Interesting rumour re Boris

I have my doubts that he will lead the Party into the next election. I'm not sure he will want to, for one thing ; the people who know him say he is pretty lazy and it is not the right job for anyone who has that character trait. His health is a factor too.

For a second, I also think the Party will throw him to the wolves when he has served his purpose. It is ruthless when it has to be, or when it feels its grip on power is threatened. He's managed to add a few new enemies to those he already had inside the Party since he was elected, and they will have their day.

As an aside, I think people will look back on May far more fondly than they do him. Partly because she genuinely tried to serve Party and country in a way that he never could or would.
 
basilrobbie said:
I have my doubts that he will lead the Party into the next election. I'm not sure he will want to, for one thing ; the people who know him say he is pretty lazy and it is not the right job for anyone who has that character trait. His health is a factor too.

For a second, I also think the Party will throw him to the wolves when he has served his purpose. It is ruthless when it has to be, or when it feels its grip on power is threatened. He's managed to add a few new enemies to those he already had inside the Party since he was elected, and they will have their day.

As an aside, I think people will look back on May far more fondly than they do him. Partly because she genuinely tried to serve Party and country in a way that he never could or would.
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I think that's stretching it a bit. Although she would have been more conscientious at the start of the pandemic, that's for sure.
 
Is it too much to ask for someone energetic, intelligent, trustworthy, with the common sense and clarity of vision to lead the party and not require U-turns every other day?
 
basilrobbie said:
I have my doubts that he will lead the Party into the next election. I'm not sure he will want to, for one thing ; the people who know him say he is pretty lazy and it is not the right job for anyone who has that character trait. His health is a factor too.

For a second, I also think the Party will throw him to the wolves when he has served his purpose. It is ruthless when it has to be, or when it feels its grip on power is threatened. He's managed to add a few new enemies to those he already had inside the Party since he was elected, and they will have their day.

As an aside, I think people will look back on May far more fondly than they do him. Partly because she genuinely tried to serve Party and country in a way that he never could or would.
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Robbie

As per seasideone, you know no more - or less - than anybody about Boris Johnson.

"The people who know him say he is pretty lazy", surely you should say that you think he is lazy because there are people who do know Boris who think that he works too hard - nothing wrong with being of the opinion that the PM is lazy and expressing that view on here but it's just a personal opinion and "the people who know him" addendum is just load of b0110x.
 
"As per seasideone, you know no more - or less -than anybody about Boris Johnson."

But your premise is incorrect, because some posters on here obviously know more than others about certain topics.

And if you read up on Johnson you would quickly come to the conclusion that he is indeed seen as a shirker who always prefers someone else to do the heavy lifting, and is generally interested in a position for the kudos rather than the power it affords.

And there are many dozens of "people who know him" who have gone on record to say just that...
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Robbie

As per seasideone, you know no more - or less - than anybody about Boris Johnson.

"The people who know him say he is pretty lazy", surely you should say that you think he is lazy because there are people who do know Boris who think that he works too hard - nothing wrong with being of the opinion that the PM is lazy and expressing that view on here but it's just a personal opinion and "the people who know him" addendum is just load of b0110x.
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You have absolutely zero idea who my contacts are, so how you can claim that I know no more is utterly naive.

Check my track record of posting on this subject - and please tell me when I have ever been wrong.

You mignt be in for a surprise 👍
 
seasideone said:
You have absolutely zero idea who my contacts are, so how you can claim that I know no more is utterly naive.

Check my track record of posting on this subject - and please tell me when I have ever been wrong.

You mignt be in for a surprise 👍
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Only on AVFTT would you have somebody trying to tell you that they had inside information on the PM.
 
I must say, you all have concerns about BoJo, but quite frankly, who really cares?
As it stands Labour would be beaten be a donkey as prime minister.
Starmer may look good, but I'm afraid he's still dragging along to many nutters in the party.
 
No1_club said:
I must say, you all have concerns about BoJo, but quite frankly, who really cares?
As it stands Labour would be beaten be a donkey as prime minister.
Starmer may look good, but I'm afraid he's still dragging along to many nutters in the party.
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Completely irrelevant much like Ed Davey being appointed as Lib Dem leader.

In December we were told "You lost heavily, suck it up"

Now it's a case of "You're in power and accountable for all policies. Sort it".

No one else can, so only one party is responsible for the whole omnishambles, just like Labour were to blame for a global recession in 2008 according to the Tories.

The problem is, they can't sort the health crisis and the economic situation is also completely out of control. How's the Brexit negotiations going?
 
Wizaard said:
Completely irrelevant much like Ed Davey being appointed as Lib Dem leader.

In December we were told "You lost heavily, suck it up"

Now it's a case of "You're in power and accountable for all policies. Sort it".

No one else can, so only one party is responsible for the whole omnishambles, just like Labour were to blame for a global recession in 2008 according to the Tories.

The problem is, they can't sort the health crisis and the economic situation is also completely out of control. How's the Brexit negotiations going?
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omnishambles😀
Health crisis cannot be solved be politics.
A full lockdown tends to have detrimental affect on economies EVERYWHERE.
Maybe you should have Corbyn on speed dial and ask him where we are going wrong?
 
No1_club said:
omnishambles😀
Health crisis cannot be solved be politics.
A full lockdown tends to have detrimental affect on economies EVERYWHERE.
Maybe you should have Corbyn on speed dial and ask him where we are going wrong?
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Completely irrelevant just as was Labour's responsibility for the global recession wasn't their fault.

On the other hand, this Government's handling of the pandemic should have been so much better.
 
Wizaard said:
Completely irrelevant just as was Labour's responsibility for the global recession wasn't their fault.

On the other hand, this Government's handling of the pandemic should have been so much better.
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How so ?
So much hot air and distain.
But no real substance on an unprecedented virus.
Im afraid your politics is getting in the way of rational thinking
 
No1_club said:
How so ?
So much hot air and distain.
But no real substance on an unprecedented virus.
Im afraid your politics is getting in the way of rational thinking
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Other countries are streets ahead of us in their management of the virus. We've messed up from day one and continue to do so. That's politics.
 
Wizaard said:
Other countries are streets ahead of us in their management of the virus. We've messed up from day one and continue to do so. That's politics.
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Are they really ?
Again 'messed up'!. You are going to have to attach more substance than that.
 
No1_club said:
Are they really ?
Again 'messed up'!. You are going to have to attach more substance than that.
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In what way? The world statistics say we're one of the worst. Crack on if you think they've handled it well. By any objective measure they've failed this country.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Robbie

As per seasideone, you know no more - or less - than anybody about Boris Johnson.

"The people who know him say he is pretty lazy", surely you should say that you think he is lazy because there are people who do know Boris who think that he works too hard - nothing wrong with being of the opinion that the PM is lazy and expressing that view on here but it's just a personal opinion and "the people who know him" addendum is just load of b0110x.
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Quite. Hence "the people who know him". Not me, as I didn't say I did. And I must read the same newspapers as seasideone. Although I'm surprised he is a subscriber to "Kill Bury and Bolton Illustrated".
 
Wizaard said:
In what way? The world statistics say we're one of the worst. Crack on if you think they've handled it well. By any objective measure they've failed this country.
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No one has handled it 'well', lucky more like.
What did we do differently to anyone else ?
Our relatively unfit population with many old people barely clinging onto life were found unfortunately vunerable.
I'll crack on knowing that the government did there best to uphold a lockdown which was mainly a success due to furlough payments. Now the attention has to turn towards getting the economy rolling again whilst treading cautiously with the virus.
 
basilrobbie said:
Quite. Hence "the people who know him". Not me, as I didn't say I did. And I must read the same newspapers as seasideone. Although I'm surprised he is a subscriber to "Kill Bury and Bolton Illustrated".
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All this "people who know him", "they say", "I've heard" are disguises for people expressing their opinions.

It's clear that you are of the opinion that Boris is lazy.

On your other point re May being remembered more fondly than Boris, she might well be but only in the same way that Neil Kinnock and Michael Foot will be remembered more fondly than the likes of Blair and Thatcher.

More importantly and whether or not as individuals we liked their policies and/or personalities, the electorate judged Thatcher and Blair and they have also judged May and Boris and Boris was outstandingly successful and May not so.
 
No1_club said:
No one has handled it 'well', lucky more like.
What did we do differently to anyone else ?
Our relatively unfit population with many old people barely clinging onto life were found unfortunately vunerable.
I'll crack on knowing that the government did there best to uphold a lockdown which was mainly a success due to furlough payments. Now the attention has to turn towards getting the economy rolling again whilst treading cautiously with the virus.
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Your defence falls down on them doing their best to uphold a lockdown, when the policy designer decided the rules didn't apply to him, leading to a sense of it didn't apply to anyone.

Furlough has indeed papered over the cracks but it needs to be paid for eventually. How does the party of low taxation deal with that conundrum? Interesting times.
 
spudgun said:
"As per seasideone, you know no more - or less -than anybody about Boris Johnson."

But your premise is incorrect, because some posters on here obviously know more than others about certain topics.

And if you read up on Johnson you would quickly come to the conclusion that he is indeed seen as a shirker who always prefers someone else to do the heavy lifting, and is generally interested in a position for the kudos rather than the power it affords.

And there are many dozens of "people who know him" who have gone on record to say just that...
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Spud

There is no doubt that some people will be of the opinion that Boris is lazy and will have expressed such an opinion, you clearly agree with them.

Others are of the opinion that Boris works too hard and some will have expressed such an opinion.

Robbie expressed an opinion that laziness is not a trait that would be suitable for a Prime Minister and I am sure that the majority would agree with that.

As none of us know Boris, maybe we should consider his achievements in his political career, he has managed to become the leader of the Conservative Party and then lead his party to a massive victory in a General Election.

So let's all take our blinkers of for a second and consider these achievements and the fact that we don't the person personally and ask ourselves what traits such a person is likely to have ?

I am not sure that laziness would be the first trait that a non biased person would mention and I would think that such a person is more likely to have a number of positive traits.
 
Wizaard said:
Your defence falls down on them doing their best to uphold a lockdown, when the policy designer decided the rules didn't apply to him, leading to a sense of it didn't apply to anyone.

Furlough has indeed papered over the cracks but it needs to be paid for eventually. How does the party of low taxation deal with that conundrum? Interesting times.
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I guess we see things differently. How does any country deal with that 'conundrum'?
I'll leave it there as I think you're next follow on will be brexit.
 
No1_club said:
I guess we see things differently. How does any country deal with that 'conundrum'?
I'll leave it there as I think you're next follow on will be brexit.
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This pandemic has been a boon for them because they'll be able to blame it for a no deal hard Brexit, something the likes of Rees Mogg has been working towards all along.

However, at times like this, Brexit is a side show. The nation's health is what's important.
 
Wizaard said:
Your defence falls down on them doing their best to uphold a lockdown, when the policy designer decided the rules didn't apply to him, leading to a sense of it didn't apply to anyone.
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Really? Which rules?

Reference to actual legislation rather than just what you thought he should've done please.
 
Wizaard said:
Your defence falls down on them doing their best to uphold a lockdown, when the policy designer decided the rules didn't apply to him, leading to a sense of it didn't apply to anyone.

Furlough has indeed papered over the cracks but it needs to be paid for eventually. How does the party of low taxation deal with that conundrum? Interesting times.
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Wiz

Sorry for hijacking your conversation with my nonsense about Boris but back on to your topic of furlough etc.

Whilst I agree with what you say re the furlough and other support schemes and that if Labour had introduced such schemes we'd never here the end of it, I can't help thinking you are more than getting your monies worth out of the topic.

If the Government had been less supportive to business and employers, I imagine you'd be criticising them for failing to provide support in these extraordinary circumstances.

I can't help feel that the Government would have been criticised no matter what schemes they had introduced - damned if they do and damned if they don't, what would you have done differently.

Don't get me wrong, you are perfectly entitled to criticise the Government without providing an alternative but are you saying that the Government has been very supportive of businesses and employers and if so, given your beliefs, why are you not commending the Government for the way that they have provided support ?

I am not trying to be funny with you Wiz, I was just wandering what you feel the Government should have actually done.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Really? Which rules?

Reference to actual legislation rather than just what you thought he should've done please.
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In the words of Boris we were all told to "stay at home" . . Cummings decided to drive the length of England to stay somewhere that wasn't home. I hope this is clear enough for you.
 
Sir Max Hastings knows Boris Johnson very well indeed... he employed him for several years. And has gone on the record to describe him as selfish and lazy.
 
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SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

Sorry for hijacking your conversation with my nonsense about Boris but back on to your topic of furlough etc.

Whilst I agree with what you say re the furlough and other support schemes and that if Labour had introduced such schemes we'd never here the end of it, I can't help thinking you are more than getting your monies worth out of the topic.

If the Government had been less supportive to business and employers, I imagine you'd be criticising them for failing to provide support in these extraordinary circumstances.

I can't help feel that the Government would have been criticised no matter what schemes they had introduced - damned if they do and damned if they don't, what would you have done differently.

Don't get me wrong, you are perfectly entitled to criticise the Government without providing an alternative but are you saying that the Government has been very supportive of businesses and employers and if so, given your beliefs, why are you not commending the Government for the way that they have provided support ?

I am not trying to be funny with you Wiz, I was just wandering what you feel the Government should have actually done.
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In the midst of various failures, the furlough scheme has done what it was supposed to and flattened the unemployment curve. My worry is that when it ends, as it must at some point, many businesses simply won't start up again and then we see the real long term mess.
 
Wizaard said:
In the midst of various failures, the furlough scheme has done what it was supposed to and flattened the unemployment curve. My worry is that when it ends, as it must at some point, many businesses simply won't start up again and then we see the real long term mess.
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Give me a list of these 'failures', which are unique to the UK and then, perhaps, we can discuss them instead of you just making blind statements.
 
No1_club said:
Give me a list of these 'failures', which are unique to the UK and then, perhaps, we can discuss them instead of you just making blind statements.
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The failure to introduce lockdown soon enough.
The PM setting a shocking example by shaking hands with all and sundry in a COVID ward
The whole Barnard Castle undermining of public confidence
The u turns on everything.

The only thing they've done well is the furlough scheme and even that had flaws and is open to abuse.
 
Wizaard said:
The failure to introduce lockdown soon enough.
The PM setting a shocking example by shaking hands with all and sundry in a COVID ward
The whole Barnard Castle undermining of public confidence
The u turns on everything.

The only thing they've done well is the furlough scheme and even that had flaws and is open to abuse.
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So how soon would you have liked to gone on lockdown? We did go into lockdown pretty much at the same time as the rest of europe, bar Italy.
When did you decide to stop shaking hands with people?
Cummings broke lockdown protocol, what you want to do, kill him? We have all secrectly been guilty of lockdown mistermeanors.
Ah yes, U turns...but are they really? This virus has called for fluid decision making, hardly party policy change.

Owt else?
 
Leither said:
In the words of Boris we were all told to "stay at home" . . Cummings decided to drive the length of England to stay somewhere that wasn't home. I hope this is clear enough for you.
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And here is the core of the issue, confusing the simplified advice given at the daily press conference with the much more detailed and complicated "rules" that envisioned the application of common sense where appropriate.

Who's fault is it that too many people are too stupid to understand the rules and need to be spoon fed simplified versions of them in bitesized chunks?
 
Wizaard said:
The failure to introduce lockdown soon enough.
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Lets start with that one.

On what day should the UK have introduced lockdown and on the basis of what evidence (that was available at the time) do you make that claim.

Also the condition was "unique to the UK" so please provide evidence that the UK was unusually slow in introducing lockdown relative to where we were thought to be in the outbreak.

Links to reputable sources are of course expected.
 
Lost Seasider said:
And here is the core of the issue, confusing the simplified advice given at the daily press conference with the much more detailed and complicated "rules" that envisioned the application of common sense where appropriate.

Who's fault is it that too many people are too stupid to understand the rules and need to be spoon fed simplified versions of them in bitesized chunks?
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Surely the Government, and (in particular) a Government advisor who prides himself on being in touch with the public mood, would be more than we’ll aware of the significant portion of the public apparently too stupid to appreciate Mr Cummings super nuanced circumstances?

I mean it should be obvious that “Stay at home and isolate if you or relatives show symptoms” and “Do not travel to second homes” actually meant.. “Go to work and risk infecting / bringing down the entire cabinet, then drive for several hours in an enclosed space with a small child to your elderly relatives home, take a day trip out on your wife’s birthday to visit a series of local attractions, then when you get caught out go all jackanory”

They’re “complicated rules” alright....
 
Archibald Knox said:
Sir Max Hastings knows Boris Johnson very well indeed... he employed him for several years. And has gone on the record to describe him as selfish and lazy . (edited for language)
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He did a very enjoyable demolition job on The Boris in last Saturdays Times, as you say calling him lazy, selfish and a few other home truths. The man truly is a charlatan.
 
Wizaard said:
In the midst of various failures, the furlough scheme has done what it was supposed to and flattened the unemployment curve. My worry is that when it ends, as it must at some point, many businesses simply won't start up again and then we see the real long term mess.
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Again, I'm not trying to be funny with you Wiz as I agree with much of what you say re the financial support schemes but I am thinking that, given your political beliefs, you should be praising the Government for the schemes and not criticising them.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Again, I'm not trying to be funny with you Wiz as I agree with much of what you say re the financial support schemes but I am thinking that, given your political beliefs, you should be praising the Government for the schemes and not criticising them.
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As I said, the furlough has been a God send and credit for that.
 
Wizaard said:
As I said, the furlough has been a God send and credit for that.
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Thank you Sir, there will no further questions.

On a serious note Wiz, I agree with you re the financial implications of the virus and that businesses and their employees will still face problems down the line despite the various financial support schemes but that was always going to be the case and is the fault of the virus and not the Government.

Yes, the Government is responsible for handling the virus as best it can but I am getting the impression - apologies if not so - that if it had been up to you we'd have locked down for a far longer period and that would have resulted in far greater financial problems.

Of course there are health issues that need to be managed and we couldn't risk the NHS being overwhelmed but there has to be a balance between health and the economy, it's not an exact science and we don't have the benefit of hindsight.

I'd suggest we should have perhaps not locked down and gone for isolating the vulnerable and let the others crack on but I am just typing on a football forum months later.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Thank you Sir, there will no further questions.

On a serious note Wiz, I agree with you re the financial implications of the virus and that businesses and their employees will still face problems down the line despite the various financial support schemes but that was always going to be the case and is the fault of the virus and not the Government.

Yes, the Government is responsible for handling the virus as best it can but I am getting the impression - apologies if not so - that if it had been up to you we'd have locked down for a far longer period and that would have resulted in far greater financial problems.

Of course there are health issues that need to be managed and we couldn't risk the NHS being overwhelmed but there has to be a balance between health and the economy, it's not an exact science and we don't have the benefit of hindsight.

With the benefit of hindsight, I'd suggest we should have perhaps not lockdown and gone for isolating the vulnerable but I am just typing on a football forum months later.
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I can't help but think that a stringent lockdown over a couple of months would have seen us in a better position now. As it was, we had neither one thing nor another, with muddled guidance and confusion.
An example is those who think it was acceptable for what Cummings did at the height of the pandemic. By any rational logic his actions were against the spirit as well as the rules of lockdown.

Because there was room for interpretation, it's lingered far longer than it needed to. Imho.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
You do get the impression that Boris leans heavily on Cummings for ideas, strategies and policies including sacking leading civil servants but could not bring himself to do the right thing and sack Cummings when he totally undermined the stay at home policy.
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Absolutely, leaning on Cummings for ideas etc, does not make Boris lazy - I am not suggesting you were saying so - but the way he chose to deal with "Cummings" Gate demonstrated a lack of integrity.

I like to think that integrity was a given amongst all public servants - and human beings - but it seems that it doesn't matter.
 
Levi501 said:
He did a very enjoyable demolition job on The Boris in last Saturdays Times, as you say calling him lazy, selfish and a few other home truths. The man truly is a charlatan.
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But he employed that charlatan for several years according to the poster who highlighted this. It's a bit strange he employed him for that long if he was that useless. I'm not sticking up for Johnson because I'm far from his biggest fan. It does make you wonder what has happened since between Hastings and Johnson. Personally I wouldn't employ Johnson. But then I'll never be in a position to do that anyway.
 
Wizaard said:
I can't help but think that a stringent lockdown over a couple of months would have seen us in a better position now. As it was, we had neither one thing nor another, with muddled guidance and confusion.
An example is those who think it was acceptable for what Cummings did at the height of the pandemic. By any rational logic his actions were against the spirit as well as the rules of lockdown.

Because there was room for interpretation, it's lingered far longer than it needed to. Imho.
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Look Cummings admitted he did wrong, in a nationwide press conference ffs. Should he be fired? I guess it depends on his value, in this case, no.
The vast majority of the population observed the lockdown, and I must say, I was well impressed with the teens, who I thought would have f ucked it right off. I know we would have done back in the day.
 
Wizaard said:
I can't help but think that a stringent lockdown over a couple of months would have seen us in a better position now. As it was, we had neither one thing nor another, with muddled guidance and confusion.
An example is those who think it was acceptable for what Cummings did at the height of the pandemic. By any rational logic his actions were against the spirit as well as the rules of lockdown.

Because there was room for interpretation, it's lingered far longer than it needed to. Imho.
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That's twice I've agreed with you within days Wiz.

have you considered going for a check up ?
 
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