Mob rule

It's been voted best city in the world for 9 years on the run. Clearly its not mob rule.
One of my mates lives near alexandra Palace it's not the impression I get, I get a vibrant picture of wonderful transport systems, cafe bar culture and pubs.
 
Shandypants said:
It's been voted best city in the world for 9 years on the run. Clearly its not mob rule.
One of my mates lives near alexandra Palace it's not the impression I get, I get a vibrant picture of wonderful transport systems, cafe bar culture and pubs.
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Yes parts of it are great, I used to have a flat in Marylebone which was like a village community, but believe me, most parts of London suburbs are no go areas these days. Especially at night.
I suppose it’s the same or worse in most of our big cities and towns these days
 
CAGU said:
Yes parts of it are great, I used to have a flat in Marylebone which was like a village community, but believe me, most parts of London suburbs are no go areas these days. Especially at night.
I suppose it’s the same or worse in most of our big cities and towns these days
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That's not a picture my mate paints at all. He's lived in London for 14 years either in the Muswell Hill area or Hampstead Heath. He has three teenage sons and doesn't sound like he's coming back to the North West anytime soon. (If ever)
I know Manchester suburbs well, I don't recognise your no go zones, there are some rough areas in North Manchester such as Harperhey, Moston and Moss Side in Central Manchester. South Manchester crime rates are lowish.i wouldn't describe any of the above as no go zones.
What baffles me it's the right who depict these issues, the type of people who jump up and down and shout "unpatriotic" if you criticise the country. The type who say, if you don't like it leave 😄
 
CAGU said:
Yes parts of it are great, I used to have a flat in Marylebone which was like a village community, but believe me, most parts of London suburbs are no go areas these days. Especially at night.
I suppose it’s the same or worse in most of our big cities and towns these days
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I manage to live in SE London without boarding the doors and windows at 6 p.m. every night. London is no worse than anywhere else in terms of anti-social and criminal behaviour. It's just far bigger and gets more media attention.

Going back to the OP, I too would like to know what Sunak means by a "mob". The last one I saw creating mayhem on the streets of London and attacking police was that famous bastion of Muslim radicalism known as the Football Lads Alliance.

The Prime Minister is flailing around, desperately trying to find something that will connect him to the public. He may find that they won't forget the last fourteen years quite that easily.
 
I was in London for a fair few hours on Tuesday and didn't see any mobs. Not only that, at no point did I give any thought to whether I was unsafe.

It's divisive nonsense to try and scare the population into voting for the people who have created the perception of uncertainty in the first place.

How on earth can a Government who have been in power for 14 years believe it's someone else's fault?
 
It's a ploy that the right have used throughout history.
Create fear and loathing of 'the other' and use that to mobilize the population into electing you.
And we all know where this sort of thinking can lead.

This week we have had Anderson, Truss and Braverman making inflammatory statements. Sunak was just about brave enough to take on Anderson but in truth what Braverman wrote in a Telegraph article was far worse. And now Sunak, our PM, is at it himself and has clearly yanked some people's chain on here.

We are way, way better than this as a country.
We traditionally protect the rights of the individual to live as they please, to believe what they want, to worship as they want and to have whatever sexuality that they want. This is a great strength.

I prefer politicians who emphasize unity and inclusivity and not division.
That is the Britain that I am proud of.
The culture wars we have at the moment are very ugly and do not truly represent our great nation.

In short and IMO the culture wars currently pursued by the right are unpatriotic and will lead to a dark place.
We do need an election very soon.
 
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Because today's Britain is more inclusive than it's ever been there is going to be a wider range of factions protesting across an increasingly wide range of issues; whether that be gay rights, EU membership, ULEZ expansion or (as with the current focus), international conflict. Because liberty is important in an open, democratic society, these protests have a legitimate right to be made. Of course, they have to be managed carefully by both organisers and law enforcement agencies - and the participants have a duty to protest in a civil manner. However, the Government should not be going down the road of banning protests as that is the thin end of an authoritarian wedge. Where they might make a start is with the wild west world of social media. The major platforms need to be scrutinised and controlled much more diligently than their owners seem prepared to do.
 
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By banning protests where there is 'the possibility of disorder', as Sunak claims, those Judgement Day marches would never have happened, as the Oystons would be claiming they were living in fear.

Be careful what you wish for.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's a ploy that the right have used throughout history.
Create fear and loathing of 'the other' and use that to mobilize the population into electing you.
And we all know where this sort of thinking can lead.

This week we have had Anderson, Truss and Braverman making inflammatory statements. Sunak was just about brave enough to take on Anderson but in truth what Braverman wrote in a Telegraph article was far worse. And now Sunak, our PM, is at it himself and has clearly yanked some people's chain on here.

We are way, way better than this as a country.
We traditionally protect the rights of the individual to live as they please, to believe what they want, to worship as they want and to have whatever sexuality that they want. This is a great strength.

I prefer politicians who emphasize unity and inclusivity and not division.
That is the Britain that I am proud of.
The culture wars we have at the moment are very ugly and do not truly represent our great nation.

In short and IMO the culture wars currently pursued by the right are unpatriotic and will lead to a dark place.
We do need an election very soon.
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Open your eyes, both sides use it.

You only have to look at identity politics the left use, very divisive. The way they label people and put them into boxes to shut down debate.

So is importing anyone for more votes.

Be weak on immigration and import some nasty elements of the 3rd world you will start to become the 3rd world.

There are very real issues and clashes of cultures, with some extreme elements who wish to do us harm and hate the UK.

The left is squarely to blame for this, far too soft and like in Rotherham, facilitated terrible crimes against young girls and failed to call it our our of fear of being called racist.

The left has a lot to answer for.
 
JJpool said:
Open your eyes, both sides use it.

You only have to look at identity politics the left use, very divisive. The way they label people and put them into boxes to shut down debate.

So is importing anyone for more votes.

Be weak on immigration and import some nasty elements of the 3rd world you will start to become the 3rd world.

There are very real issues and clashes of cultures, with some extreme elements who wish to do us harm and hate the UK.

The left is squarely to blame for this, far too soft and like in Rotherham, facilitated terrible crimes against young girls and failed to call it our our of fear of being called racist.

The left has a lot to answer for.
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This thread is about the political response to protest in Britain. The democratic left in British mainstream politics is defined by the Labour Party and the Green Party. There are also some centre left principles in the Liberal Democratic Party and the SNP. All of these parties adhere to the principles of Parliamentary, Liberal Democracy. Your suspicions about 'the left' are not embedded in these parties. Where there has been intolerance, Labour has been determined to root it out. None of these parties either encourage or facilitate the import of extremists. If you believe that they do then you need to rethink your suspicions.
 
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Shandypants said:
That's not a picture my mate paints at all. He's lived in London for 14 years either in the Muswell Hill area or Hampstead Heath. He has three teenage sons and doesn't sound like he's coming back to the North West anytime soon. (If ever)
I know Manchester suburbs well, I don't recognise your no go zones, there are some rough areas in North Manchester such as Harperhey, Moston and Moss Side in Central Manchester. South Manchester crime rates are lowish.i wouldn't describe any of the above as no go zones.
What baffles me it's the right who depict these issues, the type of people who jump up and down and shout "unpatriotic" if you criticise the country. The type who say, if you don't like it leave 😄
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I was in Hampstead and doing a lovely walk round Hampstead Heath less than two weeks ago. I'm not quite sure that particular area of London is typical of what the o/p was talking about. Seems a bit of deflection from you as to what the o/p was getting at. No surprise though.
 
20togo said:
I was in Hampstead and doing a lovely walk round Hampstead Heath less than two weeks ago. I'm not quite sure that particular area of London is typical of what the o/p was talking about. Seems a bit of deflection from you as to what the o/p was getting at. No surprise though.
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I was wandering about Mile End, Leyton and Leytonstone. They are not leafy suburbs but I never felt in any danger.
 
There’s 32 boroughs and 9 million people that make up London so no one can say it’s all ‘safe’ it’s impossible.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
There’s 32 boroughs and 9 million people that make up London so no one can say it’s all ‘safe’ it’s impossible.
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By the same token, it can't all be run by mob rule, and Islamists as senior Tories are claiming.

I don't believe there are no-go areas anywhere, to be honest. It will depend on why you're going to some areas, obviously😉
 
Wizaard said:
By the same token, it can't all be run by mob rule, and Islamists as senior Tories are claiming.
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Absolutely but for anyone to say they would happily walk through every borough at midnight like some are implying clearly isn’t true.

Every City/major towns has good and bad areas London is no different.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
This thread is about the political response to protest in Britain. The democratic left in Britain in mainstream politics is defined by the Labour Party and the Green Party. There are also some centre left principles in the Liberal Democratic Party and the SNP. All of these parties adhere to the principles of Parliamentary, Liberal Democracy. Your suspicions about 'the left' are not embedded in these parties. Where there has been intolerance, Labour has been determined to root it out. None of these parties either encourage or facilitate the import of extremists. If you believe that they do then you need to rethink your suspicions.
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This thread is titled mob rule, we've seen elements of that and people are scared of a certain extreme element.

Let's put it this way and it's always the best thing to judge something, flip it around, if a different type of protest on the right maybe was breaking the law and projecting messages of hate onto the clock tower, what do you think would happen? Theyd be shut down sharpish. The Jewish community is very concerned right now.

We all know there's 2 tier policing, we've seen it many times. It's been easier to tackle those who call out things they see rather than address some issues, as it'll create anger in certain communities.

As for the parties of course their policies, values, lack of backbone, wanting an open door, failure to call out discusting crimes our of fear of being racist, of course that leads to big problems.

Extremists are allowed to be imported by weak rules, dodgy lefty Lawers, no control etc. The Tories haven't got a grip either tbf. The main parties are an absolute joke, put them both in the bin for me.

All I was saying is it's not all one sided and the left are to blame for a lot of this nonesense. Anyone who's called out genuine issues can be labelled, particularly by the far left lunatic groups who claim to be against hate but are extremely hateful. Elements of the left claim to want diversity but not diversity of opinion, as long as you agree with them it's OK, disagree and you'll be labelled.

Surely you can see how that leads to a divided society and makes it harder to tackle issues in certain communities.
 
JJpool said:
This thread is titled mob rule, we've seen elements of that and people are scared of a certain extreme element.

Let's put it this way and it's always the best thing to judge something, flip it around, if a different type of protest on the right maybe was breaking the law and projecting messages of hate onto the clock tower, what do you think would happen? Theyd be shut down sharpish. The Jewish community is very concerned right now.

We all know there's 2 tier policing, we've seen it many times. It's been easier to tackle those who call out things they see rather than address some issues, as it'll create anger in certain communities.

As for the parties of course their policies, values, lack of backbone, wanting an open door, failure to call out discusting crimes our of fear of being racist, of course that leads to big problems.

Extremists are allowed to be imported by weak rules, dodgy lefty Lawers, no control etc. The Tories haven't got a grip either tbf. The main parties are an absolute joke, put them both in the bin for me.

All I was saying is it's not all one sided and the left are to blame for a lot of this nonesense. Anyone who's called out genuine issues can be labelled, particularly by the far left lunatic groups who claim to be against hate but are extremely hateful. Elements of the left claim to want diversity but not diversity of opinion, as long as you agree with them it's OK, disagree and you'll be labelled.

Surely you can see how that leads to a divided society and makes it harder to tackle issues in certain communities.
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In that there are extremists in our society who wear left/right wing labels (Socialist Workers Party, EDL, etc) then yes, of course there are hateful, threatening and offensive messages that emanate from across the political spectrum. I alluded to that in my post at #10. Where this leads to violent mob activity, it has to be dealt with. But, that is not mob rule. We have Rule of Law in this country and yes, it is tested, frequently and in many different ways. However, where we have government by the left, (local, county and metropolitan authorities), it is carried out by the mainstream parties I have mentioned. As for them allowing extremists in, I'm sorry but I think you are very wide of the mark.
 
I feel a lot safer in London than I did in New York that’s for sure.

I have no experience of the suburbs so can’t really comment on the OP directly. I do think that London is an amazing city though, yep, best in the world for me 👌
 
Lala said:
I feel a lot safer in London than I did in New York that’s for sure.

I have no experience of the suburbs so can’t really comment on the OP directly. I do think that London is an amazing city though, yep, best in the world for me 👌
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Best in the world?

Is that based on a survey of two cities or have you been to them all? 😁
 
Rishi's latest comments were widely predicted. Whenever he is challenged in Parliament or an interview, he gets nasty, he cannot tolerate people questioning him. As a democracy, we need to be really careful that we are not at a tipping point. The Government defining a group which is against its policies as a mob has many parallels in history. They have already removed rights to strike, rights to protest, right to legally enter the country as an asylum seeker, and wish to remove us from the ECHR. Non of these are being proposed by the left, purely the right wing Government.

Their FEZ's will remove further rights, allowing them to set their own planning, employment and civil laws, whilst asset stripping, already seen on Teeside. If you look at the FEZs in Scotland, 2 sit on shale gas, coincidence??

Look forward 8 months, more accusations of mobs, more removal of rights. Prorogue Pariament and say it is too dangerous to have an election, but they will let it happen as soon as it is safe. Far fetched? maybe, but be careful what you wish for.

When someone screams and points at "the enemy", turn and look behind you for the real villains.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Absolutely but for anyone to say they would happily walk through every borough at midnight like some are implying clearly isn’t true.

Every City/major towns has good and bad areas London is no different.
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I was wandering around the King's Cross area before my train at 23.30. Never felt unsafe. Does it go dodgy at midnight?😉
 
Wizaard said:
I was in London for a fair few hours on Tuesday and didn't see any mobs. Not only that, at no point did I give any thought to whether I was unsafe.

It's divisive nonsense to try and scare the population into voting for the people who have created the perception of uncertainty in the first place.

How on earth can a Government who have been in power for 14 years believe it's someone else's fault?
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This is the thing though. They’re going around throwing these accusations as if they were the party in opposition
 
20togo said:
I was in Hampstead and doing a lovely walk round Hampstead Heath less than two weeks ago. I'm not quite sure that particular area of London is typical of what the o/p was talking about. Seems a bit of deflection from you as to what the o/p was getting at. No surprise though.
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What about the alexandra Palace area? He lives near there now, not as exclusive.
 
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Shandypants said:
What about the alexandra Palace area? He lives near there now, not as exclusive.
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I on't know that many areas of London at all. I was simply making the point that Hampstead, the area you quoted, is not typical of most suburban areas in London. Or any other city for that matter. And in that respect it really is irrelevant to the point the o/p was making.
 
20togo said:
I on't know that many areas of London at all. I was simply making the point that Hampstead, the area you quoted, is not typical of most suburban areas in London. Or any other city for that matter. And in that respect it really is irrelevant to the point the o/p was making.
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😂 Seriously? You’re doing it again?

I don’t know many areas of London but I’m going to opine confidently on the topic anyway. 😂
 
Shandypants said:
Hang on he's a leading authority on everything and the thing I admire the most, he's keen to show it off.
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Well he admitted on another thread that he didn’t know anything about The Great Replacement Conspiracy Theory. And certainly didn’t want to know anything about it. But thought it sounded very lefty and ergo not a good idea. 😂
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
It's dangerous times for democracy, not London.
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Now that is a well made point. America is heading down the toilet, Europe in all kinds of bother and we are heading the same way. You would think as the self appointed mother of modern democracy we would try a bit harder.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
😂 Seriously? You’re doing it again?

I don’t know many areas of London but I’m going to opine confidently on the topic anyway. 😂
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mmm... you're making the same mistake again. When you accused me of doing the same on the last topic, i pointed out to you that i didn't actually comment on the topic. I commented on you yourself because you were accusing people of being extreme right whilst you deny that you're an extreme left. wing. In other words, you have double standards.

And here you are doing it again. I simply pointed out that Hampstead and the Hampstead Heath area of London is far from the typical suburban areas of that city. Or would you deny that? So my point was the area of Hampstead was irrelevant to the point the o/p was making with regards to Mob Rule. And you'll see I've not actually made any comment on the actual topic itself.

So not me doing it again, it's you. Jeez, I thought people in your profession would be able to distinguish between what I've said and haven't said.
 
20togo said:
mmm... you're making the same mistake again. When you accused me of doing the same on the last topic, i pointed out to you that i didn't actually comment on the topic. I commented on you yourself because you were accusing people of being extreme right whilst you deny that you're an extreme left. wing. In other words, you have double standards.

And here you are doing it again. I simply pointed out that Hampstead and the Hampstead Heath area of London is far from the typical suburban areas of that city. Or would you deny that? So my point was the area of Hampstead was irrelevant to the point the o/p was making with regards to Mob Rule. And you'll see I've not actually made any comment on the actual topic itself.

So not me doing it again, it's you. Jeez, I thought people in your profession would be able to distinguish between what I've said and haven't said.
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😂 Yes. Thank you for clearing up the confusion.

(Wot did he say?)
 
20togo said:
mmm... you're making the same mistake again. When you accused me of doing the same on the last topic, i pointed out to you that i didn't actually comment on the topic. I commented on you yourself because you were accusing people of being extreme right whilst you deny that you're an extreme left. wing. In other words, you have double standards.

And here you are doing it again. I simply pointed out that Hampstead and the Hampstead Heath area of London is far from the typical suburban areas of that city. Or would you deny that? So my point was the area of Hampstead was irrelevant to the point the o/p was making with regards to Mob Rule. And you'll see I've not actually made any comment on the actual topic itself.

So not me doing it again, it's you. Jeez, I thought people in your profession would be able to distinguish between what I've said and haven't said.
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I know what you said 20s. It was still bollocks though, picking out Hampstead Heath. There are plenty of dodgy parts of London. Just as one could find trouble in any town if you go looking for it. But that's not the issue at hand. Sunak was referring to protesters. His choice of language was inflammatory and wrong. His evidence of problems - such as people demonstrating outside MPs' houses - was fair enough and needs attention. But calling it mob rule was silly and inflammatory.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I know what you said 20s. It was still bollocks though, picking out Hampstead Heath. There are plenty of dodgy parts of London. Just as one could find trouble in any town of you go looking for it. But that's not the issue at hand. Sunak was referring to protesters. His choice of language was inflammatory and wrong. His evidence of problems - such as people demonstrating outside MPs' houses - was fair enough and needs attention. But calling it mob rule was silly.
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mmmm..... it wasn't me who picked out Hampstead Jeez, read the thread properly.
 
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20togo said:
on the thread or on the piss? Nothing in your post to suggest you were "teasing". In fact, the whole of your post was concerning the topic.
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20s it was you who mentioned Hampstead Heath. I would never associate that place with mob rule. To bring it up is bizarre, so the only thing I can do with it is tease. Honestly I have made serious points through the day but if you think I was taking yours seriously well...OK.
 
I see Paul Scully Tory said.there were no go areas in Tower Hamlets and Sparkhill in Birmingham. I go for a Balti often in the Sparkhill area and whilst I wouldn't choose to live there have never felt.threatened. If he had said Alum Rock well ...
 
1966_and_all_that said:
20s it was you who mentioned Hampstead Heath. I would never associate that place with mob rule. To bring it up is bizarre, so the only thing I can do with it is tease. Honestly I have made serious points through the day but if you think I was taking yours seriously well...OK.
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mmm... I reckon Hampstead Heath is part of Hampstead which Shandypants was using to make point. And was the first to do so. Apart from saying I had a walk round Hampstead Heath all my other references have been to Hampstead.
 
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basilrobbie3 said:
I've seen a few people trying to score left versus right points in the last day or two, which is an utterly puerile argument.

Intolerance and bigotry look exactly the same, regardless of where they are on the political spectrum.
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…only in the last day or two…😂😉…your last sentence is so true👏👍…..unfortunately, the politically entrenched are blinkered…
 
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