. I would personally be keen to see him as the roving attack minded midfielder whilst Patino floats a bit deeper and Connolly does the dirtier work.

Outside of that, I think a lot of what some people ascribe to his 'shortcomings' are basically circumstances that have dictated things.

We had Colin Hendry 14 months ffs. We can reserve judgement on Appleton a little longer.

I do slightly resent that Phil's 3 lines gets up towards a triple century whereas my attempt to say the same thing he said but through the medium of a catering analogy that took 2000 words scored about 12... 🤣
 
td53 said:
There's a long list of things that aren't Appleton's fault. The only thing I really question so far is the fact he hasn't tried Carey with Patino when Sonny - Connolly - Patino would be a brave, youthful and possibly quite interesting midfield 3. It might also be a disastrously callow spine but let's not die wondering. Sonny is going to be desperate to play against Norwich for sure. I would personally be keen to see him as the roving attack minded midfielder whilst Patino floats a bit deeper and Connolly does the dirtier work.

Outside of that, I think a lot of what some people ascribe to his 'shortcomings' are basically circumstances that have dictated things.

We had Colin Hendry 14 months ffs. We can reserve judgement on Appleton a little longer.

I do slightly resent that Phil's 3 lines gets up towards a triple century whereas my attempt to say the same thing he said but through the medium of a catering analogy that took 2000 words scored about 12... 🤣
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And to think I only came back to stop you pestering me 😉
 
To say he’s tactically inept is a little harsh. We’ve played some good stuff and when it’s not worked out, his substitutions have been pretty good And changed the game. but when you’re down to bare bones, our best player has been sold and you've not landed any targets it’s difficult to play your best starting 11.
as I’ve said before, something isn’t quite right at the club.
 
NewburyOne said:
It's a tight call, Thompson looked good in a back 4 and can actually cross a ball. Husband I like, he's a solid player but offers nothing and I mean nothing going forward. I don't think I've ever seen a worse crosser of a ball.
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And here was me thinking the lad with the topknot involved in the build up to our goal on Saturday by overlapping then playing a lovely little pass was Jimmy Husband....

Must have been someone else with a top knot...
 
Philbfctrois said:
And to think I only came back to stop you pestering me 😉
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Just on a point of clarification. When Quitch arrived he was all about 4-3-3 (The Liverpool way).
Whilst I stand to be corrected I'm sure one of your (many) criticisms was that he should play 4-4-2 which he actually ended up playing somewhat successfully.
Personally I think we are in the same position squad wise, after all this time, in that we still don't have the right players for 4-3-3.
However you now seem to be advocating that 4-3-3 under Appy.
Do you think 4-3-3 will solve our current mini slump with the squad we've got or do we have to wait and try again in January to strengthen in those key areas (RB?, CM & CF)?
 
td53 said:
And here was me thinking the lad with the topknot involved in the build up to our goal on Saturday by overlapping then playing a lovely little pass was Jimmy Husband....

Must have been someone else with a top knot...
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That was a pass, not a cross. As I said, I like Hubby but crossing is definitely not his strength.
 
Insider said:
Just on a point of clarification. When Quitch arrived he was all about 4-3-3 (The Liverpool way).
Whilst I stand to be corrected I'm sure one of your (many) criticisms was that he should play 4-4-2 which he actually ended up playing somewhat successfully.
Personally I think we are in the same position squad wise, after all this time, in that we still don't have the right players for 4-3-3.
However you now seem to be advocating that 4-3-3 under Appy.
Do you think 4-3-3 will solve our current mini slump with the squad we've got or do we have to wait and try again in January to strengthen in those key areas (RB?, CM & CF)?
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Yeah in League 1 I thought we needed Madine and we did so a 442 made sense in that league

I'm less convinced we need Madine now, especially as a lone striker in a 3
 
NewburyOne said:
That was a pass, not a cross. As I said, I like Hubby but crossing is definitely not his strength.
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You said he offers *nothing, literally nothing* in an attacking sense!

His crossing isn't great but tbh, sans Madine, what's the point in a cross anyway?

His passing, for a left back/centre half is very good,his movement is terrific too. He does offer *something* I m.o.
 
td53 said:
And here was me thinking the lad with the topknot involved in the build up to our goal on Saturday by overlapping then playing a lovely little pass was Jimmy Husband....

Must have been someone else with a top knot...
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Apart from all the good things he does, like being solid defensively, decent passer, experienced, great character etc... hes shit....
 
td53 said:
You said he offers *nothing, literally nothing* in an attacking sense!

His crossing isn't great but tbh, sans Madine, what's the point in a cross anyway?

His passing, for a left back/centre half is very good,his movement is terrific too. He does offer *something* I m.o.
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Maybe nothing was harsh, but he really doesn't offer much going forward and I stand by my comment about his crossing, it is terrible. That includes games when he have had a target man in Madine or Nando. I'll repeat, I like Husband, as I do Thompson in a 4. Gabriel, Ekipeteta, Thornily, Husband/Thompson is decent enough for this level.

The truth is, we are short in certain areas but our core squad is good, filled with some great characters. I fear Appleton's changes in some respects, we really needed to use the Bowler money to replace him and add a couple of bits of proven Championship quality. I just get the feeling the new manager wants to rip it all up and start again. I dislike the fact he's already blaming players, as he did last season at Lincoln and other clubs when results didn't go his way.
 
NewburyOne said:
Maybe nothing was harsh, but he really doesn't offer much going forward and I stand by my comment about his crossing, it is terrible. That includes games when he have had a target man in Madine or Nando. I'll repeat, I like Husband, as I do Thompson in a 4. Gabriel, Ekipeteta, Thornily, Husband/Thompson is decent enough for this level.

The truth is, we are short in certain areas but our core squad is good, filled with some great characters. I fear Appleton's changes in some respects, we really needed to use the Bowler money to replace him and add a couple of bits of proven Championship quality. I just get the feeling the new manager wants to rip it all up and start again. I dislike the fact he's already blaming players, as he did last season at Lincoln and other clubs when results didn't go his way.
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I would rather a manager be honest than the rubbish Critchley came out with

Critchley said we were the better team away at Preston. It was probably one of the worse derby day defeats I've seen for a long time
 
Philbfctrois said:
I would rather a manager be honest than the rubbish Critchley came out with

Critchley said we were the better team away at Preston. It was probably one of the worse derby day defeats I've seen for a long time
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It was horrendous that shout.

Close 2nd was continuously telling everyone Josh Bowler was fatigued for those last 4 or 5 games. Insulting but his departure in the summer highlighted the way he operates.
 
CGP1 said:
This season so far he has struggled.

But based on last year I'd be happy to have him as one of the contenders for the attacking mid slots.
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It's a big step up for Carey people forget it wasn't that long ago he was playing non league
 
Philbfctrois said:
I would rather a manager be honest than the rubbish Critchley came out with

Critchley said we were the better team away at Preston. It was probably one of the worse derby day defeats I've seen for a long time
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And yet Appleton says it as it is and gets slated by the avftt masses🙁 just weird
 
RP North Stand said:
What has Carey done on the pitch again? Please remind me
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Can think of at least 4 games last year of the top of my head where he was excellent - Reading away, Boro home in the cup, Sheff Utd away and Hudds away.

Given Critchley barely played him and he was straight out of non-league that's a reasonable return.
 
NewburyOne said:
Maybe nothing was harsh, but he really doesn't offer much going forward and I stand by my comment about his crossing, it is terrible. That includes games when he have had a target man in Madine or Nando. I'll repeat, I like Husband, as I do Thompson in a 4. Gabriel, Ekipeteta, Thornily, Husband/Thompson is decent enough for this level.

The truth is, we are short in certain areas but our core squad is good, filled with some great characters. I fear Appleton's changes in some respects, we really needed to use the Bowler money to replace him and add a couple of bits of proven Championship quality. I just get the feeling the new manager wants to rip it all up and start again. I dislike the fact he's already blaming players, as he did last season at Lincoln and other clubs when results didn't go his way.
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I don't understand your last paragraph as the transfer window has closed
 
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