People who still won't have a Covid Jab

[rockontommy]

So the government closed the economy on a whim and that whiteboard photo with NHS COLLAPSE written all over it was just idle speculation?

Why do you think they did it? What evidence do you have that they didn't? Please let the readers know why every single model, expert and warning was just fantasy.

Plenty of evidence these models are consistently out by various degrees of magnitude. The current situation (almost flatlining on deaths) is running way below SAGE's best case scenario for just one example.

Can't be arsed pointing you to the many, many times doom has been predicted and not happened. Or other countries which took a different path.

Let's agree to disagree on this one

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

It looks like refusing to get vaccinated is all about retaining the desire to whinge.

You can whinge about being forced into something, whinge about your basic human rights being affected, whilst contributing to a 3rd wave which will provide future whinge potential.

Getting vaccinated and allowing society to return to normal would kill off guaranteed whinging opportunities.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

It looks like refusing to get vaccinated is all about retaining the desire to whinge.

You can whinge about being forced into something, whinge about your basic human rights being affected, whilst contributing to a 3rd wave which will provide future whinge potential.

Getting vaccinated and allowing society to return to normal would kill off guaranteed whinging opportunities.

Yet in fairness, the pro-vaxxers seem to be doing the lions share of whinging ?

 

[Adams Kebab]

It looks like refusing to get vaccinated is all about retaining the desire to whinge.

You can whinge about being forced into something, whinge about your basic human rights being affected, whilst contributing to a 3rd wave which will provide future whinge potential.

Getting vaccinated and allowing society to return to normal would kill off guaranteed whinging opportunities.

Beats whinging about an Indian Variant doesn’t it soppy bollocks?

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

Beats whinging about an Indian Variant doesn’t it soppy bollocks?

What's a bit of exponential growth to worry about eh, especially for those who want a 3rd wave to whinge about?

 

[Adams Kebab]

What's a bit of exponential growth to worry about eh, especially for those who want a 3rd wave to whinge about?

We’re still waiting though aren’t we since you starting hyping it, nobody wants a 3rd wave but I think you’d be happy, one because you could say I told you so and two because you probably have zero social life.

Spoiler: There won’t be a 3rd wave, just like your variants are nullified by the vaccine.

Wanting an end to restrictions or for businesses to reopen properly to make money is not whinging, just asking for common sense. Hopefully if the deaths go into the minuses you might eventually jump on board.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

We’re still waiting though aren’t we since you starting hyping it, nobody wants a 3rd wave but I think you’d be happy, one because you could say I told you so and two because you probably have zero social life.

Spoiler: There won’t be a 3rd wave, just like your variants are nullified by the vaccine.

Wanting an end to restrictions or for businesses to reopen properly to make money is not whinging, just asking for common sense. Hopefully if the deaths go into the minuses you might eventually jump on board.

The very point of alerting people 4 weeks ago was to prevent a third wave so job done if it gets contained.

 

[Adams Kebab]

The very point of alerting people 4 weeks ago was to prevent a third wave so job done if it gets contained.

You should’ve gone on the Bolton and Blackburn message boards as well... you could have stopped the “exponential rises”... #hero

 

[Wizaard]

Firstly there are millions of scientists, doctors and nurses who have opposed the current governments' and corporate mainstream media's 'scientific' narrative not just a few.

Other than that do you not think it might be a very slippery slope to not allow people freedom of choice when it comes to medicines?

Dangerous to hold a blind trust in authority in my opinion.

Millions of scientists doctors and nurses. Where's that list?

 

[Wizaard]

We’re still waiting though aren’t we since you starting hyping it, nobody wants a 3rd wave but I think you’d be happy, one because you could say I told you so and two because you probably have zero social life.

Spoiler: There won’t be a 3rd wave, just like your variants are nullified by the vaccine.

Wanting an end to restrictions or for businesses to reopen properly to make money is not whinging, just asking for common sense. Hopefully if the deaths go into the minuses you might eventually jump on board.

Spoiler. You said there wouldn't be a second wave.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

You should’ve gone on the Bolton and Blackburn message boards as well... you could have stopped the “exponential rises”... #hero

The message got through there as they introduced emergency vaccination centres to increase protection.

Warning people ahead of danger is what any normal human being would do. To try and mock that makes you appear selfish, self-centred and unable to care for others.

 

[Adams Kebab]

Spoiler. You said there wouldn't be a second wave.

Don’t think I did? It was winter we had no vaccine. I’m not going to ask you for evidence leave that to Lost.

 

[Wizaard]

Don’t think I did? It was winter we had no vaccine. I’m not going to ask you for evidence leave that to Lost.

 

[Adams Kebab]

The message got through there as they introduced emergency vaccination centres to increase protection.

Warning people ahead of danger is what any normal human being would do. To try and mock that makes you appear selfish, self-centred and unable to care for others.

Ha ha belter.

I would say creating unnecessary hype and hysteria for people who may be struggling mentally with all this is selfish, because all your hype hasn’t come to anything has it, because the vaccines work.

Well done on increasing the vaccine uptake in Bolton though fellar from your post on Avftt.

 

[Davepick]

What I would say to the 'anti-vaccers' is, do you seriously think that without the vaccine we would be in the place where we are now?
By 'the place' I mean that the rate of infection has diminished considerably since vaccines were started.
Or was that just coincidence?
Look at India, hospitalisation & deaths at a very high rate. And the 'Indian Strain' possibly would not have happened if they'd had a vaccine earlier.
Bury your head in the sand over a principle if you must. But you cannot argue the fact that thousands of lives have probably been saved by having the vaccines.
Possibly even some of the doubters families.

 

[Magic147]

If you're vaccinated, what difference does it make if other people choose to have it or not?

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

If you're vaccinated, what difference does it make if other people choose to have it or not?

The more people there are unvaccinated, the more mutations occur, the less effective the current vaccines become.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

If you're vaccinated, what difference does it make if other people choose to have it or not?

Fuck me sideways...

 

[Bamber]

I’m not trying to be clever here I’m asking the question because I don’t understand how the narrative has changed.

It’s gone from the vulnerable to being vaccinated to release freedoms to seemingly everyone now? Then on top of that, people who are fit and healthy and under the age of 40 with a well known recovery rate of 99.98% from this virus are now being ridiculed or being called selfish for not having a vaccine? They won’t end up in hospital anyway?

Am I missing something with the above genuinely? Help me out.

You're not missing anything. It's mass psychosis caused by government propaganda.

 

[Bluecabinboy]

Maybe I've not been clear enough. I don't give a fuck if there is a third wave or if the NHS crumbles. There is a virus swilling around the world's population that I have no control over and the NHS is on its arse every single year since time immemorial. The difference in human cost of it collapsing or disproportionately weighted towards Covid is academic anyway, as anyone who has tried to get a face to face GP appointment this year will attest.

It's exactly these made up scenarios that I was getting at in my first comment. Everyone thinks they are a hero. What if this was a fire, what if this was a war, what if the health system collapsed - always with the detractor setting themselves as the fireman, the soldier. In your case, the valiant NHS apparatchik saving the NHS.

It's the same mindset with people who think they're saving the planet by washing their jar of Hellman's in the sink before recycling it. Complete make believe. Amusing though.

You’ve sadly made yourself abundantly
clear - basically you don’t give a fk about anyone or anything except your ‘principles’.

Fair enough - & equally I don’t give a fk if you have the jab or choose to shove a banana up your a*se on an hourly basis - your choice.

Equally, don’t assume I’m anyone’s metaphorical ‘hero’ or ‘fireman’ - certainly not yours.

What I do object to is your puerile pseudo-macho arrogance in bellowing how ‘no-one tells me what to do’ via your personal ‘moral values’ in choosing to continue to potentially expose the wider population to harm on account of ‘your human rights’.

 

[seasideone]

Maybe I've not been clear enough. I don't give a fuck if there is a third wave or if the NHS crumbles. There is a virus swilling around the world's population that I have no control over and the NHS is on its arse every single year since time immemorial. The difference in human cost of it collapsing or disproportionately weighted towards Covid is academic anyway, as anyone who has tried to get a face to face GP appointment this year will attest.

It's exactly these made up scenarios that I was getting at in my first comment. Everyone thinks they are a hero. What if this was a fire, what if this was a war, what if the health system collapsed - always with the detractor setting themselves as the fireman, the soldier. In your case, the valiant NHS apparatchik saving the NHS.

It's the same mindset with people who think they're saving the planet by washing their jar of Hellman's in the sink before recycling it. Complete make believe. Amusing though.

You mention what if a lot, so let me add one more….

What if I am a selfish **?

 

[rockontommy]

 

[Adams Kebab]

The very point of alerting people 4 weeks ago was to prevent a third wave so job done if it gets contained.

You missed the boat with the Nepal variant. Apparently this was a thing but just for 12 hours or so as it’s now dismissed. That’s 12 hours of alerting people you missed.

Similar with the Thai, the double mutant Yorkshire and any other variant.

Scaremongering bollocks. Roll on June 21st.

Back to life... back to reality

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

You missed the boat with the Nepal variant. Apparently this was a thing but just for 12 hours or so as it’s now dismissed. That’s 12 hours of alerting people you missed.

Similar with the Thai, the double mutant Yorkshire and any other variant.

Scaremongering bollocks. Roll on June 21st.

Back to life... back to reality

Not for 130,000 British people it won't be.

 

[Davepick]

It seems to me that, for certain people, the only reason that they won't have a jab is because they feel that their 'basic freedom' is being taken away.
Is that idiotic thinking or what?
So if you were in a group who were told that if they did not have a certain inoculation you would die, would you still say 'No'?
What about the 'flu jab? Don't know what age you are but will you refuse that, because it's taking away your 'basic freedom'?
Or is it because you are afraid of having a needle which might hurt a little?
Talk about 'I'm me and F*** the rest of you.
Pathetic.

 

[Adams Kebab]

Not for 130,000 British people it won't be.

*Within 28 days of a positive test.

People die every day, 1400+, they always have and tragically always will. Life is for living and not existing. It’s time to accept this and move on.

I’m just glad Jerry Yates got to play in the play-offs, I know you thought it was a major risk him bouncing around with fans outside after the Doncaster game... this type of bed wetting and panicked thinking needs to be ironed out.

We know the risks, we know the vaccines work, personal responsibility is now the way forward.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

So the government closed the economy on a whim and that whiteboard photo with NHS COLLAPSE written all over it was just idle speculation?

Why do you think they did it? What evidence do you have that they didn't? Please let the readers know why every single model, expert and warning was just fantasy.

Lytham

Although you have been supportive of the Government regarding lockdown, it is also the same Government that you tell us is destroying the NHS.

No problem with you holding different views about the same organisation as it is only natural that anything/anybody has strength and weaknesses but surely Tommy is allowed to hold and express opinions that may differ from others/the majority.

Personally, I think the Government should have removed all restrictions before now but others would be happy to see us to remain in lockdown and some - not yourself - would be happy to stay at home for the rest of their lives getting paid in full or close to it for doing feck all.

Nobody is wrong or right, I just think you were a bit harsh on Tommy.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

Lytham

Although you have been supportive of the Government regarding lockdown, it is also the same Government that you tell us is destroying the NHS.

No problem with you holding different views about the same organisation as it is only natural that anything/anybody has strength and weaknesses but surely Tommy is allowed to hold and express opinions that may differ from others/the majority.

Personally, I think the Government should have removed all restrictions before now but others would be happy to see us to remain in lockdown and some - not yourself - would be happy to stay at home for the rest of their lives getting paid in full or close to it for doing feck all.

Nobody is wrong or right, I just think you were a bit harsh on Tommy.

Of course he's allowed, this is a debate, why would you think differently.

As for supporting the lockdown/criticising the government for it's performance on the NHS, it's the same argument. Had the service been funded for capacity we might have avoided lockdown, as it was unfortunately it was the only decision.

As for the last point, I think it's right that they have eased this lockdown slowly because the data had to back it up, we were in this situation last September and it went wrong. I also think that there can't be any return to lockdown after this one, I don't think the country can take it any more and the correct result of a risk assessment would be to punt on the vaccine against economic meltdown. Which brings me back tomy original point on this thread, the vaccine can save more than lives, get it.

 

[Magic147]

All of the high risk groups have now been vaccinated.

Lift all restrictions I say.

If you're still worried, by all means stay at home, mask up, avoid your fellow human beings at all costs, but let the rest of us get on with our lives FFS.

 

[coppiceman]

Lytham

Although you have been supportive of the Government regarding lockdown, it is also the same Government that you tell us is destroying the NHS.

No problem with you holding different views about the same organisation as it is only natural that anything/anybody has strength and weaknesses but surely Tommy is allowed to hold and express opinions that may differ from others/the majority.

Personally, I think the Government should have removed all restrictions before now but others would be happy to see us to remain in lockdown and some - not yourself - would be happy to stay at home for the rest of their lives getting paid in full or close to it for doing feck all.

Nobody is wrong or right, I just think you were a bit harsh on Tommy.

How did I know that you'd be along to defend this sociopathic point of view?

 

[seasideone]

All of the high risk groups have now been vaccinated.

Lift all restrictions I say.

If you're still worried, by all means stay at home, mask up, avoid your fellow human beings at all costs, but let the rest of us get on with our lives FFS.

How about keeping the anti vaxers at home and letting everyone else get on with it?

 

[Magic147]

How about keeping the anti vaxers at home and letting everyone else get on with it?

The rest of the population would still shit themselves every time someone coughed within 500 yards.

I've had my vaccine, by the way, I just think everyone should be allowed to make up their own minds without all this bollocks.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

I’m not trying to be clever here I’m asking the question because I don’t understand how the narrative has changed.

It’s gone from the vulnerable to being vaccinated to release freedoms to seemingly everyone now? Then on top of that, people who are fit and healthy and under the age of 40 with a well known recovery rate of 99.98% from this virus are now being ridiculed or being called selfish for not having a vaccine? They won’t end up in hospital anyway?

Am I missing something with the above genuinely? Help me out.

Good point.

The average of Covid fatalities in the UK is above the average life expectancy.

Despite this people refuse to accept that Covid does not seriously affect the young and healthy because there have been a very small number of fatalities in the young and healthy group.

It would appear that the same people who believe that Covid significantly effects the young and healthy are telling us that the vaccine is totally safe.

We have seen young - mid 40's - and previously healthy BBC radio presenter die after getting blood clots after taking the vaccine.

I'm not suggesting that the vaccine should be stopped because of the death of this young lady but I'd bet this healthy young lady would not have died if she had refused to take the vaccine and contracted Covid at a later date ?

 

[seasideone]

The rest of the population would still shit themselves every time someone coughed within 500 yards.

I've had my vaccine, by the way, I just think everyone should be allowed to make up their own minds without all this bollocks.

Nah - on second thoughts, execute anyone who refuses the vaccine or disses it

Then all the vaccinated people can get on with life.

 

[Magic147]

"Disses it"

OK old man.

 

[seasideone]

"Disses it"

OK old man.

Not sure if I am old or not - it’s all relative

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Of course he's allowed, this is a debate, why would you think differently.

As for supporting the lockdown/criticising the government for it's performance on the NHS, it's the same argument. Had the service been funded for capacity we might have avoided lockdown, as it was unfortunately it was the only decision.

As for the last point, I think it's right that they have eased this lockdown slowly because the data had to back it up, we were in this situation last September and it went wrong. I also think that there can't be any return to lockdown after this one, I don't think the country can take it any more and the correct result of a risk assessment would be to punt on the vaccine against economic meltdown. Which brings me back tomy original point on this thread, the vaccine can save more than lives, get it.

Lytham

We've discussed the lockdowns/NHS before and despite not agreeing you, I have no problem with you saying what say.

I am not agreeing/disagreeing with you or Tommy, I just thought that you were overly critical of Tommy for expressing a different opinion.

I don't want to go round in circles and appreciate that you are entitled to hold and express opinions on Tommy's opinions but I just thought your criticism was a tad OTT - maybe Tommy was OK with it so apologies for making myself busy.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

How did I know that you'd be along to defend this sociopathic point of view?

Coppice

I was not defending any point of view.

I was defending a posters right to express his opinion - a non abhorrent opinion - without facing OTT criticism/ridicule.

How did I know that you'd be along to criticise/ridicule me ?

 

[Wizaard]

Lytham

Although you have been supportive of the Government regarding lockdown, it is also the same Government that you tell us is destroying the NHS.

No problem with you holding different views about the same organisation as it is only natural that anything/anybody has strength and weaknesses but surely Tommy is allowed to hold and express opinions that may differ from others/the majority.

Personally, I think the Government should have removed all restrictions before now but others would be happy to see us to remain in lockdown and some - not yourself - would be happy to stay at home for the rest of their lives getting paid in full or close to it for doing feck all.

Nobody is wrong or right, I just think you were a bit harsh on Tommy.

Nobody is right or wrong.

That in itself is wrong. The vaccination programme is the sole reason there is talk about lifting restrictions from 21 June.

The reason there might be a delay is because anti vaxxers are spoiling it for the majority with their baseless nonsense.

It's not mandatory, but if you don't want the vaccine at least take the responsibility and don't bother seeking treatment if you fall ill. There's no way they'll do that.

Selfish QED.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

Lytham

We've discussed the lockdowns/NHS before and despite not agreeing you, I have no problem with you saying what say.

I am not agreeing/disagreeing with you or Tommy, I just thought that you were overly critical of Tommy for expressing a different opinion.

I don't want to go round in circles and appreciate that you are entitled to hold and express opinions on Tommy's opinions but I just thought your criticism was a tad OTT - maybe Tommy was OK with it so apologies for making myself busy.

It's a debate, quite difficult to be overly critical.

 

[coppiceman]

Coppice

I was not defending any point of view.

I was defending a posters right to express his opinion - a non abhorrent opinion - without facing OTT criticism/ridicule.

How did I know that you'd be along to criticise/ridicule me ?

I don't see how you can defend such an obviously selfish, "to hell with everyone else but me" attitude.

 

[Adams Kebab]

Good point.

The average of Covid fatalities in the UK is above the average life expectancy.

Despite this people refuse to accept that Covid does not seriously affect the young and healthy because there have been a very small number of fatalities in the young and healthy group.

It would appear that the same people who believe that Covid significantly effects the young and healthy are telling us that the vaccine is totally safe.

We have seen young - mid 40's - and previously healthy BBC radio presenter die after getting blood clots after taking the vaccine.

I'm not suggesting that the vaccine should be stopped because of the death of this young lady but I'd bet this healthy young lady would not have died if she had refused to take the vaccine and contracted Covid at a later date ?

Completely agree, people have lost sight of the fact that is poses minimal risk of even being hospitalised for most of the population!

Tragically a similar story today, a woman aged 43 in Plymouth, had the vaccine and died a week later due to blood clots. I have now seen more of these stories than those in the same age dying because of Covid not with it. Obviously these stories make the news as it sells and hopefully are minimal and few and far between, a bit like them being hospitalised or dying of Covid.

If you are in this age range surely it is your own personal choice to decide what to do and weigh up your own risk.

This does not make people “anti-vaxxers”... “selfish”... it just means they are evaluating their own risk for their own life and their families, because I bet the above’s now sadly wish they had never had it.

A short story as an example of how warped the thinking has gone on all this:-


John wants Jane locked away from human contact for a year+, so he feels safer.

John wants Jane to be masked & distanced indefinitely, so he feels safer.

John wants Jane to have a medical intervention, so he feels safer.

Jane wants nothing from John; but she's the selfish one?!

 

[SEASIDE2020]

I don't see how you can defend such an obviously selfish, "to hell with everyone else but me" attitude.

Coppice

I was defending Tommy's right to express a differing viewpoint.

It appears that you have a problem with people who hold and express views that differ from your own.

 

[seasideone]

Completely agree, people have lost sight of the fact that is poses minimal risk of even being hospitalised for most of the population!

Tragically a similar story today, a woman aged 43 in Plymouth, had the vaccine and died a week later due to blood clots. I have now seen more of these stories than those in the same age dying because of Covid not with it. Obviously these stories make the news as it sells and hopefully are minimal and few and far between, a bit like them being hospitalised or dying of Covid.

If you are in this age range surely it is your own personal choice to decide what to do and weigh up your own risk.

This does not make people “anti-vaxxers”... “selfish”... it just means they are evaluating their own risk for their own life and their families, because I bet the above’s now sadly wish they had never had it.

A short story as an example of how warped the thinking has gone on all this:-


John wants Jane locked away from human contact for a year+, so he feels safer.

John wants Jane to be masked & distanced indefinitely, so he feels safer.

John wants Jane to have a medical intervention, so he feels safer.

Jane wants nothing from John; but she's the selfish one?!

As I keep saying - just execute anyone who refuses the vaccine and then the rest of us can get on with it

So Adam’s would you choose….

1 Lethal injection (ironic at best)
2 Hang
3 Shot
4 Move into the Oyston cellar until you can take no more and then choose 1,2 or 3.

Just asking for a friend

 

[Adams Kebab]

Nobody is right or wrong.

That in itself is wrong. The vaccination programme is the sole reason there is talk about lifting restrictions from 21 June.

The reason there might be a delay is because anti vaxxers are spoiling it for the majority with their baseless nonsense.

It's not mandatory, but if you don't want the vaccine at least take the responsibility and don't bother seeking treatment if you fall ill. There's no way they'll do that.

Selfish QED.

Wiz, I agree with the lifting of restrictions is due to the vaccine, no doubt about it, it’s been brilliant. However & this is the key that I think people are forgetting, the vulnerable were the ones who NEED the vaccine to protect them as throughout this from the CMO and more, the majority of the population will not fall ill or even catch the virus.

The vaccine rollout was never about giving it to everyone, it was all about the vulnerable, cry Freedom we were told, but it’s now changed and people are also buying into everyone having to have it now? It doesn’t make sense & please don’t talk about super duper mutant variants.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

It's a debate, quite difficult to be overly critical.

That's fair enough Lytham.

I was probably overly critical of you !!!!!!!!

Apologies.

 

[BWseasider]

People should get the vaccine, however it’s their choice if they choose not to. They must also respect other people’s choice to not let them in their establishment or country if they’re not vaccinated as they’re potentially putting their business or country at risk.

 

[Adams Kebab]

As I keep saying - just execute anyone who refuses the vaccine and then the rest of us can get on with it

So Adam’s would you choose….

1 Lethal injection (ironic at best)
2 Hang
3 Shot
4 Move into the Oyston cellar until you can take no more and then choose 1,2 or 3.

Just asking for a friend

You see this is brilliant and sums up the hypocritical viewpoint we now have because just imagine what your view would’ve been if ROT or Me or others had world have said that the vulnerable who we’ve been protecting should be executed or isolate in the past 15 months so the rest of us can just crack on.

But now it’s fine. It’s borderline cult.

 

[seasideone]

You see this is brilliant and sums up the hypocritical viewpoint we now have because just imagine what your view would’ve been if ROT or Me or others had world have said that the vulnerable who we’ve been protecting should be executed or isolate in the past 15 months so the rest of us can just crack on.

But now it’s fine. It’s borderline cult.

You need to pick a number of 1 - 4 inclusive.

DM if it’s a 4 and you don’t want to go public

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Nobody is right or wrong.

That in itself is wrong. The vaccination programme is the sole reason there is talk about lifting restrictions from 21 June.

The reason there might be a delay is because anti vaxxers are spoiling it for the majority with their baseless nonsense.

It's not mandatory, but if you don't want the vaccine at least take the responsibility and don't bother seeking treatment if you fall ill. There's no way they'll do that.

Selfish QED.

Wiz

You have expressed a few opinions there and I have no problem with that whether or not I agree with them.

It would appear that you believe that those who refuse to be vaccinated should not be entitled to treatment should they contact the virus at a later date and fall ill.

Some will agree with what you say and plenty will disagree.

There is certainly no right or wrong.