People who still won't have a Covid Jab

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Ollygon

Well-known member
One of my fairly close relatives still won't have a Covid jab, although she should now have had both of them.

She'd rather believe the crap on social media, rather than the urgings from her family, friends, health specialists and scientists.

I know the libertarians don't like compulsion, but I feel people should now be made to have the jab for the greater good of this country. If they don't they should be denied access to all public areas.

What do you think?
 
Ethically, I have to come down on the side of freedom of choice.
However, after listening to countless morons over the last year, telling me all sorts of absolutely ridiculous things that they’d read on-line or heard from their mates, then I’ve began to despair that some people are too thick to be given the freedom to choose for themselves.
 
This again.

Freedom of choice isn't applicable when your actions can potentially harm others.

Those refusing the jab are banking on enough people getting it so they can go about their lives, it's hypocritical narcissism.

There's no way of forcing them to get it but a vaccine passport would limit their activities. You're free to choose not to get it but society is free to choose not to let you endanger them.

Much in the same way you can't drive a car without a licence to protect others, this would be no different.

In short, fuck 'em.
 
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Tycho Brahe said:
People should not be forced, coerced or even cajoled to have carried out any medical intervention they do not want to have.
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I agree that people shouldn`t be "coerced", but they certainly should be "cajoled".

Social freedom and economic recovery will be achieved more quickly with a greater uptake in vaccination.

Adopting a moral attitude means doing what is good for others, not just yourself.

If you want a simply analogy it is like the Oyston boycott years, you didn`t have to boycott but those that did knew they had done the right thing and for the greater good.

Those that have had the vaccine have done it for the greater good too...
 
Ollygon said:
One of my fairly close relatives still won't have a Covid jab, although she should now have had both of them.

She'd rather believe the crap on social media, rather than the urgings from her family, friends, health specialists and scientists.

I know the libertarians don't like compulsion, but I feel people should now be made to have the jab for the greater good of this country. If they don't they should be denied access to all public areas.

What do you think?
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Tell her to get it sorted. The vaccine is safe and effective. Why people have to be either deliberately contrary or listen to nut jobs on social media is beyond me.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
This again.

Freedom of choice isn't applicable when your actions can potentially harm others.

Those refusing the jab are banking on enough people getting it so they can go about their lives, it's hypocritical narcissism.

There's no way of forcing them to get it but a vaccine passport would limit their activities. You're free to choose not to get it but society is free to choose not to let you endanger them.

Much in the same way you can't drive a car without a licence to protect others, this would be no different.

In short, fuck 'em.
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I could not put that any better 👍
 
spudgun said:
I agree that people shouldn`t be "coerced", but they certainly should be "cajoled".

Social freedom and economic recovery will be achieved more quickly with a greater uptake in vaccination.

Adopting a moral attitude means doing what is good for others, not just yourself.

If you want a simply analogy it is like the Oyston boycott years, you didn`t have to boycott but those that did knew they had done the right thing and for the greater good.

Those that have had the vaccine have done it for the greater good too...
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Provide people with all the evidence from all sides of the debate and let them make their own minds up.
 
Look, if you don’t want the jab then don’t have it, but don’t think the rest of the country is going to sit around much longer because of people like that. If they get ill then that’s the chance they take. Bu5 don’t come crying when your stuck on a ventilator because of an article you read on twatter
 
Scaramanga said:
Look, if you don’t want the jab then don’t have it, but don’t think the rest of the country is going to sit around much longer because of people like that. If they get ill then that’s the chance they take. Bu5 don’t come crying when your stuck on a ventilator because of an article you read on twatter
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Trouble is though Scara they could hamper herd immunity and fuck it up for the rest of us.
 
Ollygon said:
One of my fairly close relatives still won't have a Covid jab, although she should now have had both of them.

She'd rather believe the crap on social media, rather than the urgings from her family, friends, health specialists and scientists.

I know the libertarians don't like compulsion, but I feel people should now be made to have the jab for the greater good of this country. If they don't they should be denied access to all public areas.

What do you think?
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I think you’re talking utter bollocks
 
Read about the history of vaccines and you'll see that people have been stopped from doing things if they haven't been vaccinated for over 200 years. The only difference today is that people can winge about it on the Internet.
 
Ollygon said:
Many thanks for your constructive comment!
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You’re saying people should have their rights and freedom taken away over a personal choice that you don’t agree with!!! If anything it’s people like you who should have their rights and freedom taken away
 
If I was in a care home or hospital, I’d like to make sure that any nurses, doctors or carers looking after me were vaccinated.

As for everyone else, their selfishness is putting themselves and more importantly, others at risk.

I don’t think everyone should be forced to do it, but some jobs should be dependent on employees being vaccinated.
 
If there was another world war and everyone was told we had to have a black out, there’d still be the same people saying freedom of choice to have their lights on with curtains open.
The same people also shovel all sorts of shit into their mouths without understanding the chemicals in the food, potentially carcinogens and will take a variety of painkillers and drugs over the counter without fully understanding the effects.
 
BFCLSA said:
You’re saying people should have their rights and freedom taken away over a personal choice that you don’t agree with!!! If anything it’s people like you who should have their rights and freedom taken away
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They are not having their rights and freedoms taken away. They are being given the right to choose between having the vaccine and contributing to a free society or not having the vaccine and stopping a free society because not vaccinating can lead to others having, not just their freedom, but their life taken away.
 
Tycho Brahe said:
Provide people with all the evidence from all sides of the debate and let them make their own minds up.
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The problem is people won't listen to the weight of science, thousands of virologists and scientists etc, yet a couple of youtube videos from MR Truth citing one man, an ex doctor, as his source and suddenly its true.

By all means listen and take it on board but cover ups or facts are hard to distort on such huge levels.

With the vaccine its proven with minimal risks, yes its been rushed compared to normal but there's a good reason as the world was in chaos.

We'd love to have waited 10 years to trail it and see if any long term issues arise in a small number of people, but that wasn't viable.

The risks from having covid seem much worse, your more likely to have covid and get some of the nastier outcomes from it than from the vaccine.

People should trust science of the vaccine, they trust it in other areas and wouldn't question it elsewhere.

But here suddenly everyone is an expert against it. Also against the variants.

You see stuff like ahh well its clearly bollox now, yet another variant, they obviously want to keep us locked up. Why would they, it makes no sense, these guys care about the economy and money too much.

If you ask these people how would a pandemic go if it was for real (as for some its not real) don't you think a virus spreading through millions would mutate, its basic stuff.

Doesn't mean the government hasn't over played things, made mistakes and has completely contradicting rules etc.
 
JJpool said:
The problem is people won't listen to the weight of science, thousands of virologists and scientists etc, yet a couple of youtube videos from MR Truth citing one man, an ex doctor, as his source and suddenly its true.

By all means listen and take it on board but cover ups or facts are hard to distort on such huge levels.

With the vaccine its proven with minimal risks, yes its been rushed compared to normal but there's a good reason as the world was in chaos.

We'd love to have waited 10 years to trail it and see if any long term issues arise in a small number of people, but that wasn't viable.

The risks from having covid seem much worse, your more likely to have covid and get some of the nastier outcomes from it than from the vaccine.

People should trust science of the vaccine, they trust it in other areas and wouldn't question it elsewhere.

But here suddenly everyone is an expert against it. Also against the variants.

You see stuff like ahh well its clearly bollox now, yet another variant, they obviously want to keep us locked up. Why would they, it makes no sense, these guys care about the economy and money too much.

If you ask these people how would a pandemic go if it was for real (as for some its not real) don't you think a virus spreading through millions would mutate, its basic stuff.

Doesn't mean the government hasn't over played things, made mistakes and has completely contradicting rules etc.
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Firstly there are millions of scientists, doctors and nurses who have opposed the current governments' and corporate mainstream media's 'scientific' narrative not just a few.

Other than that do you not think it might be a very slippery slope to not allow people freedom of choice when it comes to medicines?

Dangerous to hold a blind trust in authority in my opinion.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
If there was another world war and everyone was told we had to have a black out, there’d still be the same people saying freedom of choice to have their lights on with curtains open.
The same people also shovel all sorts of shit into their mouths without understanding the chemicals in the food, potentially carcinogens and will take a variety of painkillers and drugs over the counter without fully understanding the effects.
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Not the same.
 
rockontommy said:
The sooner everyone stops thinking they are super heroes for getting jabbed, or improving the human race by turning on people, or part of some grand war effort, the better. Embarrassing.
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And the sooner the rest of you realise you're not having a microchip injected into you or you're going to grow a third ear then maybe we can get back to some sort of normality.
Crazy😜
 
gjr69 said:
If these jabs are so good why does anyone who has them concerned about those that haven't?
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The exact stupid remark a non jabber comes back with.
Its been stated that even a double jabbed can still contract covid but dying from it is massively reduced.
If you haven't been jabbed death is a reality.
The strain on the NHS has been overwhelming and other important procedures have been delayed or even cancelled in some cases.
But hey the selfish few seem happy to slow the escape of all of this yet you can guarantee that theyll be moaning like bitches if the stalling of the release of lockdown isnt implemented and pubs close again and gigs and sporting events get cancelled or no fans can go.
It's two bleeding jabs for gods sake, no ones asking you to walk over broken glass.
 
Tycho Brahe said:
Firstly there are millions of scientists, doctors and nurses who have opposed the current governments' and corporate mainstream media's 'scientific' narrative not just a few.

Other than that do you not think it might be a very slippery slope to not allow people freedom of choice when it comes to medicines?

Dangerous to hold a blind trust in authority in my opinion.
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In true Avftt fashion, please post some links from the opposite opinion scientists. I’d like to read the counter argument from eminent experts in disease control of why the vaccine is wrong.
Genuine post by the way.
 
Wizzerboy said:
And the sooner the rest of you realise you're not having a microchip injected into you or you're going to grow a third ear then maybe we can get back to some sort of normality.
Crazy😜
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I realise I'm not having a microchip injected or going to grow a third ear from having the jab but if it's easier for you to imagine me as some dimwitted conspiracy nut, then crack on. But I will indulge you, just this once, to tell you my actual rationale if that helps.

The reason I won't be having it is not because they cause deadly blood clots at a rate which poses more risk to me than c-19 - even though they do.

It's not because there isn't any medium or long term safety data yet - even though there isn't.

It's not because I'm an awkward ** - even though I am.

No, I wouldn't have it even if I knew the clinician was injecting water. That is because I won't ever willingly go along with my basic freedoms being removed and only reinstated contingent on me undergoing a medical procedure. Lockdowns pose a much greater risk to my health and wellbeing than any virus. Statistically and spiritually.

It's a line in the sand I drew a long time ago. Now, if that sends a few of you into a tizz, and it appears it does, then so be it. I'm kinda enjoying watching how far people are willing to go with this one because there are millions like me who would literally have to be rounded up who feel exactly the same.

The idea, as one poster has stated, that we are all sat around waiting for a critical mass of people to be jabbed before returning to normality is completely laughable. We have acted with complete sovereignty over our movements and relationships throughout this shit show and will continue to do so.
 
Chunkylad said:
In true Avftt fashion, please post some links from the opposite opinion scientists. I’d like to read the counter argument from eminent experts in disease control of why the vaccine is wrong.
Genuine post by the way.
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They've been silenced, all millions of them... Will probably be the answer.

Thats some cover up, with no whistleblowers, seems strange no?
 
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gjr69 said:
If these jabs are so good why does anyone who has them concerned about those that haven't?
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Because, as yet, there isn't a vaccine available that provides immunity from being a hysterical, virtue signalling bedwetter.
 
rockontommy said:
Because, as yet, there isn't a vaccine available that provides immunity from being a hysterical, virtue signalling bedwetter.
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Is it just the Covid vaccine or do you refuse all medicine? A friend of mine has cancer and has decided he will not take up the treatment but will seek an alternative approach. He also not vaccinated
 
Lockdowns poses a much greater risk to my health and wellbeing than any virus.

Yet you still deny yourself the oppertunity of breaking out of lockdowns by refusing to have the vaccine.

That's one hell of a line to be drawn in the sand.

You'll do for me, rockontommy🤣🤣🤣
 
Chunkylad said:
Is it just the Covid vaccine or do you refuse all medicine? A friend of mine has cancer and has decided he will not take up the treatment but will seek an alternative approach. He also not vaccinated
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Just this one, for me. As I said, there is far too much weight (bullying even?) attached to it which doesn't come with any other medical treatment. I've always faced down bullies and this situation will be no different.
 
Wizzerboy said:
Lockdowns poses a much greater risk to my health and wellbeing than any virus.

Yet you still deny yourself the oppertunity of breaking out of lockdowns by refusing to have the vaccine.

That's one hell of a line to be drawn in the sand.

You'll do for me, rockontommy🤣🤣🤣
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It's not really for me to worry about if you think that is absurd. You worry yourself with how you are going to paint yourself out of the corner you are in.
 
rockontommy said:
It's not really for me to worry about if you think that is absurd. You worry yourself with how you are going to paint yourself out of the corner you are in.
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Im not in a corner kid, you just make sure no one gives you a paintbrush you'll paint yourself!!
 
Struggling to see how the offer of avoiding a potentially deadly virus is perceived by some as ‘bullying’.

Assumedly, if the same people were trapped upstairs in a blazing house, they’d refuse to get on a ladder put up to the window, preferring to die with their ‘human rights’ intact rather than be ‘bullied’ into getting onto said ladder....
 
rockontommy said:
Just this one, for me. As I said, there is far too much weight (bullying even?) attached to it which doesn't come with any other medical treatment. I've always faced down bullies and this situation will be no different.
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Great, well if a third wave comes because not enough people have been vaccinated you can face down the bullies while being turned away from A & E because the NHS has collapsed, after all it's about personal moral victories 👍
 
For some who believe in conspiracies about the government controlling us with the vaccine etc, you can be sure if the government said ok screw it no vaccine at all.

They would be accused of then population culling, 'see they want to reduce our numbers by letting this virus flow freely'

They can't really win.

That would be gross negligence on a huge scale knowing we had the ability to save many lives.

The vaccine isn't perfect but it does massively reduce the chances of dying or any serious covid outcomes.

It also reduces transmission.

People love to say well you can have it and still die or still pass it on so its pointless. No, its not pointless. Yes the vuberable are protected but with it flowing through the population more freely you will get more mutations.

Also as theres a small chance of still having issues, the more its around, the vaccinated people are at higher risk.

There may be some concerns for pregnant women etc but I think that was laid to rest recently. A lot refusing are not women anyway.

I do wonder if people scrutinising the ingredients do the same for everything.

I spoke to someone doing just that saying ahh this ingredient causes cancer blah blah.

I said do you analyse every bit of food and medicine to the same degree. No he said.

Yet there's tons of bad chemicals etc in stuff all the time.

Same person drinks heavily, which causes untold damage in reality.

Its completely hypocritical some of the scrutiny, where they won't apply it for similar circumstances in other areas of life and probably take countless drugs from a pharmacy with little to no thought.

🙄
 
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These dirty antivaxxers piss me right off.

On one hand refusing the vaccine and in the next breath snorting some random narcotic or worse injecting some other shit in their arms.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Great, well if a third wave comes because not enough people have been vaccinated you can face down the bullies while being turned away from A & E because the NHS has collapsed, after all it's about personal moral victories 👍
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Maybe I've not been clear enough. I don't give a fuck if there is a third wave or if the NHS crumbles. There is a virus swilling around the world's population that I have no control over and the NHS is on its arse every single year since time immemorial. The difference in human cost of it collapsing or disproportionately weighted towards Covid is academic anyway, as anyone who has tried to get a face to face GP appointment this year will attest.

It's exactly these made up scenarios that I was getting at in my first comment. Everyone thinks they are a hero. What if this was a fire, what if this was a war, what if the health system collapsed - always with the detractor setting themselves as the fireman, the soldier. In your case, the valiant NHS apparatchik saving the NHS.

It's the same mindset with people who think they're saving the planet by washing their jar of Hellman's in the sink before recycling it. Complete make believe. Amusing though.
 
I’m not trying to be clever here I’m asking the question because I don’t understand how the narrative has changed.

It’s gone from the vulnerable to being vaccinated to release freedoms to seemingly everyone now? Then on top of that, people who are fit and healthy and under the age of 40 with a well known recovery rate of 99.98% from this virus are now being ridiculed or being called selfish for not having a vaccine? They won’t end up in hospital anyway?

Am I missing something with the above genuinely? Help me out.
 
rockontommy said:
Maybe I've not been clear enough. I don't give a fuck if there is a third wave or if the NHS crumbles. There is a virus swilling around the world's population that I have no control over and the NHS is on its arse every single year since time immemorial. The difference in human cost of it collapsing or disproportionately weighted towards Covid is academic anyway, as anyone who has tried to get a face to face GP appointment this year will attest.

It's exactly these made up scenarios that I was getting at in my first comment. Everyone thinks they are a hero. What if this was a fire, what if this was a war, what if the health system collapsed - always with the detractor setting themselves as the fireman, the soldier. In your case, the valiant NHS apparatchik saving the NHS.

It's the same mindset with people who think they're saving the planet by washing their jar of Hellman's in the sink before recycling it. Complete make believe. Amusing though.
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So the government closed the economy on a whim and that whiteboard photo with NHS COLLAPSE written all over it was just idle speculation?

Why do you think they did it? What evidence do you have that they didn't? Please let the readers know why every single model, expert and warning was just fantasy.
 
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