Mick on Josh Bowler

BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not sure I've said any of that TBH... The trouble with you at times is you're that focused on your own daft argument, that you don't actually bother to read and digest what the other person has 'actually said' at all.
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of course you've said it. That's why so many people have disagreed with you. You said you wouldn't start him because it's like playing with 10,5 men if he's only capable of producing 5 minutes and 3 pieces of brilliance. So you'd only give him 20 minutes at the end of the game if we needed something. understand that point perfectly even if it isn't a specific quote. You wouldn't bring him on if we were winning as you likened it to a nuclear reaction, something along those lines, anyway.

No daft argument at all. Plenty of posters have told you the same but you like to be contrary mary and counter all their points. I guess so many of us are just misunderstanding what you are saying eh!
 
20togo said:
of course you've said it. That's why so many people have disagreed with you. You said you wouldn't start him because it's like playing with 10,5 men if he's only capable of producing 5 minutes and 3 pieces of brilliance. So you'd only give him 20 minutes at the end of the game if we needed something. understand that point perfectly even if it isn't a specific quote. You wouldn't bring him on if we were winning as you likened it to a nuclear reaction, something along those lines, anyway.

No daft argument at all. Plenty of posters have told you the same but you like to be contrary mary and counter all their points..
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Nah... You've just not listened and taken in properly... You've obviously just scan read my words, internalised them based on your own argumentative state of mind and then lashed out at me without thinking.

I'm cool with that (you get used to it after a couple of decades)...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Nah... You've just not listened and taken in properly... You've obviously just scan read my words, internalised them based on your own argumentative state of mind and then lashed out at me without thinking.

I'm cool with that (you get used to it after a couple of decades)...
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nah, too many others have disagreed with you on those points too. Guess were all daft eh! You are in the minority on this but yep that's how you like it.
 
20togo said:
nah, too many others have disagreed with you on those points too. Guess were all daft eh! You are in the minority on this but yep that's how you like it.
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Disagreed with me on what points?

Maybe they're all as daft as you, I don't know....

The specifics of what I have said are important, they provide the context behind the comments....

As I said earlier... I'm not obsessed with Josh Bowler... and nor am I obsessed with slagging off the Manager, the Board and everything else... I'm just interested in getting out of the mess that we've contrived to find ourselves in. If that means Josh Bowler doesn't feature in another game, I couldn't care less... If he plays 90 minutes every game i couldn't care less ..

I agree with Mick McCarthy that players need to work both on and off the ball, I think we need to stop conceding goals and that is our first priority at the minute and I think players need to know what is expected and that there's no mixed messages or compromise in that regard.
 
I have to say that I’m absolutely right behind the manager on this. If each one of our players even put half of the effort and energy that Jerry Yates puts into each game (week in week out) then we’d be absolutely flying up the league right now.

No matter what the lad has been asked to do, you get the same commitment, the same effort and so to me, he sets the standards that others need to step up to.

It’s hard to know what’s going on with Poveda, but the word on the street is that he has an attitude… If that’s the case then I’m afraid he’s in the right place sat on the bench… Likewise, if Bowler is going to saunter back when we lose possession, fail to try an win back the ball when he loses it and not get stuck in, then he’s going to be a 20-30 minute a game option, under current circumstances and that’s probably right too…(both players probably lack a bit of match fitness in any case).

I think Rogers has already shown enough to justify a place, although he too lacks match fitness and I think Charlie Patino will have benefitted from a bit of time out… He too is capable of upping the intensity compared to recent performances IMO.

We’re not exactly spoiled for choice right now, of course, so hopefully this message will be heard loud and clear and Mick will get the reaction he deserves.
 
I think quite simply every single player in the squad has to up their game between now and the end of the season.
Any lacking in ability needs to be compensated for by increased intensity and those with ability need to make sure they match it with intensity.
It is a team game and to be honest I've never felt that there has been any lack of team spirit. We need 11 Captains on the pitch encouraging one another.
We can get out of the mess we are in and whilst we need to be disciplined we still need the "magicians".
 
Insider said:
I think quite simply every single player in the squad has to up their game between now and the end of the season.
Any lacking in ability needs to be compensated for by increased intensity and those with ability need to make sure they match it with intensity.
It is a team game and to be honest I've never felt that there has been any lack of team spirit. We need 11 Captains on the pitch encouraging one another.
We can get out of the mess we are in and whilst we need to be disciplined we still need the "magicians".
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If you take the other night as an example… At one point Jerry has run and pressed all three defenders, first running to press on the left, next centrally, then on the right…

In the midst of his efforts he’s looking over at JB, to help out pressing the bloke on the right and Josh is ambling around with his hands in his pockets…

So whilst we do have a good ‘Team Spirit’ and the lads all respect each other’s individual abilities, we’re definitely not getting the same effort (not enough effort to put it bluntly) out of every player just yet.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If you take the other night as an example… At one point Jerry has run and pressed all three defenders, first running to press on the left, next centrally, then on the right…

In the midst of his efforts he’s looking over at JB, to help out pressing the bloke on the right and Josh is ambling around with his hands in his pockets…

So whilst we do have a good ‘Team Spirit’ and the lads all respect each other’s individual abilities, we’re definitely not getting the same effort (not enough effort to put it bluntly) out of every player just yet.
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Just being Devils Advocate if Jerry is doing what he does very well, pressing hard, then should Bowler (or A N Other) be finding space in which to take the ball if Jerry wins it.
When you look at the difference between the top teams and the rest of us, top players have this innate ability to find space.
We don't and that's another reason why our pass success rate isnt very good.
And just one very simple point if Josh is such a poor defender why not leave him on the halfway line when the opposition have a corner or attacking free kick.
Or God forbid put Poveda (say) wide on the left and Bowler wide on the right. How many defenders would that require?
 
Insider said:
Just being Devils Advocate if Jerry is doing what he does very well, pressing hard, then should Bowler (or A N Other) be finding space in which to take the ball if Jerry wins it.
When you look at the difference between the top teams and the rest of us, top players have this innate ability to find space.
We don't and that's another reason why our pass success rate isnt very good.
And just one very simple point if Josh is such a poor defender why not leave him on the halfway line when the opposition have a corner or attacking free kick.
Or God forbid put Poveda wide on the left and Bowler wide on the right. How many defenders would that require?
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Jerry isn’t looking to win the ball at that point he’s aiming to force the defenders to make a quick pass… the idea being that the second player in the press anticipates that pass and can nick the ball…

I’m not sure quite how ‘finding space’ really relates to this comment, but a lot of that comes down to first touch (Patino is a good example in our side - or was before Appleton ruined him)… Also I think good players work bloody hard off the ball to find pockets and create openings for themselves and others..(watch Riley McGree in the game vs Boro, who was superb at that IMO).

I’ve no problem with leaving Josh up, but I do have a problem with us simply allowing him to shirk any defensive responsibilities and win back the ball if he loses it etc… He’s actually more than capable of doing that and it amounts to effort rather than ability imo.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m not sure quite how ‘finding space’ really relates to this comment
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I think what I'm trying to say is we need to have players available "in space 😧" when we win the ball so that we can then use the ball better.
I'm not saying any player should shirk any of his duties but there will be times when we are defending down our left that we should be finding some space on the right for the release ball. Wide skillful players like Josh are ideal for that. We even used to do that with CJ when he first signed for us.
As for corners I've always wanted to ask the Manager what the "coaching manual" says about leaving players up at corners but it's a tactic that is very rarely these days.
I remember Coventry did it against last season (left 2 up at least on one occasion ) and I think they may have scored.
 
Insider said:
I think what I'm trying to say is we need to have players available "in space 😧" when we win the ball so that we can then use the ball better.
I'm not saying any player should shirk any of his duties but there will be times when we are defending down our left that we should be finding some space on the right for the release ball. Wide skillful players like Josh are ideal for that. We even used to do that with CJ when he first signed for us.
As for corners I've always wanted to ask the Manager what the "coaching manual" says about leaving players up at corners but it's a tactic that is very rarely these days.
I remember Coventry did it against last season (left 2 up at least on one occasion ) and I think they may have scored.
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Again, I’d watch Boro to see how a team should behave when the other side has possession and vice versa.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Again, I’d watch Boro to see how a team should behave when the other side has possession and vice versa.
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There's lots of examples of how to set up and play football better than we are doing currently.
These are just the thoughts of someone with no coaching badges just a life time of watching Blackpool.
Nothing more, nothing less. 😁
 
Insider said:
There's lots of examples of how to set up and play football better than we are doing currently.
These are just the thoughts of someone with no coaching badges just a life time of watching Blackpool.
Nothing more, nothing less. 😁
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The best teams work hard (and as a unit) both in and out of possession. There’s no alternative to that
 
hertfordseasider said:
Well that hasn't cheered me up, sounds like Josh off the bench again tomorrow, cloggers on from the start, aerial bombardment, 2 teams that aren't great footballing sides, ** Hell, it's hard to defend shite like that.
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Yep… Like he says, they don’t be coming here to fanny about, so we’d better be up for it…
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The ‘best’ 11 for what though?

Bowler doesn’t seem to be as effective starting games as he does coming on for the last 20-30 mins…. Over a 90 including him potentially leaves us coming up short defensively.
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Think that's pretty much an admittance that you wouldn't start him.Pretty much saying he's ineffective in the first hour and only effective in the last 20-30. If you think that is the case then how can you honestly say you believe he's worth a start? You really are full of it!
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If you take the other night as an example… At one point Jerry has run and pressed all three defenders, first running to press on the left, next centrally, then on the right…

In the midst of his efforts he’s looking over at JB, to help out pressing the bloke on the right and Josh is ambling around with his hands in his pockets…

So whilst we do have a good ‘Team Spirit’ and the lads all respect each other’s individual abilities, we’re definitely not getting the same effort (not enough effort to put it bluntly) out of every player just yet.
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yep, more tosh. We only had nine outfield players against their ten. They were always gonna have players in space. I can recall probably the same incident as you and you are talking utter bollux. Sure Jerry was running his nuts off along the line of their back three even though at that point it was more a back two. Why was it a back two? Because their wide left player had pushed up more towards the halfway line and Josh was covering off the ball being played directly to him. He forced their player to go sideways. By staying in his position he meant we still had eight players behind the ball whereas if he'd attempted to close the second defender down instead of Jerry then the ball would have gone forward to their third player and we'd have had two players ahead of the ball and out of the game and they'd have been able to turn their possession into an attack much quicker than they did. Sometimes you have to have the intelligence and presence of mind to realise that as Bowler clearly did at the time. On the other hand you didn't.
 
20togo said:
Think that's pretty much an admittance that you wouldn't start him.Pretty much saying he's ineffective in the first hour and only effective in the last 20-30. If you think that is the case then how can you honestly say you believe he's worth a start? You really are full of it!

yep, more tosh. We only had nine outfield players against their ten. They were always gonna have players in space. I can recall probably the same incident as you and you are talking utter bollux. Sure Jerry was running his nuts off along the line of their back three even though at that point it was more a back two. Why was it a back two? Because their wide left player had pushed up more towards the halfway line and Josh was covering off the ball being played directly to him. He forced their player to go sideways. By staying in his position he meant we still had eight players behind the ball whereas if he'd attempted to close the second defender down instead of Jerry then the ball would have gone forward to their third player and we'd have had two players ahead of the ball and out of the game and they'd have been able to turn their possession into an attack much quicker than they did. Sometimes you have to have the intelligence and presence of mind to realise that as Bowler clearly did at the time. On the other hand you didn't.
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It’s not an admittance that I wouldn’t start him at all. It’s a statement about his performances and where he’s seemed to be most effective… it’s also part of a wider discussion which I’ve framed in the context of ‘AT THE MOMENT’

Your second lengthy comment doesn’t merit a reply, save to say you’re talking bollocks and clearly haven’t watched the game or the passage of play.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s not an admittance that I wouldn’t start him at all. It’s a statement about his performances and where he’s seemed to be most effective… it’s also part of a wider discussion which I’ve framed in the context of ‘AT THE MOMENT’

Your second lengthy comment doesn’t merit a reply, save to say you’re talking bollocks and clearly haven’t watched the game or the passage of play.
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Oh i have, I was at the game and was right opposite the incident concerned. And of course it's not an admittance. Your hole is dug too deep to admit that now. So simple question, would you start him YES or NO, straightforward answer, no wriggling. But of course you will,
 
20togo said:
Oh i have, I was at the game and was right opposite the incident concerned. And of course it's not an admittance. Your hole is dug too deep to admit that now. So simple question, would you start him YES or NO, straightforward answer, no wriggling. But of course you will,
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It’s not my decision…

I’m behind the manager 100% whoever he chooses to start.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s not my decision…

I’m behind the manager 100% whoever he chooses to start.
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as i was saying. So no thoughts of your own then!

I'm also behind the manager 100% whoever he chooses to start. Never myself gone in for this selecting a team prior to the game. But then once the game finishes, I think it perfectly reasonable to question things if the performance is poor and the results are bad. That's what messageboards are for. You on the other hand simply try to justify everything he does and think he's averse to criticism. On the other hand you're not averse to criticising individual players even though you're in a very small minority. Like i said that hole you're digging just gets deeper and deeper.

Anyway, let's see what saturday brings. Any team selection that gets us three points is fine with me.
 
20togo said:
as i was saying. So no thoughts of your own then!

I'm also behind the manager 100% whoever he chooses to start. Never myself gone in for this selecting a team prior to the game. But then once the game finishes, I think it perfectly reasonable to question things if the performance is poor and the results are bad. That's what messageboards are for. You on the other hand simply try to justify everything he does and think he's averse to criticism. On the other hand you're not averse to criticising individual players even though you're in a very small minority. Like i said that hole you're digging just gets deeper and deeper.

Anyway, let's see what saturday brings. Any team selection that gets us three points is fine with me.
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I don’t really have any strong thoughts of my own if I’m being honest. I just object to the constant negativity towards the manager at a time when I feel we need to show him our support.

I don’t think we’ve been seeing the intensity levels that we saw under Critchley for most of this season and that needs to change.

As I’ve already said… Jerry Yates serves the standards that others need to step up to.
 
Insider said:
Just being Devils Advocate if Jerry is doing what he does very well, pressing hard, then should Bowler (or A N Other) be finding space in which to take the ball if Jerry wins it.
When you look at the difference between the top teams and the rest of us, top players have this innate ability to find space.
We don't and that's another reason why our pass success rate isnt very good.
And just one very simple point if Josh is such a poor defender why not leave him on the halfway line when the opposition have a corner or attacking free kick.
Or God forbid put Poveda (say) wide on the left and Bowler wide on the right. How many defenders would that require?
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Totally agree
I would fine Josh if he was more than 5 yds into our half
He and Poveda will scare the hell out of their defenders if left to run at them, but neither is particularly strong defensively so would not be missed in that role
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I don’t really have any strong thoughts of my own if I’m being honest. I just object to the constant negativity towards the manager at a time when I feel we need to show him our support.

I don’t think we’ve been seeing the intensity levels that we saw under Critchley for most of this season and that needs to change.

As I’ve already said… Jerry Yates serves the standards that others need to step up to.
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So you think CJ steps up to those standards then, and I'm talking about effort, ability to tackle, win headers etc.?

Anyway off out tonight, got an important date.
 
20togo said:
as i was saying. So no thoughts of your own then!

I'm also behind the manager 100% whoever he chooses to start. Never myself gone in for this selecting a team prior to the game. But then once the game finishes, I think it perfectly reasonable to question things if the performance is poor and the results are bad. That's what messageboards are for. You on the other hand simply try to justify everything he does and think he's averse to criticism. On the other hand you're not averse to criticising individual players even though you're in a very small minority. Like i said that hole you're digging just gets deeper and deeper.

Anyway, let's see what saturday brings. Any team selection that gets us three points is fine with me.
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I understand what you are saying here but I think everyone who has watched us regularly thought that was a dreadful starting 11 on Tuesday. I sincerely hope he learned a bit more about some of our players that night as the team should almost pick itself tomorrow. To me the only decisions to make are Grimshaw and perm any 3 from CJ Carey Bowler Lavery Poveda and Rogers . Carey and Lavery blotted their copy books last time out and Rogers divided opinion so maybe he will go CJ Poveda Bowler

I would line up
Grimshaw
Husband
Connolly
Nelson
Lyons
Trybull
Dougall
Rogers
Poveda
Bowler
Yates

Patino should still be on the bench for me and is a luxury player we cant afford right now though could be a decent option from the bench. I think McCarthy will play Maxwell CJ and maybe Lavery again.
 
TANGERINETOWERPOWER said:
I understand what you are saying here but I think everyone who has watched us regularly thought that was a dreadful starting 11 on Tuesday. I sincerely hope he learned a bit more about some of our players that night as the team should almost pick itself tomorrow. To me the only decisions to make are Grimshaw and perm any 3 from CJ Carey Bowler Lavery Poveda and Rogers . Carey and Lavery blotted their copy books last time out and Rogers divided opinion so maybe he will go CJ Poveda Bowler

I would line up
Grimshaw
Husband
Connolly
Nelson
Lyons
Trybull
Dougall
Rogers
Poveda
Bowler
Yates

Patino should still be on the bench for me and is a luxury player we cant afford right now though could be a decent option from the bench. I think McCarthy will play Maxwell CJ and maybe Lavery again.
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That's probably my starting line-up except Thorniley over Connolly simply because he's a leftie,
but it ain't gonna 'appen.
 
Insider said:
That's probably my starting line-up except Thorniley over Connolly simply because he's a leftie,
but it ain't gonna 'appen.
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Having worked with Connolly before at Ipswich I think Mick will find a way to play him as he likes his effort workrate and commitment...if he goes with Thorniley it will be Lyons who misses out at right back
 
Adams Kebab said:
Don’t rule out

Connolly
Nelson
Husband

CJ and Lyons as wing backs.
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That looks very negative and not what most on here would pick but as you say I wouldnt put it past him...if we play for 0-0 we may well get it but it wont be worth a toss at this point..its a must win NOT a must not lose game
 
Ultimately the manager`s job is to utilise and maximise the players talents available to him. For example Yates is hard working and so does a good job of closing opponents but rarely does he beat a marker, whereas closing down and tracking back is not Bowler`s strength, but he does have the ability to beat defenders create chances as well as scoring goals and often attracts two or three defenders which obviously creates space for others and let`s face it we have to score goals to win games otherwise we`re doomed. Bowler`s contributions both against Southampton and in a limited few minutes against Huddersfield perfectly illustrates he offers a unique attacking threat at our club.

It seems to me that our manager, a former defender himself, values that aspect of the game far more than the rarer skills that Bowler and Poveda offer.To escape relegation we need to win games not just defend well and we wont do that without a significant degree of flair and skill. Most defenders don`t offer too many attacking skills equally some attackers don`t have defensive skills and we have to accept that at this level but we need a balance of both to win the games we need to avoid relegation. not just eleven hard working journeymen.
 
Normanak said:
Absolutely. I can't recall a worse team selection than the other night and I've been supporting pool for 60+ years. Leaving your best players out is utter madness. I said in a previous thread he deserves the boot. We should have won that game. I know SS should stay out of team selection but if I were him I'd be 'gently' telling him one more fiasco like Tuesday night and your out. CJ preferred to JB ??? CJ's the weakest player in the squad, can't tackle and is nowhere near as effective as JB. I am really disappointed in MM.
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I'm hoping that actually, he's noticed that Bowler seems to play better when he's trying to prove a point.

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

He definitely does fwiw. He was amazing after Critchley dropped him, he was unreal after that game this year where he apologized to the fans.

I'm telling myself that's what Mick is doing. Mind games. 🤣
 
td53 said:
I'm hoping that actually, he's noticed that Bowler seems to play better when he's trying to prove a point.

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.

He definitely does fwiw. He was amazing after Critchley dropped him, he was unreal after that game this year where he apologized to the fans.

I'm telling myself that's what Mick is doing. Mind games. 🤣
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I hope you`re right. We will soon find out. But if not it could well cost us dear.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
Ultimately the manager`s job is to utilise and maximise the players talents available to him. For example Yates is hard working and so does a good job of closing opponents but rarely does he beat a marker, whereas closing down and tracking back is not Bowler`s strength, but he does have the ability to beat defenders create chances as well as scoring goals and often attracts two or three defenders which obviously creates space for others and let`s face it we have to score goals to win games otherwise we`re doomed. Bowler`s contributions both against Southampton and in a limited few minutes against Huddersfield perfectly illustrates he offers a unique attacking threat at our club.

It seems to me that our manager, a former defender himself, values that aspect of the game far more than the rarer skills that Bowler and Poveda offer.To escape relegation we need to win games not just defend well and we wont do that without a significant degree of flair and skill. Most defenders don`t offer too many attacking skills equally some attackers don`t have defensive skills and we have to accept that at this level but we need a balance of both to win the games we need to avoid relegation. not just eleven hard working journeymen.
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Surely this is just made up though, because you've actually never watched Blackpool play?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Surely this is just made up though, because you've actually never watched Blackpool play?
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As ever you really are a prize pillock aren`t you and can`t resist personal attacks .It is no surprise that you don`t address my argument but just me insultingly as you regularly have done whenever I post on here for a number of years. You are a very sad little man .

Incidentally I have seen a few games this season but the points I make can be fairly made however many games I have watched but of course you are incapable of dispassionately viewing my posts. Sad man.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
As ever you really are a prize pillock aren`t you and can`t resist personal attacks .It is no surprise that you don`t address my argument but just me insultingly as you regularly have done whenever I post on here. You are a very sad little man .

Incidentally I have seen a few games this season but the points I make can be fairly made however many games I have watched but of course you are incapable of dispassionately viewing my posts. Sad man.
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I wasn’t insulting you, I was just stating a fact and thereby undermining your ‘argument’. By contrast you actually have responded with insults.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I wasn’t insulting you, I was just stating a fact and thereby undermining your ‘argument’. By contrast you actually have responded with insults.
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But of course like so many of your contributions on here a totally erroneous statement ,like so many of your so called facts.
 
TANGERINETOWERPOWER said:
Having worked with Connolly before at Ipswich I think Mick will find a way to play him as he likes his effort workrate and commitment...if he goes with Thorniley it will be Lyons who misses out at right back
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If Lyons misses out to Connolly again at right back, ever again during his tenure. Sadler should fire him on the spot. Unless Lyons has a niggle or some sickness. When both are fit, there is only one player that should be there.
 
Reflects badly on him. First thing he should have done was watch all last seasons games along with this season’s so he knew the strengths of the players at his dispoSal. Beggars belief he didn’t know Josh’s position, lazy!!!
 
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