London the new Covid hotspot

SlaveToTheRythm said:
What I don’t understand is for somebody who was originally advocating that the cure was worse than the illness you’re now changing tack and deciding The complete opposite
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Good point and something I've been wondering too. TAM has certainly changed his tune. Maybe he can explain why? No problem in revising your opinion, just curious.
 
SlaveToTheRythm said:
lots of different things go into the cake mix to produce what in theory should be a Fairly balanced outcome - I think that size of GDP contribution is fairly Chunky wouldn’t you agree. You know, Probably enough to suggest we don’t just apply a one size fits all strategy?

What I don’t understand is for somebody who was originally advocating that the cure was worse than the illness you’re now changing tack and deciding The complete opposite
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No I'm not - I am calling for consistency in the application of the Gov't's own rules and for the Xmas relaxation to be reviewed as this has very few economic benefits being as the likelihood is the whole country will have to face January in full lockdown to compensate

It also has to be acknowledged that whilst circuit breakers don't seem to work Tier 3 restrictions do to a degree

In the absence of a functioning test and trace system this seems to offer the best balance in the short term whilst we await the roll out of vaccines

So for clarity I think London needs to go into Tier 3 to avoid something worse not to further damage the economy

A consistency in the application of the rules is also crucially important if the Gov't is to keep the regions on side - there will be uproar ( and rightly so ) if they fudge that on the basis London should be treated as a special case
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
No I'm not - I am calling for consistency in the application of the Gov't's own rules and for the Xmas relaxation to be reviewed as this has very few economic benefits being as the likelihood is the whole country will have to face January in full lockdown to compensate

It also has to be acknowledged that whilst circuit breakers don't seem to work Tier 3 restrictions do to a degree

In the absence of a functioning test and trace system this seems to offer the best balance in the short term whilst we await the roll out of vaccines

So for clarity I think London needs to go into Tier 3 to avoid something worse not to further damage the economy

A consistency in the application of the rules is also crucially important if the Gov't is to keep the regions on side - there will be uproar ( and rightly so ) if they fudge that on the basis London should be treated as a special case
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At one time you were calling for those over 60 only to be locked down and everyone else to carry on as normal. Why have you changed your opinion? Do you not think that younger folk gaining natural immunity while older ones get the vaccine will achieve population immunity more quickly? Then we can all get back to normal.
 
If we remain in 3 and London remains in 2 then I really think there will be a backlash of sorts, be that people flaunting the rules or something more tangible. Many hospitality businesses in Lancashire are going to lose all their xmas revenue whilst some areas seem to thrive and do as they please. It seems a most unfair system and one rule for some and another one for others. Tomorrow is another big day in the covid scheme of things and whilst I have doubts I hope common sense can prevail. I can see us staying tier 3 and then the whole country back in national lockdown in the new year.
 
Loco said:
At one time you were calling for those over 60 only to be locked down and everyone else to carry on as normal. Why have you changed your opinion? Do you not think that younger folk gaining natural immunity while older ones get the vaccine will achieve population immunity more quickly? Then we can all get back to normal.
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I'm commenting on what is actually happening in relation to Gov't policy now not something that won't happen

Also those comments were made back in March when I don't think any of really had a handle on the scale of this and how long it would be before vaccines were readily available Most I think would accept you can't reasonably expect the over 60's to isolate for 12 months or more and if you do nothing the death rates amongst that group will rocket

Obviously in remains the case that almost all the deaths fall in that age bracket - I think the average age of those dying having tested positive is 80+
 
GJJW said:
BBC News - London likely to move to tier 3 amid rising rates
www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: London likely to move to tier 3 amid rising rates

Health officials are said to be “deeply concerned” about the number of Covid cases in the capital.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Sadiq Khan live on BBC news now keeps avoiding the question “so do you think London should go into tier 3 Mr Khan?”
Keeps referring to if the Government do this or the government do that and avoiding the question, asked 3 times now and 3 times he’s not answered the question, tosser. 🤬
 
I suppose in Tier 3 hospitality is closed notwithstanding the relaxation of the rules albeit it's households mixing / schools which seem to be the biggest issue transmission wise
 
From the BBC: 'Cases are rising and there are several east London boroughs that have seen more than 350 cases per 100,000 people in the past seven days. In Havering, there has been 470.
To put that in perspective, Manchester which is in tier three has seen 176 cases per 100,000 in the past seven days.'
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
I'm commenting on what is actually happening in relation to Gov't policy now not something that won't happen

Also those comments were made back in March when I don't think any of really had a handle on the scale of this and how long it would be before vaccines were readily available Most I think would accept you can't reasonably expect the over 60's to isolate for 12 months or more and if you do nothing the death rates amongst that group will rocket

Obviously in remains the case that almost all the deaths fall in that age bracket - I think the average age of those dying having tested positive is 80+
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Fair enough. The vaccines have come very quickly. Lockdown was initiated to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, to slow the virus down. Worryingly, I heard on the radio this morning a care home worker suggesting vaccinating residents might not lead to family visits as it is 'only' 95% effective and can't be sure to stop transmission. We will never be free if the true risks and comparisons with other causes of death continue to be overlooked.
 
They have to stop this ridiculous Christmas lifting for 5 days, everyone can see that it is going to put the whole country at risk and cases and death will soar.

Everyone I know are taking control of it themselves and are going to carry on not mixing households as they can have a celebration once things are back to some form of normality and it is safe to do so. There will be millions though who are too thick and selfish to do this and will mix and have Christmas with different households.

It is easy to catch, I know and it was outside, not indoors. Are you telling me people aren't going to be crammed round tables, hugging each other?
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Sadiq Khan live on BBC news now keeps avoiding the question “so do you think London should go into tier 3 Mr Khan?”
Keeps referring to if the Government do this or the government do that and avoiding the question, asked 3 times now and 3 times he’s not answered the question, tosser. 🤬
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It's not his decision, to be fair.
 
hertfordseasider said:
They have to stop this ridiculous Christmas lifting for 5 days, everyone can see that it is going to put the whole country at risk and cases and death will soar.

Everyone I know are taking control of it themselves and are going to carry on not mixing households as they can have a celebration once things are back to some form of normality and it is safe to do so. There will be millions though who are too thick and selfish to do this and will mix and have Christmas with different households.

It is easy to catch, I know and it was outside, not indoors. Are you telling me people aren't going to be crammed round tables, hugging each other?
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Weve planned to meet up with the family post jab or Easter, whichever comes sooner .
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Sadiq Khan live on BBC news now keeps avoiding the question “so do you think London should go into tier 3 Mr Khan?”
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Seems to be Labour policy on a whole range of areas (not just Covid); most notably abstentions on the current tiering system.

Mind you the one policy they did push for ended up being a total failure, so maybe that's for the best.
 
hertfordseasider said:
They have to stop this ridiculous Christmas lifting for 5 days, everyone can see that it is going to put the whole country at risk and cases and death will soar.

Everyone I know are taking control of it themselves and are going to carry on not mixing households as they can have a celebration once things are back to some form of normality and it is safe to do so. There will be millions though who are too thick and selfish to do this and will mix and have Christmas with different households.

It is easy to catch, I know and it was outside, not indoors. Are you telling me people aren't going to be crammed round tables, hugging each other?
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You've nailed it with the 2nd para. Millions too thick or selfish.....they'll do it irrespective of any 5 day relaxation which for the vast majority will be abided by.

Abandoning the 5 day is not an option and again the second para.

For us, there will be my house, inc 1 SB, and mini and missy- 3 h/holds in total. Nobody else. Mrs fcb gets tested weekly from Thursday which should be OK for me too (need advice on that....) . Mini and missy will get tested before coming. At least that's the hope.
 
There's a map been put up on the Times website showing those areas likely to be downgraded - Manchester Peak District Derby Notts etc

We aren't on it

Not sure how much you read into that but it suggests no Lancs split
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
There's a map been put up on the Times website showing those areas likely to be downgraded - Manchester Peak District Derby Notts etc

We aren't on it

Not sure how much you read into that but it suggests no Lancs split
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I'm not surprised TBH. East Lancs just isnt coming down enough.
 
Also ’ new variant’ found mainly in the South East which seems to have speeded up the spread of the virus.
 
Well well , they have said in parliament that certain places in Essex (Colchester, Harwich and others) will not go into tier 3 and remain in tier 2 . So I would expect that they would split Lancashire on a similar basis . If not I suggest there may be trouble !
 
Frank Lampard saying that football fans shouldn't be stopped going to games now they are in tier 3.
Thanks for that Frank your a bit late to the party with that one we should have all gone back in limited numbers or none at all.
 
Ahh so they’ve now worked out how to split counties but not the geographically large ones like Lancs.
Half arsed approach again. London should have been 3 to begin with well with the exception of theatres and opera as the masses need more of both right now 😡
 
Thought London would go into tier 3 so thats something.
Splitting Counties though is a tricky one imho and probably shouldnt be done unless a sizeable area had significantly low rates certainly less than 100 per100k Stick the whole Country in tier 3 until at least feb if not for all of tricky winter months & look again then make things clear. The Gov must offer support for the hospitality sector.
 
Chunkylad said:
Ahh so they’ve now worked out how to split counties but not the geographically large ones like Lancs.
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At the time the decision was made only Wyre and Lancaster were below 200/100k, too small an area and population to justify separate treatment, it'd be almost like giving different London boroughs different tiers.
 
Fortunately I got out for my birthday last weekend. Wasn’t that busy in Covent Garden. There were obvious rule breakers though. Everywhere you cared to look.
 
You have to laugh at these London Tories on the news saying that London shouldn't be grouped as a region but divided into small areas depending on the rate.

That's not acceptable up North of course. You lot are all lumped in together.
 
Lost Seasider said:
At the time the decision was made only Wyre and Lancaster were below 200/100k, too small an area and population to justify separate treatment, it'd be almost like giving different London boroughs different tiers.
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That's exactly what the Tory prospective London Mayor is calling for on Newsnight.
 
Just to say good discussion on this thread, obviously it's not an exact science and there is no right and wrong but good points made by both sides - if there are any sides ? - without anybody resorting to serious personal abuse or making ridiculous accusations.

You can't beat AVFTT.
 
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On a purely personal and selfish level and not interested in what should or should not happen re Blackpool tier levels:

My question is what tier will Blackpool be in from Wednesday ?
 
Lala said:
I thinking if we were moving out of 3 rumours would be abound already. Alas not.
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The rumour is that Manchester will move to tier 2. Not sure how many places currently in tier 2 will be moving to tier 3 mind.
 
Just watched Khan on Sky News. Issues that our hospitality sector here in the North West have had to suffer for months, are now being highlighted by him as not being acceptable.
What are the odds the sector down there gets a nice little handout?
 
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