Interesting Covid Developments...

Lytham_fy8

Lytham_fy8

Well-known member
From the BBC

In what passes for relative transparency in the US government, the Biden administration has conceded the American intelligence community is split on Covid-19's origins - it could be the lab or animal-to-human contact - and no-one is near certain about it.

That marks a big shift from the derision heaped on the lab theory by many in the media and politics last year, when Donald Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Senator Tom Cotton and others floated the idea.

Mr Trump and Mr Pompeo didn't help the situation, however, as they were coy about the grounds for their suspicion. And their theories floating alongside more far-fetched ones, such as that the disease was manufactured as a bioweapon in a Chinese lab. That possibility still seem highly unlikely.

The public may never know the full truth about the virus' origins, particularly if China continues to be uncooperative.

Mr Biden is pledging a full investigation, however, and if the US finds conclusive evidence of a lab leak, it will mean more than just a few prominent figures having to eat crow and re-evaluate their trust in authoritative "conclusions".

It could place very real strain on US-China relations for years to come.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
From the BBC

In what passes for relative transparency in the US government, the Biden administration has conceded the American intelligence community is split on Covid-19's origins - it could be the lab or animal-to-human contact - and no-one is near certain about it.

That marks a big shift from the derision heaped on the lab theory by many in the media and politics last year, when Donald Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Senator Tom Cotton and others floated the idea.

Mr Trump and Mr Pompeo didn't help the situation, however, as they were coy about the grounds for their suspicion. And their theories floating alongside more far-fetched ones, such as that the disease was manufactured as a bioweapon in a Chinese lab. That possibility still seem highly unlikely.

The public may never know the full truth about the virus' origins, particularly if China continues to be uncooperative.

Mr Biden is pledging a full investigation, however, and if the US finds conclusive evidence of a lab leak, it will mean more than just a few prominent figures having to eat crow and re-evaluate their trust in authoritative "conclusions".

It could place very real strain on US-China relations for years to come.
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I’d hate to imagine what would happen if it was proved irrefutably that it was a man made virus leaked for whatever reason by China, and they covered up.
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d hate to imagine what would happen if it was proved irrefutably that it was a man made virus leaked for whatever reason by China, and they covered up.
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I think most likely it leaked from the lab in Wuhan but not on purpose, but China are still covering it up.

I remember reading - a non conspiracy theory article - talking about the lab in Wuhan, the scientists from the lab would actively go out to very remote caves/habitats to find bats with new variants of coronaviruses. I just think it's way too much of a coincidence that this lab was only a few kilometres away from the theorised epicentre of this virus - it's not like you have coronavirus research labs in every city.
 
BWseasider said:
I think most likely it leaked from the lab in Wuhan but not on purpose, but China are still covering it up.

I remember reading - a non conspiracy theory article - talking about the lab in Wuhan, the scientists from the lab would actively go out to very remote caves/habitats to find bats with new variants of coronaviruses. I just think it's way too much of a coincidence that this lab was only a few kilometres away from the theorised epicentre of this virus - it's not like you have coronavirus research labs in every city.
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I theorised very early on that it may have been one of these investigators who caught it during collection of samples.
 
I genuinely didn't think anyone really believed it came from the market when a bio weapons lab over the road was developing such things...

I opened this thread thinking Lytham was going to tell us that following his second jab his hair has fallen out and his nob dropped off 🤣🤣
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
From the BBC

In what passes for relative transparency in the US government, the Biden administration has conceded the American intelligence community is split on Covid-19's origins - it could be the lab or animal-to-human contact - and no-one is near certain about it.

That marks a big shift from the derision heaped on the lab theory by many in the media and politics last year, when Donald Trump, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Senator Tom Cotton and others floated the idea.

Mr Trump and Mr Pompeo didn't help the situation, however, as they were coy about the grounds for their suspicion. And their theories floating alongside more far-fetched ones, such as that the disease was manufactured as a bioweapon in a Chinese lab. That possibility still seem highly unlikely.

The public may never know the full truth about the virus' origins, particularly if China continues to be uncooperative.

Mr Biden is pledging a full investigation, however, and if the US finds conclusive evidence of a lab leak, it will mean more than just a few prominent figures having to eat crow and re-evaluate their trust in authoritative "conclusions".

It could place very real strain on US-China relations for years to come.
Click to expand...
So basically the general consensus is Trump was correct 12 months ago.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I theorised very early on that it may have been one of these investigators who caught it during collection of samples.
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I don't think that even stands up somehow. IF a particular species of bat or whatever passed Covid19 onto a human then the likelihood is that that animal would have had the capability to transfer that virus for hundreds if not thousands of years. So why did it only pass it on in 2019? Was that the first time that bat had any contact with humans? I doubt it..
No, for me, the virus was 'manufactured' by humans...
 
BobHatton said:
I don't think that even stands up somehow. IF a particular species of bat or whatever passed Covid19 onto a human then the likelihood is that that animal would have had the capability to transfer that virus for hundreds if not thousands of years. So why did it only pass it on in 2019? Was that the first time that bat had any contact with humans? I doubt it..
No, for me, the virus was 'manufactured' by humans...
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It's all opinions. Reality is that viruses are coming into humans from animals, HIV and Ebola being examples. Humans are pushing animals into smaller more concentrated areas as they expand, increasing the likelihood of cross species infection. Consumption of animal products, exposure to animal waste products all move viruses. This is not speculation, this is historical fact.
 
BobHatton said:
I don't think that even stands up somehow. IF a particular species of bat or whatever passed Covid19 onto a human then the likelihood is that that animal would have had the capability to transfer that virus for hundreds if not thousands of years. So why did it only pass it on in 2019? Was that the first time that bat had any contact with humans? I doubt it..
No, for me, the virus was 'manufactured' by humans...
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Give over there are 8 billion of us, human population is ever growing. With this means we are expanding and coming into contact with remote species. I'm not sure about the man made theory, serious science still says its zootonic.
 
The bats that are considered the origin of covid are in the province of Yunnan which is the other side of China from Wuhan. Is it not likely that if covid spread from bats to humans organically then the first casualties would have been in Yunnan?

A Chinese team spent years studying these types of viruses with the Yunnan bats most likely to be ones with the spreading the SARS (and probably covid) strains. This team was from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

It's a naturally occurring virus that almost certainly escaped into the general population from a laboratory.

www.nature.com

Bat cave solves mystery of deadly SARS virus — and suggests new outbreak could occur

Chinese scientists find all the genetic building blocks of SARS in a single population of horseshoe bats.
www.nature.com www.nature.com
 
I have no idea if it was man made or evolved from some filthy animal market. But either way it came from China And they have got off very lightly from the whole world, mostly thanks to the apologists trying to blame everyone but.
 
flunet_globalviruscirculation_20210326.PNG
 
This is the problem with social media and misinformation, people blindly flock to either extreme when the truth is *always* somewhere in the middle. Reasonable people end up staying away from anything remotely conspiratorial, whilst nervous people jump on absolutely anything. The former call the latter idiots and give them no choice but to grow stronger in their extreme convictions, whilst the latter call the former brainwashed sheep and have the exact same effect.

We could all benefit from simply asking ‘what makes you think that?’ when we disagree with something.
 
Who has benefited from the pandemic, the online retailer such as Amazon is the obvious choice. In the USA they have 50% of the entire online market which last year grew by over 55% in the last year, in the UK they have a third of the entire market. But if you look closer at Amazon the third party sellers 10 years ago there were less than 10% that were Chinese companies selling on the platform now it is over 50% and growing. China has been busy for the last 10 years buying big companies in the US and EU, in the UK they have over a 134Billion pounds of assets. The aim of china is to be the biggest economic superpower in the world. In simple terms, it's like the game of monopoly, everyone gets to play but one player always ends up with all the money.

So what has this got to do with Covid, well in 2018 the USA under Trump started to take action against China by introducing tariffs.
Although Trump is a narcissist he knows all about monopoly and was well aware of the threat from China, and promised to take firmer action in
his second term. In 2020 covid arrived and the USA economy went into recession, and Trump lost the election.

In 2020 China was the best-performing economy 2020, their big lockdown came at Chinese New Year last year which is the equivalent of our Christmas period, what are the chances. Their lockdowns were brutal, as they have no civil rights. But it quickly crushed the covid virus,
and they closed their borders to stop the infection from outside.


So was covid made in a lab and released deliberately by China, or an accident that escaped from a lab, or just from a market with live animals.
It will be hard to get evidence to prove which theory is correct, but what is certain is that China has done very well from covid.
 
Danny Ocean said:
Who has benefited from the pandemic, the online retailer such as Amazon is the obvious choice. In the USA they have 50% of the entire online market which last year grew by over 55% in the last year, in the UK they have a third of the entire market. But if you look closer at Amazon the third party sellers 10 years ago there were less than 10% that were Chinese companies selling on the platform now it is over 50% and growing. China has been busy for the last 10 years buying big companies in the US and EU, in the UK they have over a 134Billion pounds of assets. The aim of china is to be the biggest economic superpower in the world. In simple terms, it's like the game of monopoly, everyone gets to play but one player always ends up with all the money.

So what has this got to do with Covid, well in 2018 the USA under Trump started to take action against China by introducing tariffs.
Although Trump is a narcissist he knows all about monopoly and was well aware of the threat from China, and promised to take firmer action in
his second term. In 2020 covid arrived and the USA economy went into recession, and Trump lost the election.

In 2020 China was the best-performing economy 2020, their big lockdown came at Chinese New Year last year which is the equivalent of our Christmas period, what are the chances. Their lockdowns were brutal, as they have no civil rights. But it quickly crushed the covid virus,
and they closed their borders to stop the infection from outside.


So was covid made in a lab and released deliberately by China, or an accident that escaped from a lab, or just from a market with live animals.
It will be hard to get evidence to prove which theory is correct, but what is certain is that China has done very well from covid.
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China don't need Covid to become the world super power. Their population outweighs all others and they were already booming and overtaking all competition before Covid came along.
 
A couple of things stand out to me.

We know this lab in China collected bats from Australia to study Coronaviruses. They had the photos on their website early 2020 and removed the images, but not before they made it onto the World Wide Web.

There was that report from 2020 (sources tried to discredit) which basically identified a particular DNA sequence which had been ‘inserted’ into the virus genome and stated the chances of that happening naturally were infinitesimal. The genome had been modified - by human intervention, i.e. in a laboratory.
 
tangerine_neil said:
A couple of things stand out to me.

We know this lab in China collected bats from Australia to study Coronaviruses. They had the photos on their website early 2020 and removed the images, but not before they made it onto the World Wide Web.

There was that report from 2020 (sources tried to discredit) which basically identified a particular DNA sequence which had been ‘inserted’ into the virus genome and stated the chances of that happening naturally were infinitesimal. The genome had been modified - by human intervention, i.e. in a laboratory.
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"There was that report" doesn't bode particularly well for your source work
 
There are millions of different viruses in the human biome which all mutate on a continual basis. Presence of new viruses (which happen all the time naturally and unnaturally) is a perfect ruse for inducing fear and triggering political snd social change (fear of climate change being another) because nobody can prove or disprove theories easily. If you want the real truth and nothing but the truth you better all go grab your tinfoil hats that's for certain. Following the money and seeing who benefits from one narrative winning out over another is the best way to see who actually is in control.
 
Alf said:
This is the problem with social media and misinformation, people blindly flock to either extreme when the truth is *always* somewhere in the middle. Reasonable people end up staying away from anything remotely conspiratorial, whilst nervous people jump on absolutely anything. The former call the latter idiots and give them no choice but to grow stronger in their extreme convictions, whilst the latter call the former brainwashed sheep and have the exact same effect.

We could all benefit from simply asking ‘what makes you think that?’ when we disagree with something.
Click to expand...

Alf

In this case, the truth is certainly NOT in the middle.

I don't know how/why Covid started myself, it could have been man made, it could have been this and it could have been that but there is no middle ground.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
China don't need Covid to become the world super power. Their population outweighs all others and they were already booming and overtaking all competition before Covid came along.
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BHOK

What you say might very well be true but that doesn't mean that China wasn't responsible for Covid or that it certainly didn't create it.

My lazy response to what you say would be, have rich people never been responsible for theft ?
 
The human mindset loves a conspiracy theory. China isn't a particularly pleasant nation but I can't see why they would firstly let a virus run riot through their own population and through the world. It was their particularly love of secrecy and suppressing doctors and local officials that was the real crime. Pandemics tend to come along every 100 years and we overdue one, why does that have to be suspicious? Pandemics in future will stem from Indian or China you know countries that are packed with over 1 billion people.
One question that has to be asked of our govt is why they were so keen to accept Chinese money for infrastructure, universities etc. It's as though they'll accept anything for a quick short term fix, that's the most surprising aspect for me. 🤣
 
Can you still buy bats at markets?

I once saw a sign at Aldi saying they had to recall their Chicken Rooster nuggets due to a problem so was just wondering if the Chinese Bat market has done similar?
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Alf

In this case, the truth is certainly NOT in the middle.

I don't know how/why Covid started myself, it could have been man made, it could have been this and it could have been that but there is no middle ground.
Click to expand...

Completely disagree. If side A says it’s a conspiracy and a cover up, side B says it’s neither, then arguing that it’s not a conspiracy but is a cover up is definitely middle ground between A and B.
 
Ragnarok said:
I genuinely didn't think anyone really believed it came from the market when a bio weapons lab over the road was developing such things...

I opened this thread thinking Lytham was going to tell us that following his second jab his hair has fallen out and his nob dropped off 🤣🤣
Click to expand...
Apparently after seeking medical advice that was unrelated to the jab.
 
Tycho Brahe said:
There are millions of different viruses in the human biome which all mutate on a continual basis. Presence of new viruses (which happen all the time naturally and unnaturally) is a perfect ruse for inducing fear and triggering political snd social change (fear of climate change being another) because nobody can prove or disprove theories easily. If you want the real truth and nothing but the truth you better all go grab your tinfoil hats that's for certain. Following the money and seeing who benefits from one narrative winning out over another is the best way to see who actually is in control.
Click to expand...
How do you know I'm not an Illuminati Grand Master and this thread is simply designed to sow the seeds of confusion?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
It's all opinions. Reality is that viruses are coming into humans from animals, HIV and Ebola being examples. Humans are pushing animals into smaller more concentrated areas as they expand, increasing the likelihood of cross species infection. Consumption of animal products, exposure to animal waste products all move viruses. This is not speculation, this is historical fact.
Click to expand...

Okay, but we know that the lab was conducting "gain of function" experiments on exactly this type of virus, so when a strain emerges that is suspiciously well adapted to the human upper respiritory tract we are entitled to wonder if the two are linked.
 
Alf said:
Completely disagree. If side A says it’s a conspiracy and a cover up, side B says it’s neither, then arguing that it’s not a conspiracy but is a cover up is definitely middle ground between A and B.
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It's not like "The Conservative's have done a good job" though Alfie.

It's objective, there is a right and wrong.
 
TSSeasider said:
They may have more than every country, but the majority live in shit conditions and eat all sorts of crap for dinner as they are absolutely impoverished.
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That's quite an amazing claim. The few people I know from China who still have relatives out there seem quite health conscious especially when it comes to nutrition and food.

Did you see that programme last night on ultra processed foods that are consumed here and the effect on the brain? I doubt very much that processed food consumption is as high over there than it is here.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
It's not like "The Conservative's have done a good job" though Alfie.

It's objective, there is a right and wrong.
Click to expand...

That’s not what I’m saying though. Social media and data companies taint narratives and algorithms force upon us the most marketable opinions/narratives which happen to be extreme views left or right simply because of human nature and what gets us angry/commenting on things. Therefore whilst there is always a right and wrong, assuming that the right and wrong options are being presented to you by the media is silly. The truth might not be presented by any outlet because it’s tainted to at least some extent by agenda and lobbying or even just, as said before, what’s marketable. So when you don’t have access to the source yourself, you are necessarily hedging your bets on which journalist you trust. Therefore it’s more reasonable to assume the two most extreme perspectives on offer are probably the truth twisted by two very different agendas, and a safer bet IMO to boil down what you can from all sources and arrive at a likely middle ground that’s as free from biased information as possible.

Your example is a bad one as well as the definition of ‘good job’ is completely down to personal perspective. But I get your point. Just think you’ve missed mine a bit.

Edit: Having read it back I now realise I completely missed *your* point 😂 multi layered ironic plonkerage from myself
 
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BigHandsOliverKahn said:
That's quite an amazing claim. The few people I know from China who still have relatives out there seem quite health conscious especially when it comes to nutrition and food.

Did you see that programme last night on ultra processed foods that are consumed here and the effect on the brain? I doubt very much that processed food consumption is as high over there than it is here.
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Our style of poor population diet is due to the trappings of wealth.

There's is due to the trappings of impoverishment.

Same reason I can sit here and type this on a phone made in China, where the poor people have no human rights and get 3p an hour for a 15 hour day.

There's a reason why the Communist Party of China crack down on their own population as heavily as they do and it's because they are terrified that any sort of uprising would be impossible to quell.

It'll come eventually, it always does.
 
TSSeasider said:
Our style of poor population diet is due to the trappings of wealth.

There's is due to the trappings of impoverishment.

Same reason I can sit here and type this on a phone made in China, where the poor people have no human rights and get 3p an hour for a 15 hour day.

There's a reason why the Communist Party of China crack down on their own population as heavily as they do and it's because they are terrified that any sort of uprising would be impossible to quell.

It'll come eventually, it always does.
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I wouldn't be surprised if change came but there is a totally different mindset over there where the greater good is more prominent in the minds of people rather than the me, me, me we see in the West. They know they have a huge population and can see the benefit in controlling the population.

Having said that, the computerisation of control is taking it to a whole new level with the Social Credit System and I do wonder if eventually the people will feel too unconfortable with the intrusive nature of that when all systems are linked up together and dropping some litter means you lose so many points, you can never be employed again.
 
Of course China have denied these allegations about Covid being manufactured in their laboratories.
I just hope that there is an uprising by the Chinese people.
Just a very few people have any power, or say, as to what happens in China.
China, like similar regimes, has a disproportionate sized army compared to the population.

Of course it's much the same in any country which calls itself 'The Peoples Republic of ???????? .
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
That's quite an amazing claim. The few people I know from China who still have relatives out there seem quite health conscious especially when it comes to nutrition and food.

Did you see that programme last night on ultra processed foods that are consumed here and the effect on the brain? I doubt very much that processed food consumption is as high over there than it is here.
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Why don’t you just feck off and live over there. Your tiresome derogatory comments about our wonderful country are getting right on my tits.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
That's quite an amazing claim. The few people I know from China who still have relatives out there seem quite health conscious especially when it comes to nutrition and food.

Did you see that programme last night on ultra processed foods that are consumed here and the effect on the brain? I doubt very much that processed food consumption is as high over there than it is here.
Click to expand...
How the fuck can you turn this into a who’s healthier debate the UK or China ffs. so you know a few Chinese that are health conscious and you watched some propaganda on the tv and made an educated decision 😂😂 unbelievable
 
Scaramanga said:
How the fuck can you turn this into a who’s healthier debate the UK or China ffs. so you know a few Chinese that are health conscious and you watched some propaganda on the tv and made an educated decision 😂😂 unbelievable
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Watching propaganda that you like and then regurgitating it on here is pretty much what you do all the time. You're a candidate for the most unthinking poster on either board.
 
JimmyTheFieldmouse said:
Watching propaganda that you like and then regurgitating it on here is pretty much what you do all the time. You're a candidate for the most unthinking poster on either board.
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Amazing how you say that when you only joined AVFTT last monday. Wonder what that makes you a candidate for?
 
JimmyTheFieldmouse said:
I know you're not the brightest, but it is possible to read the board without registering. I was registered on the old site from about three or four years ago, as it happens. I just don't post much.
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So you've had nothing to say or opinions to offer for the last few years and now here you are having a go at posters who've been expressing their views on here for years. Yep, your username is very appropriate.
 
JimmyTheFieldmouse said:
Watching propaganda that you like and then regurgitating it on here is pretty much what you do all the time. You're a candidate for the most unthinking poster on either board.
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Who the fuck are you ? Not seen you on here before, have wetted your appetite for political aggression 😬😬
 
Scaramanga said:
Who the fuck are you ? Not seen you on here before, have wetted your appetite for political aggression 😬😬
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There's why I don't post much, in a nutshell. Two posters who don't seem to have much to offer except for bigotry and aggression. It's a shame, this board seems to bring the worst out in people in a way the Football Board doesn't.
 
JimmyTheFieldmouse said:
There's why I don't post much, in a nutshell. Two posters who don't seem to have much to offer except for bigotry and aggression. It's a shame, this board seems to bring the worst out in people in a way the Football Board doesn't.
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I assume then that you are one of these can give it but can’t take it type of posters then ?
 
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