Mr Bates versus the Post office.

J

JOHNMAJORTOM

Well-known member
Starts tonight on ITV. Toby Jones plays the sub postmaster accused of stealing money. thousands of pounds. money that had gone missing. Back in the day. Post office installed onto every sub post office the Horizon computer programme. When i worked there at Royal Mail. All the daily takings and transactions were done manually. every clerk did their balance sheets. money was returned to the safe and ready for the next day. there was virtually no chance of theft because the manager would check the balance sheets at the end of the week. Horizon was installed to do all this . But it was simply not doing it. postmasters and mistresess were charge with theft. And NO way of proving it. And they were led to believe that they were the only ones. its four episodes. Worth a watch i think.
 
I was there when Andy Pilley was lifted . But he had been cashing fake benefit books. His father worked as a royal mail manager. it broke him EDDY total nice guy. Seeing his son lifted by what was called the IB . investigation branch. not nice people.
 
It is absolutely scandalous, I hope this program gives it the exposure it needs, it is absolutely heartbreaking to watch and talk about making you angry. These poor people have been treated so badly and not compensated in any way properly for what it has done to their lives. Fujitsu, the company who own the Horizon computers are still operating the system in the post office and being given contracts with the Government even now.

The Post office should be taken to task as should Fujitsu, I need to watch the rest of it but it is impossible to watch this without a tear in your eye and anger in your belly. Toby Jones and the rest of the cast are brilliant.
 
Now considered the biggest miscarriage of justice in UK history. The lawyers who represent the postmasters say they have enough evidence for the police / CPS to prosecute the Post Office senior executives for perjury and perverting the course of justice. Whether this happens is another matter.
 
bfcpete said:
Now considered the biggest miscarriage of justice in UK history. The lawyers who represent the postmasters say they have enough evidence for the police / CPS to prosecute the Post Office senior executives for perjury and perverting the course of justice. Whether this happens is another matter.
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It looks like it is, news in the last couple of days that it is going to go for investigation, you have to hope these people who have lied and destroyed lives are completely and utterly destroyed.
 
hertfordseasider said:
It looks like it is, news in the last couple of days that it is going to go for investigation, you have to hope these people who have lied and destroyed lives are completely and utterly destroyed.
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No doubt their defence will be “I only said what I had been repeatedly told by our IT experts”.

Not good enough I am afraid. They had been told of the possible software bugs and chose to suppress that, in favour of continuing with the civil and criminal prosecutions of innocent people.

Certainly they ought to be stripped of their baubles and honours and made to pay compensation if convicted. But I have my doubts if they will ever get to court.

It will likely get “kicked into the long grass” in the run up to the next general election. The Public Inquiry is ongoing, albeit under-reported, and the authorities may be waiting for it to conclude.
 
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Vine covered this a few months ago on his wireless show, absolutely disgusting what happened to these people. From memory a number have died without clearing their name and one woman who had just given birth was sentenced to prison and separated from her newborn. The high up executives need a long spell in The Big House.
 
RADIO 4 have been covering this story foe some time. the reporter who i cannot remember his name followed this for years. good reporting.especially the sub postmisress in the south. making cakes and suchlike. AND they all went to the CROWN court and got her off the chsarges.
 
I’m going to start it tonight. It is absolutely hideous how badly these people have been treated. Could have been any of us, but for a different choice of profession. Awful.
 
How could the woman from Fujisu stand up in court and say that there wasn't a systems failure? Did that company not carry out systems audits as a matter of course?
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
You can watch the full series on ITV X

Compelling - I’m three in with final episode lined up for tonight 👍
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We stayed up and watched all 4, had to see it through, absolutely compelling and it should be a must watch for everyone, without doubt the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history. They have enough evidence for a criminal investigation to start once the inquiry is over this year, let’s hope those responsible face the consequences, I hope a few arses were twitching last night, the reaction on social media has been massive.
 
Following reading this thread i have just watched the first episode and agree its a must watch, heartbreaking stuff.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
How could the woman from Fujisu stand up in court and say that there wasn't a systems failure? Did that company not carry out systems audits as a matter of course?
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Fujitsu's role in this whole debacle needs to be highlighted. They knew there were faults in their IT which they tried to hide. Their seniot people were paid serious bonuses at the time for their work with the Post Office.
 
The Radio programme talked about a whistle blower at Fujitsu who knew their had been problems right from the start. but he was dismissed as incompentent . not sure where he is in the story but he was the FIRST to raise concerns
 
We recorded it and will watch 1 & 2 today.
Having started my working life as Telegram Boy (later called 'Young Postman) I am steeped with Po history.
I was on the P.O. Counter for a few years, both in Manchester & Blackpool
My Dad was a Postman Driver, as was my maternal uncle, one of his 2 sons was was on the PO Engineering side.
I drove a Red PO Van for about a year,
I met my 1st wife when she worked at Marton PO.
Can't wait to see the Prog. (x2 today).
 
Davepick said:
We recorded it and will watch 1 & 2 today.
Having started my working life as Telegram Boy (later called 'Young Postman) I am steeped with Po history.
I was on the P.O. Counter for a few years, both in Manchester & Blackpool
My Dad was a Postman, as was my maternal uncle, one of his 2 sons was was on the PO Engineering side.
I met my 1st wife when she worked at Marton PO.
Can't wait to see the Prog. (x2 today).
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its brilliant but incredibly sad DP, currently on episode 2 on itv hub and am going to binge all episodes whilst busy at work ...!
 
Davepick said:
We recorded it and will watch 1 & 2 today.
Having started my working life as Telegram Boy (later called 'Young Postman) I am steeped with Po history.
I was on the P.O. Counter for a few years, both in Manchester & Blackpool
My Dad was a Postman Driver, as was my maternal uncle, one of his 2 sons was was on the PO Engineering side.
I drove a Red PO Van for about a year,
I met my 1st wife when she worked at Marton PO.
Can't wait to see the Prog. (x2 today).
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Are you sure you weren't christened Pat rather than Dave?
 
Watched 1st episode today.
One thing that got me was didn't the investigators from the PO wonder why so many of the
Sub-Postmasters etc had 'cheated the system, and for many thousands of pounds?
Unbelievably disorganised.
 
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Wizaard said:
People committed suicide as a consequence. Its an absolute scandal.
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It's above scandalous Wiz.

I can't believe I only heard about this about 2/3 years ago.

I know this is only a drama but hopefully it will help highlight the tragic situation.

I'd like to see all those who stood there and did nothing - while good honest folk were sent to jail or at least had their lifes ruined - punished appropriately but I won't hold my breath.
 
Lala said:
Just watched the first episode. It’s really stressing me out watching it for these poor people 😡😡😡
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I know exactly where you are coming from LALA.

I know it's just a drama but I felt for every one of them when I was watching it and can't begin to imagine what it must have been like for them.

I say what it must have been like but they are probably all struggling to this day.
 
Fujitsu has been decimated over the past 10 years and will never really recover from this debacle. Post office was a flagship account and it got it spectacularly wrong. I hope they are reamed in the upcoming court cases (which are many).
 
Still to watch this. Sounds like they've made a good job of dramatising a very technical subject matter.

Alan Bates, the guy who headed the fight against the Post Office on behalf of those wrongfully prosecuted, clearly has strong morals - he recently turned down an OBE because Paula Vennells, the Post Office CEO throughout the scandal, still retains her CBE 👏👏👏
 
Markobfc said:
Fujitsu has been decimated over the past 10 years and will never really recover from this debacle. Post office was a flagship account and it got it spectacularly wrong. I hope they are reamed in the upcoming court cases (which are many).
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Yes not good. A friend used to work there, sounds like business suffered due to reputational damage.
 
The development of the Horizon computer system was started in 1999 at the prompting of the Post Office and then DHSS to coordinate benefits payments. The software contractor was ICL, which was taken over a few years later by Fujitsu.

The DHSS soon rejected it as inadequate but the Post Office insisted it be developed, possibly because of huge sunk costs. The villain of the piece appears to be the 7-year CEO of the PO, Vennells who continued with the conspiracy to hide its faults.

According to Conservative peer Lord Arbuthnot, who said: "The hallmark of Paula Vennells' time as CEO was that she was willing to accept appalling advice from people in her management and legal teams. The consequences of this were far-reaching for the Post Office and devastating for the subpostmasters. However, there seem to have been no consequences for her." He described the behaviour of the Post Office under her leadership as "both cruel and incompetent", and said that "she was faced with a moral choice and she took the wrong one, the one which allowed hundreds of subpostmasters to be falsely accused, humiliated and ruined by the organisation she ran" (Wiki)
 
Just watched episode 2 so please, no spoilers. Initially I thought that the forensic accountant from Second Sight was going to be a real nasty sort but he seemed to have done some good work.
 
Some great interviews if you go on Youtube and search ' Post Office Scandal '

The documentary on Thursday should be compelling
 
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