Local MP says stop taking the knee

I wonder what the Footballers and their Manager are saying? This quoted in The Guardian....

Jordan Henderson has said fans booing England’s players for taking the knee achieves nothing and proves the fight against racism is far from over. “I think it shows that if there’s still people booing because we’re standing together against racism, then there really still is a problem and we’ve still got to fight it and stand together,” England’s vice-captain said. “It shows even more that we have to keep going, keep fighting it. From our side, it’s about being together and doing what we think is right.” Also, Gareth Southgate made his case eloquently last weekend, and in an article published on Tuesday made clear his determination to keep using his position to raise awareness of society’s ills.
 
Brentford have also stopped doing it.
Was 'of a time' - I supported it - but like anything, it has served it's purpose and actually is now turning a positive in to a negative.
 
Whilst he's trying to whip up the populist vote with this, he's at least giving a break to the gay community, single mothers and divorcees.
I'm not sure I can take anyone seriously on race issues when they used to wave Confederate flags at uni.
 
Lost the room when he linked it to `Black Lives Matter` movement; Gareth Southgate couldn`t have made it any clearer why the England footballers were kneeling and it wasn`t in support of any political movement.

But Benton seems to imply that some of the richest twenty-something year olds on the planet are secret Marxists who want to "defund the police and abolish the nuclear family".

Looks like they must have blown their cover by expressing their opposition to racism before playing a game of football. Millionaire Marxists footballers? Who`d have thought it, eh?

And I notice he only refers to the vandalism of the Winston Churchill statue by "ant--racist" groups (!!) and no mention of the Chelsea fans` recent daubings.

So not in any way selective...
 
Benton is clearly racist, didn’t support Rashord in free meals for kids voting against it, and now this!

Yet some of you want to live in his butt crack.
 
spudgun said:
Lost the room when he linked it to `Black Lives Matter` movement; Gareth Southgate couldn`t have made it any clearer why the England footballers were kneeling and it wasn`t in support of any political movement.

But Benton seems to imply that some of the richest twenty-something year olds on the planet are secret Marxists who want to "defund the police and abolish the nuclear family".

Looks like they must have blown their cover by expressing their opposition to racism before playing a game of football. Millionaire Marxists footballers? Who`d have thought it, eh?

And I notice he only refers to the vandalism of the Winston Churchill statue by "ant--racist" groups (!!) and no mention of the Chelsea fans` recent daubings.

So not in any way selective...
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He's an intellectual pygmy but he's got a good PR team behind him. Photo op politician with literally no substance. He continually talks about lefties; cancel culture and uses anti semitic tropes about marxism. He knows how to work a crowd but there's fuck all up top. When he is questioned, he simply blocks people or "cancels" them. As a member of his constituency, he simply refuses to represent me because I didn't vote for him.
Shrugs off and votes against free school meals for kids in half term during a global pandemic but rages that all schools should fly the union flag.
Says fracking is bad pre election but votes for less restrictions post election.
Votes against stronger restrictions on off shore tax havens and billionaires taking the piss but votes in favour of more restrictive benefits for the needy.
Mysoginistic; homophobic populist flag shagger. He'll go down a treat with some on here. Smiles.
 
It is connected to BLM, no matter what they say. If they did a Nazi salute (like England were forced to do pre WW2) and said “it’s not connected” I’m sure boos would also ring out.

Why don’t they try a different gesture for tackling racism and see if the fans boo that? If they do, they’re racists, keep fighting. If they don’t, it would suggest the BLM/Marxist kneeling is the problem.
 
Mike_BFC said:
It is connected to BLM, no matter what they say.
Click to expand...
So when Gareth Southgate tells the world that the England footballers are not kneeling in support of the political organisation BLM (but are doing it in support of each other), you still don`t believe him?

Why don`t you want to believe him, Mike?
 
Mike_BFC said:
It is connected to BLM, no matter what they say. If they did a Nazi salute (like England were forced to do pre WW2) and said “it’s not connected” I’m sure boos would also ring out.

Why don’t they try a different gesture for tackling racism and see if the fans boo that? If they do, they’re racists, keep fighting. If they don’t, it would suggest the BLM/Marxist kneeling is the problem.
Click to expand...
The players have told you why they are kneeling,
Southgate has told you clearly why the players are kneeling.

But you know better.
Comparing kneeling with making a Nazi salute is very offensive.

Is this you Mike?

 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
The players have told you why they are kneeling,
Southgate has told you clearly why the players are kneeling.

But you know better.
Comparing kneeling with making a Nazi salute is very offensive.

Is this you Mike?

Click to expand...
That caller is thick as, easy stuff for O'Brien 👍
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
The guy in the photo is a Chelsea fan

www.theguardian.com

Chelsea investigating apparent 'monkey' gesture made by supporter

Chelsea are investigating an apparent monkey gesture made by a fan during Wednesday's match against Manchester United
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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My apologies, the way that first post is unclear and makes them look like eastern European "fans". But how is kneeling going to stop this crap? Only one way to deal with clowns like this when they can be so clearly identified.
 
spudgun said:
So when Gareth Southgate tells the world that the England footballers are not kneeling in support of the political organisation BLM (but are doing it in support of each other), you still don`t believe him?

Why don`t you want to believe him, Mike?
Click to expand...

So what do you think would've happened if GS had said something along the lines of "none of us believe in this crap and we're only doing it because we don't want to deal with the backlash"?

Do you think he would still be in the job?
 
Three observations:

I’d have thought the “Let’s keep politics out of sport” Brigade would be very critical of Mr Benton jumping in with his sizes tens, but oddly seem to be supportive.

Secondly don’t Tory MPs normally fall over themselves in their desperate attempts to take on board comments made by multi millionaires? Tim Martin for one springs to mind. What’s different here?

Thirdly - there’s some people who really resent working class lads using their skills to make a pot load of money. Jealous or what?
 
And that dirty paedophile Adam Johnson should be locked up forever. Even that's too good, when he dies I hope they still keep his bones in the cell. Bloody do gooders will no doubt stop this.
 
Mike_BFC said:
It is connected to BLM, no matter what they say. If they did a Nazi salute (like England were forced to do pre WW2) and said “it’s not connected” I’m sure boos would also ring out.

Why don’t they try a different gesture for tackling racism and see if the fans boo that? If they do, they’re racists, keep fighting. If they don’t, it would suggest the BLM/Marxist kneeling is the problem.
Click to expand...
Marxist kneeling? Hmmm, never cropped up in my Finals papers. Is it a new thing?....'no surrender to the bourgeoisie' (David Squires, brilliant!).
From each according to their ability to kneel. To each according to their kneeling requirements.
You learn something new every day.
 
Lost Seasider said:
So what do you think would've happened if GS had said something along the lines of "none of us believe in this crap and we're only doing it because we don't want to deal with the backlash"?

Do you think he would still be in the job?
Click to expand...
Utter nonsense.

I am often amazed at the intellectual contortions that some posters will resort to. Have you ever considered that Southgate actually believes in racial equality (along with the rest of his England squad) and is doing what he can to support the players in his squad.

Here is Southgate's open letter to England fans published yesterday. I think that he makes it very clear what he thinks.

www.theplayerstribune.com

Dear England | By Gareth Southgate

Only around 1,200 players have represented England at senior men’s level. Ever.
www.theplayerstribune.com www.theplayerstribune.com


What evidence do you have that Southgate doesn't 'believe in this crap'?
 
Lost Seasider said:
So what do you think would've happened if GS had said something along the lines of "none of us believe in this crap and we're only doing it because we don't want to deal with the backlash"?

Do you think he would still be in the job?
Click to expand...
You really think that Southgate is that duplicitous?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Marxist kneeling? Hmmm, never cropped up in my Finals papers. Is it a new thing?....'no surrender to the bourgeoisie' (David Squires, brilliant!).
From each according to their ability to kneel. To each according to their kneeling requirements.
You learn something new every day.
Click to expand...
Lol I learned that kneeling is the only conceivable gesture available to mankind, anything else is ineffective, so yeah lots of kneeling-related lessons being learned.

I actually do believe the players and Southgate when they say it’s not political. The trouble is that 10 minutes ago BLM were using the same gesture for the same reason whilst burning down cities and calling for defunding of police etc so perhaps people make the connection for that reason.

Or, simply everything is racist, which requires no thought and allows us ‘good guys’ to point out those ‘evil villains’, so let’s just go with that.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
You didn't answer my question either, it is below in case you have forgotten;

What evidence do you have that Southgate doesn't 'believe in this crap'?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what GS believes in, my point is that you cited his public statements as authority on what the England players believe in, but you ignore the substantial pressure to make those statements regardless of his, and for the matter the players private beliefs.

Now answer my question, do you think GS could make negative statements about taking the knee and keep his job.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I have no idea what GS believes in, my point is that you cited his public statements as authority on what the England players believe in, but you ignore the substantial pressure to make those statements regardless of his, and for the matter the players private beliefs.

Now answer my question, do you think GS could make negative statements about taking the knee and keep his job.
Click to expand...

Have you read Southgate's statement made only yesterday - it gives you a very clear understanding of what he believes in (you state that you have no idea what he believes in)?

He makes his position very clear and (if we are being pedantic) what he believes the players think about this. Jordan Henderson, a senior player has also very recently confirmed that the squad is united with Southgate on this. Southgate has made several statements about racism in the past and these have always been consistent. In short, there is not one shred of evidence that Southgate thinks that it is 'crap' as you would have it, and in fact there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. So we do know a lot about what Southgate and the squad think.

Did you read the link about cognitive dissonance? What you are suggesting is a fantasy interpretation of the available evidence, but one that I think would confirm your underlying belief. It is very uncharacteristic of you to argue from a position where there is not one iota of supporting evidence, but needs must.

I have already answered your question (i.e. there is no evidence) but I'll go further. If Southgate didn't believe in this cause he would just keep quiet about it, like every other previous England manager. That he is prepared to talk openly about it is a good thing. Fairly naked racism and racist behaviour have dogged the England football team for the whole of my life. Anyone who has attended England football matches will know that it has been a historical problem. Southgate is a part of a solution to some of these problems and is doing something to create a better future for English football. I think he should be applauded for it, it would be much easier for him to remain silent. It creates a problem for all of us (and I include myself) because it forces us to examine our own attitudes and behaviours. And that is why we see so much controversy and distraction about something which, in truth, is a harmless but well meaning ten second gesture.
 
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ElBurroSinNombre said:
Have you read Southgate's statement made only yesterday - it gives you a very clear understanding of what he believes in (you state that you have no idea what he believes in)?

He makes his position very clear what he and (if we are being pedantic) what he believes the players think about this. Jordan Henderson, a senior player has also very recently confirmed that the squad is united with Southgate on this. Southgate has made several statements about racism in the past and these have always been consistent. In short, there is not one shred of evidence that Southgate thinks that it is 'crap' as you would have it, and in fact there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. So we do know a lot about what Southgate and the squad think.

Did you read the link about cognitive dissonance? What you are suggesting is a fantasy interpretation of the available evidence, but one that I think would confirm your underlying belief. It is very uncharacteristic of you to argue from a position where there is not one iota of supporting evidence, but needs must.

I have already answered your question (i.e. there is no evidence) but I'll go further. If Southgate didn't believe in this cause he would just keep quiet about it, like every other previous England manager. That he is prepared to talk openly about it is a good thing. Fairly naked racism and racist behaviour have dogged the England football team for the whole of my life. Anyone who has attended England football matches will know that it has been a historical problem. Southgate is a part of a solution to some of these problems and is doing something to create a better future for English football. I think he should be applauded for it, it would be much easier for him to remain silent. It creates a problem for all of us (and I include myself) because it forces us to examine our own attitudes and behaviours. And that is why we see so much controversy and distraction about something which, in truth, is a harmless but well meaning ten second gesture.
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This a great post, even by your high standards.

Southgate could easily resort to platitudes here, but he doesn't. The white players in the squad could keep their head down, and they don't.

I think British people are schizophrenic on this. We have a reputation for tolerance and being fair minded, but we also have some real mean-minded bigots too. And I agree with you that the England national team has been a beacon for the latter for a very long time.

Southgate could not be clearer about what he thinks and feels. The problem here is one of basic comprehension, from people who probably don't want to understand in the first place.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I have no idea what GS believes in, my point is that you cited his public statements as authority on what the England players believe in, but you ignore the substantial pressure to make those statements regardless of his, and for the matter the players private beliefs.

Now answer my question, do you think GS could make negative statements about taking the knee and keep his job.
Click to expand...
He could be non committal, but isn't, in fact he penned that letter describing exactly what he and players think.

What more do you want (except to agree with your view)?
 
Lost Seasider said:
I notice that neither of you answered the question.
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The thing with debates Lost, is that someone asks a question, expecting an answer, not a further rhetorical question. Therefore, no, it was not our turn. It was yours. My question was, do you think that Southgate is that duplicitous?

And for the benefit of future discussions, I won't be repeating my junior school tutorial in how to conduct debates.
 
As I see it is that the vast majority of people are totally against Racism.
Unfortunately those that have racism within them will never be converted.
'Taking the knee' has made the point, now we wait to see how long they continue with the gesture.
All next season? For ever? Who knows?
Now the problem will be when to stop it.
No one will have the guts to stand up and say 'You've made the point, now let's stop it'.
 
Footballers making a none political gesture against racism that lasts for less than 5 seconds shouldn't be an issue for anybody unless they are racist!
 
Davepick said:
As I see it is that the vast majority of people are totally against Racism.
Unfortunately those that have racism within them will never be converted.
'Taking the knee' has made the point, now we wait to see how long they continue with the gesture.
All next season? For ever? Who knows?
Now the problem will be when to stop it.
No one will have the guts to stand up and say 'You've made the point, now let's stop it'.
Click to expand...
Why should they stop it sorry?
 
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