Is it now a game of poker between SS and fans?

T

TimperleyTangerine

Well-known member
SS has intimated strongly that NC will be with us next season.

Many fans are seriously considering ST renewal and if they can stomach another season of NC style football.

I consider myself a moderate, but football under NC is the most boring in 40 years of supporting Pool. What we’ve witnessed this season was evident in the second half of the season, in his first stint in charge. I see stubbornness and arrogance, things that I don’t envisage will change.

We’ve had many poor squads and much worse seasons, but for me, there has generally been a connection between fans & players. It feels to me, that the life has been sucked out of players & fans. Apathy is very evident and that is disastrous for any club and owner.

Sadly, SS made a huge error recently when he backed NC for next season. Where was the pressure for the manager to think again?

So, it’s now a game of poker and I don’t see fans blinking on ST purchases, unless NC is removed. Yes, there will be renewals, but not at the level he’s seen since buying the club. It won’t just be a few hundred.

We need hope ahead of next season, to get the feeling back. I have none at present.

Finally, I hope SS realises that the fans are behind him. The fact that fans haven’t been more vocal in the ground about NC is, in part, out of respect towards SS.
 
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TimperleyTangerine said:
SS has intimated strongly that NC will be with us next season.

Many fans are seriously considering ST renewal and if they can stomach another season of NC style football.

I consider myself a moderate, but football under NC is the most boring in 40 years of supporting Pool. What we’ve witnessed this season was evident in the second half of the season, in his first stint in charge. I see stubbornness and arrogance, things that I don’t envisage will change.

We’ve had many poor squads and much worse seasons, but for me, there has generally been a connection between fans & players. It feels to me, that the life has been sucked out of players & fans. Apathy is very evident and that is disastrous for any club and owner.

Sadly, SS made a huge error recently when he backed NC for next season. Where was the pressure for the manager to think again?

So, it’s now a game of poker and I don’t see fans blinking on ST purchases, unless NC is removed. Yes, there will be renewals, but not at the level he’s seen since buying the club. It won’t just be a few hundred.

We need hope ahead of next season, to get the feeling back. I have none at present.
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He's the owner. He has the power and he's made it clear that Critchley stays for now.

If people opt not to go that's their prerogative.
 
I don’t think Sadler was lying when he gave Critchley the vote of confidence - but it’s worth taking into account there wasn’t really any opposition to him which wasn’t behind a screen at the time.

If it gets toxic like at the end of the last game, then things can change. If we win our next home game it’s probably back to square 1, but continued pressure can force his hand.
 
Matesrates said:
Depends on the last few games, if the performances continue as we’ve seen recently, I can’t see him SS can ignore that, if we get better results and performances and finish either in, or just outside the playoffs, then he’ll keep him.
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Recently, you mean all season?

We’re not getting in the play-offs, so any changes now would be meaningless.
 
It’s about entertainment isn’t it, he’s got all the certificates and qualifications so needs to address the situation next season could be tough for him.
 
AngelBFC said:
If that’s the case then buy a season ticket regardless of who the manager is .
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Doesn't work that way. People will downgrade their support from a ST to see how it goes and decide later in the summer on a ST or attend on a POTD basis. Of course if everything is good the latter two options actually benefit the club- no early bird saving and no ST saving, at least until HST's become available.

My guess is probably 50% of STH's are questioning whether to renew and around 80% of those will buy a ST anyway, because it's what you do. So maybe a drop of 10% in total.
 
AngelBFC said:
If that’s the case then buy a season ticket regardless of who the manager is .
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I’ve no doubt that some will, and we’ve seen previously that a good number are just happy to have a match to go to and chat with old mates.

However, since he took over, we’ve added many new & younger fans. We all want to look forward to match day and enjoy the experience, but really how many have recently? That does not mean winning every match and being promoted, but competing and doing the best we can. Ultimately, our enjoyment of football is about what happens on the pitch.

The North Stand support has died this season, not because fans can’t be bothered, but because there is so little to get excited about. That’s indicative of how bad things have become.
 
fcblackpool said:
Doesn't work that way. People will downgrade their support from a ST to see how it goes and decide later in the summer on a ST or attend on a POTD basis. Of course if everything is good the latter two options actually benefit the club- no early bird saving and no ST saving, at least until HST's become available.

My guess is probably 50% of STH's are questioning whether to renew and around 80% of those will buy a ST anyway, because it's what you do. So maybe a drop of 10% in total.
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I think 10% may be a big under-estimate. I wouldn’t be surprised if we were looking at 3k less.
 
fcblackpool said:
Doesn't work that way. People will downgrade their support from a ST to see how it goes and decide later in the summer on a ST or attend on a POTD basis. Of course if everything is good the latter two options actually benefit the club- no early bird saving and no ST saving, at least until HST's become available.

My guess is probably 50% of STH's are questioning whether to renew and around 80% of those will buy a ST anyway, because it's what you do. So maybe a drop of 10% in total.
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Will be a lot more than that in my opinion. If fans like myself are considering not buying one if that clown is still manager then I reckon sales will be massively down
 
fcblackpool said:
Doesn't work that way. People will downgrade their support from a ST to see how it goes and decide later in the summer on a ST or attend on a POTD basis. Of course if everything is good the latter two options actually benefit the club- no early bird saving and no ST saving, at least until HST's become available.

My guess is probably 50% of STH's are questioning whether to renew and around 80% of those will buy a ST anyway, because it's what you do. So maybe a drop of 10% in total.
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I’d be amazed if even 20% of ST holders are questioning renewal?

I’ll make a prediction that if Critch stays ST will fall by no more than 500.

If Dobbie is made manager with a back office of ex Pool players / coaches then it will increase by no more than 500 either.
 
I’ve never not bought a season ticket because of the manager, although I have not bought a season ticket because of an owner.

That will never change - and anyone who thinks otherwise should have a serious look in the mirror.

We went through hell to get our club back!!
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
I’ve no doubt that some will, and we’ve seen previously that a good number are just happy to have a match to go to and chat with old mates.

However, since he took over, we’ve added many new & younger fans. We all want to look forward to match day and enjoy the experience, but really how many have recently? That does not mean winning every match and being promoted, but competing and doing the best we can. Ultimately, our enjoyment of football is about what happens on the pitch.

The North Stand support has died this season, not because fans can’t be bothered, but because there is so little to get excited about. That’s indicative of how bad things have become.
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Yesterday from where I was sat in the south the north stand looked about 80% full, with only 250-300 Wycombe fans there was no way that crowd was over 10,000. Simon might not like this game of poker but I know who will win eventually
 
seasideone said:
I’ve never not bought a season ticket because of the manager, although I have not bought a season ticket because of an owner.

That will never change - and anyone who thinks otherwise should have a serious look in the mirror.

We went through hell to get our club back!!
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It’s an entertainment based business at the end of the day and the entertainment is non existent. It’s actually becoming a chore to attend to be honest and I know a lot that aren’t anymore
 
Martonmosser said:
It’s an entertainment based business at the end of the day and the entertainment is non existent. It’s actually becoming a chore to attend to be honest and I know a lot that aren’t anymore
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It’s actually a result based business - in my opinion!

If we had won every game playing long ball - the vast majority (including me) would be buzzing at Championship football next year.

..and if we could have won the Championship next year doing the same - the vast majority would love it.

…and then if we won the Prem playing the same way - nobody would have given a ….
 
Martonmosser said:
Yesterday from where I was sat in the south the north stand looked about 80% full, with only 250-300 Wycombe fans there was no way that crowd was over 10,000. Simon might not like this game of poker but I know who will win eventually
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And sadly it looks like any change might be too late, as it was last season. I just see next season as being even more challenging, with the teams coming down and those coming up.

It’d be very interesting to know just how many ST holders didn’t bother. I think fans deserve great credit for still attending and not chanting for Critchley out. Afterall, what the situation now is what we thought it would be many months ago.

Biggest sign for me is the death in the atmosphere. It should set alarms bells ringing at Board level.
 
The most boring season ever what utter horseshite I think people have been watching Sky sports too much.

I've constantly asked this question on here and not a single person has ever come back with an answer.

Name all these entertaining sides that you've seen live?
Peterborough aside I'm struggling as it's 3rd division what do you expect?

Season ticket sales where always going to go down as fans get bored with Lge 1 so change the manager I still don't think we'll sell as many as this season.
 
Mr Sadler operates ‘in real life’ very successfully in the brutal world of investment finance.

Previous communications suggest to me that, unsurprisingly, he operates in football life much the same, albeit with an element of ‘heart’ - in that he’s invested in a Head Coach & intends to back his investment until as/when it becomes financially untenable.

Does he give a flying fuck what his detractors think?

No.
 
seasideone said:
It’s actually a result based business - in my opinion!

If we had won every game playing long ball - the vast majority (including me) would be buzzing at Championship football next year.

..and if we could have won the Championship next year doing the same - the vast majority would love it.

…and then if we won the Prem playing the same way - nobody would have given a ….
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Correct, but we haven’t and that’s the point. As I mentioned earlier, we have not given it a go in Blackpool style, as we have done with much worse squads. It’s not the long balls, it’s the pointless purposeless possession that goes before.

We’ve played in a cautious fashion and against teams with nowhere near the ability we have in our squad. It’s a massive opportunity missed.
 
Bluecabinboy said:
Mr Sadler operates ‘in real life’ very successfully in the brutal world of investment finance.

Previous communications suggest to me that, unsurprisingly, he operates in football life much the same, albeit with an element of ‘heart’ - in that he’s invested in a Head Coach & intends to back his investment until as/when it becomes financially untenable.

Does he give a flying fuck what his detractors think?

No.
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But they are not his detractors - they are 100% behind him and want his investment to be rewarded on the pitch. This is not anti-SS, but it is about his choice of manager (again).
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
I think 10% may be a big under-estimate. I wouldn’t be surprised if we were looking at 3k less.
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I think once the season is done a lot will take a more relaxed view and optimism will reappear (wrongly if NC is in charge). Just people's nature.

It will be more families that don't renew than individual STH's imo. They'll find it hard to justify a grand for all the ST's when nobody is really enjoying it against flights to the sun for a week or school uniforms or energy prices etc. Here, if I was BFC I'd recognise that and put some creative thinking into pricings for these tickets- they won't though.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Correct, but we haven’t and that’s the point. As I mentioned earlier, we have not given it a go in Blackpool style, as we have done with much worse squads. It’s not the long balls, it’s the pointless purposeless possession that goes before.

We’ve played in a cautious fashion and against teams with nowhere near the ability we have in our squad. It’s a massive opportunity missed.
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Never said we have - I am just saying if we won every game, how many would care about formation and tactics?

Therefore it’s a result based business!
 
Simon won’t want to sack Critchley but he will do if he has to and he’s done it with managers in the past. He’ll be under no illusions that the manager is under pressure and the fans are starting to turn but he’ll be hoping it turns around.

SS and Critchley have worked together over a number of years and had success together in the past. I imagine sacking a manager is probably the worst part of Simon’s job and not a decision he’ll take lightly.

We haven’t really gone on a stinking run this season, we’ve had disappointing results but we’ve managed to bounce back with wins before too long and we’ve hovered a couple of good results off the playoffs all season. He was never getting sacked in that scenario, he was always going to get time to make a final push.

Now the situation has changed, three games without a win has put us out of the playoff picture and the fans have started to turn. If results pick up and we have a respectable end to the season I expect him to be given a chance to improve next season. If we continue the bad run to the end of the season I expect we’ll part company.
 
seasideone said:
Never said we have - I am just saying if we won every game, how many would care about formation and tactics?

Therefore it’s a result based business!
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I think that's right. And by definition if you win games then you are entertaining. Eventually though everyone, players, club and fans would want winning in style.
 
poolseasider said:
The most boring season ever what utter horseshite I think people have been watching Sky sports too much.

I've constantly asked this question on here and not a single person has ever come back with an answer.

Name all these entertaining sides that you've seen live?
Peterborough aside I'm struggling as it's 3rd division what do you expect?

Season ticket sales where always going to go down as fans get bored with Lge 1 so change the manager I still don't think we'll sell as many as this season.
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It doesn’t mean that cos others are as crap that we’re not boring though does it? In fact half the problem is that we can’t beat these poor teams and in many cases not even muster a shot on target against them
 
I think SS has earned the right to get his entertainment kicks in a million different ways.

Lots of us like that Saturday lunchtime - teatime and that for many is an expensive and potentially primary source of entertainment.

I don't think we are that bunch of fans that exists to win every game; but we are in the unenviable position of going 30 or 40 minutes without a shot.

That's not great value for money and I'm sure for lots of people, they will question whether it's good value for money.
 
a
poolseasider said:
The most boring season ever what utter horseshite I think people have been watching Sky sports too much.

I've constantly asked this question on here and not a single person has ever come back with an answer.

Name all these entertaining sides that you've seen live?
Peterborough aside I'm struggling as it's 3rd division what do you expect?

Season ticket sales where always going to go down as fans get bored with Lge 1 so change the manager I still don't think we'll sell as many as this season.
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have to disagree with you here. I'd pretty much put it right at the top of boring seasons. You have to distinguish between what is a shit team and what is boring football. Yep, i think we've had plenty of worse teams than this where of course results have been terrible but i genuinely think that most fans think this team is capable of doing much better than what they are doing. And the reason they are not is all down to Critchley and his howhe sets up the team to play. It's as boring as hell and for me simply not good enough or acceptable.
 
Sven said:
Simon won’t want to sack Critchley but he will do if he has to and he’s done it with managers in the past. He’ll be under no illusions that the manager is under pressure and the fans are starting to turn but he’ll be hoping it turns around.

SS and Critchley have worked together over a number of years and had success together in the past. I imagine sacking a manager is probably the worst part of Simon’s job and not a decision he’ll take lightly.

We haven’t really gone on a stinking run this season, we’ve had disappointing results but we’ve managed to bounce back with wins before too long and we’ve hovered a couple of good results off the playoffs all season. He was never getting sacked in that scenario, he was always going to get time to make a final push.

Now the situation has changed, three games without a win has put us out of the playoff picture and the fans have started to turn. If results pick up and we have a respectable end to the season I expect him to be given a chance to improve next season. If we continue the bad run to the end of the season I expect we’ll part company.
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I don't own the Club or poured millions into it, but its blindingly obvious that Critchleys success was with a recognised No2, and without one he's distinctly poor as a Manager.

ST's will be affected if he stays, so Sadler has very few options available if he doesn't want to haemorrhage money... either get him a No2 with experience and bin the iPad boys or get rid of Critchley.

Personally Id bin Critchley
 
Martonmosser said:
What a crap post, not like you that mate. People are sick of this sh1t and will vote with their feet….. we both know it and I’m pretty sure Simon does as well
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I don’t think you can on the one hand state you support the owner and then hit him in the pocket by not going/renewing.

Not going to games/not renewing hasn’t resulted in a change of manager before so why will it work now ?

Mosser over the decades we both will have watched some really crap games and I mean garbage .

Is what is being served up now really that bad ? I’m not convinced .

However I do agree we have seen some poor performances this season and last and improvement is required .
 
fcblackpool said:
I think that's right. And by definition if you win games then you are entertaining. Eventually though everyone, players, club and fans would want winning in style.
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I just want to win.

Maybe after we won the Champions League and the Prem multiple times, the way we play could become an issue.

I doubt it though 🤣🧡👍
 
AngelBFC said:
I don’t think you can on the one hand state you support the owner and then hit him in the pocket by not going/renewing.

Not going to games/not renewing hasn’t resulted in a change of manager before so why will it work now ?

Mosser over the decades we both will have watched some really crap games and I mean garbage .

Is what is being served up now really that bad ? I’m not convinced .

However I do agree we have seen some poor performances this season and last and improvement is required .
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It’s as boring as hell mate and you know it. How many of your mates have stopped bothering recently cos quite a few of mine have?
 
seasideone said:
I’ve never not bought a season ticket because of the manager, although I have not bought a season ticket because of an owner.

That will never change - and anyone who thinks otherwise should have a serious look in the mirror.

We went through hell to get our club back!!
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I'm the same, or would be if I still lived up there, but I don't agree with your second point, there are a few thousand die hards, probably 5000 who will get a season ticket no matter what apart from a NAPM type scenario and we still had some who bought ST's even then. You then have the rest, those who want to go and enjoy the football, see some exciting attacking play and be in the top 6, that's just how it is and if Critchley stays it's that group that are the ones who will buy or not and I think it could easily be 2000 who don't renew, that's a big hit and if we carry on playing like we have been and slip even further down the league you will lose another 1500 or. so the following season. Surely that is not the way Sadler wants the club to go? Just because you would go and buy a ST no matter what, you can't call people for not doing, it's a choice and Sadler will have to see what happens this summer.
 
20togo said:
a

have to disagree with you here. I'd pretty much put it right at the top of boring seasons. You have to distinguish between what is a shit team and what is boring football. Yep, i think we've had plenty of worse teams than this where of course results have been terrible but i genuinely think that most fans think this team is capable of doing much better than what they are doing. And the reason they are not is all down to Critchley and his howhe sets up the team to play. It's as boring as hell and for me simply not good enough or acceptable.
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I find the whole league boring not just us as I tend to take my Tangerine spectacles off whilst watching games live.

That's why I constantly ask the question which teams are entertaining in this league and I really struggle to name them.

Winning sides yes but entertaining no.

Bolton for example play 3 at the back and we've beaten them twice and lost by 1 goal at there's and haven't impressed.

Team managers have this brilliant idea with fancy formations copied from the PL with average 3rd division players and it makes the whole thing boring.

Compare it to the Championship and it's day and night in Lge 1 but I still love going but lower my expectations to the quality that's on offer and won't change my view until I see the other 23 sides blow me away, aside from Peterborough no one has.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
I don't own the Club or poured millions into it, but its blindingly obvious that Critchleys success was with a recognised No2, and without one he's distinctly poor as a Manager.

ST's will be affected if he stays, so Sadler has very few options available if he doesn't want to haemorrhage money... either get him a No2 with experience and bin the iPad boys or get rid of Critchley.

Personally Id bin Critchley
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I’m leaning towards binning him too but there’s no guarantee of success with a new guy, it’s a gamble either way and Simon might choose to ride it out a bit longer. If he does keep him I’ll back the decision but with considerably less patience than I’ve had this season, it’s currently wearing very thin.

We’ll see what happens with the ST sales. I’d expect a drop off for a second season in League One after a disappointing season and I imagine the club will too. It will likely be budgeted for and will ultimately come off the playing budget. Win a few games and they’ll come back like they always do and paying full whack for the privilege, we’re a fickle bunch.
 
Martonmosser said:
It’s as boring as hell mate and you know it. How many of your mates have stopped bothering recently cos quite a few of mine have?
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I do know it Mosser . Plenty of the games have been boring. When we’ve played decent sides less so .

I haven’t seen a particularly noticeable drop in attendance other than for valid reason not many have sat at home instead of going to the game .
 
hertfordseasider said:
I'm the same, or would be if I still lived up there, but I don't agree with your second point, there are a few thousand die hards, probably 5000 who will get a season ticket no matter what apart from a NAPM type scenario and we still had some who bought ST's even then. You then have the rest, those who want to go and enjoy the football, see some exciting attacking play and be in the top 6, that's just how it is and if Critchley stays it's that group that are the ones who will buy or not and I think it could easily be 2000 who don't renew, that's a big hit and if we carry on playing like we have been and slip even further down the league you will lose another 1500 or. so the following season. Surely that is not the way Sadler wants the club to go? Just because you would go and buy a ST no matter what, you can't call people for not doing, it's a choice and Sadler will have to see what happens this summer.
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Apart from NAPM they will come if we win.

That’s reality 🧡
 
seasideone said:
It’s actually a result based business - in my opinion!

If we had won every game playing long ball - the vast majority (including me) would be buzzing at Championship football next year.

..and if we could have won the Championship next year doing the same - the vast majority would love it.

…and then if we won the Prem playing the same way - nobody would have given a ….
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You know what, I wouldn’t mind if we played direct, attacking, long ball football. It would be more entertaining than the shite we are currently being served up.
 
poolseasider said:
I find the whole league boring not just us as I tend to take my Tangerine spectacles off whilst watching games live.

That's why I constantly ask the question which teams are entertaining in this league and I really struggle to name them.

Winning sides yes but entertaining no.

Bolton for example play 3 at the back and we've beaten them twice and lost by 1 goal at there's and haven't impressed.

Team managers have this brilliant idea with fancy formations copied from the PL with average 3rd division players and it makes the whole thing boring.

Compare it to the Championship and it's day and night in Lge 1 but I still love going but lower my expectations to the quality that's on offer and won't change my view until I see the other 23 sides blow me away, aside from Peterborough no one has.
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Yes, agree with a lot of that but i still come back to how we play which is slow laboured sideways, backwards,possession football which pretty much goes nowhere until the big hoof comes along , petty much just like saturday to two not big forwards being marked by two giant centre halves. We never put any teams under sustained pressure because it's all about keeping possession of the ball in areas which are never gonna hurt the opposition. Most matches this season just simply haven't been enjoyable. And I think a lot of fans agree with me.
 
hertfordseasider said:
I'm the same, or would be if I still lived up there, but I don't agree with your second point, there are a few thousand die hards, probably 5000 who will get a season ticket no matter what apart from a NAPM type scenario and we still had some who bought ST's even then. You then have the rest, those who want to go and enjoy the football, see some exciting attacking play and be in the top 6, that's just how it is and if Critchley stays it's that group that are the ones who will buy or not and I think it could easily be 2000 who don't renew, that's a big hit and if we carry on playing like we have been and slip even further down the league you will lose another 1500 or. so the following season. Surely that is not the way Sadler wants the club to go? Just because you would go and buy a ST no matter what, you can't call people for not doing, it's a choice and Sadler will have to see what happens this summer.
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I'm one of the die-hard 5,000 and I'm certainly not embarassed about it.
@20togo, who's seen (very nearly) as many seasons as me, makes a good point about the difference between sh1t teams playing poor football and boring football. I've definitely seen more of the former than the latter but not sure I'd put this season, as whole, at the top of the boring list. I agree, this season, when we are boring, we are very, very boring but particularly at home we have still put in some decent performances even if overall that's in the minority.
We've done the boycott thing when it really mattered and as a consequence we still have a Club and we aren't going through the Bury FC scenario, thankfully.
So going NAPM, just because Critch isn't delivering exciting football, isnt something I'll be doing.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
SS has intimated strongly that NC will be with us next season.

Many fans are seriously considering ST renewal and if they can stomach another season of NC style football.

I consider myself a moderate, but football under NC is the most boring in 40 years of supporting Pool. What we’ve witnessed this season was evident in the second half of the season, in his first stint in charge. I see stubbornness and arrogance, things that I don’t envisage will change.

We’ve had many poor squads and much worse seasons, but for me, there has generally been a connection between fans & players. It feels to me, that the life has been sucked out of players & fans. Apathy is very evident and that is disastrous for any club and owner.

Sadly, SS made a huge error recently when he backed NC for next season. Where was the pressure for the manager to think again?

So, it’s now a game of poker and I don’t see fans blinking on ST purchases, unless NC is removed. Yes, there will be renewals, but not at the level he’s seen since buying the club. It won’t just be a few hundred.

We need hope ahead of next season, to get the feeling back. I have none at present.

Finally, I hope SS realises that the fans are behind him. The fact that fans haven’t been more vocal in the ground about NC is, in part, out of respect towards SS.
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How do you know "many" fans are seriously considering ST renewal?
 
Victorsponge said:
How do you know "many" fans are seriously considering ST renewal?
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Really?

Let’s start by considering how many current ST holders aren’t attending. Then, let’s consider the atmosphere in the ground, which is a long way from where we were at the start of the season. You could also consider the views on here, which is admittedly not the whole fanbase, but then on other social media sites the mood is much worse.

Time will tell.
 
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