Knee taking!

As soon as the word racism is used, all sensible argument goes straight out of the window.

The killing recently in the USA, where this knee taking came from, of the black motorist by five black policemen has by some been classed as racist! Why? because it has been said if he had been a white motorist it would not have happened.

My opinion is knee taking has served its purpose, it has made people aware of racism, which does exist, but it is 'so yesterday'. Education is the best way to counter this problem. Knee taking is starting to divide IMHO.
 
If the players want to do it then let them. There are clearly a lot of racist pr***ks still around. To address such matters it’s an about a sustained campaign not a flash in the pan. I respect them for it; things get better in society as a consequence of people acting with ethical intent.
 
Totally pointless and does nothing for racism in my opinion. although i respect other opinions as we ALL should.
 
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I've no problem with it at all. If it helps to make a difference in some way, it can only be a good thing.

But I'm always intrigued as to whether the opposition join us. I'd say its less than 50% do, but they usually applaud us doing it. Surely it's everyone or no one?
 
The team, collectively, agreed to do it and are continuing to do it. The team made up of young lads, of different races, religions and backgrounds who will actually have experience of being that race, religion and background and will likely have experienced some of the racism and bigotry at some point in their life / career.

Yet some on here (which will likely be older, white men from a town with an overwhelming majority white population) are the ones with issue with it…

I know who I think are in the best place to determine if it’s needed, justified or whether it should continue.
 
Northstandsinger said:
Just out of curiosity, how many times have you heard or seen racist behaviour at Bloomfield road this season ?
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I didn’t say I had seen or heard it at Bloomfield Rd.

If you read my post it says “in sport and society in general”

I can tell you I have heard it and hear it in society on a regular basis and you can read it or hear it on the news channels just about every week in one sport or another.
 
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Curryman said:
As soon as the word racism is used, all sensible argument goes straight out of the window.

The killing recently in the USA, where this knee taking came from, of the black motorist by five black policemen has by some been classed as racist! Why? because it has been said if he had been a white motorist it would not have happened.

My opinion is knee taking has served its purpose, it has made people aware of racism, which does exist, but it is 'so yesterday'. Education is the best way to counter this problem. Knee taking is starting to divide IMHO.
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I’m surprised at your comments.

How can racism be “so yesterday” 😳
 
One person was racist so we all need to be reminded about racism. A bit disproportionate I’d say.

Back in my day, taking the knee was called kneeling down.

But that was when I’d say ‘at the moment’. This was eventually replaced by ‘at the minute’.

Thankfully it’s still a ‘momentary lapse’ and a ‘moment of mayo on the lips, forever on the huge ass’.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
The team, collectively, agreed to do it and are continuing to do it. The team made up of young lads, of different races, religions and backgrounds who will actually have experience of being that race, religion and background and will likely have experienced some of the racism and bigotry at some point in their life / career.

Yet some on here (which will likely be older, white men from a town with an overwhelming majority white population) are the ones with issue with it…

I know who I think are in the best place to determine if it’s needed, justified or whether it should continue.
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And there’s many mixed race teams of young sportsmen and sportswomen who don’t take the knee. They clearly don’t think it’s a useful gesture.
 
Malced said:
And there’s many mixed race teams of young sportsmen and sportswomen who don’t take the knee. They clearly don’t think it’s a useful gesture.
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And ours do. And it’s up to them. Not all experiences are shared. Everyone is individual. Therefore the response from every team will be individual too. And that should be respected by the fans.
 
I don't need to read these posts to know how the discussion is going. My concern is why the OP thought it necessary to drag it out again.
 
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Pointless tokenism but if it makes people feel better to think it is still doing some good then what’s the harm in it.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
And ours do. And it’s up to them. Not all experiences are shared. Everyone is individual. Therefore the response from every team will be individual too. And that should be respected by the fans.
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Exactly. My point was it’s not just older white men that don’t agree with the gesture.
 
Malced said:
Exactly. My point was it’s not just older white men that don’t agree with the gesture.
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And my point was those whinging in here are in no position whatsoever to dictate to our players given that the vast majority have absolutely zero comprehension of what it is to be a young person fron a minority background and living and working in the UK
 
Wilburrabbit said:
Pointless tokenism but if it makes people feel better to think it is still doing some good then what’s the harm in it.
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Symbolic gestures - for that is what you are referring to - are never pointless. They are simple, visual methods of conveying a message to a mass audience.
 
Wizaard said:
Feel free to write to the club and tell the players they are tokenists. It's they who don’t seem to have a problem with it.

Sick of hearing it again and again on here.
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As you will see from my comment I don’t see any harm in it so why would I write. I still think it is tokenism.
 
Jaffa Cakes said:
The level of mental gymnastics it must take to arrive at this conclusion is genuinely impressive.
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It’s called logic. Sorry if it hurts your head.
Someone asked when the last time was there’d been racism at Bloomfield Road. This example was cited as apparent justification for the need to carry on with with the knee taking symbolism.

One case of some racist idiot. Maybe there’s some wider benefit to the gesture but I’d say it’s not necessary for the Bloomfield Road audience.

There’s many multicultural teams within football that no longer take the knee. Many black players don’t want to and don’t agree with it.
So it’s a fair question with regards to whether this gesture has any value to it going forward.

Just because one numpty acted badly it doesn’t automatically dictate the need for ongoing kneeling. But you can have your opinion and I’ll have mine.

Feel free to share yours rather than snipe. Let’s see your wonderful analysis.
 
Jaffa Cakes said:
Anyone who gets upset at a few players taking 2 seconds to express support for an important cause needs to get a grip IMO.
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No one is getting upset other than you over an avftt discussion it seems. It’s not a taboo subject. If you aren’t emotionally mature enough to see opinions that differ to yours then perhaps stay off here as an alternative to childish sniping.
 
Malced said:
Feel free to share yours rather than snipe. Let’s see your wonderful analysis.
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My opinion is that racism is a global problem within football, sport and wider society. I would say that is inarguable (although you may try). Taking the knee is a quick, simple and inoffensive way for footballers to demonstrate that they oppose racism. It also uses the platform of the most popular sport in the world to spread the anti-racism message, which I think is a good thing.

Someone asked when the last time was there’d been racism at Bloomfield Road. This example was cited as apparent justification for the need to carry on with with the knee taking symbolism.
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Interesting way of framing my response. I provided the answer without ever using it to justify taking the knee, in fact I actually commented that the question was missing the point of taking the knee.

Will taking the knee "solve" racism? Obviously not, but it sends a message of unity and togetherness in support of a common goal. It also negatively impacts absolutely no one, so what's the harm in doing it even if it has zero impact? Even if the only impact was to make one person think twice about shouting something, writing a tweet, or simply reading up on it, it's worth it.

Is Bloomfield Road the right audience? Yes. A message this important is for everyone's audience. If you're bored of it or don't like it, just ignore it. Is it that much of an inconvenience to you? If you think a two second knee is bad at the start of the game, imagine how Rashford, Sancho and Saka felt when they received thousands of racist messages after the Euros, maybe enduring Chris Maxwell kneeling for a moment isn't too bad after all.
 
Jaffa Cakes said:
My opinion is that racism is a global problem within football, sport and wider society. I would say that is inarguable (although you may try). Taking the knee is a quick, simple and inoffensive way for footballers to demonstrate that they oppose racism. It also uses the platform of the most popular sport in the world to spread the anti-racism message, which I think is a good thing.



Interesting way of framing my response. I provided the answer without ever using it to justify taking the knee, in fact I actually commented that the question was missing the point of taking the knee.

Will taking the knee "solve" racism? Obviously not, but it sends a message of unity and togetherness in support of a common goal. It also negatively impacts absolutely no one, so what's the harm in doing it even if it has zero impact? Even if the only impact was to make one person think twice about shouting something, writing a tweet, or simply reading up on it, is worth it.

Is Bloomfield Road the right audience? Yes. A message this important is for everyone's audience. If you're bored of it or don't like it, just ignore it. Is it that much of an inconvenience to you? If you think a two second knee is bad at the start of the game, imagine how Rashford, Sancho and Saka felt when they received thousands of racist messages after the Euros, maybe enduring Chris Maxwell kneeling for a moment isn't too bad after all.
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It’s not about enduring it. That’s the wrong way to frame it. Some sportspeople do it. Some don’t. We see it and we make an observation and discuss what the point is and whether it’s adding anything to the fight against racism and other forms of discrimination. It isn’t doing any harm and it might be of some benefit, but it’s very debatable about whether it’s run it’s course or not.

I’d argue these gestures are more powerful when there’s something specific there and then. So for example if Harry Kane had put principles ahead of career at the World Cup, he could have made a powerful stand for LGBTQ+ rights.

That would have been much better than say perpetually wearing a rainbow on a football shirt. The former is proactive and poweful, but the other is passive and less powerful.

The knee taking is so brief it goes almost unnoticed.

As I’ve said, many teams no longer take the knee. They’ve obviously discussed it and decided to stop. They must have determined that the gesture had run its course and that there were better ways to deal with discrimination.

Some have decided to carry on, and you make a good case as to why that would be sensible. I just don’t like these gestures forever and day as I find them to reduce in impact and become token gestures. We have other ways to address racism - tangible ways. Policies and laws and self-policing. The latter is perhaps the most effective. I know if anyone started racially abusing someone then 99.9% of Blackpool fans would intervene.

It’s a sad fact but there’s always going to be discrimination. There’ll always be sexism for example. But starting the office day by gathering round and doing say a group curtesy would make very little difference. 🤣
 
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